Group A and Group B lines at camp today

[b-a-a-a-rclay]

It is wild to me that we keep writing off Dvorsky and interpreting all tea leaves as the Blues writing off Dvorsky.

Guys, I don't know how many times I need to say this but Dvorsky is fully on track. And he's going to be a center. And he's going to get himself up in the conversation with Thomas as who's the best center on the Blues, in a relatively short time for someone who is currently age 20.

Carbo may make the team but they play different positions. They are on two separate measurements. One of the silver linings to a prospect not knowing where his limits are is sometimes, given an opportunity to push it to the hilt, they succeed and make a leap faster than they would have otherwise. It's rare but it happens with certain players and that could indeed be the case with Carbo. I coveted him before the draft because I saw this rare thing in his play when I focused on it. Dvorsky is a whole separate thing and he is definitively our top prospect. What is happening is the sculpture, which is going to be sweet, is 90% finished. So he looks unfinished, which he is. But he has so many tools and skills. Don't make the mistake of overlooking what Dvorsky is going to be.

I think people got confused by the Blues starting Dvorsky on the wing in camp. I think they started him there because they wanted to give him a legitimate shot at making the team as the 3W. Suter and Bjugstad made a center role very unlikely. However, as you are pointing out, they still see him as their top 6 center of the future. He worked on faceoffs post practice again today. In the Blues' mind, he is a center.

[Harry York 37]

Thanks to everyone reporting what they see at camp. Annually for those of us who follow closely but can't be there to witness camp, we depend on tidbits at this time of year

It is sort of looking like two of three spots to Joseph, Texier, Carbonneau, with Carbo on the outside looking in but getting his chances to claim it earlier than everyone expects. Worst case is he goes back to Boyband-Bye-Bye-Bye with a feeling like he is on the cusp of actually making the NHL. At the end of the day I believe the Snuggy-Mailloux rookie duo integration will mean they don't want two rookie RWs at once integrating. Everyone knows I am riding this Carbo train (except my current metabolism) but I just can't bring myself to believe it's going to happen.

Carbo has flashed that he has huge upside. Gonna have to round out his complete game is all we will be waiting on. OK. Just a couple other thoughts ... either Bjugstad or Sunny starts as your 4th line center (I am leaning Bjugstad currently from what I am observing) but the other one could rotate into that 3W role depending on the matchup.
One observation from today's practice. In a 3 on 2 forechecking drill from the top of the circle to the endboards (so tight space) once Dvorsky got the puck on one rep, he protected the puck at an NHL level and created a scoring chance for himself. A few teammates acknowledged it (shin taps) because it stood out. He continues to work on faceoffs post practice. One other thing is that yesterday in a one on zero drill picking up the puck at the faceoff dot he scored 3 times in a row ... he was the only player who did that. He has slick mits in close ... finisher.

I have said it several times- Dvorsky can stickhandle in a phone booth. There is a great comp to Perron there, as David could do that as well.
His skills and his size and hockey sense have top six written all over them.
He seemed bored most of the time I saw him....

[Harry York 37]

Thanks to everyone reporting what they see at camp. Annually for those of us who follow closely but can't be there to witness camp, we depend on tidbits at this time of year

It is sort of looking like two of three spots to Joseph, Texier, Carbonneau, with Carbo on the outside looking in but getting his chances to claim it earlier than everyone expects. Worst case is he goes back to Boyband-Bye-Bye-Bye with a feeling like he is on the cusp of actually making the NHL. At the end of the day I believe the Snuggy-Mailloux rookie duo integration will mean they don't want two rookie RWs at once integrating. Everyone knows I am riding this Carbo train (except my current metabolism) but I just can't bring myself to believe it's going to happen.

