What if we get addicted to rebuilding and never quit tanking?

[Carp4Cy]

I feel like there’s a very real danger this franchise never decides they have gotten to the point to go all in and invest in the present over the future

And even more, I suspect at least a number of posters would be OK with that. In that they value “prospects” more for their prospect status than for what they ever actually do as proven veterans.

Suppose we do trade Gray and Nado this winter for the proverbial bucket of balls and salary relief. What would we even reinvest the money in? Probably nothing, and again some would be fine with that because there will be no “good deals” in the ever inflating market of free agency.

As soon as that’s over, they will turn their attention to trading Donovan and Noot because, well, they’ve gotten to an age where they might not get any better. The focus is not on what they can or can’t contribute at a positive war level, but rather on their trajectory of future improvement. Then what’s next? Will they lose interest in Libby in another year or two when his arbitration salary hits 6 million and he approaches Free Agency? Should Winn be traded before he hits 27 and risks losing trade value? Is JoJo traded for a nobody prospect because he has “value” and might fetch even less than that nobody if we wait?

The problem here is it’s always about maximizing trade value relative to that single players future trade value and not relative to what they can actually produce for us. And there’s no serious consideration to whether we can get anything back that actually makes us better. Just an assumption that a shotgun approach to hording random prospects will somehow work out better than not having prospects.

At what point will those prospect addicts become willing to actually spend the cache of prospects to suddenly buy a proven producer of wins on the field at the MLB level? Even if that producer is gasp! 30 years old?

At what point do we say the future is now let’s go for it? To them there is no answer, they just say it isn’t *Now and next year they will sing the same song.

[imadangman]

Well you have a point. But there is a certain extent to which this team needs to go towards rebuilding that they have yet to do.

The key is many teams have pulled this off quicker than you think. What about the 2024 Padres. The consensus seemed they were rebuilding retooling whatever because they traded Soto but they ended up with more wins than the previous year and a playoff spot.

Or Peter Bendicks who took over for the Marlins. Last year there were stories about why people like him were the problem in baseball. This year, they are 47-37 (better than us) since the middle of June. I didn't follow the specifics but from a birds eye view I imagine that guy got in there and started ripping moves and actually improved his roster as the season went on. It seems like he is just continuously trying to improve, without worrying about certain goalposts like the trade deadline or the end of season or whatever.

Even the Astros have kept their thing going with losing Correa (back now), Bregman, and Tucker.

I can only hope Bloom is that savvy. The player development is important but you've got to pull the strings. In the Astros and Padres case, I'd think the field level management (...Shildt) plays a big roll.

[Ozziesfan41]

I feel like there’s a very real danger this franchise never decides they have gotten to the point to go all in and invest in the present over the future

And even more, I suspect at least a number of posters would be OK with that. In that they value “prospects” more for their prospect status than for what they ever actually do as proven veterans.

Suppose we do trade Gray and Nado this winter for the proverbial bucket of balls and salary relief. What would we even reinvest the money in? Probably nothing, and again some would be fine with that because there will be no “good deals” in the ever inflating market of free agency.

As soon as that’s over, they will turn their attention to trading Donovan and Noot because, well, they’ve gotten to an age where they might not get any better. The focus is not on what they can or can’t contribute at a positive war level, but rather on their trajectory of future improvement. Then what’s next? Will they lose interest in Libby in another year or two when his arbitration salary hits 6 million and he approaches Free Agency? Should Winn be traded before he hits 27 and risks losing trade value? Is JoJo traded for a nobody prospect because he has “value” and might fetch even less than that nobody if we wait?

The problem here is it’s always about maximizing trade value relative to that single players future trade value and not relative to what they can actually produce for us. And there’s no serious consideration to whether we can get anything back that actually makes us better. Just an assumption that a shotgun approach to hording random prospects will somehow work out better than not having prospects.

At what point will those prospect addicts become willing to actually spend the cache of prospects to suddenly buy a proven producer of wins on the field at the MLB level? Even if that producer is gasp! 30 years old?

At what point do we say the future is now let’s go for it? To them there is no answer, they just say it isn’t *Now and next year they will sing the same song.

