Maybe I'm behind the times

[ScotchMIrish]

I think there is far too much emphasis on analytics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Bloom

The franchise had been one of the most innovative under his management; he integrated analytics into all aspects of the game. He was an early user of breakthrough strategies, now more widely used, such as a much heavier emphasis on shifts and the use of openers (starting games with relief pitchers).

I think we need a baseball man as manager and not someone who is proficient with a computer. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[imadangman]

Analytics is such an umbrella term, especially for the anti-analytics crowd. There are different categories of analytics. They're also up to interpretation. And you can place levels of importance on things anywhere between 1-99, it doesn’t have to be 0 or 100. However the Cardinals have misinterpreted their analytics should be an indictment on them, not the analytics. Baseball is a business, can you think of any other business sector where you would say it's advantageous to throw "analytics" out the window?

[ScotchMIrish]

Analytics is such an umbrella term. There are different categories of analytics. It's also up to interpretation. However the Cardinals have misinterpreted their analytics should be an indictment on them, not the analytics. Baseball is a business, can you think of any other business sector where you would say it's advantageous to throw "analytics" out the window?

Listening on the radio I hear the announcers astounded at the lack of fundamentals. I believe Marmol was hired because he never played the game at a high level and will rely on analytics. I suspect he will be kept but if replace it will be by someone with a similar mindset.

[imadangman]

Analytics is such an umbrella term. There are different categories of analytics. It's also up to interpretation. However the Cardinals have misinterpreted their analytics should be an indictment on them, not the analytics. Baseball is a business, can you think of any other business sector where you would say it's advantageous to throw "analytics" out the window?

Listening on the radio I hear the announcers astounded at the lack of fundamentals. I believe Marmol was hired because he never played the game at a high level and will rely on analytics. I suspect he will be kept but if replace it will be by someone with a similar mindset.

I hear ya and I don't get to watch many games but it is clear that the emphasis on fundamentals isn't what it needs to be. Games are absolutely won and lost on those margins.

In the midst of it we should be able to establish that it is preferable to have a front office and manager on the same page, instead of being at odds.

Every time we criticize Oli for lineups or pitching changes, I think we leave out the detail of whether or not Oli was actually the decision maker or if it came from top down. Now, that seems to be how most teams operate, even the good ones. Hopefully Bloom is not so stuck up like Mozeliak has been.

[CorneliusWolfe]

I think there is far too much emphasis on analytics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Bloom

The franchise had been one of the most innovative under his management; he integrated analytics into all aspects of the game. He was an early user of breakthrough strategies, now more widely used, such as a much heavier emphasis on shifts and the use of openers (starting games with relief pitchers).

I think we need a baseball man as manager and not someone who is proficient with a computer. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

You’re not behind the times. Analytics = cherry pick and dig up any obscure data you can to support and justify going cheap and sell it to the fans as hope in projections.

“This guy has a 5 ERA but his spin rate compares favorably to the average top 5 Cy Young contenders!”

[ecleme22]

Analytics is such an umbrella term. There are different categories of analytics. It's also up to interpretation. However the Cardinals have misinterpreted their analytics should be an indictment on them, not the analytics. Baseball is a business, can you think of any other business sector where you would say it's advantageous to throw "analytics" out the window?

Listening on the radio I hear the announcers astounded at the lack of fundamentals. I believe Marmol was hired because he never played the game at a high level and will rely on analytics. I suspect he will be kept but if replace it will be by someone with a similar mindset.

You realize analytics isn’t the enemy of fundamentals, right?

[Jatalk]

I think there is far too much emphasis on analytics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Bloom

The franchise had been one of the most innovative under his management; he integrated analytics into all aspects of the game. He was an early user of breakthrough strategies, now more widely used, such as a much heavier emphasis on shifts and the use of openers (starting games with relief pitchers).

I think we need a baseball man as manager and not someone who is proficient with a computer. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I agree but good baseball men know how to balance analytics and their gut feel for game circumstances. You can’t just ignore analytics IMO.

[imadangman]

I think there is far too much emphasis on analytics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Bloom

The franchise had been one of the most innovative under his management; he integrated analytics into all aspects of the game. He was an early user of breakthrough strategies, now more widely used, such as a much heavier emphasis on shifts and the use of openers (starting games with relief pitchers).

I think we need a baseball man as manager and not someone who is proficient with a computer. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

You’re not behind the times. Analytics = cherry pick and dig up any obscure data you can to support and justify going cheap and sell it to the fans as hope in projections.

“This guy has a 5 ERA but his spin rate compares favorably to the average top 5 Cy Young contenders!”

Or it could be like the "cutting edge" things Tony Larussa used to do with his bullpen such as using pitchers differently.

[3dender]

I think there is far too much emphasis on analytics.

...

I think we need a baseball man as manager and not someone who is proficient with a computer. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Is... is that what you think "analytics" is?

That's, uh, not what "analytics" is.

Maybe tell us specifically what you think it is and then we can have a discussion about it? Are you saying you don't think infield shifts are good?

