MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…

[ecleme22]

The levels of futility this org has felt the last five years really just comes down to one move:

Trading for Ozuna.

(Honorable mentions: signing Fowler and trading Randy)

2021: picked up two starters at the deadline:
2022: two starters at DL
2024: one starter at the DL

What would those teams look like with Sandy and Zac in the rotation?
What would the 2023 and 2025 teams look like?

Those trades also cost us Oviedo, Bader, Thomas and Edman. I’m not against trading any of those guys, but what else could we have gotten if we weren’t trying to patchwork the rotation?


Closing thoughts: this really comes to a few things:Lack of talent evaluation (high on Hudson/weaver/jack!) and making a move that should not be made by a mid market organization. If you need an OFer, you do what the 2004 did and sign a number of players on 1-2 year deals and hope one strikes gold. Or like the 2011 or 2012 cards team did.

One move—just one—changed MO’s legacy.

[Braund241]

They stopped having high end talent and bringing in stop gap fixes, like Will Clark, Larry Walker, etc. And having a coaching staff that knew about winning. Many problems over a long time. Mo destroyed this high end franchise, and personally with the changing times, they may never get it back. I guarantee they are not fun to follow.

[ecleme22]

They stopped having high end talent and bringing in stop gap fixes, like Will Clark, Larry Walker, etc. And having a coaching staff that knew about winning. Many problems over a long time. Mo destroyed this high end franchise, and personally with the changing times, they may never get it back. I guarantee they are not fun to follow.

I’ve said FOR YEARS that Mo stopped bringing in 1-2 vets to start.

You realize the Lynn and Gibson deals were the first time he signed a 1 year stating pitcher since like 2011.

When was the last time Mo brought in a 1-2 deal for a starting offense player? I’m not talking about a backup like Reynolds or Ellis who were thrust into starting. Like a Berkman type who owned a position?

I think it was Beltran ‘12…

[brock118]

The levels of futility this org has felt the last five years really just comes down to one move:

Trading for Ozuna.

(Honorable mentions: signing Fowler and trading Randy)

2021: picked up two starters at the deadline:
2022: two starters at DL
2024: one starter at the DL

What would those teams look like with Sandy and Zac in the rotation?
What would the 2023 and 2025 teams look like?

Those trades also cost us Oviedo, Bader, Thomas and Edman. I’m not against trading any of those guys, but what else could we have gotten if we weren’t trying to patchwork the rotation?


Closing thoughts: this really comes to a few things:Lack of talent evaluation (high on Hudson/weaver/jack!) and making a move that should not be made by a mid market organization. If you need an OFer, you do what the 2004 did and sign a number of players on 1-2 year deals and hope one strikes gold. Or like the 2011 or 2012 cards team did.

One move—just one—changed MO’s legacy.

I think it goes back further. I think when Taveras died we had to shift. I'm not convinced Taveras would have been the next big thing, but he was ranked that way in almost all rankings. We then did a quick trade for Heyward and arguably overpaid for him. Atlanta turned Miller over for Dansby Swanson, who was one of the top prospects at the time. Then when Heyward told us to pound sand, we doubled down on a bad decision and overpaid and overextended Dexter Fowler. Which in turn led us to trying to get Ozuna.

[ecleme22]

The levels of futility this org has felt the last five years really just comes down to one move:

Trading for Ozuna.

(Honorable mentions: signing Fowler and trading Randy)

2021: picked up two starters at the deadline:
2022: two starters at DL
2024: one starter at the DL

What would those teams look like with Sandy and Zac in the rotation?
What would the 2023 and 2025 teams look like?

Those trades also cost us Oviedo, Bader, Thomas and Edman. I’m not against trading any of those guys, but what else could we have gotten if we weren’t trying to patchwork the rotation?


Closing thoughts: this really comes to a few things:Lack of talent evaluation (high on Hudson/weaver/jack!) and making a move that should not be made by a mid market organization. If you need an OFer, you do what the 2004 did and sign a number of players on 1-2 year deals and hope one strikes gold. Or like the 2011 or 2012 cards team did.

One move—just one—changed MO’s legacy.

I think it goes back further. I think when Taveras died we had to shift. I'm not convinced Taveras would have been the next big thing, but he was ranked that way in almost all rankings. We then did a quick trade for Heyward and arguably overpaid for him. Atlanta turned Miller over for Dansby Swanson, who was one of the top prospects at the time. Then when Heyward told us to pound sand, we doubled down on a bad decision and overpaid and overextended Dexter Fowler. Which in turn led us to trying to get Ozuna.

Well it goes back to my reply to Braun.

The cards arguably needed an OFer for 2015. Why did it have to come in a trade? And to give up Miller, who was only 23 and coming off a solid season.

Also, not to mention the heart Mo had for Grichuk.

Lack of talent evaluation all around.

[Ozziesfan41]

No it was far more than one move. It was bad move after bad move after bad move. That didn’t derail the franchise it was a hit they could have recovered from but signing mediocre players like Fowler leake mikolas trading arorzorena and keeping scrubs like Bader and O’Neil and Carlson and grichuk and Adams. No one move can derail a franchise only continual mistakes sinks a franchise which Mo did. Then instead of rebuilding last season he decided to try to “win” by signing Gibson and Lynn which only managed to get them a couple of more wins over .500 a complete wasted season on dumb moves on mediocre players then this season being dumb and not trading helsley and fedde in the offseason when their value was higher. He never stopped making dumb moves

[ecleme22]

No it was far more than one move. It was bad move after move after move. That didn’t derail the franchise it was a hit they could have recovered from but signing mediocre players like Fowler leake mikolas trading arorzorena and keeping scrubs like Bader and O’Neil and Carlson and grichuk and Adams. No one move can derail a franchise only continual mistakes sinks a franchise which Mo did. Then instead of rebuilding last season he decided to try to “win” by signing Gibson and Lynn which only managed to get them a couple of more wins over .500 a complete wasted season on dumb moves on mediocre players then this season being dumb and not trading helsley and fedde in the offseason when their value was higher. He never stopped making dumb moves

But in all that bad talent evaluation, not doing the Ozuna trade wouldn’t changed the last 5 years in a big way.

