Arenado confession

[Melville]

Despite not having superstar offensive output, having Arenado back at 3rd is a huge positive. He is top 3 all-time defensively @ 3rd! Hope he is a Cardinal next year!

I wish only the best for everyone.
Can't help it - that is simply who I am.
But sentimentality is never a helpful substitute for a fact based, data supported plan of action.
N/A has had a fine career.
But he is a follower, not a leader.
He has a long history of placing his own interests above the good of the team.
And his best days are long behind him.
His gifted glove at 3B does not change that reality.
His presence next season would have a huge net negative impact on the team - just as it has this year.
He should have gone to Houston when STL traded him there.
He knows that.
Which is why he has recently expressed his eagerness to get out of town.
It is over for him in STL and has been for a while now.

Maybe he had a vision that Cleveland would grab
the last WC spot.
Then he'd be looking for yet another better team.

Does he REALLY want to play for a better team?
Does he REALLY want an opportunity to compete in the playoffs?
Or does he simply want to get paid to make a bare handed play every now and then in front of local adoring fans - without being burdened with the expectations that come by being in the lineup of a high profile team which is nationally viewed as a legitimate threat to win a WS?
Currently, indications suggest the latter.
We shall see.

There is also the possibility that he lives in STL and has kid(s). Maybe his family likes it there. Maybe they want to move back to CA as the other choice. Sometimes we forget these guys are humans with families too. I don't know any details, but neither do any of the rest of us. It is not all about baseball all the time. Life is a compromise between work and family needs.

Your last line is spot on.
I once turned down an invitation to be the national trainer for corporation with hundreds of locations around the country because I had school age kids at the time and did not want to travel 75% of the time.
Of course, MLB players travel over 60% of the time from late February/early March through the beginning of October (even longer for good teams), so I doubt that is a consideration for N/A.

[Pura Vida]

Despite not having superstar offensive output, having Arenado back at 3rd is a huge positive. He is top 3 all-time defensively @ 3rd! Hope he is a Cardinal next year!

I wish only the best for everyone.
Can't help it - that is simply who I am.
But sentimentality is never a helpful substitute for a fact based, data supported plan of action.
N/A has had a fine career.
But he is a follower, not a leader.
He has a long history of placing his own interests above the good of the team.
And his best days are long behind him.
His gifted glove at 3B does not change that reality.
His presence next season would have a huge net negative impact on the team - just as it has this year.
He should have gone to Houston when STL traded him there.
He knows that.
Which is why he has recently expressed his eagerness to get out of town.
It is over for him in STL and has been for a while now.

Maybe he had a vision that Cleveland would grab
the last WC spot.
Then he'd be looking for yet another better team.

Does he REALLY want to play for a better team?
Does he REALLY want an opportunity to compete in the playoffs?
Or does he simply want to get paid to make a bare handed play every now and then in front of local adoring fans - without being burdened with the expectations that come by being in the lineup of a high profile team which is nationally viewed as a legitimate threat to win a WS?
Currently, indications suggest the latter.
We shall see.

There is also the possibility that he lives in STL and has kid(s). Maybe his family likes it there. Maybe they want to move back to CA as the other choice. Sometimes we forget these guys are humans with families too. I don't know any details, but neither do any of the rest of us. It is not all about baseball all the time. Life is a compromise between work and family needs.

THIS!
I'm amazed that there is zero loyalty today. The Cardinals offered him a contract and he accepted. If you're looking who is at fault...look at the front office. And Arenado turning down Houston....you ever live in Houston? Sorry but no thanks!

[bccardsfan]

Despite not having superstar offensive output, having Arenado back at 3rd is a huge positive. He is top 3 all-time defensively @ 3rd! Hope he is a Cardinal next year!

I wish only the best for everyone.
Can't help it - that is simply who I am.
But sentimentality is never a helpful substitute for a fact based, data supported plan of action.
N/A has had a fine career.
But he is a follower, not a leader.
He has a long history of placing his own interests above the good of the team.
And his best days are long behind him.
His gifted glove at 3B does not change that reality.
His presence next season would have a huge net negative impact on the team - just as it has this year.
He should have gone to Houston when STL traded him there.
He knows that.
Which is why he has recently expressed his eagerness to get out of town.
It is over for him in STL and has been for a while now.

Maybe he had a vision that Cleveland would grab
the last WC spot.
Then he'd be looking for yet another better team.

Does he REALLY want to play for a better team?
Does he REALLY want an opportunity to compete in the playoffs?
Or does he simply want to get paid to make a bare handed play every now and then in front of local adoring fans - without being burdened with the expectations that come by being in the lineup of a high profile team which is nationally viewed as a legitimate threat to win a WS?
Currently, indications suggest the latter.
We shall see.

There is also the possibility that he lives in STL and has kid(s). Maybe his family likes it there. Maybe they want to move back to CA as the other choice. Sometimes we forget these guys are humans with families too. I don't know any details, but neither do any of the rest of us. It is not all about baseball all the time. Life is a compromise between work and family needs.

