Charles King wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 07:16 am
The DH is a position. American League teams have a player that plays that position all the time. Why not us. Gorman can't hit enough. Burleson can play outfield or first. Contreras can play first. Let Herrera play DH
+1 I don’t know why people are obsessed with everyone having to play a position. If you have Burly in right and Herrera in left your outfield defense is going to suck badly. Just park him at DH and let him hit. I would rather a guy just DH and have a better fielding outfielder than put an average or below average guy in the field just so you can say he has a position for some reason
Why is it a forgone conclusion Burly is in RF?
Where else is he going to play? He’s not going to play first Contreras has shown zero interest in waiving his no trade clause and has repeatedly said he doesn’t want to go. So burly will play right left or be traded
Hypothetical:
If the defensive-clunky LFer Walker had an .850 OPS right now, would that be a problem to you?
It depends on who is on left. If that person sucks then yea it would be a problem if they want to win. The cardinals aren’t going to magically have a bunch of strike out pitchers next season. They will have a rotation of pitch to contact pitchers and pitch to contact + awful defense equals lots and lots of unnecessary losses. But you like the idea of awful defense in the outfield so that’s cool it will cost them a lot of games though
So you're fine with one bad OFer?
Why can't it be Herrera then? He has a much better OPS than Burleson.
Charles King wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 07:16 am
The DH is a position. American League teams have a player that plays that position all the time. Why not us. Gorman can't hit enough. Burleson can play outfield or first. Contreras can play first. Let Herrera play DH
+1 I don’t know why people are obsessed with everyone having to play a position. If you have Burly in right and Herrera in left your outfield defense is going to suck badly. Just park him at DH and let him hit. I would rather a guy just DH and have a better fielding outfielder than put an average or below average guy in the field just so you can say he has a position for some reason
Why is it a forgone conclusion Burly is in RF?
Where else is he going to play? He’s not going to play first Contreras has shown zero interest in waiving his no trade clause and has repeatedly said he doesn’t want to go. So burly will play right left or be traded
Hypothetical:
If the defensive-clunky LFer Walker had an .850 OPS right now, would that be a problem to you?
It depends on who is on left. If that person sucks then yea it would be a problem if they want to win. The cardinals aren’t going to magically have a bunch of strike out pitchers next season. They will have a rotation of pitch to contact pitchers and pitch to contact + awful defense equals lots and lots of unnecessary losses. But you like the idea of awful defense in the outfield so that’s cool it will cost them a lot of games though
So you're fine with one bad OFer?
Why can't it be Herrera then? He has a much better OPS than Burleson.
That would be fine. I just don’t won’t to see two terrible outfielders with a pitch to contact staff that would be awful and cost them a lot of games. I would prefer three good outfielders but that’s not really a realistic expectation.
Haven't watched him out there a lot or looked at his left field metrics but he passed the eye test in the few games I saw. Was a little shaky on the first fly ball in game 1 but after that, thought he looked fine.
I understand he wants to catch, and if Bloom allows this to happen then we're doomed as an organization moving forward. First off, he's not an exceptional catcher who, obviously, was around league-worst at throwing out base runners. But more importantly, he's currently the best hitter we've got, and he clearly has durability issues, so allowing him to catch because he wants to is idiotic.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 07:37 am
Hererra is a DH. If he is the only player on the team who can only hit and can't field a position then he is a keeper. Meanwhile Contreras is a poor defensive first baseman. 9 errors. 1 behind Alonso and Wagaman for most at the position.
Contreras should be the DH but Hererra is so bad defensively that get the DH spot. Cardinals are in need of an instructor who can teach the game.
errors is a terrible metric for grading total defense. contreras has rated as an avg to above average as a 1b. he can stretch and handke difficult throws to save other fielders from making errors. a bad defensive 1b wont encessarily commit errors but can cost his other fielders errors or can let every ball past infield.