[icon]

No it was far more than one move. It was bad move after move after move. That didn’t derail the franchise it was a hit they could have recovered from but signing mediocre players like Fowler leake mikolas trading arorzorena and keeping scrubs like Bader and O’Neil and Carlson and grichuk and Adams. No one move can derail a franchise only continual mistakes sinks a franchise which Mo did. Then instead of rebuilding last season he decided to try to “win” by signing Gibson and Lynn which only managed to get them a couple of more wins over .500 a complete wasted season on dumb moves on mediocre players then this season being dumb and not trading helsley and fedde in the offseason when their value was higher. He never stopped making dumb moves

Yeah, Mozeliak put a torch to at least $300 million of BDW's money on lousy free agents and foolhardy extensions. Fowler, Leake, Cecil, Miller, Gregerson, Holland, Broxton, Mikolas, Carpenter, Waino. Not sure I've listed all the misfires.

The bad trades were just part of a general picture of gross incompetence.

[CorneliusWolfe]

The levels of futility this org has felt the last five years really just comes down to one move:

Trading for Ozuna.

(Honorable mentions: signing Fowler and trading Randy)

2021: picked up two starters at the deadline:
2022: two starters at DL
2024: one starter at the DL

What would those teams look like with Sandy and Zac in the rotation?
What would the 2023 and 2025 teams look like?

Those trades also cost us Oviedo, Bader, Thomas and Edman. I’m not against trading any of those guys, but what else could we have gotten if we weren’t trying to patchwork the rotation?


Closing thoughts: this really comes to a few things:Lack of talent evaluation (high on Hudson/weaver/jack!) and making a move that should not be made by a mid market organization. If you need an OFer, you do what the 2004 did and sign a number of players on 1-2 year deals and hope one strikes gold. Or like the 2011 or 2012 cards team did.

One move—just one—changed MO’s legacy.

The Ozuna trade was a huge blunder, but it is symptomatic of his real deficiency. The guy can’t evaluate talent. Management or players. He always keeps the wrong guys.

[Ozziesfan41]

The levels of futility this org has felt the last five years really just comes down to one move:

Trading for Ozuna.

(Honorable mentions: signing Fowler and trading Randy)

2021: picked up two starters at the deadline:
2022: two starters at DL
2024: one starter at the DL

What would those teams look like with Sandy and Zac in the rotation?
What would the 2023 and 2025 teams look like?

Those trades also cost us Oviedo, Bader, Thomas and Edman. I’m not against trading any of those guys, but what else could we have gotten if we weren’t trying to patchwork the rotation?


Closing thoughts: this really comes to a few things:Lack of talent evaluation (high on Hudson/weaver/jack!) and making a move that should not be made by a mid market organization. If you need an OFer, you do what the 2004 did and sign a number of players on 1-2 year deals and hope one strikes gold. Or like the 2011 or 2012 cards team did.

One move—just one—changed MO’s legacy.

The Ozuna trade was a huge blunder, but it is symptomatic of his real deficiency. The guy can’t evaluate talent. Management or players. He always keeps the wrong guys.

+1

[sp25]

Personally, I hated the premature, unnecessary, and disastrous extension for Matt Carpenter.

Epitome of Mo's bad management.

[icon]

Personally, I hated the premature, unnecessary, and disastrous extension for Matt Carpenter.

Epitome of Mo's bad management.

And then doubled down on a past his prime Mikolas.

[ecleme22]

The levels of futility this org has felt the last five years really just comes down to one move:

Trading for Ozuna.

(Honorable mentions: signing Fowler and trading Randy)

2021: picked up two starters at the deadline:
2022: two starters at DL
2024: one starter at the DL

What would those teams look like with Sandy and Zac in the rotation?
What would the 2023 and 2025 teams look like?

Those trades also cost us Oviedo, Bader, Thomas and Edman. I’m not against trading any of those guys, but what else could we have gotten if we weren’t trying to patchwork the rotation?


Closing thoughts: this really comes to a few things:Lack of talent evaluation (high on Hudson/weaver/jack!) and making a move that should not be made by a mid market organization. If you need an OFer, you do what the 2004 did and sign a number of players on 1-2 year deals and hope one strikes gold. Or like the 2011 or 2012 cards team did.

One move—just one—changed MO’s legacy.

The Ozuna trade was a huge blunder, but it is symptomatic of his real deficiency. The guy can’t evaluate talent. Management or players. He always keeps the wrong guys.

+1

Agree. Though the Leake and Fowler signings hurt, it wasn’t the seismic change like the Ozuna trade.

[Clubmaker2]

idiot Mo offered Jason Heyward , a non impact bat, 192 million or more.... the criteria for selecting some players became not their ability , but some imagined marketing advantage ..... Mo spelled it out with Fowler.

[ecleme22]

idiot Mo offered Jason Heyward , a non impact bat, 192 million or more.... the criteria for selecting some players became not their ability , but some imagined marketing advantage ..... Mo spelled it out with Fowler.

It’s funny though. I have a laundry list of Mo blunders. But not trading for Ozuna would’ve made that laundry list less impactful.

[Melville]

Reuniting Pujols, Wainwright, and Molina was the defining moment of the TOXIC CULTURE.
I was the only person who fully and immediately understood what it meant at the time.
And said so.