THIS!
I'm amazed that there is zero loyalty today. The Cardinals offered him a contract and he accepted. If you're looking who is at fault...look at the front office. And Arenado turning down Houston....you ever live in Houston? Sorry but no thanks!

Not to jump on Houston, or Texas, just that people and their families have their preferences, that is all. Some young guys will chase the money and live in places I would never consider for a few million a year more. For me, once I am making tens of millions of dollars I am picking where I want to live as part of the equation. An extra few million doesn't matter as I have more money than I can ever spend anyway. Others have different perspectives. My point was that Arenado was deciding things for his family and not just himself. As to Mel's point above, sure they travel a LOT during the season, but if your home is not in the city whose team you play for, then you are traveling ALL the time during the season and rarely home. That works for guys with no family, but for married guys with kids....

[makesnosense]

I concede that based on his age/salary/productivity it is probably best to deal Arenado.
But....and I know I’ll get roasted for this...in my heart I’d love to see:
Trade- Nootbaar & Gorman
C- Crooks/Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Wetherholt
SS- Winn
3B- Arenado
CF- Scott
Corner OF- Donovan/Burleson/Walker
DH- Herrera
Bench- Saggese and ?

How do we not get a new OF back in return for Noot and Gorman? Or trade for one otherwise?

How about someone like Bryan Reynolds?

With Gorman involved in a trade it would be surprising to get Burt Reynolds.

[Carp4Cy]

I concede that based on his age/salary/productivity it is probably best to deal Arenado.
But....and I know I’ll get roasted for this...in my heart I’d love to see:
Trade- Nootbaar & Gorman
C- Crooks/Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Wetherholt
SS- Winn
3B- Arenado
CF- Scott
Corner OF- Donovan/Burleson/Walker
DH- Herrera
Bench- Saggese and ?

How do we not get a new OF back in return for Noot and Gorman? Or trade for one otherwise?

How about someone like Bryan Reynolds?

With Gorman involved in a trade it would be surprising to get Burt Reynolds.

Anything can happen when the Pirates just want to cut salary. Maybe a 3 way trade though.

[ScotchMIrish]

Based upon recent comments It sounds like he won't be a Cardinal next season.

[ClassicO]

I concede that based on his age/salary/productivity it is probably best to deal Arenado.
But....and I know I’ll get roasted for this...in my heart I’d love to see:
Trade- Nootbaar & Gorman
C- Crooks/Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Wetherholt
SS- Winn
3B- Arenado
CF- Scott
Corner OF- Donovan/Burleson/Walker
DH- Herrera
Bench- Saggese and ?

Nicely done. I am convincing myself that VSII cannot be a starting player for the Cards. Can't. Hit.
And other CFs may not play his high-level defense, a team that desperately needs offense can't afford his bad bat.

[Cusecards]

I concede that based on his age/salary/productivity it is probably best to deal Arenado.
But....and I know I’ll get roasted for this...in my heart I’d love to see:
Trade- Nootbaar & Gorman
C- Crooks/Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Wetherholt
SS- Winn
3B- Arenado
CF- Scott
Corner OF- Donovan/Burleson/Walker
DH- Herrera
Bench- Saggese and ?

Nicely done. I am convincing myself that VSII cannot be a starting player for the Cards. Can't. Hit.
And other CFs may not play his high-level defense, a team that desperately needs offense can't afford his bad bat.

Obviously the jury is still out on Scott.
Just one full season.
Defense and speed are clearly there.
Question- can he develop enough plate discipline to be a factor offensively?
I agree that for a team in need of offense it can be tough to justify his current production.
Fingers crossed that he improves enough at the plate!

[ClassicO]

I concede that based on his age/salary/productivity it is probably best to deal Arenado.
But....and I know I’ll get roasted for this...in my heart I’d love to see:
Trade- Nootbaar & Gorman
C- Crooks/Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Wetherholt
SS- Winn
3B- Arenado
CF- Scott
Corner OF- Donovan/Burleson/Walker
DH- Herrera
Bench- Saggese and ?

Nicely done. I am convincing myself that VSII cannot be a starting player for the Cards. Can't. Hit.
And other CFs may not play his high-level defense, a team that desperately needs offense can't afford his bad bat.

Obviously the jury is still out on Scott.
Just one full season.
Defense and speed are clearly there.
Question- can he develop enough plate discipline to be a factor offensively?
I agree that for a team in need of offense it can be tough to justify his current production.
Fingers crossed that he improves enough at the plate!

I hope they ALL improve their hitting.
I see people advocate for Scott because he has a positive fWAR of 1.7. The fallacy of that is that fWAR provides a positional adjustment that heavily favors centerfielders over LF or RF. So Scott's war of 1.7 is 15th among 28 centerfielders with >400 PAs. So he's in the middle.