Well the only way for the cardinals to get good again is to fix the mess of a system that mo left and develop players that are good. The cardinals don’t have the money to spend their way out of the mess mo left. People are delusional if they think they can spend a little money and get good again at best they would be around .500 again and miss the play offs again. I’m tired of the sustained mediocrity that some on here want to perpetuate by keeping mos awful approach going I want them to build a team that can be good. Is there a danger it won’t work? Yea but not as near of a certainty as keeping sustained mediocrity going will never win anything

[Carp4Cy]

I feel like there’s a very real danger this franchise never decides they have gotten to the point to go all in and invest in the present over the future

And even more, I suspect at least a number of posters would be OK with that. In that they value “prospects” more for their prospect status than for what they ever actually do as proven veterans.

Suppose we do trade Gray and Nado this winter for the proverbial bucket of balls and salary relief. What would we even reinvest the money in? Probably nothing, and again some would be fine with that because there will be no “good deals” in the ever inflating market of free agency.

As soon as that’s over, they will turn their attention to trading Donovan and Noot because, well, they’ve gotten to an age where they might not get any better. The focus is not on what they can or can’t contribute at a positive war level, but rather on their trajectory of future improvement. Then what’s next? Will they lose interest in Libby in another year or two when his arbitration salary hits 6 million and he approaches Free Agency? Should Winn be traded before he hits 27 and risks losing trade value? Is JoJo traded for a nobody prospect because he has “value” and might fetch even less than that nobody if we wait?

The problem here is it’s always about maximizing trade value relative to that single players future trade value and not relative to what they can actually produce for us. And there’s no serious consideration to whether we can get anything back that actually makes us better. Just an assumption that a shotgun approach to hording random prospects will somehow work out better than not having prospects.

At what point will those prospect addicts become willing to actually spend the cache of prospects to suddenly buy a proven producer of wins on the field at the MLB level? Even if that producer is gasp! 30 years old?

At what point do we say the future is now let’s go for it? To them there is no answer, they just say it isn’t *Now and next year they will sing the same song.

Well the only way for the cardinals to get good again is to fix the mess of a system that mo left and develop players that are good. The cardinals don’t have the money to spend their way out of the mess mo left. People are delusional if they think they can spend a little money and get good again at best they would be around .500 again and miss the play offs again. I’m tired of the sustained mediocrity that some on here want to perpetuate by keeping mos awful approach going I want them to build a team that can be good. Is there a danger it won’t work? Yea but not as near of a certainty as keeping sustained mediocrity going will never win anything

Meanwhile where are the metrics to tell if we are succeeding or failing in this mission? How many prospects should we be promoting each year and how many war should they be generating at the MLB level by what year to prove that our system is developing what it should be?

And finally what’s the ultimate point of developing and promoting of these prospects, if we eventually trade them before the next round of prospects we generate comes along, and we never reach critical mass?

Sounds like a AAAA farm team (PIT, COL) to me.

[Ozziesfan41]

I feel like there’s a very real danger this franchise never decides they have gotten to the point to go all in and invest in the present over the future

And even more, I suspect at least a number of posters would be OK with that. In that they value “prospects” more for their prospect status than for what they ever actually do as proven veterans.

Suppose we do trade Gray and Nado this winter for the proverbial bucket of balls and salary relief. What would we even reinvest the money in? Probably nothing, and again some would be fine with that because there will be no “good deals” in the ever inflating market of free agency.

As soon as that’s over, they will turn their attention to trading Donovan and Noot because, well, they’ve gotten to an age where they might not get any better. The focus is not on what they can or can’t contribute at a positive war level, but rather on their trajectory of future improvement. Then what’s next? Will they lose interest in Libby in another year or two when his arbitration salary hits 6 million and he approaches Free Agency? Should Winn be traded before he hits 27 and risks losing trade value? Is JoJo traded for a nobody prospect because he has “value” and might fetch even less than that nobody if we wait?

The problem here is it’s always about maximizing trade value relative to that single players future trade value and not relative to what they can actually produce for us. And there’s no serious consideration to whether we can get anything back that actually makes us better. Just an assumption that a shotgun approach to hording random prospects will somehow work out better than not having prospects.

At what point will those prospect addicts become willing to actually spend the cache of prospects to suddenly buy a proven producer of wins on the field at the MLB level? Even if that producer is gasp! 30 years old?

At what point do we say the future is now let’s go for it? To them there is no answer, they just say it isn’t *Now and next year they will sing the same song.

