We have 4 good hitters. Looking to next year, what do we need to have a great offense?

[Youboughtit]

Our best 4 hitters:

Herrera .284/.371/.829
Contreras .257/.344/.791
Burleson .281/.333/.784
Donovan .283/.351/.760

So basically four .800 OPS guys. What do we need next season to have a great lineup? We know Winn and Pages/Crooks will be in the lineup. Winn should be in the .700-.750 OPS range. Pages/Crooks in the .650 - .700 range. Scott will probably also be in center. I would hope he can get in the .650-.700 range as well next year and get around 50 stolen bases.

So we need 2 more guys for the lineup and they need to be studs. 1 Infielder and 1 outfielder. I don't think Arenado, Gorman, Walker, or Nootbaar are the answer. I think to have a great lineup we just need these two players: Whetherholt and a free agent star (or trade for a star).

Whetherholt I think will be in the .800-.850 OPS range in his first year. The free agent star needs to be an outfielder with an .850 OPS or higher and be a 30+ HR hitter. Good luck finding that. There are only 6 players in MLB with an OPS over .900 this year and 20 over .850. Not a lot of options and also Bloom probably won't be adding a big contract in his first year and a with strike on the way.

So besides Whetherholt, how are we going to get that .850+ star player that can turn our lineup into a great one?

I don’t want to be rude but that is 1 .800 OPS guy including 2 DH only in Burleson and Hererra and Donovan will require a extension or should be traded this off season before his return is diminished because of FA. The answer is trade Arenado Donovan Nootbar Walker and Gorman for pitching and then sign Tucker and Bichette (3B). Then you will have a 6 - .800 OPS guys and more pitching

[cardstatman]

I don't see this team having any chance to be great offensively in 2026.

C Crooks, Pages 50/50
1B Contreras
2B Wetherholt, Torres
SS Winn
3B Arenado/Donovan
LF Burleson/Donovan
CF Scott
RF Church, Fermin
DH Herrera

UT guys who don't play a lot: Fermin, Torres (both high OBP guys with speed but lacking power)

AAA: Walker, Saggese, Prieto
Moving on: Pozo, Koperniak, Siani

1. Trade Nootbar for a RH OF to replace Church or Scott. Fermin stays because we need a 2nd RH OF who doesn't play a lot.
2. Trade Gorman for a prospect. Replace with the super utility Torres.
3. Trade Arenado for nothing and send some cash but if you can't then trade high on Burleson for a SP and move Donovan to LF.

Arenado seems open to being traded now, but I doubt anyone covets him. He should have accepted the Houston trade.

You hope that Wetherholt provide some offense.
You hope to acquire a RH RF who hits much better than Walker.
You hope that Torres, Fermin, and Crooks hit better than and Gorman, Saggese, and Pozo.
You get faster by trading Nootbar, Gorman, and Arenado or Burleson and adding Church, Torres, Fermin
You get faster by swapping Pozo out and Crooks in.
You get better defense by trading Gorman and maybe Burleson and sending Walker to AAA.

This is just a starting point. I hope for some wheelin' and dealin' to create some excitement and a new start.

[StlMike1969]

Guys to be traded this off season:
Donovan - He has earned a paycheck and the team is not ready to offer it since they cannot commit to even a stay at home spot in the field.
Nootbar - I do not believe they really see him as a team pillar like Moz claims. He is mediocre right now and just needs a new team.
Arenado - Recent stories show Arenado understands his fate.
Contreras - He is not as good as the OP or others want him to be. He is blocking playing time and will be made to see the light on waiving the NTC.
Gray - He decides playing for a winner would be best.
Gorman - Below also

Guys to start the season in AAA or that were DFA'ed to clear waivers
Gorman - If not gone in a trade, they will try to get him back into the minors.
Walker - Has one option and stays there until they cannot afford to do so any longer due to his figuring it out finally, or he is gone in minors free agency.