Charles King wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 07:16 am
The DH is a position. American League teams have a player that plays that position all the time. Why not us. Gorman can't hit enough. Burleson can play outfield or first. Contreras can play first. Let Herrera play DH
+1 I don’t know why people are obsessed with everyone having to play a position. If you have Burly in right and Herrera in left your outfield defense is going to suck badly. Just park him at DH and let him hit. I would rather a guy just DH and have a better fielding outfielder than put an average or below average guy in the field just so you can say he has a position for some reason
Why is it a forgone conclusion Burly is in RF?
Where else is he going to play? He’s not going to play first Contreras has shown zero interest in waiving his no trade clause and has repeatedly said he doesn’t want to go. So burly will play right left or be traded
Hypothetical:
If the defensive-clunky LFer Walker had an .850 OPS right now, would that be a problem to you?
It depends on who is on left. If that person sucks then yea it would be a problem if they want to win. The cardinals aren’t going to magically have a bunch of strike out pitchers next season. They will have a rotation of pitch to contact pitchers and pitch to contact + awful defense equals lots and lots of unnecessary losses. But you like the idea of awful defense in the outfield so that’s cool it will cost them a lot of games though
So you're fine with one bad OFer?
Why can't it be Herrera then? He has a much better OPS than Burleson.
That would be fine. I just don’t won’t to see two terrible outfielders with a pitch to contact staff that would be awful and cost them a lot of games. I would prefer three good outfielders but that’s not really a realistic expectation.
I think the play is to work out IH at catcher and left field. Burleson, OF, 1B.
Charles King wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 07:16 am
The DH is a position. American League teams have a player that plays that position all the time. Why not us. Gorman can't hit enough. Burleson can play outfield or first. Contreras can play first. Let Herrera play DH
+1 I don’t know why people are obsessed with everyone having to play a position. If you have Burly in right and Herrera in left your outfield defense is going to suck badly. Just park him at DH and let him hit. I would rather a guy just DH and have a better fielding outfielder than put an average or below average guy in the field just so you can say he has a position for some reason
Why is it a forgone conclusion Burly is in RF?
Where else is he going to play? He’s not going to play first Contreras has shown zero interest in waiving his no trade clause and has repeatedly said he doesn’t want to go. So burly will play right left or be traded
Hypothetical:
If the defensive-clunky LFer Walker had an .850 OPS right now, would that be a problem to you?
It depends on who is on left. If that person sucks then yea it would be a problem if they want to win. The cardinals aren’t going to magically have a bunch of strike out pitchers next season. They will have a rotation of pitch to contact pitchers and pitch to contact + awful defense equals lots and lots of unnecessary losses. But you like the idea of awful defense in the outfield so that’s cool it will cost them a lot of games though
So you're fine with one bad OFer?
Why can't it be Herrera then? He has a much better OPS than Burleson.
That would be fine. I just don’t won’t to see two terrible outfielders with a pitch to contact staff that would be awful and cost them a lot of games. I would prefer three good outfielders but that’s not really a realistic expectation.
I think the play is to work out IH at catcher and left field. Burleson, OF, 1B.
And then see what happens. You never know.
We will see what happens it will be bad defense if they are in the same outfield together really bad
Charles King wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 07:16 am
The DH is a position. American League teams have a player that plays that position all the time. Why not us. Gorman can't hit enough. Burleson can play outfield or first. Contreras can play first. Let Herrera play DH
+1 I don’t know why people are obsessed with everyone having to play a position. If you have Burly in right and Herrera in left your outfield defense is going to suck badly. Just park him at DH and let him hit. I would rather a guy just DH and have a better fielding outfielder than put an average or below average guy in the field just so you can say he has a position for some reason
Why is it a forgone conclusion Burly is in RF?
Where else is he going to play? He’s not going to play first Contreras has shown zero interest in waiving his no trade clause and has repeatedly said he doesn’t want to go. So burly will play right left or be traded
Hypothetical:
If the defensive-clunky LFer Walker had an .850 OPS right now, would that be a problem to you?