[Ozziesfan41]

Well the current cardinals team is the result of them falling behind in the analytics department which is why they brought bloom in to fix mos mess. Back when the cardinals were good with Lunhow and company they were ahead of the game in the analytics department so sign me up for supporting better analytics

[CorneliusWolfe]

I think there is far too much emphasis on analytics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Bloom

The franchise had been one of the most innovative under his management; he integrated analytics into all aspects of the game. He was an early user of breakthrough strategies, now more widely used, such as a much heavier emphasis on shifts and the use of openers (starting games with relief pitchers).

I think we need a baseball man as manager and not someone who is proficient with a computer. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

You’re not behind the times. Analytics = cherry pick and dig up any obscure data you can to support and justify going cheap and sell it to the fans as hope in projections.

“This guy has a 5 ERA but his spin rate compares favorably to the average top 5 Cy Young contenders!”

Or it could be like the "cutting edge" things Tony Larussa used to do with his bullpen such as using pitchers differently.

From TLR to Siri.

[CorneliusWolfe]

Well the current cardinals team is the result of them falling behind in the analytics department which is why they brought bloom in to fix mos mess. Back when the cardinals were good with Lunhow and company they were ahead of the game in the analytics department so sign me up for supporting better analytics

Was it really even “Luhnow and Company” or TLR/DD? We had Pujols and Yadi but a large part of the WS rosters were veteran free agent acquisitions and midseason veteran trade acquisitions (Rasmus trade comes to mind). We didn’t need analytics to know those dudes could play well enough to fill the necessary gaps.

I’ve still yet to see a championship since the big shift from old-man outdated baseball to the great new cutting edge analytics approach.

[Ozziesfan41]

Well the current cardinals team is the result of them falling behind in the analytics department which is why they brought bloom in to fix mos mess. Back when the cardinals were good with Lunhow and company they were ahead of the game in the analytics department so sign me up for supporting better analytics

Was it really even “Luhnow and Company” or TLR/DD? We had Pujols and Yadi but a large part of the WS rosters were veteran free agent acquisitions and midseason veteran trade acquisitions (Rasmus trade comes to mind). We didn’t need analytics to know those dudes could play well enough to fill the necessary gaps.

I’ve still yet to see a championship since the big shift from old-man outdated baseball to the great new cutting edge analytics approach.

And you wont until they fix the analytics department. There’s a reason the rays are successful on a next to nothing budget there’s a reason the brewers with their low budget are very successful with their analytics department. I’m trying to think of a successful team right now that doesn’t have a good analytics department and can’t think of any

[Melville]

Analytics is such an umbrella term. There are different categories of analytics. It's also up to interpretation. However the Cardinals have misinterpreted their analytics should be an indictment on them, not the analytics. Baseball is a business, can you think of any other business sector where you would say it's advantageous to throw "analytics" out the window?

Listening on the radio I hear the announcers astounded at the lack of fundamentals. I believe Marmol was hired because he never played the game at a high level and will rely on analytics. I suspect he will be kept but if replace it will be by someone with a similar mindset.

You realize analytics isn’t the enemy of fundamentals, right?

In theory, true.
In practice, false.
I am a performance consultant and individual improvement advisor.
The value of analytics is immense.
The best decision making must be data driven in order to make maximum performance possible.
No question.
However, data guides and informs.
It does not execute.
People do.
There is no substitute for human asset development.
In all industries, analytics must be a priority because there can never be a pathway to success with the roadmap data provides.
But it can never be prioritized over the individuals who make the journey.
I largely agree with Irish.
MLB has embraced analytics - but too many prioritize it over executing the fundamentals of the game.
The last 2 years STL was in control of a W/C spot - and faded badly.
Analytics did not fail them.
They failed in executing the fundamentals.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

[CorneliusWolfe]

Well the current cardinals team is the result of them falling behind in the analytics department which is why they brought bloom in to fix mos mess. Back when the cardinals were good with Lunhow and company they were ahead of the game in the analytics department so sign me up for supporting better analytics

Was it really even “Luhnow and Company” or TLR/DD? We had Pujols and Yadi but a large part of the WS rosters were veteran free agent acquisitions and midseason veteran trade acquisitions (Rasmus trade comes to mind). We didn’t need analytics to know those dudes could play well enough to fill the necessary gaps.

I’ve still yet to see a championship since the big shift from old-man outdated baseball to the great new cutting edge analytics approach.

And you wont until they fix the analytics department. There’s a reason the rays are successful on a next to nothing budget there’s a reason the brewers with their low budget are very successful with their analytics department. I’m trying to think of a successful team right now that doesn’t have a good analytics department and can’t think of any

Not sure if our failures are due to a bad analytics department, or just bad trades, bad personnel choices, bad in-game management, an inability to develop young players, and an unwillingness to fill obvious holes. It seems more like basic bad baseball decisions.

Sonny Gray has the elite spin rate, and advanced analytics favor Noot, Gorman and Walker, but the results have obviously not been there. As much as I’m not a a Burleson fan, the analytics say the aforementioned are the keepers, yet he’s outperformed them all.

The right answer probably lies somewhere in between our contrasting assessments.

[rockondlouie]

Like everything in society things always seem to go TOO FAR.

I think we've reached the saturation point in sports where analytics are starting to be seen as simply one tool managers/coaches can use along w/their extensive experience.