Ville Heinola - an example of rushing a prospect and potential waiver option

[Wattage]

I don't see a connection to him being "rushed"

A bunch of injuries and a retirement had him in the opening night roster..
Not management putting on a rush.

Why in the world would the precise circumstances matter? They should’ve gone out and gotten someone else and not rushed their 18 yr old skinny d-man! They did him a disservice.

“He wasn’t rushed because these circumstances forced them to rush him.” Huh?!

The circumstances don’t change the result - he was rushed and it almost certainly killed his longterm development.

how didnit kill his longterm development though? thats not what im not understanding. the only stupid thing i saw was next year having him called up to taxi squad where he sat on bench and never played a game. that was worse than him being rushed up year before because he wasnt playing in majors or minors.

after that he went back to minors the following year and seemed like he did develop and just had an injury at the end of oreseason that required surgery. that injury had absolutely nothing to do with him being rushed up a coupke years before. and the fact that the surgery got an infection and required another surgery sidelining him for 2 years still has nothijg to do with him playing an nhl game at 18 a few years earlier.

[Lets_Clinch]

I lost interest when I read "undersized".

That's what she said.

LMFAO

[STL fan in MN]

I saw this article on Ville Heinola in the Athletic today. I don’t typically share Jets articles but it was an interesting piece.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/665547 ... d_article

At Jets camp, a prospect left behind tries to prove he belongs in the NHL

When Ville Heinola was drafted in the first round in 2019, he had no way of knowing how quickly the Winnipeg Jets’ defence corps would be torn apart. He was an undersized, offensively gifted 18-year-old with limited English, raised on skid steers and frigid Finnish winters. It seemed clear that he needed to get better at defending against big, strong, veteran pro players before he could make an NHL club.

Then, a series of free-agency departures, Dustin Byfuglien’s sudden retirement and a slew of injuries put Heinola in the Jets’ opening-night lineup. Three and a half months after getting drafted, he was an NHL player. In his fourth career game, he one-timed a Mark Scheifele centering feed past the Pittsburgh Penguins’ Matt Murray for his first NHL goal.

“I was dreaming of that,” he said that night.

Six years later, Heinola’s dream come true in Pittsburgh is still the peak of his pro career. He was the first 2001-born player to score an NHL goal but still hasn’t scored his second one — or even played a full season in the league.

When COVID-19 hit, Winnipeg placed Heinola on its NHL “taxi squad” for much of 2020-21; it seemed like a great development opportunity, but over a month passed without him playing a game. The Jets acquired high-end veterans the year after that, relegating Heinola to a starring role in the minors.

Two seasons ago, it looked like Heinola had finally won another NHL job at training camp, but he broke his ankle in his final preseason game. This led to surgery, the installation of a screw in Heinola’s ankle, and a months-long rehabilitation process that limited him for the rest of the season. Last season, Heinola’s surgically repaired ankle became infected, necessitating a second surgery — and a second rehabilitation process along with it.

“I’m not going to lie,” Heinola says now. “I was in a dark place for a couple of months.”

Heinola is 24 years old now. Six years in North America have improved his English. He can articulate the pain he’s been through and the hope he feels now that his ankle has healed for the second time.

“Last year, it hit me hard when the injury happened. It was more tough for me mentally, going through it again and just knowing the rehab and knowing how long it takes,” he says. “Everything went well. The ankle feels great. It’s such a relief, and I just want to enjoy hockey now.”

But Heinola’s sliding-doors moment is now ancient history. Instead of the seas parting for him, with multiple departures and injuries creating a route straight to the NHL, Heinola is the forgotten defenceman at Jets camp. There are eight veterans ahead of him on Winnipeg’s depth chart — plus 21-year-old Elias Salomonsson replacing him as the Jets’ top defensive prospect — with a maximum of eight jobs available to win.

The article goes on from there but I won’t post the whole thing.

A couple thoughts. First is that this is a prime example of a prospect rushed to the NHL. Clearly he had skill but thrust into the NHL at age 18? He should’ve been in Jrs or back in Finland bouncing between their Jr and pro leagues for another year or two. This seemed to really stunt his development. It’s why I’d be hesitant to thrust someone like Carbonneau into the lineup yet this season. A winger has much less responsibility than a d-man but still, the NHL is the best league in the world and it’s why Army says that teams fail prospects more often than prospects fail teams. They’re rushed and/or not given the right development opportunities. I trust the Blues will do the right thing but just found this article to be a prime example of what can happen when you rush a player.