Well the only way for the cardinals to get good again is to fix the mess of a system that mo left and develop players that are good. The cardinals don’t have the money to spend their way out of the mess mo left. People are delusional if they think they can spend a little money and get good again at best they would be around .500 again and miss the play offs again. I’m tired of the sustained mediocrity that some on here want to perpetuate by keeping mos awful approach going I want them to build a team that can be good. Is there a danger it won’t work? Yea but not as near of a certainty as keeping sustained mediocrity going will never win anything

Meanwhile where are the metrics to tell if we are succeeding or failing in this mission? How many prospects should we be promoting each year and how many war should they be generating at the MLB level by what year to prove that our system is developing what it should be?

And finally what’s the ultimate point of developing and promoting of these prospects, if we eventually trade them before the next round of prospects we generate comes along, and we never reach critical mass?

Sounds like a AAAA farm team (PIT, COL) to me.

No they will spend once the team is close to competing. They have a plan in place for how they will handle the prospects and sign good prospects to extensions. If you think the cardinals are going to win anything by signing guys like Gibson and Lynn and they aren’t going to attract any good free agents because they can’t outbid the Yankees and dodgers and Mets and because they aren’t going to want to come to a team that has firmly established they are now a losing franchise. So complain all you want but it doesn’t change the fact they are now trying to fix mos mess and build a good winning team instead of sustaining mediocrity

[C-Unit]

I feel like there’s a very real danger this franchise never decides they have gotten to the point to go all in and invest in the present over the future

And even more, I suspect at least a number of posters would be OK with that. In that they value “prospects” more for their prospect status than for what they ever actually do as proven veterans.

Suppose we do trade Gray and Nado this winter for the proverbial bucket of balls and salary relief. What would we even reinvest the money in? Probably nothing, and again some would be fine with that because there will be no “good deals” in the ever inflating market of free agency.

As soon as that’s over, they will turn their attention to trading Donovan and Noot because, well, they’ve gotten to an age where they might not get any better. The focus is not on what they can or can’t contribute at a positive war level, but rather on their trajectory of future improvement. Then what’s next? Will they lose interest in Libby in another year or two when his arbitration salary hits 6 million and he approaches Free Agency? Should Winn be traded before he hits 27 and risks losing trade value? Is JoJo traded for a nobody prospect because he has “value” and might fetch even less than that nobody if we wait?

The problem here is it’s always about maximizing trade value relative to that single players future trade value and not relative to what they can actually produce for us. And there’s no serious consideration to whether we can get anything back that actually makes us better. Just an assumption that a shotgun approach to hording random prospects will somehow work out better than not having prospects.

At what point will those prospect addicts become willing to actually spend the cache of prospects to suddenly buy a proven producer of wins on the field at the MLB level? Even if that producer is gasp! 30 years old?

At what point do we say the future is now let’s go for it? To them there is no answer, they just say it isn’t *Now and next year they will sing the same song.

Well the only way for the cardinals to get good again is to fix the mess of a system that mo left and develop players that are good. The cardinals don’t have the money to spend their way out of the mess mo left. People are delusional if they think they can spend a little money and get good again at best they would be around .500 again and miss the play offs again. I’m tired of the sustained mediocrity that some on here want to perpetuate by keeping mos awful approach going I want them to build a team that can be good. Is there a danger it won’t work? Yea but not as near of a certainty as keeping sustained mediocrity going will never win anything

Meanwhile where are the metrics to tell if we are succeeding or failing in this mission? How many prospects should we be promoting each year and how many war should they be generating at the MLB level by what year to prove that our system is developing what it should be?

And finally what’s the ultimate point of developing and promoting of these prospects, if we eventually trade them before the next round of prospects we generate comes along, and we never reach critical mass?

Sounds like a AAAA farm team (PIT, COL) to me.

No they will spend once the team is close to competing. They have a plan in place for how they will handle the prospects and sign good prospects to extensions. If you think the cardinals are going to win anything by signing guys like Gibson and Lynn and they aren’t going to attract any good free agents because they can’t outbid the Yankees and dodgers and Mets and because they aren’t going to want to come to a team that has firmly established they are now a losing franchise. So complain all you want but it doesn’t change the fact they are now trying to fix mos mess and build a good winning team instead of sustaining mediocrity

And they didn't even win anything with those guys because the rest of the roster has been no where near good enough for guys like that to matter

[CorneliusWolfe]

I feel like there’s a very real danger this franchise never decides they have gotten to the point to go all in and invest in the present over the future

And even more, I suspect at least a number of posters would be OK with that. In that they value “prospects” more for their prospect status than for what they ever actually do as proven veterans.