It depends on who is on left. If that person sucks then yea it would be a problem if they want to win. The cardinals aren’t going to magically have a bunch of strike out pitchers next season. They will have a rotation of pitch to contact pitchers and pitch to contact + awful defense equals lots and lots of unnecessary losses. But you like the idea of awful defense in the outfield so that’s cool it will cost them a lot of games though
So you're fine with one bad OFer?
Why can't it be Herrera then? He has a much better OPS than Burleson.
That would be fine. I just don’t won’t to see two terrible outfielders with a pitch to contact staff that would be awful and cost them a lot of games. I would prefer three good outfielders but that’s not really a realistic expectation.
I think the play is to work out IH at catcher and left field. Burleson, OF, 1B.
And then see what happens. You never know.
We will see what happens it will be bad defense if they are in the same outfield together really bad
I think you are a little doom and gloom.
In 2025, Walker has 97 starts in the OF. Burleson 72. While not ideal, the sky didn't fall.
And here's your stance: "No, Herrera can't play OF because he and Burleson, together, will be bad."
We have no idea if AB or WC has an injury. Maybe AB struggles. Maybe we want to make AB available for a trade during the season and he's traded.
There is simply no reason now to poo poo, in Sept 2025, Herrera becoming more flexible in 2026.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 07:37 am
Hererra is a DH. If he is the only player on the team who can only hit and can't field a position then he is a keeper. Meanwhile Contreras is a poor defensive first baseman. 9 errors. 1 behind Alonso and Wagaman for most at the position.
Contreras should be the DH but Hererra is so bad defensively that get the DH spot. Cardinals are in need of an instructor who can teach the game.
errors is a terrible metric for grading total defense. contreras has rated as an avg to above average as a 1b. he can stretch and handke difficult throws to save other fielders from making errors. a bad defensive 1b wont encessarily commit errors but can cost his other fielders errors or can let every ball past infield.
I don't watch the games but I remember a video of Contreras tripping a Milwaukee runner by putting his foot in front of the bag. People claimed it was accidental. I've never seen that before.
Charles King wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 07:16 am
The DH is a position. American League teams have a player that plays that position all the time. Why not us. Gorman can't hit enough. Burleson can play outfield or first. Contreras can play first. Let Herrera play DH
+1 I don’t know why people are obsessed with everyone having to play a position. If you have Burly in right and Herrera in left your outfield defense is going to suck badly. Just park him at DH and let him hit. I would rather a guy just DH and have a better fielding outfielder than put an average or below average guy in the field just so you can say he has a position for some reason
Why is it a forgone conclusion Burly is in RF?
Where else is he going to play? He’s not going to play first Contreras has shown zero interest in waiving his no trade clause and has repeatedly said he doesn’t want to go. So burly will play right left or be traded
Hypothetical:
If the defensive-clunky LFer Walker had an .850 OPS right now, would that be a problem to you?
It depends on who is on left. If that person sucks then yea it would be a problem if they want to win. The cardinals aren’t going to magically have a bunch of strike out pitchers next season. They will have a rotation of pitch to contact pitchers and pitch to contact + awful defense equals lots and lots of unnecessary losses. But you like the idea of awful defense in the outfield so that’s cool it will cost them a lot of games though
So you're fine with one bad OFer?
Why can't it be Herrera then? He has a much better OPS than Burleson.
That would be fine. I just don’t won’t to see two terrible outfielders with a pitch to contact staff that would be awful and cost them a lot of games. I would prefer three good outfielders but that’s not really a realistic expectation.
I think the play is to work out IH at catcher and left field. Burleson, OF, 1B.
And then see what happens. You never know.
We will see what happens it will be bad defense if they are in the same outfield together really bad
I think you are a little doom and gloom.
In 2025, Walker has 97 starts in the OF. Burleson 72. While not ideal, the sky didn't fall.
And here's your stance: "No, Herrera can't play OF because he and Burleson, together, will be bad."
We have no idea if AB or WC has an injury. Maybe AB struggles. Maybe we want to make AB available for a trade during the season and he's traded.
There is simply no reason now to poo poo, in Sept 2025, Herrera becoming more flexible in 2026.
