Memphis OF

[HorseTrader]

Ozzie was worse than Scott. Scott needs to do what Ozzie did. After a year or 2 of chopping down bunting and improving his obp, his bat to ball skills actually improved and his offense was playable.

Scott doesn't have the artifcial turf that made Ozzie a success.

Ozzie didn't play all his games on turf. He improved drastically over a period of time. I watched it. To say the turf made him a success is just wrong. Did it help? Sure.

I watched it too. Without the turf Ozzie would still have become a good hitter but without it, the slashing down on the ball would have been less effective

[Hoosier59]

Ozzie was worse than Scott. Scott needs to do what Ozzie did. After a year or 2 of chopping down bunting and improving his obp, his bat to ball skills actually improved and his offense was playable.

People acting like Scott has no hope to improve with the bat after his 1st full year in the league... and while providing a pretty high floor of value with his defense and baserunning. Ridiculous.

Have you watched Scott trying to lay down a bunt? Seriously, have you watched him at all? He’s terrible at it! Have you ever seen him try and just slap a ball toward left field and use his speed to try and beat out a hit? No, you haven’t because he doesn’t EVER try to do it!
Can Victor Scott improve, most definitely. He is an athletic, and talented player. but will he improve? Not until he really wants to, and stops trying to pull everything and keeps swinging as hard as he can. He has to start valuing on base % and scoring runs. Until and unless he does, he’ll never be a quality Major league hitter.

[2ninr]

Ozzie was worse than Scott. Scott needs to do what Ozzie did. After a year or 2 of chopping down bunting and improving his obp, his bat to ball skills actually improved and his offense was playable.

People acting like Scott has no hope to improve with the bat after his 1st full year in the league... and while providing a pretty high floor of value with his defense and baserunning. Ridiculous.

Have you watched Scott trying to lay down a bunt? Seriously, have you watched him at all? He’s terrible at it! Have you ever seen him try and just slap a ball toward left field and use his speed to try and beat out a hit? No, you haven’t because he doesn’t EVER try to do it!
Can Victor Scott improve, most definitely. He is an athletic, and talented player. but will he improve? Not until he really wants to, and stops trying to pull everything and keeps swinging as hard as he can. He has to start valuing on base % and scoring runs. Until and unless he does, he’ll never be a quality Major league hitter.

I have no quarrel with that.

[cardstatman]

I have very little hope Scott will ever hit. He still has that high floor due to his glove though. Same deal for Siani. High Floor. Low Ceiling.
Nootbar is near average both offensively and defensively. High Floor. Low Ceiling.

I don't think Church glove will be quite as good as Scott/Siani but his bat may be better. High Floor. High Ceiling.

Walker's range and glove are bad; his arm is good but that doesn't make up for it. That makes him a low ceiling guy. Low Floor. Low Ceiling.
Burleson is slightly above average bat and poor defense. Low Floor. Low Ceiling. But he's hitting his ceiling.

I'm in the camp of sending Walker to AAA and trading Nootbar (except his value is dropping due to his late season slump).

C Crooks/Pages
1B Contreras
2B Wetherholt (LH Torres as backup IF)
SS Winn
3B Arenado
LF Donovan
CF Church vs Scott
RF Burleson (Acquire a RH OF, too)
DH Herrera

[Cusecards]

Ozzie was worse than Scott. Scott needs to do what Ozzie did. After a year or 2 of chopping down bunting and improving his obp, his bat to ball skills actually improved and his offense was playable.

People acting like Scott has no hope to improve with the bat after his 1st full year in the league... and while providing a pretty high floor of value with his defense and baserunning. Ridiculous.

Have you watched Scott trying to lay down a bunt? Seriously, have you watched him at all? He’s terrible at it! Have you ever seen him try and just slap a ball toward left field and use his speed to try and beat out a hit? No, you haven’t because he doesn’t EVER try to do it!
Can Victor Scott improve, most definitely. He is an athletic, and talented player. but will he improve? Not until he really wants to, and stops trying to pull everything and keeps swinging as hard as he can. He has to start valuing on base % and scoring runs. Until and unless he does, he’ll never be a quality Major league hitter.

I have no quarrel with that.

Nailed it!
You have to wonder exactly WHAT these guys are thinking in the film room???

[3dender]

Ozzie was worse than Scott. Scott needs to do what Ozzie did. After a year or 2 of chopping down bunting and improving his obp, his bat to ball skills actually improved and his offense was playable.

People acting like Scott has no hope to improve with the bat after his 1st full year in the league... and while providing a pretty high floor of value with his defense and baserunning. Ridiculous.

Have you watched Scott trying to lay down a bunt? Seriously, have you watched him at all? He’s terrible at it! Have you ever seen him try and just slap a ball toward left field and use his speed to try and beat out a hit? No, you haven’t because he doesn’t EVER try to do it!
Can Victor Scott improve, most definitely. He is an athletic, and talented player. but will he improve? Not until he really wants to, and stops trying to pull everything and keeps swinging as hard as he can. He has to start valuing on base % and scoring runs. Until and unless he does, he’ll never be a quality Major league hitter.