Suppose we do trade Gray and Nado this winter for the proverbial bucket of balls and salary relief. What would we even reinvest the money in? Probably nothing, and again some would be fine with that because there will be no “good deals” in the ever inflating market of free agency.

As soon as that’s over, they will turn their attention to trading Donovan and Noot because, well, they’ve gotten to an age where they might not get any better. The focus is not on what they can or can’t contribute at a positive war level, but rather on their trajectory of future improvement. Then what’s next? Will they lose interest in Libby in another year or two when his arbitration salary hits 6 million and he approaches Free Agency? Should Winn be traded before he hits 27 and risks losing trade value? Is JoJo traded for a nobody prospect because he has “value” and might fetch even less than that nobody if we wait?

The problem here is it’s always about maximizing trade value relative to that single players future trade value and not relative to what they can actually produce for us. And there’s no serious consideration to whether we can get anything back that actually makes us better. Just an assumption that a shotgun approach to hording random prospects will somehow work out better than not having prospects.

At what point will those prospect addicts become willing to actually spend the cache of prospects to suddenly buy a proven producer of wins on the field at the MLB level? Even if that producer is gasp! 30 years old?

At what point do we say the future is now let’s go for it? To them there is no answer, they just say it isn’t *Now and next year they will sing the same song.

Prospect hyperventilation is ridiculous. Winning doesn’t matter as long as the future might possibly be bright one day, if we live to see it.

Adding a 100mil of payroll to a .500 team moves the needle plenty if you make good FA choices and makes this a playoff team as soon as next year. But why do that when we can cheer for physically and mentally immature kids in the minors for the next 4 years and watch them struggle at the big league level their first couple of years too (if they make it) then we’ll win it all. If they suck we can always trade them for more prospects, THEN we’ll win it all. But most importantly, above all else let’s save BDW some f’ing money!

[Carp4Cy]

I feel like there’s a very real danger this franchise never decides they have gotten to the point to go all in and invest in the present over the future

And even more, I suspect at least a number of posters would be OK with that. In that they value “prospects” more for their prospect status than for what they ever actually do as proven veterans.

Suppose we do trade Gray and Nado this winter for the proverbial bucket of balls and salary relief. What would we even reinvest the money in? Probably nothing, and again some would be fine with that because there will be no “good deals” in the ever inflating market of free agency.

As soon as that’s over, they will turn their attention to trading Donovan and Noot because, well, they’ve gotten to an age where they might not get any better. The focus is not on what they can or can’t contribute at a positive war level, but rather on their trajectory of future improvement. Then what’s next? Will they lose interest in Libby in another year or two when his arbitration salary hits 6 million and he approaches Free Agency? Should Winn be traded before he hits 27 and risks losing trade value? Is JoJo traded for a nobody prospect because he has “value” and might fetch even less than that nobody if we wait?

The problem here is it’s always about maximizing trade value relative to that single players future trade value and not relative to what they can actually produce for us. And there’s no serious consideration to whether we can get anything back that actually makes us better. Just an assumption that a shotgun approach to hording random prospects will somehow work out better than not having prospects.

At what point will those prospect addicts become willing to actually spend the cache of prospects to suddenly buy a proven producer of wins on the field at the MLB level? Even if that producer is gasp! 30 years old?

At what point do we say the future is now let’s go for it? To them there is no answer, they just say it isn’t *Now and next year they will sing the same song.

Well the only way for the cardinals to get good again is to fix the mess of a system that mo left and develop players that are good. The cardinals don’t have the money to spend their way out of the mess mo left. People are delusional if they think they can spend a little money and get good again at best they would be around .500 again and miss the play offs again. I’m tired of the sustained mediocrity that some on here want to perpetuate by keeping mos awful approach going I want them to build a team that can be good. Is there a danger it won’t work? Yea but not as near of a certainty as keeping sustained mediocrity going will never win anything

Meanwhile where are the metrics to tell if we are succeeding or failing in this mission? How many prospects should we be promoting each year and how many war should they be generating at the MLB level by what year to prove that our system is developing what it should be?