Carbo has flashed that he has huge upside. Gonna have to round out his complete game is all we will be waiting on. OK. Just a couple other thoughts ... either Bjugstad or Sunny starts as your 4th line center (I am leaning Bjugstad currently from what I am observing) but the other one could rotate into that 3W role depending on the matchup.
One observation from today's practice. In a 3 on 2 forechecking drill from the top of the circle to the endboards (so tight space) once Dvorsky got the puck on one rep, he protected the puck at an NHL level and created a scoring chance for himself. A few teammates acknowledged it (shin taps) because it stood out. He continues to work on faceoffs post practice. One other thing is that yesterday in a one on zero drill picking up the puck at the faceoff dot he scored 3 times in a row ... he was the only player who did that. He has slick mits in close ... finisher.

I have said it several times- Dvorsky can stickhandle in a phone booth. There is a great comp to Perron there, as David could do that as well.
His skills and his size and hockey sense have top six written all over them.
He seemed bored most of the time I saw him....

It may not mean much. Moose DuPont looked half asleep most every game.

[STL fan in MN]

I tend to not get too worked up over training camp lines but to me this suggests today and maybe a couple more days will be Joseph’s audition for the 3RW role.

Once they cut down the roster and need fewer total lines, I’d expect both Bjugstad and Sunny to be tried in that role as well. But as of now, they still need both at C to make cohesive lines.

The early break-camp line-pairing leaders are apparent, no real surprises.

I wonder if Jiricek is playing his way out of juniors?

Maybe? Personally, I’m hoping to see him go back to Jrs but maybe I’ll have a different opinion when camp is over. He seems close from a skill/talent standpoint but he’s missed so many games the last 2 seasons and even though he’s gained 25 lbs, he’s still only at 185 lbs. He was still getting rocked in Jrs last year. IMO, it’d be best for him to try to dominate Jrs, play 25+ min a night in all situations than go to the AHL, play 3rd pairing minutes with plenty of healthy scratches likely thrown in as well. He just needs games and to stay healthy. I don’t think the AHL is the best place for that.

Jiricek gained 25lbs this summer?

As kimzey said, it’s 25 lbs since he was drafted. So since June 2024. Here’s the full quote from the PD:

Jiricek was up to 185 pounds, a 25-pound gain from when the Blues took him with the 16th pick more than a year ago.

So that means Jiricek was 160 lbs when drafted. Given how skinny he looked up on stage that day, I believe it.

A 25 lb gain is very nice but 185 lbs at 6’3” is still pretty darn skinny. Given his need to continue to pack on pounds and that he’s missed a majority of the last 2 seasons, I wouldn’t throw him into the AHL yet this season. He might do ok but could also spell disaster. He needs reps and Brantford will be loaded this season (with or without him). It’s a fantastic environment for him. One last year of Jrs and then have him turn pro a year from now. That’s what I’d do anyway.

[b-a-a-a-rclay]

Harry ... It's funny that you say that about Dvo looking bored. I notice that even here. At one time the thought crossed my mind that maybe they told him that he's going back to the Ahl. But then yesterday he actually had a moderately animated reaction (to a goal he scored) and then it happened again today as he escaped pressure and cleared a puck. BTW ... Buch is a totally different guy this year compared to last in that regard. He was having a blast yesterday. I think it will show in his play. Buch did not like the Bannister system at all.

[STL fan in MN]

You can't imagine how the speed of the NHL will translate when those guys go back to juniors. We need to give them some meaningful NHL minutes this year, then send them back. They are both eligible for the WJC this Christmas. Army likes our guys getting exposure in that tournament.

Why do we need to give them that? Why should we risk losing vets on waivers to temporarily play teenagers that clearly aren’t fully NHL ready yet?

The Blues are pretty clearly trying to win this season. They’re not going to keep and play teenagers unless they’re actually the better alternative and the plan is for them to stay. I see the odds of that happening to be very very low.