He's had one full year in the bigs, you have no idea his likelihood of improving, get a grip.

[2ninr]

Ozzie was worse than Scott. Scott needs to do what Ozzie did. After a year or 2 of chopping down bunting and improving his obp, his bat to ball skills actually improved and his offense was playable.

People acting like Scott has no hope to improve with the bat after his 1st full year in the league... and while providing a pretty high floor of value with his defense and baserunning. Ridiculous.

Have you watched Scott trying to lay down a bunt? Seriously, have you watched him at all? He’s terrible at it! Have you ever seen him try and just slap a ball toward left field and use his speed to try and beat out a hit? No, you haven’t because he doesn’t EVER try to do it!
Can Victor Scott improve, most definitely. He is an athletic, and talented player. but will he improve? Not until he really wants to, and stops trying to pull everything and keeps swinging as hard as he can. He has to start valuing on base % and scoring runs. Until and unless he does, he’ll never be a quality Major league hitter.

He's had one full year in the bigs, you have no idea his likelihood of improving, get a grip.

I have an idea. If he doesn't change his approach and start making an effort to improve his obp instead of his ops, eventually his speed and defensive skills will decline and he will be out of the league. I like him and love what he brings. But offensively, it needs to be more. If Church can start hitting, Victor will be bench.

[imadangman]

Memphis could have a very interesting OF to start the season next year. I expect the Cardinals to exercise Jordan Walker's last option at the beginning of the season. I also expect them to promote Joshua Baez to start the season. I'm less certain- but they could also promote Chase Davis. He has hit over .300 since the All-Star break and has cut down (somewhat) on his strikeouts. Just an aside, is Chase his given name, or a nickname he earned along the way? (Kidding) There still aren't many extra base hits from Davis. That would give Memphis a 1st round pick in decline (Walker), a 2nd round pick on the rise, and a 1st round pick possibly coming out of decline. A lot of potential there. I hope something materializes.

Either Church or Scott will probably be in Memphis also

Or they may both be gone. Neither are needle movers

Scott has been our team leader in WAR by at least one major measure. Weird but true.

Which is a perfect example why WAR is a bogus stat.

No it isn't

[Cardinals4Life]

Memphis could have a very interesting OF to start the season next year. I expect the Cardinals to exercise Jordan Walker's last option at the beginning of the season. I also expect them to promote Joshua Baez to start the season. I'm less certain- but they could also promote Chase Davis. He has hit over .300 since the All-Star break and has cut down (somewhat) on his strikeouts. Just an aside, is Chase his given name, or a nickname he earned along the way? (Kidding) There still aren't many extra base hits from Davis. That would give Memphis a 1st round pick in decline (Walker), a 2nd round pick on the rise, and a 1st round pick possibly coming out of decline. A lot of potential there. I hope something materializes.

Either Church or Scott will probably be in Memphis also

Or they may both be gone. Neither are needle movers

Scott has been our team leader in WAR by at least one major measure. Weird but true.

Which is a perfect example why WAR is a bogus stat.

No it isn't

Bigtime bogus! You think VSII has been our best player this year? C'mon now.

[imadangman]

Memphis could have a very interesting OF to start the season next year. I expect the Cardinals to exercise Jordan Walker's last option at the beginning of the season. I also expect them to promote Joshua Baez to start the season. I'm less certain- but they could also promote Chase Davis. He has hit over .300 since the All-Star break and has cut down (somewhat) on his strikeouts. Just an aside, is Chase his given name, or a nickname he earned along the way? (Kidding) There still aren't many extra base hits from Davis. That would give Memphis a 1st round pick in decline (Walker), a 2nd round pick on the rise, and a 1st round pick possibly coming out of decline. A lot of potential there. I hope something materializes.

Either Church or Scott will probably be in Memphis also

Or they may both be gone. Neither are needle movers

Scott has been our team leader in WAR by at least one major measure. Weird but true.

Which is a perfect example why WAR is a bogus stat.

No it isn't

Bigtime bogus! You think VSII has been our best player this year? C'mon now.

Just ask yourself "why do you think VSII's WAR is higher than you would think?" We don't need to take it to the bank that he's the best player. You can just say, ok I guess he must be providing some pretty good value based on his defense and speed, maybe more than we would think at face value. It's a conversation starter not a conversation ender.

[Cardinals4Life]

Memphis could have a very interesting OF to start the season next year. I expect the Cardinals to exercise Jordan Walker's last option at the beginning of the season. I also expect them to promote Joshua Baez to start the season. I'm less certain- but they could also promote Chase Davis. He has hit over .300 since the All-Star break and has cut down (somewhat) on his strikeouts. Just an aside, is Chase his given name, or a nickname he earned along the way? (Kidding) There still aren't many extra base hits from Davis. That would give Memphis a 1st round pick in decline (Walker), a 2nd round pick on the rise, and a 1st round pick possibly coming out of decline. A lot of potential there. I hope something materializes.