Hopefully through all of this they get 1 or 2 MLB ready players still on the cheap. I do not foresee any big contract players being acquired. They are going to give the team a new look in personnel and it will be mostly low cost, let's see what you got guys. Perhaps other teams high potential, low performing players that need a change of scenery. Roll into the 2027 lockout season and come back out on the other side ready to work under new agreements with some player acquisitions.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Guys to be traded this off season:
Donovan - He has earned a paycheck and the team is not ready to offer it since they cannot commit to even a stay at home spot in the field.
Nootbar - I do not believe they really see him as a team pillar like Moz claims. He is mediocre right now and just needs a new team.
Arenado - Recent stories show Arenado understands his fate.
Contreras - He is not as good as the OP or others want him to be. He is blocking playing time and will be made to see the light on waiving the NTC.
Gray - He decides playing for a winner would be best.
Gorman - Below also

Guys to start the season in AAA or that were DFA'ed to clear waivers
Gorman - If not gone in a trade, they will try to get him back into the minors.
Walker - Has one option and stays there until they cannot afford to do so any longer due to his figuring it out finally, or he is gone in minors free agency.

Hopefully through all of this they get 1 or 2 MLB ready players still on the cheap. I do not foresee any big contract players being acquired. They are going to give the team a new look in personnel and it will be mostly low cost, let's see what you got guys. Perhaps other teams high potential, low performing players that need a change of scenery. Roll into the 2027 lockout season and come back out on the other side ready to work under new agreements with some player acquisitions.

Can’t disagree. Didn’t want to. Donovan I’d keep.

[earp]

We have 4 good hitters. Looking to next year, what do we need to have a great offense?

A lot of the organization’s most talented minor league arms have gone backwards this season. Quinn Mathews could get a look next year but will need to show far better command than he has in Triple-A. Tekoah Roby and Sem Robberse have each undergone Tommy John surgery. Tink Hence has yet to show that he can stay healthy. Fifth overall pick Liam Doyle is now the organization’s clear top pitching prospect but probably won’t be on the MLB radar until the middle of next season at the earliest.

[The Nard]

Many great, competitive teams in the past, would complement their “regulars” with a rent-a-bat, I.e., a veteran with a good track record on a 1-3 year contract. He’d be a middle of the order bat, a DH in today’s game. They would do this season after season.

You all saw what Pujols did for this team in the 2nd half of 2022.

I’m tired of seeing not a few of our prospects who can’t field at a professional level, and thus must share the DH “position” (sic).

[Hazelwood72]

Many great, competitive teams in the past, would complement their “regulars” with a rent-a-bat, I.e., a veteran with a good track record on a 1-3 year contract. He’d be a middle of the order bat, a DH in today’s game. They would do this season after season.

You all saw what Pujols did for this team in the 2nd half of 2022.

I’m tired of seeing not a few of our prospects who can’t field at a professional level, and thus must share the DH “position” (sic).

Agree. I am also tired of all the “can’t miss” prospects who “can’t field” and “can’t run”. Clear evidence that Mozo the Clown, Randy Flores, Oily Marmot, and the entire Cards management team and coaching staff must be sacked.

[Nadam23]

We have 4 good hitters. Looking to next year, what do we need to have a great offense?

A lot of the organization’s most talented minor league arms have gone backwards this season. Quinn Mathews could get a look next year but will need to show far better command than he has in Triple-A. Tekoah Roby and Sem Robberse have each undergone Tommy John surgery. Tink Hence has yet to show that he can stay healthy. Fifth overall pick Liam Doyle is now the organization’s clear top pitching prospect but probably won’t be on the MLB radar until the middle of next season at the earliest.

Hopefully Matthews fixes his control problem he had this year. If he does, by the end of next year our rotation could be (barring a trade of Gray):

Gray
Liberatore
Doyle
Matthews
Mcgreevy

I would take that. Or sign/trade for a starter to replace one of the young two if they aren't ready. 3 guys with plus strikeout stuff and Liberatore/Mcgreevy being another year developed.

[nebfan]

I see a lot of talk about trading Donovan. Why? He is arguably the best hitter we have and should be locked up for 5 years. I think we can get more for Winn, Saggesse is just as good or better a hitter and plays good SS and you have Weatherholt coming also a SS. I would like to see Winn go and maybe get a center fielder that can hit.