I dont think we can ascertain that Carbonneau is "clearly not fully NHL ready yet". IF Monty feels like Carbonneau is a better option now vs Texier then Carbonneau should play. Jiricek is either going to Springfield or Brantford my guess now is its the AHL. Jiricek doesnt look like another OHL stint will be on any benefit. But the other big factor is, how are these guys doing in practice every day the coaching staff will know whats the best direction for the team

I disagree with you on both topics.

I’m the one saying Carbo clearly isn’t NHL ready. That’s my assessment based on what I’ve seen. Maybe Monty and Army will see it differently but just to clarify, I’m saying that’s my assessment of the situation. He has clear talent but completely lacking in all the details and fundamentals. I see absolutely no benefit or even a need to rush him to the NHL and potentially stunt his growth. And no, he doesn’t just need to beat Texier for the 14th forward job to earn a spot IMO. It makes no sense to keep him as the 14th forward. Or 13th. Or 4th liner. I simply think many here are way way overestimating his chances of making the team. He’s not close. At all. IMO.

How have you come to the conclusion Jiricek wouldn’t benefit from more OHL time? He put up a whopping 12 pts in the OHL last season. It would greatly benefit him to play 25+ min/night in all situations, continue to try to bulk up a bit etc before trying his hand at N.A. pro hockey. He might be about AHL ready from a skills standpoint but with how many games he’s missed and him still only being at 185 lbs, I just don’t see him as ready or it being a good idea to send him to the AHL at 19. A young 19 too.

[LGB73]

It is wild to me that we keep writing off Dvorsky and interpreting all tea leaves as the Blues writing off Dvorsky.

Guys, I don't know how many times I need to say this but Dvorsky is fully on track. And he's going to be a center. And he's going to get himself up in the conversation with Thomas as who's the best center on the Blues, in a relatively short time for someone who is currently age 20.

Carbo may make the team but they play different positions. They are on two separate measurements. One of the silver linings to a prospect not knowing where his limits are is sometimes, given an opportunity to push it to the hilt, they succeed and make a leap faster than they would have otherwise. It's rare but it happens with certain players and that could indeed be the case with Carbo. I coveted him before the draft because I saw this rare thing in his play when I focused on it. Dvorsky is a whole separate thing and he is definitively our top prospect. What is happening is the sculpture, which is going to be sweet, is 90% finished. So he looks unfinished, which he is. But he has so many tools and skills. Don't make the mistake of overlooking what Dvorsky is going to be.

I think people got confused by the Blues starting Dvorsky on the wing in camp. I think they started him there because they wanted to give him a legitimate shot at making the team as the 3W. Suter and Bjugstad made a center role very unlikely. However, as you are pointing out, they still see him as their top 6 center of the future. He worked on faceoffs post practice again today. In the Blues' mind, he is a center.

Team definitely needs him to be 2C in the near future, but not this year. I think the team should plug him in at 3RW to get him NHL experience. If there is doubts about his ability to play 3RW better than Joseph then that's quite concerning to me on whether he's got what it takes to be a 2C at this level. 3RW should be a cake walk for someone we are looking to center our 2nd line and already played at a high level in the AHL at center.

[STL fan in MN]

It is wild to me that we keep writing off Dvorsky and interpreting all tea leaves as the Blues writing off Dvorsky.

Guys, I don't know how many times I need to say this but Dvorsky is fully on track. And he's going to be a center. And he's going to get himself up in the conversation with Thomas as who's the best center on the Blues, in a relatively short time for someone who is currently age 20.

Carbo may make the team but they play different positions. They are on two separate measurements. One of the silver linings to a prospect not knowing where his limits are is sometimes, given an opportunity to push it to the hilt, they succeed and make a leap faster than they would have otherwise. It's rare but it happens with certain players and that could indeed be the case with Carbo. I coveted him before the draft because I saw this rare thing in his play when I focused on it. Dvorsky is a whole separate thing and he is definitively our top prospect. What is happening is the sculpture, which is going to be sweet, is 90% finished. So he looks unfinished, which he is. But he has so many tools and skills. Don't make the mistake of overlooking what Dvorsky is going to be.