That play by walker is exactly why you don’t want two of those poor defensive outfielders every day in the outfield you can survive with one but two will kill you
Charles King wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 07:16 am
The DH is a position. American League teams have a player that plays that position all the time. Why not us. Gorman can't hit enough. Burleson can play outfield or first. Contreras can play first. Let Herrera play DH
+1 I don’t know why people are obsessed with everyone having to play a position. If you have Burly in right and Herrera in left your outfield defense is going to suck badly. Just park him at DH and let him hit. I would rather a guy just DH and have a better fielding outfielder than put an average or below average guy in the field just so you can say he has a position for some reason
Why is it a forgone conclusion Burly is in RF?
Where else is he going to play? He’s not going to play first Contreras has shown zero interest in waiving his no trade clause and has repeatedly said he doesn’t want to go. So burly will play right left or be traded
Hypothetical:
If the defensive-clunky LFer Walker had an .850 OPS right now, would that be a problem to you?
It depends on who is on left. If that person sucks then yea it would be a problem if they want to win. The cardinals aren’t going to magically have a bunch of strike out pitchers next season. They will have a rotation of pitch to contact pitchers and pitch to contact + awful defense equals lots and lots of unnecessary losses. But you like the idea of awful defense in the outfield so that’s cool it will cost them a lot of games though
So you're fine with one bad OFer?
Why can't it be Herrera then? He has a much better OPS than Burleson.
That would be fine. I just don’t won’t to see two terrible outfielders with a pitch to contact staff that would be awful and cost them a lot of games. I would prefer three good outfielders but that’s not really a realistic expectation.
I think the play is to work out IH at catcher and left field. Burleson, OF, 1B.
And then see what happens. You never know.
We will see what happens it will be bad defense if they are in the same outfield together really bad
I think you are a little doom and gloom.
In 2025, Walker has 97 starts in the OF. Burleson 72. While not ideal, the sky didn't fall.
And here's your stance: "No, Herrera can't play OF because he and Burleson, together, will be bad."
We have no idea if AB or WC has an injury. Maybe AB struggles. Maybe we want to make AB available for a trade during the season and he's traded.
There is simply no reason now to poo poo, in Sept 2025, Herrera becoming more flexible in 2026.
That play by walker is exactly why you don’t want two of those poor defensive outfielders every day in the outfield you can survive with one but two will kill you
Case in point: is Herrera catching now? No. He started only 13 games and, though he had injuries, they haven’t put him back there.
If IH and AB in the OF is a sh show, it won’t last.
You are thinking too short term: “oh no! What will the OF be like in April, 2026?!!!”
Who cares. We have no idea what the team makeup will be by then.
+1 I don’t know why people are obsessed with everyone having to play a position. If you have Burly in right and Herrera in left your outfield defense is going to suck badly. Just park him at DH and let him hit. I would rather a guy just DH and have a better fielding outfielder than put an average or below average guy in the field just so you can say he has a position for some reason
Why is it a forgone conclusion Burly is in RF?
Where else is he going to play? He’s not going to play first Contreras has shown zero interest in waiving his no trade clause and has repeatedly said he doesn’t want to go. So burly will play right left or be traded
Hypothetical:
If the defensive-clunky LFer Walker had an .850 OPS right now, would that be a problem to you?
It depends on who is on left. If that person sucks then yea it would be a problem if they want to win. The cardinals aren’t going to magically have a bunch of strike out pitchers next season. They will have a rotation of pitch to contact pitchers and pitch to contact + awful defense equals lots and lots of unnecessary losses. But you like the idea of awful defense in the outfield so that’s cool it will cost them a lot of games though
So you're fine with one bad OFer?
Why can't it be Herrera then? He has a much better OPS than Burleson.
That would be fine. I just don’t won’t to see two terrible outfielders with a pitch to contact staff that would be awful and cost them a lot of games. I would prefer three good outfielders but that’s not really a realistic expectation.
I think the play is to work out IH at catcher and left field. Burleson, OF, 1B.