Another example IMO would be Zach Benson. I think he’s going to be a good NHLer for a long time but I think the Sabres very well could’ve stunted his offensive development by thrusting him into the NHL at age 18. The probably is you can never play out both scenarios to ever prove that right or wrong.

Secondly, Heinola seems like he’s very much on the outside looking in to make the Jets out of camp. I don’t know a ton about him but I could certainly see a scenario where he’s a better option than Kessel. He’d offer a different look than Tucker too if we’re playing an opponent where Tucker’s slow feet could be more likely to be exploited.

Just food for thought but it’s an interesting look into the world of hockey and the butterfly effects that sometimes make or break a young player’s career.

Whether it’s the Jets, Blues or some other team, hopefully Heinola can get a quality shot with a team this season and hopefully get his foot in the door and make it in this league.

what does rushing him to the majors at 18 have to do with the fact that he broke his ankle in a final oreseason game and them after his surgery it got infected effectively sidelining him for 2 years. seems like ge would have been fine and in nhl again if that hadnt happened and that had absolutely nothing to do with him being rusbed in at 18.

i will say bringing him up to sit on covid taxi squad and never play wasnt the best use of him. that honestly was worse than rushing him to majors. he needed games. not to just sit. but anyways the ankle thing was just bad luck. not cuz he was rushed

Idk. Why are you wording the bolded as if that’s what I’m arguing?

Obviously the ankle injury did him no favors as well but rushing him and then as you said, the taxi squad thing, did him absolutely no favors and killed his development.

[Lets_Clinch]

STL fan's whole point is that it doesn't really matter why he was "rushed" to the NHL-he was rushed. I am pretty sure he also stated that the Covid year not playing didn't help. I too don't really get the points except to be contradictory. He pretty much agreed with both of you and you tried to drum up an argument anyway. It's not a political forum-at least that's what we have been warned about.

[clemonsonroots]

To keep him on the roster, even for only 9 games, it’d require the Blues to expose quality players to waivers that they’d almost assuredly want to keep for once Carbo was sent back to Jrs.

100%

Please let someone take Texier money and free more up for a trade later in the season.

[SRV1990]

I just wish someone had told Army about this.

If he had known this, he would surely have not initiated a re-whatever using mid-round picks.

Who would solve an immediate 2024 season problem by bringing in young prospects in 2026?

What does this mean? And how does a player in Heinola, who isn't in the Blues organization, apply to the Blues?

Has there ever been a re-whatever that started and closed before a single re-whatever draftee made it to the NHL ice?

Army is definitely not rushing the re-whatever prospects. However, he surely rushed closing the re-whatever.

"Re-whatever" is a bull[shirt] word you made up. It doesn't mean anything. And using it multiple times in a comment renders said comment meaningless.

Back to my question: What does your drivel about Heinola, who isn't in the Blues organization, have to do with the Blues?

[seattleblue]

Army actually used "re-whatever" - it may have begun before he used it but then he used it

[SRV1990]

Army actually used "re-whatever" - it may have begun before he used it but then he used it

Still a made up word that only the simplest of minds will hang on to in an effort to prove something. In reality, critical thinkers understand it was said to address all those insisting on labeling what the Blues did. Was it a re-tool, a re-build? Whatever, doesn't matter because we won't spend years at the bottom of the league in hopes that some kids progress to the point of us being relevant and cup contenders.

[seattleblue]

Army actually used "re-whatever" - it may have begun before he used it but then he used it

Still a made up word that only the simplest of minds will hang on to in an effort to prove something. In reality, critical thinkers understand it was said to address all those insisting on labeling what the Blues did. Was it a re-tool, a re-build? Whatever, doesn't matter because we won't spend years at the bottom of the league in hopes that some kids progress to the point of us being relevant and cup contenders.

all words are made up. I don't think you're incorrect about the agenda here.