Well said regarding Dvorsky. Agreed he’s right on track with where he should be and I’m also confused by some of the negative comments on him here. I thought he looked pretty good against the Stars too. Not amazing but playing 1C with one of our best wingers (Holloway) and an 18 yr old who’s also very talented (Carbonneau), I thought he looked pretty good overall. One weird drop pass to nobody but that was clearly a misread or someone not being where they were supposed to be for a set play. But he also had a lot of really good give and goes, cycles and puck protections. He seemed to be holding his stick a little tight though. I’d guess he’s putting a lot of pressure on himself but idk.

My guess is he ends up starting in Springfield but I think he’ll spend a good chunk of the season with the Blues. And yes, his future is clearly at C. Might play some wing at first like Thomas did but both he and the Blues clearly see his future at C.

I’m not quite as high on Carbo’s chances but I guess we’ll see. I just don’t see the need to keep him, even for just a 9 game trial. Not unless he’s truly one of the top-9 forwards according to Monty and I just don’t see it tbh. He’s been impressive though and I really really like his future. He’s a gamer for sure. But an 18, almost 19 year old one, that still has a lot to learn to round out his game. I’d be concerned about possibly stunting his development if we rushed him too fast.

[b-a-a-a-rclay]

We can see the limitations in Joseph's game but he's 28 yo and has played in 420 NHL games and is one of the fastest players on the Blues. Dvorsky has played less than 19 minutes in the NHL. The Blues want to get off to a fast start. They will have at least 2 NHL rookies starting on opening night. I don't think it will say anything negative about Dvorsky if he doesn't start here ahead of Joseph (or Sunny or even Texier). They want Dvo to be a center. I think he would have to be unquestionably better than the others to start ahead of them as a winger. It's also why I don't think Carbo starts here. However, if Carbo or Dvo start here, I will be happy because it means that the Blues think they are much further along than I do. That would be great.

[seattleblue]

It is wild to me that we keep writing off Dvorsky and interpreting all tea leaves as the Blues writing off Dvorsky.

Guys, I don't know how many times I need to say this but Dvorsky is fully on track. And he's going to be a center. And he's going to get himself up in the conversation with Thomas as who's the best center on the Blues, in a relatively short time for someone who is currently age 20.

Carbo may make the team but they play different positions. They are on two separate measurements. One of the silver linings to a prospect not knowing where his limits are is sometimes, given an opportunity to push it to the hilt, they succeed and make a leap faster than they would have otherwise. It's rare but it happens with certain players and that could indeed be the case with Carbo. I coveted him before the draft because I saw this rare thing in his play when I focused on it. Dvorsky is a whole separate thing and he is definitively our top prospect. What is happening is the sculpture, which is going to be sweet, is 90% finished. So he looks unfinished, which he is. But he has so many tools and skills. Don't make the mistake of overlooking what Dvorsky is going to be.

Well said regarding Dvorsky. Agreed he’s right on track with where he should be and I’m also confused by some of the negative comments on him here. I thought he looked pretty good against the Stars too. Not amazing but playing 1C with one of our best wingers (Holloway) and an 18 yr old who’s also very talented (Carbonneau), I thought he looked pretty good overall. One weird drop pass to nobody but that was clearly a misread or someone not being where they were supposed to be for a set play. But he also had a lot of really good give and goes, cycles and puck protections. He seemed to be holding his stick a little tight though. I’d guess he’s putting a lot of pressure on himself but idk.

My guess is he ends up starting in Springfield but I think he’ll spend a good chunk of the season with the Blues. And yes, his future is clearly at C. Might play some wing at first like Thomas did but both he and the Blues clearly see his future at C.