[Nadam23]

I see a lot of talk about trading Donovan. Why? He is arguably the best hitter we have and should be locked up for 5 years. I think we can get more for Winn, Saggesse is just as good or better a hitter and plays good SS and you have Weatherholt coming also a SS. I would like to see Winn go and maybe get a center fielder that can hit.

Cuz Donovan is going to cost a lot of money soon.

[bccardsfan]

I see a lot of talk about trading Donovan. Why? He is arguably the best hitter we have and should be locked up for 5 years. I think we can get more for Winn, Saggesse is just as good or better a hitter and plays good SS and you have Weatherholt coming also a SS. I would like to see Winn go and maybe get a center fielder that can hit.

Ummm because Saggese cannot carry Winn's lunch defensively at SS. I have not seen JJ play SS. I suspect he is at least MLB average on D, but that remains to be seen. Saggese is not your starting SS on a good defensive team. Winn is the defensive piece you build the infield around in my opinion. If he hits above .250 and hits 10 dingers that is a bonus. He saves runs. He is one of the top defensive SS in baseball and he is just getting started. Ozzie could barely hit his weight when he started, and he became a decent hitter. Winn will do the same. I love Donnie, but as was said above, he will become expensive and he is probably valued by other teams. So you have to listen to offers. I would prefer he remain a Cardinal, but we shall see. We need pitching and a good hitting corner OFer. We have a surplus at minor league catcher that can be dealt, but Donnie is a valuable trade chip. Noot is not. Burley... maybe some return. Gorman and Walker have little value right now so you may as well stash them in AAA if they cannot cut it in the bigs. Unless someone blows you away with a good return on one or both. So Donnie is probably your best trade chip. Keep Winn. My 2 cents.

[StlMike1969]

I see a lot of talk about trading Donovan. Why? He is arguably the best hitter we have and should be locked up for 5 years. I think we can get more for Winn, Saggesse is just as good or better a hitter and plays good SS and you have Weatherholt coming also a SS. I would like to see Winn go and maybe get a center fielder that can hit.

Cuz Donovan is going to cost a lot of money soon.

Donovan is probably going to warrant a $15 to $20 mill average from some team on a 5 to 6 year deal that is willing to commit to him at a set position, most likely 2nd base. He knows this, his agent knows this and the team knows this. The team is not going to be willing to commit that far and that heavy with Wetherholt on the way and Saggese showing he can provide almost similar results much cheaper and longer. Any position other than 2nd base is going to be looked at for higher slugging numbers. Donovan really is more of a solid 5 to 7 hole hitter in a stacked lineup. Capable of .280, 15 to 20 HR's in a fully healthy season consistently with gold glove caliber defense. This team is not ready for the contract or the player right now. That's why

[CorneliusWolfe]

We have 4 good hitters. Looking to next year:
Who do you build you winning team around?

None are worth building around, but that makes me a hater

You’re not alone in the hater club. We have some role players but agree there are none to really build around long term.

[renostl]

We have 4 good hitters. Looking to next year:
Who do you build you winning team around?

None are worth building around, but that makes me a hater

You’re not alone in the hater club. We have some role players but agree there are none to really build around long term.

Not a hater at all for that view.
Hater is saying nobody has any value.

[Braund241]

If they have 4 good hitters, why do they usually score 1 or two runs a game. They have 0 good hitters. Maybe 2 ok hitters and the rest are minor league junk. Face it the roster is horrible. No playoff team would want any of these guys. And if they bring out the same bunch next year, how sad. That’s not competitive at any level.

[Nadam23]

If they have 4 good hitters, why do they usually score 1 or two runs a game. They have 0 good hitters. Maybe 2 ok hitters and the rest are minor league junk. Face it the roster is horrible. No playoff team would want any of these guys. And if they bring out the same bunch next year, how sad. That’s not competitive at any level.

4 GOOD hitters is not enough, but every lineup has multiple average to plus guys. The great offenses have 1 or 2 (or even 3) GREAT hitters or stars. Add 2 stars to this team of 4 GOOD hitters and 3 OK/weak hitters (but great defense) and you have a great offense.