"whatever" connotes that whichever word is picked after "re," there has been some type of re going on. it's a signal that we can broadly agree there is some type of "re" without having to agree it's a "rebuild" (deeper work) vs a "retool" (more minor fiddling) etc. It's a word that connotes general agreement in spite of specific disagreement

[SRV1990]

Army actually used "re-whatever" - it may have begun before he used it but then he used it

Still a made up word that only the simplest of minds will hang on to in an effort to prove something. In reality, critical thinkers understand it was said to address all those insisting on labeling what the Blues did. Was it a re-tool, a re-build? Whatever, doesn't matter because we won't spend years at the bottom of the league in hopes that some kids progress to the point of us being relevant and cup contenders.

all words are made up. I don't think you're incorrect about the agenda here.

"whatever" connotes that whichever word is picked after "re," there has been some type of re going on. it's a signal that we can broadly agree there is some type of "re" without having to agree it's a "rebuild" (deeper work) vs a "retool" (more minor fiddling) etc. It's a word that connotes general agreement in spite of specific disagreement

And again, those who lack critical thinking skills latch onto a made up word, when the rest of us are thankful we're not a bottom of the league team who has turned the corner after missing the playoffs for just two years and have a healthy prospect pool of players.

[Cahokanut]

Army actually used "re-whatever" - it may have begun before he used it but then he used it

Still a made up word that only the simplest of minds will hang on to in an effort to prove something. In reality, critical thinkers understand it was said to address all those insisting on labeling what the Blues did. Was it a re-tool, a re-build? Whatever, doesn't matter because we won't spend years at the bottom of the league in hopes that some kids progress to the point of us being relevant and cup contenders.

It didn't matter what it was called because it was just bull[shirt] to keep some of the easy thinking fans, holding on to his leg.

The Re-nothing was the exact same thing it was every single year. Move out fan favorites, include some disrespect to those that bleed the blue. Bring in a couple vets to play big minutes. And claim to be winners while losing. Which is why went from top three in the league(his first five years) to top hope for a bubble party in the league(the last ten years).

That top three team in the league was built through a "tank"
Those assets was what made it possible for army to trade away so many first and second rd picks for the vets that was to make us champs.
It was again those assets along with a 3 more first rd picks and 7.5 million dollars that gave us the best guy ever. Everything that have Army such a high win total, came from a tank.

But Army the genius, convinces his loudest fans that being on the bubble is how winners are built. And they Cheer.

[STL fan in MN]

Army actually used "re-whatever" - it may have begun before he used it but then he used it

Still a made up word that only the simplest of minds will hang on to in an effort to prove something. In reality, critical thinkers understand it was said to address all those insisting on labeling what the Blues did. Was it a re-tool, a re-build? Whatever, doesn't matter because we won't spend years at the bottom of the league in hopes that some kids progress to the point of us being relevant and cup contenders.

It didn't matter what it was called because it was just bull[shirt] to keep some of the easy thinking fans, holding on to his leg.

The Re-nothing was the exact same thing it was every single year. Move out fan favorites, include some disrespect to those that bleed the blue. Bring in a couple vets to play big minutes. And claim to be winners while losing. Which is why went from top three in the league(his first five years) to top hope for a bubble party in the league(the last ten years).

That top three team in the league was built through a "tank"
Those assets was what made it possible for army to trade away so many first and second rd picks for the vets that was to make us champs.
It was again those assets along with a 3 more first rd picks and 7.5 million dollars that gave us the best guy ever. Everything that have Army such a high win total, came from a tank.

But Army the genius, convinces his loudest fans that being on the bubble is how winners are built. And they Cheer.

What fan favorites did we move out and disrespect this summer. Leddy? Faksa??

And what tank are you referring to? 2008 when we got Petro? The Blues finished with 79 pts that season. That’s not a good season but it’s rare that many pts is the 4th fewest in a given year. The Sharks had 52 pts last season. The Hawks had 61. THAT is tanking. There just happened to be a lot more parity in 2007-08 and the Blues being subpar allowed them to get Petro.

If you’re referring to the full out tank in 2005-06 that got us EJ, 1. it didn’t really work because EJ massively disappointed and 2. it’s been shown time and again it was a stupid move bc management at the time thought the team would sell better if they got rid of the high priced salaries like Pronger (they somehow saw Pronger and other good players as liabilities instead of assets). It almost bankrupted the team and that folly and mismanagement of a tank is probably why the Blues, at least under Stillman’s ownership, will never ever ever do something like that again.

