Melville wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 13:17 pm
Mootbaar is a bad outfielder at 3 spots.
Burleson is a sold 1B and a poor outfielder at 2 spots.
Burleson is factually more versatile.
Burleson is one of the worst outfielders in all of baseball over the last two years - 9th worst in OAA, and 25th worst in DRS. Worst in UZR before it was shut done.
Walker is right there with him (along with Lane Thomas, O’Neill, Carlson, Arozarena, and Garcia among former Cardinals)
We should adjust our outfield expectations on Burleson.
Nootbaar is firmly in the average to above average category for his career defensively at all three positions, however he did trend slightly on the below-average side of the line this year and has a small sample size for CF and doesn’t look comfortable there.
"Nootbaar is a bad outfielder at 3 spots" is not a "fact," it is merely Melville's usual agenda-driven, bad-faith hackery.
Position/IP/DRS/UZR/OAA/FRV
LF: 1,362.2/0/0.1/1/-3
CF: 852.0/-2/0.9/1/0
RF: 1,709.0/12/10.2/5/9
Total OF: 3,887.2/10/11.2/7/7
Nootbaar has played a solid RF, and has been pretty close to average in LF and CF. Even though he's clearly out of position in CF, it's noteworthy that he's managed to hold his own and not embarrass himself there in 852 innings.
Glad Nootbaar doesn’t embarrass himself in the outfield.
He does enough embarrassing himself on the basepaths while being a punchless choker at the plate.
82birds wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 11:09 am
by not mentioning Walker, is Woo implying he is staying?
Unfortunately, it seems the only choice they have now, is to either trade him for an equally underperforming prospect or keep him and hope a miracle happens. He just doesn't have any trade value right now.
It's yet another complete blunder by the team. If they saw a lack of swing and dedication several years ago when they tried to adjust his swing, they should've dealt him then when he actually had value.
This what I've been saying for a few months needs to happen. Most to least likely imo: Gorman, Noot, Burly, Donovan.
I'd prefer it to be Gorman and Burly but I bet the team can't quit Burly in the most Brokeback Mountain way possible, so it'll be Gorman and Noot. I'll only be disappointed if Donovan gets dealt.
STL has too many LH bats.
Tonight, I will provide the correct plan to address that.
82birds wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 11:09 am
by not mentioning Walker, is Woo implying he is staying?
Unfortunately, it seems the only choice they have now, is to either trade him for an equally underperforming prospect or keep him and hope a miracle happens. He just doesn't have any trade value right now.
It's yet another complete blunder by the team. If they saw a lack of swing and dedication several years ago when they tried to adjust his swing, they should've dealt him then when he actually had value.
If you cannot get anything for him, park him at AAA next year and leave him in the hopes of creating some value.
The guy obviously needs AB's, but not in StL.
To ask Bernie's question: does this guy even like playing baseball?
This what I've been saying for a few months needs to happen. Most to least likely imo: Gorman, Noot, Burly, Donovan.
I'd prefer it to be Gorman and Burly but I bet the team can't quit Burly in the most Brokeback Mountain way possible, so it'll be Gorman and Noot. I'll only be disappointed if Donovan gets dealt.
I'm ok if all 4 go. Just wanna see what comes back. There has to be a good pitching prospect that's close to ready.
If WC, Gray, and Arenado go, even better. Also weary of Walker, so him too.
If Donovan and Burleson are traded, next years team won’t even be worth watching. It’s doubtful they’ll even get players back as good as them, so they’ve just set team back even further!
Wetherholt won’t be any good either, because he’ll have no protection at all. If the Cardinals trade those two, they win 70 games next year.
This what I've been saying for a few months needs to happen. Most to least likely imo: Gorman, Noot, Burly, Donovan.
I'd prefer it to be Gorman and Burly but I bet the team can't quit Burly in the most Brokeback Mountain way possible, so it'll be Gorman and Noot. I'll only be disappointed if Donovan gets dealt.
STL has too many LH bats.
Tonight, I will provide the correct plan to address that.
Oh, boy!!! Christmas be coming early...
I appreciate the excitement.
Very gratifying.
Which is why I provide this act of service.