And finally what’s the ultimate point of developing and promoting of these prospects, if we eventually trade them before the next round of prospects we generate comes along, and we never reach critical mass?

Sounds like a AAAA farm team (PIT, COL) to me.

No they will spend once the team is close to competing. They have a plan in place for how they will handle the prospects and sign good prospects to extensions. If you think the cardinals are going to win anything by signing guys like Gibson and Lynn and they aren’t going to attract any good free agents because they can’t outbid the Yankees and dodgers and Mets and because they aren’t going to want to come to a team that has firmly established they are now a losing franchise. So complain all you want but it doesn’t change the fact they are now trying to fix mos mess and build a good winning team instead of sustaining mediocrity

Except we didn’t extend the best 2 prospects we developed this decade - Flaherty and Helsley. We just decided we wouldn’t extend them and traded them and then focused on how they weren’t good enough.

Yet we pretend like the next round of prospects magically won’t have any weaknesses???
You can’t have it both ways.

[Ozziesfan41]

I feel like there’s a very real danger this franchise never decides they have gotten to the point to go all in and invest in the present over the future

And even more, I suspect at least a number of posters would be OK with that. In that they value “prospects” more for their prospect status than for what they ever actually do as proven veterans.

Suppose we do trade Gray and Nado this winter for the proverbial bucket of balls and salary relief. What would we even reinvest the money in? Probably nothing, and again some would be fine with that because there will be no “good deals” in the ever inflating market of free agency.

As soon as that’s over, they will turn their attention to trading Donovan and Noot because, well, they’ve gotten to an age where they might not get any better. The focus is not on what they can or can’t contribute at a positive war level, but rather on their trajectory of future improvement. Then what’s next? Will they lose interest in Libby in another year or two when his arbitration salary hits 6 million and he approaches Free Agency? Should Winn be traded before he hits 27 and risks losing trade value? Is JoJo traded for a nobody prospect because he has “value” and might fetch even less than that nobody if we wait?

The problem here is it’s always about maximizing trade value relative to that single players future trade value and not relative to what they can actually produce for us. And there’s no serious consideration to whether we can get anything back that actually makes us better. Just an assumption that a shotgun approach to hording random prospects will somehow work out better than not having prospects.

At what point will those prospect addicts become willing to actually spend the cache of prospects to suddenly buy a proven producer of wins on the field at the MLB level? Even if that producer is gasp! 30 years old?

At what point do we say the future is now let’s go for it? To them there is no answer, they just say it isn’t *Now and next year they will sing the same song.

Well the only way for the cardinals to get good again is to fix the mess of a system that mo left and develop players that are good. The cardinals don’t have the money to spend their way out of the mess mo left. People are delusional if they think they can spend a little money and get good again at best they would be around .500 again and miss the play offs again. I’m tired of the sustained mediocrity that some on here want to perpetuate by keeping mos awful approach going I want them to build a team that can be good. Is there a danger it won’t work? Yea but not as near of a certainty as keeping sustained mediocrity going will never win anything

Meanwhile where are the metrics to tell if we are succeeding or failing in this mission? How many prospects should we be promoting each year and how many war should they be generating at the MLB level by what year to prove that our system is developing what it should be?

And finally what’s the ultimate point of developing and promoting of these prospects, if we eventually trade them before the next round of prospects we generate comes along, and we never reach critical mass?

Sounds like a AAAA farm team (PIT, COL) to me.

No they will spend once the team is close to competing. They have a plan in place for how they will handle the prospects and sign good prospects to extensions. If you think the cardinals are going to win anything by signing guys like Gibson and Lynn and they aren’t going to attract any good free agents because they can’t outbid the Yankees and dodgers and Mets and because they aren’t going to want to come to a team that has firmly established they are now a losing franchise. So complain all you want but it doesn’t change the fact they are now trying to fix mos mess and build a good winning team instead of sustaining mediocrity

Except we didn’t extend the best 2 prospects we developed this decade - Flaherty and Helsley. We just decided we wouldn’t extend them and traded them and then focused on how they weren’t good enough.

Yet we pretend like the next round of prospects magically won’t have any weaknesses???
You can’t have it both ways.