And then see what happens. You never know.
We will see what happens it will be bad defense if they are in the same outfield together really bad
I think you are a little doom and gloom.
In 2025, Walker has 97 starts in the OF. Burleson 72. While not ideal, the sky didn't fall.
And here's your stance: "No, Herrera can't play OF because he and Burleson, together, will be bad."
We have no idea if AB or WC has an injury. Maybe AB struggles. Maybe we want to make AB available for a trade during the season and he's traded.
There is simply no reason now to poo poo, in Sept 2025, Herrera becoming more flexible in 2026.
That play by walker is exactly why you don’t want two of those poor defensive outfielders every day in the outfield you can survive with one but two will kill you
Case in point: is Herrera catching now? No. He started only 13 games and, though he had injuries, they haven’t put him back there.
If IH and AB in the OF is a sh show, it won’t last.
You are thinking too short term: “oh no! What will the OF be like in April, 2026?!!!”
Who cares. We have no idea what the team makeup will be by then.
Your thoughts. Herrera in left, risk shoddy play, or catch, and risk leg injuries.
Where else is he going to play? He’s not going to play first Contreras has shown zero interest in waiving his no trade clause and has repeatedly said he doesn’t want to go. So burly will play right left or be traded
Hypothetical:
If the defensive-clunky LFer Walker had an .850 OPS right now, would that be a problem to you?
It depends on who is on left. If that person sucks then yea it would be a problem if they want to win. The cardinals aren’t going to magically have a bunch of strike out pitchers next season. They will have a rotation of pitch to contact pitchers and pitch to contact + awful defense equals lots and lots of unnecessary losses. But you like the idea of awful defense in the outfield so that’s cool it will cost them a lot of games though
So you're fine with one bad OFer?
Why can't it be Herrera then? He has a much better OPS than Burleson.
That would be fine. I just don’t won’t to see two terrible outfielders with a pitch to contact staff that would be awful and cost them a lot of games. I would prefer three good outfielders but that’s not really a realistic expectation.
I think the play is to work out IH at catcher and left field. Burleson, OF, 1B.
And then see what happens. You never know.
We will see what happens it will be bad defense if they are in the same outfield together really bad
I think you are a little doom and gloom.
In 2025, Walker has 97 starts in the OF. Burleson 72. While not ideal, the sky didn't fall.
And here's your stance: "No, Herrera can't play OF because he and Burleson, together, will be bad."
We have no idea if AB or WC has an injury. Maybe AB struggles. Maybe we want to make AB available for a trade during the season and he's traded.
There is simply no reason now to poo poo, in Sept 2025, Herrera becoming more flexible in 2026.
That play by walker is exactly why you don’t want two of those poor defensive outfielders every day in the outfield you can survive with one but two will kill you
Case in point: is Herrera catching now? No. He started only 13 games and, though he had injuries, they haven’t put him back there.
If IH and AB in the OF is a sh show, it won’t last.
You are thinking too short term: “oh no! What will the OF be like in April, 2026?!!!”
Who cares. We have no idea what the team makeup will be by then.
Your thoughts. Herrera in left, risk shoddy play, or catch, and risk leg injuries.
Where else is he going to play? He’s not going to play first Contreras has shown zero interest in waiving his no trade clause and has repeatedly said he doesn’t want to go. So burly will play right left or be traded
Hypothetical:
If the defensive-clunky LFer Walker had an .850 OPS right now, would that be a problem to you?
It depends on who is on left. If that person sucks then yea it would be a problem if they want to win. The cardinals aren’t going to magically have a bunch of strike out pitchers next season. They will have a rotation of pitch to contact pitchers and pitch to contact + awful defense equals lots and lots of unnecessary losses. But you like the idea of awful defense in the outfield so that’s cool it will cost them a lot of games though
So you're fine with one bad OFer?
Why can't it be Herrera then? He has a much better OPS than Burleson.
That would be fine. I just don’t won’t to see two terrible outfielders with a pitch to contact staff that would be awful and cost them a lot of games. I would prefer three good outfielders but that’s not really a realistic expectation.