This what I've been saying for a few months needs to happen. Most to least likely imo: Gorman, Noot, Burly, Donovan.
I'd prefer it to be Gorman and Burly but I bet the team can't quit Burly in the most Brokeback Mountain way possible, so it'll be Gorman and Noot. I'll only be disappointed if Donovan gets dealt.
Two of those guys were among the top 10 hitters in the National League this year. Keep them. Trade the other two.
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 18:46 pm
If they are going to keep Donovan they need to sign him to an extension this off season if they come to an agreement then they need to trade him
Just cause they keep him for now doesn’t mean they need to sign him to an extension.
This what I've been saying for a few months needs to happen. Most to least likely imo: Gorman, Noot, Burly, Donovan.
I'd prefer it to be Gorman and Burly but I bet the team can't quit Burly in the most Brokeback Mountain way possible, so it'll be Gorman and Noot. I'll only be disappointed if Donovan gets dealt.
I just have a hard time understanding how much disdain is cast on Alec. 2025 he hits .290, 18 HR's, commits only 5 errors in 148 GP. Yeah he ain't no Ozzie Smith and most likely 1st base is going to be his best position but he is hardly bad at it. He is not an ideal 3 hole hitter that you want to have. He was forced to be one on a team of under achievers. He would certainly be a great 5 or 6 hitter though with a few stud power hitters at 2, 3, and 4. Donovan is the same. Definitely complimentary hitters that will force a pitcher to take deep breaths in a stacked lineup. Just certainly not players that deserve anywhere of the disdain they get from some on these forums.
This what I've been saying for a few months needs to happen. Most to least likely imo: Gorman, Noot, Burly, Donovan.
I'd prefer it to be Gorman and Burly but I bet the team can't quit Burly in the most Brokeback Mountain way possible, so it'll be Gorman and Noot. I'll only be disappointed if Donovan gets dealt.
Two of those guys were among the top 10 hitters in the National League this year. Keep them. Trade the other two.
Brum….we’re rebuilding by giving away all the talent…..see how that works Because every time we get prospects in return…..they all turn out to be stars
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 18:46 pm
If they are going to keep Donovan they need to sign him to an extension this off season if they come to an agreement then they need to trade him
Just cause they keep him for now doesn’t mean they need to sign him to an extension.
Is he a free agent at the end of the season if it is it would be as dumb as keeping helsley and Fedde his trade value will go down all the way up to the trade deadline. For once I would like the cards to sell high on someone instead of letting their trade value go down
This what I've been saying for a few months needs to happen. Most to least likely imo: Gorman, Noot, Burly, Donovan.
I'd prefer it to be Gorman and Burly but I bet the team can't quit Burly in the most Brokeback Mountain way possible, so it'll be Gorman and Noot. I'll only be disappointed if Donovan gets dealt.
Two of those guys were among the top 10 hitters in the National League this year. Keep them. Trade the other two.
This what I've been saying for a few months needs to happen. Most to least likely imo: Gorman, Noot, Burly, Donovan.
I'd prefer it to be Gorman and Burly but I bet the team can't quit Burly in the most Brokeback Mountain way possible, so it'll be Gorman and Noot. I'll only be disappointed if Donovan gets dealt.
I just have a hard time understanding how much disdain is cast on Alec. 2025 he hits .290, 18 HR's, commits only 5 errors in 148 GP. Yeah he ain't no Ozzie Smith and most likely 1st base is going to be his best position but he is hardly bad at it. He is not an ideal 3 hole hitter that you want to have. He was forced to be one on a team of under achievers. He would certainly be a great 5 or 6 hitter though with a few stud power hitters at 2, 3, and 4. Donovan is the same. Definitely complimentary hitters that will force a pitcher to take deep breaths in a stacked lineup. Just certainly not players that deserve anywhere of the disdain they get from some on these forums.
I can only speak for myself, but my disdain is a product of how much some fans overvalue him plus Oli deciding he was a favorite since last year, well before he earned it.
Your assessment is pretty accurate imo. He's a good-not-elite hitter (not enough power for that), and overall an average player due to his defensive shortcomings. I'm in favor of trading him because he can bring back more than Noot, and he's not a good enough hitter for me to want the team to just hand him DH or 1B.