Have you not paid any attention to what’s been going on with the cardinals? Mo gutted the development system just trashed it. Bloom came in to fix it and brought in great baseball minds from organizations like Cleveland. If you think the cardinals could have thrived with a terrible development system not producing players then you’re insane. And you’re complaining about them trading Flaherty and helesley and not extending them? They suck. And who said they wouldn’t have any weaknesses? What is your big. Plan for the cardinals keep arenado who sucks and gray who is meh and sign some old veteran broken down pitchers and pray some how they compete?

[2ninr]

Did somebody just complain about not extending Flaherty or Helsley? Those were mos good moves. There's only a couple everyday players on this team who aren't old or don't suck in some important phase of the game ( hitting or defense). Tell me about our starting pitching. There's only a few teams today who can buy a roster. We aren't one of them. That's why I'm firmly behind the rebuild and development program.

[sikeston bulldog2]

What were once vices are now habits scenerio.

[Cusecards]

To me you win with a combination of veteran leadership/talent and youth.
They had a core of veterans (Molina, Goldy, Arenado, even Waino) but the farm system has not produced as it needs to!
Hopefully that is beginning to change with Winn, Herrera, Burleson, and now JJ looming.
Young pitchers(Doyle, etc) are especially needed.
You can add pieces through FA to supplement the core but there is no way that the Cards can build consistent teams through free agency.
One positive- with Arenado soon departing along with Mikolas, etc they don’t really have a lot of big $$ committed long term.

[alw80]

I feel like there’s a very real danger this franchise never decides they have gotten to the point to go all in and invest in the present over the future

And even more, I suspect at least a number of posters would be OK with that. In that they value “prospects” more for their prospect status than for what they ever actually do as proven veterans.

Suppose we do trade Gray and Nado this winter for the proverbial bucket of balls and salary relief. What would we even reinvest the money in? Probably nothing, and again some would be fine with that because there will be no “good deals” in the ever inflating market of free agency.

As soon as that’s over, they will turn their attention to trading Donovan and Noot because, well, they’ve gotten to an age where they might not get any better. The focus is not on what they can or can’t contribute at a positive war level, but rather on their trajectory of future improvement. Then what’s next? Will they lose interest in Libby in another year or two when his arbitration salary hits 6 million and he approaches Free Agency? Should Winn be traded before he hits 27 and risks losing trade value? Is JoJo traded for a nobody prospect because he has “value” and might fetch even less than that nobody if we wait?

The problem here is it’s always about maximizing trade value relative to that single players future trade value and not relative to what they can actually produce for us. And there’s no serious consideration to whether we can get anything back that actually makes us better. Just an assumption that a shotgun approach to hording random prospects will somehow work out better than not having prospects.

At what point will those prospect addicts become willing to actually spend the cache of prospects to suddenly buy a proven producer of wins on the field at the MLB level? Even if that producer is gasp! 30 years old?

At what point do we say the future is now let’s go for it? To them there is no answer, they just say it isn’t *Now and next year they will sing the same song.

Nonsense.

[scoutyjones2]

First a thread about asking the team to tank, and now claiming they're tanking.

Pathetic

[rockondlouie]

BDWJr is going to see a decrease in his franchise value after losing 1M in attendance.

And it's going to fall below 2M in 2026 unless C. Bloom can pull of some miracle trades and his revamped minor league system churns out some truly impactful players.

I don't think Bill wants to see hundreds of millions of dollars in capital gains just fade away, he'll spend again after the new CBA is in place.

JMO

[Carp4Cy]

I feel like there’s a very real danger this franchise never decides they have gotten to the point to go all in and invest in the present over the future

And even more, I suspect at least a number of posters would be OK with that. In that they value “prospects” more for their prospect status than for what they ever actually do as proven veterans.

Suppose we do trade Gray and Nado this winter for the proverbial bucket of balls and salary relief. What would we even reinvest the money in? Probably nothing, and again some would be fine with that because there will be no “good deals” in the ever inflating market of free agency.

As soon as that’s over, they will turn their attention to trading Donovan and Noot because, well, they’ve gotten to an age where they might not get any better. The focus is not on what they can or can’t contribute at a positive war level, but rather on their trajectory of future improvement. Then what’s next? Will they lose interest in Libby in another year or two when his arbitration salary hits 6 million and he approaches Free Agency? Should Winn be traded before he hits 27 and risks losing trade value? Is JoJo traded for a nobody prospect because he has “value” and might fetch even less than that nobody if we wait?

