It Just Might Be that Pitching is simply superior

[swatski]

There is another effect. Hitters starting very young are taught that power is where it’s at so they have not developed bat to ball skills. Every team has a bunch of power hitting K specialists. Terribly boring baseball ensues

[ICCFIM2]

If they did ABS for every single pitch, the hitters would benefit tremendously.
The majority of bad calls go in favor or the pitchers. Hitters have it tough and when a bad call is made against a hitter, they can't predict the strike zone as well.
I've always felt a perfectly consistent zone would allow the hitters to be more selective and pitchers to be more inclined to challenge the strike zone.

I tend to agree with this. The proposed ABS challenge system of 2 per game beginning next year is way too few challenges. 10 per game would be a better number. I fully understand if you are correct, the challenge is retained. There are so many bad calls that 10 is a much better figure. I think it will help averages by about .05. So a 245 hitter will get to 250.

[Wattage]

There is a point where the game will be diminished and irrelevant if consistent offense is allowed to continually decline

Agreed, however, how do you fix it? I get the impression it’s a problem down to the youngest, lowest levels.

They’re only teaching slug and long ball. Think of all the lower skilled in 2025 as Rob Deers….higher skilled Dave Kingmans….and the few elites as Bonds….Pujols
That’s MLB in 2025
How many guys do you see choke up on the bat? Slap hit to opposite field? It’s the approach and style of hitting not so much the pitching

well its easier to control and slap a 88 mph straight fastball than a 100 mph bomb thats sinking. or a barely dipping 80 mph alider than a 90 moh slider thats got crazy break.

appraoch has changed for a reason. its not as easy to just control the ball as with easier pitchers

[Cardinals4Life]

It was a lot easier to hit when you faced the starter 3 or 4 times in a game instead of 1 or 2 then a parade of high octane throwing relievers with high spin rate stuff come in. Also it used to be a starter wouldn’t throw max out every pitch they would pitch lower then dial it up when they really need to because they knew they had to go deep into games now they go max effort knowing they are only going 5 or 6
Innings.

Agree with this, but also coupled with the fact that hitters' approaches are radically different too. Gone are the days with 2 strike approaches. Every swing is a "do damage" swing, regardless of the count/situation.

I have friends who say that hitters like Tony Gwynn (just an example) couldn't hit in today's game. I think that's nonsense. Gwynn would rake against today's relievers who simply throw, rather than pitch.

So yes, I agree that pitchers' "stuff" is better today, but I also think the game has gone more to just guys with raw "stuff" (guys who throw 100 and guys who swing hard for exit velo/power, but lack the ability to pitch or hit with any kind of approach.)

JMO

[Braund241]

Seriously, look at MLB averages anymore. Very few hit .300, which used to be a marker. Sure, there are a lot of HRs but the swing and miss rate is increased. You read players quotes about how good the pitching is, and I am starting to believe them. Maybe the new goal is .250 for average. If this is true, how does this affect your view of the Cardinal hitters?

Opti

They don’t win, which is what sports is about. Weird question.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Well you guys explain this phenomena.

Hitters keep getting worse. Ave now down to .245 yet, pitchers ERA are 4 plus.

What gives.

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

Pitch clock and banning the shift has been good for the game

Absolutely!

[sikeston bulldog2]

Well you guys explain this phenomena.

Hitters keep getting worse. Ave now down to .245 yet, pitchers ERA are 4 plus.

What gives.

I’ll ask the board d again. ERA is soaring, and batting averages are nose diving. Don’t add up. Seems in this stat, if one goes one way, the other goes the opposite. Not happening.

Why?

[12xu]

Seriously, look at MLB averages anymore. Very few hit .300, which used to be a marker. Sure, there are a lot of HRs but the swing and miss rate is increased. You read players quotes about how good the pitching is, and I am starting to believe them. Maybe the new goal is .250 for average. If this is true, how does this affect your view of the Cardinal hitters?

Opti

Just some random numbers.

Year 2000 - BA - .270 -- HR - 5693 - OPS - .782 - K's - 31,356--- Hits -45,246
Year 2012 - BA - .255 -- HR - 4934 - OPS - .724 -K's - 46,426--- Hits -42,063
Year 2025 - BA - .245 -- HR - 5650 - OPS - .719 - K's - 40,365--- Hits -40,140

2000 you had Roids and elite black athletes still in the game
2025 no roids no elite black athletes

There are still PED's in MLB today.

[RamFan08NY]

No doubt about it. Pitchers today just have too much in their arsenal. The breaking pitches in the high 90s are something hitters didn't see 25 + years ago. Just watch games from back then. Pitchers did work the corners, but they were hittable pitches. Today's pitches break, or drop 15 inches at 95 mph.
While its true that this kind of movement results in most Pitchers eventually requiring TJ surgery, it doesn't help the hitters. This even makes it tougher on the umps. If pitches are fooling hitters at that speed, its also fooling umps.

I dont know what the fix is, but its not because hitters cant hit.

[12xu]

Well you guys explain this phenomena.

Hitters keep getting worse. Ave now down to .245 yet, pitchers ERA are 4 plus.

What gives.

I’ll ask the board d again. ERA is soaring, and batting averages are nose diving. Don’t add up. Seems in this stat, if one goes one way, the other goes the opposite. Not happening.

Why?