I think the play is to work out IH at catcher and left field. Burleson, OF, 1B.
And then see what happens. You never know.
We will see what happens it will be bad defense if they are in the same outfield together really bad
I think you are a little doom and gloom.
In 2025, Walker has 97 starts in the OF. Burleson 72. While not ideal, the sky didn't fall.
And here's your stance: "No, Herrera can't play OF because he and Burleson, together, will be bad."
We have no idea if AB or WC has an injury. Maybe AB struggles. Maybe we want to make AB available for a trade during the season and he's traded.
There is simply no reason now to poo poo, in Sept 2025, Herrera becoming more flexible in 2026.
That play by walker is exactly why you don’t want two of those poor defensive outfielders every day in the outfield you can survive with one but two will kill you
Case in point: is Herrera catching now? No. He started only 13 games and, though he had injuries, they haven’t put him back there.
If IH and AB in the OF is a sh show, it won’t last.
You are thinking too short term: “oh no! What will the OF be like in April, 2026?!!!”
Who cares. We have no idea what the team makeup will be by then.
Your thoughts. Herrera in left, risk shoddy play, or catch, and risk leg injuries.
Please reply in complete sentences.
I asked what your thoughts were on Herrera playing left field and risking shoddy play; or catching, and risking reoccurring leg injuries.
ramfandan wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 07:55 am
8 homeruns in September by Herrera.
YES, he is a keeper. This guy can flat out hit and has excellent power. Now the debate can begin as to where to play him but only a fool would not want a player in your lineup that can hit 8 homeruns in one month ..20 HR plus ability for a season
well, considering that many pitchers are worn out by Sept, hitters should be able to capitalize; as to your point : "can hit 8 homeruns in one month ..20 HR"--that translates into 2 homers a month from April to August, which doesn't make him Cal Raleigh
If the defensive-clunky LFer Walker had an .850 OPS right now, would that be a problem to you?
It depends on who is on left. If that person sucks then yea it would be a problem if they want to win. The cardinals aren’t going to magically have a bunch of strike out pitchers next season. They will have a rotation of pitch to contact pitchers and pitch to contact + awful defense equals lots and lots of unnecessary losses. But you like the idea of awful defense in the outfield so that’s cool it will cost them a lot of games though
So you're fine with one bad OFer?
Why can't it be Herrera then? He has a much better OPS than Burleson.
That would be fine. I just don’t won’t to see two terrible outfielders with a pitch to contact staff that would be awful and cost them a lot of games. I would prefer three good outfielders but that’s not really a realistic expectation.
I think the play is to work out IH at catcher and left field. Burleson, OF, 1B.
And then see what happens. You never know.
We will see what happens it will be bad defense if they are in the same outfield together really bad
I think you are a little doom and gloom.
In 2025, Walker has 97 starts in the OF. Burleson 72. While not ideal, the sky didn't fall.
And here's your stance: "No, Herrera can't play OF because he and Burleson, together, will be bad."
We have no idea if AB or WC has an injury. Maybe AB struggles. Maybe we want to make AB available for a trade during the season and he's traded.
There is simply no reason now to poo poo, in Sept 2025, Herrera becoming more flexible in 2026.
That play by walker is exactly why you don’t want two of those poor defensive outfielders every day in the outfield you can survive with one but two will kill you
Case in point: is Herrera catching now? No. He started only 13 games and, though he had injuries, they haven’t put him back there.
If IH and AB in the OF is a sh show, it won’t last.
You are thinking too short term: “oh no! What will the OF be like in April, 2026?!!!”
Who cares. We have no idea what the team makeup will be by then.
Your thoughts. Herrera in left, risk shoddy play, or catch, and risk leg injuries.
Please reply in complete sentences.
I asked what your thoughts were on Herrera playing left field and risking shoddy play; or catching, and risking reoccurring leg injuries.
Here's the thing: If a player is not good at a defensive position, the org will stop playing that player there.
Also, outfield will be less of a strain than catcher.