I’m not quite as high on Carbo’s chances but I guess we’ll see. I just don’t see the need to keep him, even for just a 9 game trial. Not unless he’s truly one of the top-9 forwards according to Monty and I just don’t see it tbh. He’s been impressive though and I really really like his future. He’s a gamer for sure. But an 18, almost 19 year old one, that still has a lot to learn to round out his game. I’d be concerned about possibly stunting his development if we rushed him too fast.

We are in agreement in Carbo too. He is fueling what he's doing with pure drive rather than pure mastery of details, which he definitely does not have and the NHL for most guys is a bad place to learn. So I am with you on his development. And he's not needed this year, that is the main thing. He would have to definitively be the superior player on repeat for the coaches to make such a decision like keeping him up, that is why I would be shocked. That said, something is clearly going on with him where he is going all out and they're giving him this time to do it. Players like this, they just ask for the chance to show that just maybe they are ready, They can accept a decision that they aren't but they need the chance or they burn inside.

[seattleblue]

has played in 420 NHL games and is one of the fastest players on the Blues

that reminds me

[Harry York 37]

Harry ... It's funny that you say that about Dvo looking bored. I notice that even here. At one time the thought crossed my mind that maybe they told him that he's going back to the Ahl. But then yesterday he actually had a moderately animated reaction (to a goal he scored) and then it happened again today as he escaped pressure and cleared a puck. BTW ... Buch is a totally different guy this year compared to last in that regard. He was having a blast yesterday. I think it will show in his play. Buch did not like the Bannister system at all.

Agreed all around Barc.
I must say that Dvo has rarely, if ever, appeared as a “wearing his heart on his sleeve” guy. He always looks cool and controlled. Perhaps that’s why he often appears “slow”.
He has been magical at every level of Ice Hockey he has played in. It could that this confidence reigns in any unnecessary emotions and movements.

Buchnevich will show all the haters that they need schoolin’ this season.
Moving to center for a full year to dig pucks out and do all the dirty work for a brat ( and superstar) who sulked and kept his uniform spotless for at least the first half of that year would sour anyone.
Buch kept his mouth shut and did his job. No one has more assists and no one has accounted for more points in Blues playoff games since he walked into the clubhouse.

Last year when he missed games….we sucked. You can look that up.
He does the dirty work and his skills are top-notch. Snuggy will be delighted to be on his line, I predict.

[STL fan in MN]

It is wild to me that we keep writing off Dvorsky and interpreting all tea leaves as the Blues writing off Dvorsky.

Guys, I don't know how many times I need to say this but Dvorsky is fully on track. And he's going to be a center. And he's going to get himself up in the conversation with Thomas as who's the best center on the Blues, in a relatively short time for someone who is currently age 20.

Carbo may make the team but they play different positions. They are on two separate measurements. One of the silver linings to a prospect not knowing where his limits are is sometimes, given an opportunity to push it to the hilt, they succeed and make a leap faster than they would have otherwise. It's rare but it happens with certain players and that could indeed be the case with Carbo. I coveted him before the draft because I saw this rare thing in his play when I focused on it. Dvorsky is a whole separate thing and he is definitively our top prospect. What is happening is the sculpture, which is going to be sweet, is 90% finished. So he looks unfinished, which he is. But he has so many tools and skills. Don't make the mistake of overlooking what Dvorsky is going to be.

Well said regarding Dvorsky. Agreed he’s right on track with where he should be and I’m also confused by some of the negative comments on him here. I thought he looked pretty good against the Stars too. Not amazing but playing 1C with one of our best wingers (Holloway) and an 18 yr old who’s also very talented (Carbonneau), I thought he looked pretty good overall. One weird drop pass to nobody but that was clearly a misread or someone not being where they were supposed to be for a set play. But he also had a lot of really good give and goes, cycles and puck protections. He seemed to be holding his stick a little tight though. I’d guess he’s putting a lot of pressure on himself but idk.

My guess is he ends up starting in Springfield but I think he’ll spend a good chunk of the season with the Blues. And yes, his future is clearly at C. Might play some wing at first like Thomas did but both he and the Blues clearly see his future at C.