Almost all of the top 10 CFs in fWAR are going to the playoffs (not Buxton).
They likely expect Winn to be the SS next year, and he's another great-defense/poor-offense. Can a team that has no superstars at other positions have the luxury of two poor hitters? I expect Winn to hit much better -- because he has a good history of hitting prior to MLB.
Scott has never hit well, so I don't expect much better. This was the year they changed his stance, etc., so what is he missing?

[stlbirdlover]

I concede that based on his age/salary/productivity it is probably best to deal Arenado.
But....and I know I’ll get roasted for this...in my heart I’d love to see:
Trade- Nootbaar & Gorman
C- Crooks/Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Wetherholt
SS- Winn
3B- Arenado
CF- Scott
Corner OF- Donovan/Burleson/Walker
DH- Herrera
Bench- Saggese and ?

I’d like to see them move Donovan (big fan) and Burleson (indifferent) with any higher level prospects not named Wetherholt or Doyle, and get a solid starting pitcher. And also add a good starter and RH OF’er, even with a free agency overpay.

Adding two solid starters along with Gray, Liberatore, McGreevy and Quinn Mathews and Doyle on the way puts the rotation in pretty good shape.

Adding a legit (doesn’t have to be a superstar) OFer with a revamped rotation I think would get the team back to playoff contention and at least make it interesting while simultaneously rebuilding the core through draft/development.

This team is already offensively challenged and you want to trade away two of it's best hitters!

[CorneliusWolfe]

I concede that based on his age/salary/productivity it is probably best to deal Arenado.
But....and I know I’ll get roasted for this...in my heart I’d love to see:
Trade- Nootbaar & Gorman
C- Crooks/Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Wetherholt
SS- Winn
3B- Arenado
CF- Scott
Corner OF- Donovan/Burleson/Walker
DH- Herrera
Bench- Saggese and ?

I’d like to see them move Donovan (big fan) and Burleson (indifferent) with any higher level prospects not named Wetherholt or Doyle, and get a solid starting pitcher. And also add a good starter and RH OF’er, even with a free agency overpay.

Adding two solid starters along with Gray, Liberatore, McGreevy and Quinn Mathews and Doyle on the way puts the rotation in pretty good shape.

Adding a legit (doesn’t have to be a superstar) OFer with a revamped rotation I think would get the team back to playoff contention and at least make it interesting while simultaneously rebuilding the core through draft/development.

This team is already offensively challenged and you want to trade away two of it's best hitters!

Yes, for several reasons. An imbalance of LH to RH hitters, positional redundancies, the need to sell high for once, a likely inability to compete much during Donovan’s last two years, Burleson being a 1-tool player who I don’t think we’d get much for but others seem to think so, so again, sell high. WC has a NTC and is a better 1st baseman and RH’d and Ivan Herrera should be the primary DH.

I actually think Burleson’s best value is on our bench due to WC’s age and provides LH 1B platoon and backup DH options.

JJW replaces Donovan because it would be his best position, and more importantly because BD is a good player that could actually bring something back instead of wasting away his last two years while his value plummets because he becomes a rental to a trade partner. If we extend him, it will be for his age 30+ seasons. We haven’t done so well with that.
Also tired of guys playing out of their natural positions.

Two things to note, my scenario includes free agent supplementation, and was before Arenado said he’s moving on. That does create room for Donovan as a stop gap at 3rd, but his power doesn’t exactly play at the position.

[Cusecards]

I concede that based on his age/salary/productivity it is probably best to deal Arenado.
But....and I know I’ll get roasted for this...in my heart I’d love to see:
Trade- Nootbaar & Gorman
C- Crooks/Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Wetherholt
SS- Winn
3B- Arenado
CF- Scott
Corner OF- Donovan/Burleson/Walker
DH- Herrera
Bench- Saggese and ?

Nicely done. I am convincing myself that VSII cannot be a starting player for the Cards. Can't. Hit.
And other CFs may not play his high-level defense, a team that desperately needs offense can't afford his bad bat.

Obviously the jury is still out on Scott.
Just one full season.
Defense and speed are clearly there.
Question- can he develop enough plate discipline to be a factor offensively?
I agree that for a team in need of offense it can be tough to justify his current production.
Fingers crossed that he improves enough at the plate!

I hope they ALL improve their hitting.
I see people advocate for Scott because he has a positive fWAR of 1.7. The fallacy of that is that fWAR provides a positional adjustment that heavily favors centerfielders over LF or RF. So Scott's war of 1.7 is 15th among 28 centerfielders with >400 PAs. So he's in the middle.

Almost all of the top 10 CFs in fWAR are going to the playoffs (not Buxton).
They likely expect Winn to be the SS next year, and he's another great-defense/poor-offense. Can a team that has no superstars at other positions have the luxury of two poor hitters? I expect Winn to hit much better -- because he has a good history of hitting prior to MLB.
Scott has never hit well, so I don't expect much better. This was the year they changed his stance, etc., so what is he missing?

Obviously I’m not a hitting coach but considering his electric speed I would think:
Hit more ground balls. He should get a ton of IF hits.
Plate discipline.
And when it comes to plate discipline Gorman is worse than Scott by far!