The average pitcher in MLB has more velocity plus more break on sliders and sweepers than ever before - but, only the elite have excellent command and control of these pitches. SO, when the lesser pitchers fall behind in the count and have to throw one down the middle, they give up the long balls. Only the elite are smart enough to know how to pitch to different hitters, even if they do not possess the high velocity.

Most batters in MLB today are obsessed with bat speed and power. They do not adjust this approach when they are in 0-2, 1-2 counts - so they strikeout at alarming rates, and their BA is typically lower than .250. There are few batters today who strive to hit the ball to all fields, and who choke up and just to try and make contact with 2 strikes.

The combination of these factors has led to the avg. strikeout rate in MLB has risen to over 8 per game in the last ten years, which back in the 70's and 80's it was around 5.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Well you guys explain this phenomena.

Hitters keep getting worse. Ave now down to .245 yet, pitchers ERA are 4 plus.

What gives.

I’ll ask the board d again. ERA is soaring, and batting averages are nose diving. Don’t add up. Seems in this stat, if one goes one way, the other goes the opposite. Not happening.

Why?

The average pitcher in MLB has more velocity plus more break on sliders and sweepers than ever before - but, only the elite have excellent command and control of these pitches. SO, when the lesser pitchers fall behind in the count and have to throw one down the middle, they give up the long balls. Only the elite are smart enough to know how to pitch to different hitters, even if they do not possess the high velocity.

Most batters in MLB today are obsessed with bat speed and power. They do not adjust this approach when they are in 0-2, 1-2 counts - so they strikeout at alarming rates, and their BA is typically lower than .250. There are few batters today who strive to hit the ball to all fields, and who choke up and just to try and make contact with 2 strikes.

The combination of these factors has led to the avg. strikeout rate in MLB has risen to over 8 per game in the last ten years, which back in the 70's and 80's it was around 5.

I get that. But if pitchers are so dominant, why does most have such high ERA. Too many walks?

And if there earned run average is high it would speak to higher averages. But it isn’t happening that way. Both are dropping.

[Goldfan]

No doubt about it. Pitchers today just have too much in their arsenal. The breaking pitches in the high 90s are something hitters didn't see 25 + years ago. Just watch games from back then. Pitchers did work the corners, but they were hittable pitches. Today's pitches break, or drop 15 inches at 95 mph.
While its true that this kind of movement results in most Pitchers eventually requiring TJ surgery, it doesn't help the hitters. This even makes it tougher on the umps. If pitches are fooling hitters at that speed, its also fooling umps.

I dont know what the fix is, but its not because hitters cant hit.

I’m thinking Greg Maddux and Pedro Martinez would disagree with you…..

[Goldfan]

Well you guys explain this phenomena.

Hitters keep getting worse. Ave now down to .245 yet, pitchers ERA are 4 plus.

What gives.

I’ll ask the board d again. ERA is soaring, and batting averages are nose diving. Don’t add up. Seems in this stat, if one goes one way, the other goes the opposite. Not happening.

Why?

The average pitcher in MLB has more velocity plus more break on sliders and sweepers than ever before - but, only the elite have excellent command and control of these pitches. SO, when the lesser pitchers fall behind in the count and have to throw one down the middle, they give up the long balls. Only the elite are smart enough to know how to pitch to different hitters, even if they do not possess the high velocity.

Most batters in MLB today are obsessed with bat speed and power. They do not adjust this approach when they are in 0-2, 1-2 counts - so they strikeout at alarming rates, and their BA is typically lower than .250. There are few batters today who strive to hit the ball to all fields, and who choke up and just to try and make contact with 2 strikes.

The combination of these factors has led to the avg. strikeout rate in MLB has risen to over 8 per game in the last ten years, which back in the 70's and 80's it was around 5.

I get that. But if pitchers are so dominant, why does most have such high ERA. Too many walks?

And if there earned run average is high it would speak to higher averages. But it isn’t happening that way. Both are dropping.

I guess it speaks again to how horrible MO was…..ALL Pitchers today throw 99 with Amazing spin……but the Cards can’t find one SP who does that

[sikeston bulldog2]

Well you guys explain this phenomena.

Hitters keep getting worse. Ave now down to .245 yet, pitchers ERA are 4 plus.

What gives.

I’ll ask the board d again. ERA is soaring, and batting averages are nose diving. Don’t add up. Seems in this stat, if one goes one way, the other goes the opposite. Not happening.

Why?

The average pitcher in MLB has more velocity plus more break on sliders and sweepers than ever before - but, only the elite have excellent command and control of these pitches. SO, when the lesser pitchers fall behind in the count and have to throw one down the middle, they give up the long balls. Only the elite are smart enough to know how to pitch to different hitters, even if they do not possess the high velocity.

Most batters in MLB today are obsessed with bat speed and power. They do not adjust this approach when they are in 0-2, 1-2 counts - so they strikeout at alarming rates, and their BA is typically lower than .250. There are few batters today who strive to hit the ball to all fields, and who choke up and just to try and make contact with 2 strikes.

The combination of these factors has led to the avg. strikeout rate in MLB has risen to over 8 per game in the last ten years, which back in the 70's and 80's it was around 5.

I get that. But if pitchers are so dominant, why does most have such high ERA. Too many walks?

And if there earned run average is high it would speak to higher averages. But it isn’t happening that way. Both are dropping.

I guess it speaks again to how horrible MO was…..ALL Pitchers today throw 99 with Amazing spin……but the Cards can’t find one SP who does that

Add that to my point. All that amazement and high ERA. Where are the high averages that forced the high ERA.

Can’t be both.