The problem here is it’s always about maximizing trade value relative to that single players future trade value and not relative to what they can actually produce for us. And there’s no serious consideration to whether we can get anything back that actually makes us better. Just an assumption that a shotgun approach to hording random prospects will somehow work out better than not having prospects.

At what point will those prospect addicts become willing to actually spend the cache of prospects to suddenly buy a proven producer of wins on the field at the MLB level? Even if that producer is gasp! 30 years old?

At what point do we say the future is now let’s go for it? To them there is no answer, they just say it isn’t *Now and next year they will sing the same song.

Well the only way for the cardinals to get good again is to fix the mess of a system that mo left and develop players that are good. The cardinals don’t have the money to spend their way out of the mess mo left. People are delusional if they think they can spend a little money and get good again at best they would be around .500 again and miss the play offs again. I’m tired of the sustained mediocrity that some on here want to perpetuate by keeping mos awful approach going I want them to build a team that can be good. Is there a danger it won’t work? Yea but not as near of a certainty as keeping sustained mediocrity going will never win anything

Meanwhile where are the metrics to tell if we are succeeding or failing in this mission? How many prospects should we be promoting each year and how many war should they be generating at the MLB level by what year to prove that our system is developing what it should be?

And finally what’s the ultimate point of developing and promoting of these prospects, if we eventually trade them before the next round of prospects we generate comes along, and we never reach critical mass?

Sounds like a AAAA farm team (PIT, COL) to me.

No they will spend once the team is close to competing. They have a plan in place for how they will handle the prospects and sign good prospects to extensions. If you think the cardinals are going to win anything by signing guys like Gibson and Lynn and they aren’t going to attract any good free agents because they can’t outbid the Yankees and dodgers and Mets and because they aren’t going to want to come to a team that has firmly established they are now a losing franchise. So complain all you want but it doesn’t change the fact they are now trying to fix mos mess and build a good winning team instead of sustaining mediocrity

Except we didn’t extend the best 2 prospects we developed this decade - Flaherty and Helsley. We just decided we wouldn’t extend them and traded them and then focused on how they weren’t good enough.

Yet we pretend like the next round of prospects magically won’t have any weaknesses???
You can’t have it both ways.

Have you not paid any attention to what’s been going on with the cardinals? Mo gutted the development system just trashed it. Bloom came in to fix it and brought in great baseball minds from organizations like Cleveland. If you think the cardinals could have thrived with a terrible development system not producing players then you’re insane. And you’re complaining about them trading Flaherty and helesley and not extending them? They suck. And who said they wouldn’t have any weaknesses? What is your big. Plan for the cardinals keep arenado who sucks and gray who is meh and sign some old veteran broken down pitchers and pray some how they compete?

2 things
1. Bloom could have been brought in to fix the MiLB programs without stopping nearly all spending at the MLB level. The cost of better coaches and consultants and analytics and iPads is a tiny fraction of one single market priced free agent. We have to stop pretending BDW couldn’t do both and maintain attendance if he’d wanted to.

2. You can’t blame the minor league system for Jack and Helsley. They were all stars. We should be celebrating that our system produced that. The minors had nothing to do with them falling off in performance in year 6. But even the best development program isn’t going to prevent the next round of prospects from also getting hurt by age 28 and suddenly “sucking”. That’s my whole point.
The same “expert” posters on this board who were so excited about Bloom and what his program is going to produce we’re excited about Jack and Noot and Donovan and others 5-7 years ago.

In a couple years Libby is going to go something like 3-8 or get hurt and also be on the verge of a $50-$100m contract. Burly will plateau and suddenly start requiring ARB level money. JJW, if he’s any good will require a 13 year contract for obscene amounts that no one here wants to spend because they still use 2016 costs as their mental anchoring point.

We can’t just keep pulling back and avoid all risks- the org is going to have to be both smart and aggressive or this minor league development program isn’t going to go the distance either. Without a commitment to spend in the right places and maybe even make a couple r calculated gambles that maybe don’t necessarily work out because the market requires it, we might simply produce a lot of talent that we refuse to keep around long enough to win because we don’t like the price tag, or the fact that they hit a rough stretch right before free agency.