[SRV1990]

Army actually used "re-whatever" - it may have begun before he used it but then he used it

Still a made up word that only the simplest of minds will hang on to in an effort to prove something. In reality, critical thinkers understand it was said to address all those insisting on labeling what the Blues did. Was it a re-tool, a re-build? Whatever, doesn't matter because we won't spend years at the bottom of the league in hopes that some kids progress to the point of us being relevant and cup contenders.

It didn't matter what it was called because it was just bull[shirt] to keep some of the easy thinking fans, holding on to his leg.

The Re-nothing was the exact same thing it was every single year. Move out fan favorites, include some disrespect to those that bleed the blue. Bring in a couple vets to play big minutes. And claim to be winners while losing. Which is why went from top three in the league(his first five years) to top hope for a bubble party in the league(the last ten years).

That top three team in the league was built through a "tank"
Those assets was what made it possible for army to trade away so many first and second rd picks for the vets that was to make us champs.
It was again those assets along with a 3 more first rd picks and 7.5 million dollars that gave us the best guy ever. Everything that have Army such a high win total, came from a tank.

But Army the genius, convinces his loudest fans that being on the bubble is how winners are built. And they Cheer.

So why are you here? It's pretty clear you are a miserable fan who gets zero enjoyment from Blues hockey. Since you hate everything about the Blues, I'm sure you'd be much happier following/cheering on the Ducks, Sharks, Preds or Blackhawks. Those teams must have better GMs and are clearly doing things "the right way". Don't be a hypocrite, move on and cheer for one or more of those other teams.

[Cahokanut]

Army actually used "re-whatever" - it may have begun before he used it but then he used it

Still a made up word that only the simplest of minds will hang on to in an effort to prove something. In reality, critical thinkers understand it was said to address all those insisting on labeling what the Blues did. Was it a re-tool, a re-build? Whatever, doesn't matter because we won't spend years at the bottom of the league in hopes that some kids progress to the point of us being relevant and cup contenders.

It didn't matter what it was called because it was just bull[shirt] to keep some of the easy thinking fans, holding on to his leg.

The Re-nothing was the exact same thing it was every single year. Move out fan favorites, include some disrespect to those that bleed the blue. Bring in a couple vets to play big minutes. And claim to be winners while losing. Which is why went from top three in the league(his first five years) to top hope for a bubble party in the league(the last ten years).

That top three team in the league was built through a "tank"
Those assets was what made it possible for army to trade away so many first and second rd picks for the vets that was to make us champs.
It was again those assets along with a 3 more first rd picks and 7.5 million dollars that gave us the best guy ever. Everything that have Army such a high win total, came from a tank.

But Army the genius, convinces his loudest fans that being on the bubble is how winners are built. And they Cheer.

What fan favorites did we move out and disrespect this summer. Leddy? Faksa??

And what tank are you referring to? 2008 when we got Petro? The Blues finished with 79 pts that season. That’s not a good season but it’s rare that many pts is the 4th fewest in a given year. The Sharks had 52 pts last season. The Hawks had 61. THAT is tanking. There just happened to be a lot more parity in 2007-08 and the Blues being subpar allowed them to get Petro.

If you’re referring to the full out tank in 2005-06 that got us EJ, 1. it didn’t really work because EJ massively disappointed and 2. it’s been shown time and again it was a stupid move bc management at the time thought the team would sell better if they got rid of the high priced salaries like Pronger (they somehow saw Pronger and other good players as liabilities instead of assets). It almost bankrupted the team and that folly and mismanagement of a tank is probably why the Blues, at least under Stillman’s ownership, will never ever ever do something like that again.

From the beginning.

KELLY was the fan favorite. He was also another Army skirted.

Petro was part of that tank. So was EJ. Just becaise you saw no value in EJ or the players that trade brought back doesn't mean they wasn't part of the build or team that gave Army them early year wins.

I have the faintest reason Pronger was brought into this. But to set up a feild goal through those post.