I’m not quite as high on Carbo’s chances but I guess we’ll see. I just don’t see the need to keep him, even for just a 9 game trial. Not unless he’s truly one of the top-9 forwards according to Monty and I just don’t see it tbh. He’s been impressive though and I really really like his future. He’s a gamer for sure. But an 18, almost 19 year old one, that still has a lot to learn to round out his game. I’d be concerned about possibly stunting his development if we rushed him too fast.

We are in agreement in Carbo too. He is fueling what he's doing with pure drive rather than pure mastery of details, which he definitely does not have and the NHL for most guys is a bad place to learn. So I am with you on his development. And he's not needed this year, that is the main thing. He would have to definitively be the superior player on repeat for the coaches to make such a decision like keeping him up, that is why I would be shocked. That said, something is clearly going on with him where he is going all out and they're giving him this time to do it. Players like this, they just ask for the chance to show that just maybe they are ready, They can accept a decision that they aren't but they need the chance or they burn inside.

Fair enough. The drive is clearly there. At the end of the day, I don’t see Carbo being so good that it basically forces the Blues to trade/waive/demote others to make the necessary room for him but I guess we’ll see.

Injuries in the next week could change the calculus as well. Hoping nothing like that happens but you never know. As discussed, Snuggy went down today but it appears he’ll be fine. But if something like that happens and a guy is out a couple weeks even…it opens the door ever so slightly.

[STL fan in MN]

Harry ... It's funny that you say that about Dvo looking bored. I notice that even here. At one time the thought crossed my mind that maybe they told him that he's going back to the Ahl. But then yesterday he actually had a moderately animated reaction (to a goal he scored) and then it happened again today as he escaped pressure and cleared a puck. BTW ... Buch is a totally different guy this year compared to last in that regard. He was having a blast yesterday. I think it will show in his play. Buch did not like the Bannister system at all.

Agreed all around Barc.
I must say that Dvo has rarely, if ever, appeared as a “wearing his heart on his sleeve” guy. He always looks cool and controlled. Perhaps that’s why he often appears “slow”.
He has been magical at every level of Ice Hockey he has played in. It could that this confidence reigns in any unnecessary emotions and movements.

Buchnevich will show all the haters that they need schoolin’ this season.
Moving to center for a full year to dig pucks out and do all the dirty work for a brat ( and superstar) who sulked and kept his uniform spotless for at least the first half of that year would sour anyone.

Last year when he missed games….we sucked. You can look that up.
He does the dirty work and his skills are top-notch. Snuggy will be delighted to be on his line, I predict.

I think you two are looking way too far into this and mistaking a calm and cool personality for boredom or that he doesn’t care etc.

He simply seems like a calm and cool type to me. Or maybe his personality will shine through more eventually but as the young guy, he’s currently trying to keep his head down and focus on the task at hand. That’s not boredom or not giving full effort or anything like that IMO.

[Mr.Snuggleupagus]

So if he now becomes an NHL winger, where do you stack him with the current depth?

1. Buchnevich
2. Halloway
3. Kyrou
4. Snuggerud
5. Neighbors
6. Carbo
7. Dvo?

Stenberg hasn’t played center in 4 years.
He’s a LW.

Eventually, he’ll push either Buch or Jake out.


Carbonneau is a RW and he will eventually give us a good 3 layered attack on the right side.

Buchnevich & Kyrou are ok but aren't needed; they don't move the needle and eat up 16+ million in salary.

Buchnevich shouldn't of been extended (traded for assets) and Kyrou should've been traded.

(my opinion of course)

[seattleblue]

What's being unobserved about Dvorsky's on ice demeanor, which I see in him, is he expects to be the best out of 10 skaters out there. I feel like that's intrinsic to what I'm seeing when I watch him, as if it's fundamental to his understanding of the game that he is the responsible centerpiece. He plays under control.