[Cahokanut]

Army actually used "re-whatever" - it may have begun before he used it but then he used it

Still a made up word that only the simplest of minds will hang on to in an effort to prove something. In reality, critical thinkers understand it was said to address all those insisting on labeling what the Blues did. Was it a re-tool, a re-build? Whatever, doesn't matter because we won't spend years at the bottom of the league in hopes that some kids progress to the point of us being relevant and cup contenders.

It didn't matter what it was called because it was just bull[shirt] to keep some of the easy thinking fans, holding on to his leg.

The Re-nothing was the exact same thing it was every single year. Move out fan favorites, include some disrespect to those that bleed the blue. Bring in a couple vets to play big minutes. And claim to be winners while losing. Which is why went from top three in the league(his first five years) to top hope for a bubble party in the league(the last ten years).

That top three team in the league was built through a "tank"
Those assets was what made it possible for army to trade away so many first and second rd picks for the vets that was to make us champs.
It was again those assets along with a 3 more first rd picks and 7.5 million dollars that gave us the best guy ever. Everything that have Army such a high win total, came from a tank.

But Army the genius, convinces his loudest fans that being on the bubble is how winners are built. And they Cheer.

So why are you here? It's pretty clear you are a miserable fan who gets zero enjoyment from Blues hockey. Since you hate everything about the Blues, I'm sure you'd be much happier following/cheering on the Ducks, Sharks, Preds or Blackhawks. Those teams must have better GMs and are clearly doing things "the right way". Don't be a hypocrite, move on and cheer for one or more of those other teams.

So because I use facts to prove Army isn't the greatest. Somehow I don't like the Blues.

Because I think Army brings to many vets in I don't like the Blues.

Even if I hated half the team(I don't hate any of them) it still doesn't say a thing about whether or not I like the Blues.

But I understand. You are the bestest fan, only you can tell others how to be a fan. And the GM is the whole team.
(bleep) off. Cultman.

I'll add. It's the Off-season. There is no team until pictures.

[SRV1990]

Army actually used "re-whatever" - it may have begun before he used it but then he used it

Still a made up word that only the simplest of minds will hang on to in an effort to prove something. In reality, critical thinkers understand it was said to address all those insisting on labeling what the Blues did. Was it a re-tool, a re-build? Whatever, doesn't matter because we won't spend years at the bottom of the league in hopes that some kids progress to the point of us being relevant and cup contenders.

It didn't matter what it was called because it was just bull[shirt] to keep some of the easy thinking fans, holding on to his leg.

The Re-nothing was the exact same thing it was every single year. Move out fan favorites, include some disrespect to those that bleed the blue. Bring in a couple vets to play big minutes. And claim to be winners while losing. Which is why went from top three in the league(his first five years) to top hope for a bubble party in the league(the last ten years).

That top three team in the league was built through a "tank"
Those assets was what made it possible for army to trade away so many first and second rd picks for the vets that was to make us champs.
It was again those assets along with a 3 more first rd picks and 7.5 million dollars that gave us the best guy ever. Everything that have Army such a high win total, came from a tank.

But Army the genius, convinces his loudest fans that being on the bubble is how winners are built. And they Cheer.

So why are you here? It's pretty clear you are a miserable fan who gets zero enjoyment from Blues hockey. Since you hate everything about the Blues, I'm sure you'd be much happier following/cheering on the Ducks, Sharks, Preds or Blackhawks. Those teams must have better GMs and are clearly doing things "the right way". Don't be a hypocrite, move on and cheer for one or more of those other teams.

So because I use facts to prove Army isn't the greatest. Somehow I don't like the Blues.

Because I think Army brings to many vets in I don't like the Blues.

Even if I hated half the team(I don't hate any of them) it still doesn't say a thing about whether or not I like the Blues.

But I understand. You are the bestest fan, only you can tell others how to be a fan. And the GM is the whole team.
(bleep) off. Cultman.

Ah, so it is the imbecile Bomac. Welcome "back". And please don't consider your opinions as facts.

By the way, not the "bestest" fan. But I do have the ability to think critically, something you and your other socks can't do.

Like I said, don't be a hypocrite. You can easily start following one of the other teams I mentioned before since they are doing it the right way. You won't enjoy playoff hockey for a while, but at least the GM will be goodly and stuff.