Either Church or Scott will probably be in Memphis also

Or they may both be gone. Neither are needle movers

Scott has been our team leader in WAR by at least one major measure. Weird but true.

Which is a perfect example why WAR is a bogus stat.

No it isn't

Bigtime bogus! You think VSII has been our best player this year? C'mon now.

Just ask yourself "why do you think VSII's WAR is higher than you would think?" We don't need to take it to the bank that he's the best player. You can just say, ok I guess he must be providing some pretty good value based on his defense and speed, maybe more than we would think at face value. It's a conversation starter not a conversation ender.

I don't ever ask myself about a player's WAR, because I know it is nonsense.

VSII provides good CF defense and pretty below average offense. No where close to our best player, though.

[imadangman]

Memphis could have a very interesting OF to start the season next year. I expect the Cardinals to exercise Jordan Walker's last option at the beginning of the season. I also expect them to promote Joshua Baez to start the season. I'm less certain- but they could also promote Chase Davis. He has hit over .300 since the All-Star break and has cut down (somewhat) on his strikeouts. Just an aside, is Chase his given name, or a nickname he earned along the way? (Kidding) There still aren't many extra base hits from Davis. That would give Memphis a 1st round pick in decline (Walker), a 2nd round pick on the rise, and a 1st round pick possibly coming out of decline. A lot of potential there. I hope something materializes.

Either Church or Scott will probably be in Memphis also

Or they may both be gone. Neither are needle movers

Scott has been our team leader in WAR by at least one major measure. Weird but true.

Which is a perfect example why WAR is a bogus stat.

No it isn't

Bigtime bogus! You think VSII has been our best player this year? C'mon now.

Just ask yourself "why do you think VSII's WAR is higher than you would think?" We don't need to take it to the bank that he's the best player. You can just say, ok I guess he must be providing some pretty good value based on his defense and speed, maybe more than we would think at face value. It's a conversation starter not a conversation ender.

I don't ever ask myself about a player's WAR, because I know it is nonsense.

VSII provides good CF defense and pretty below average offense. No where close to our best player, though.

Baseball reference WAR doesn't have him as our best player either. It has Contreras, Donovan, Winn above him which makes sense for sure, and Herrera and Burleson slightly behind him. Herrera has played about 30 less games and they both don't play great defense. It's something we can understand the reasoning behind it. We really don't have many "great" players on this roster anyway. It's not like he's competing with Pujols and Edmonds to be the best player on the team.

I'm curious if you could elaborate why it's "nonsense." What is the guideline for what stats you consider nonsense?

All the stats exist, it's just about how you interpret them. Nothing is meant to be the end all be all, even if the WAR guys think so.

[Bob39]

Memphis could have a very interesting OF to start the season next year. I expect the Cardinals to exercise Jordan Walker's last option at the beginning of the season. I also expect them to promote Joshua Baez to start the season. I'm less certain- but they could also promote Chase Davis. He has hit over .300 since the All-Star break and has cut down (somewhat) on his strikeouts. Just an aside, is Chase his given name, or a nickname he earned along the way? (Kidding) There still aren't many extra base hits from Davis. That would give Memphis a 1st round pick in decline (Walker), a 2nd round pick on the rise, and a 1st round pick possibly coming out of decline. A lot of potential there. I hope something materializes.

What then happens with Antico who is probably the best hitter of everyone you have listed so far?

[Talkin' Baseball]

Memphis could have a very interesting OF to start the season next year. I expect the Cardinals to exercise Jordan Walker's last option at the beginning of the season. I also expect them to promote Joshua Baez to start the season. I'm less certain- but they could also promote Chase Davis. He has hit over .300 since the All-Star break and has cut down (somewhat) on his strikeouts. Just an aside, is Chase his given name, or a nickname he earned along the way? (Kidding) There still aren't many extra base hits from Davis. That would give Memphis a 1st round pick in decline (Walker), a 2nd round pick on the rise, and a 1st round pick possibly coming out of decline. A lot of potential there. I hope something materializes.

What then happens with Antico who is probably the best hitter of everyone you have listed so far?

...and Koperniak? They are getting old for their level. They may not be here anymore.

[icon]

I have very little hope Scott will ever hit. He still has that high floor due to his glove though. Same deal for Siani. High Floor. Low Ceiling.
Nootbar is near average both offensively and defensively. High Floor. Low Ceiling.

I don't think Church glove will be quite as good as Scott/Siani but his bat may be better. High Floor. High Ceiling.

Walker's range and glove are bad; his arm is good but that doesn't make up for it. That makes him a low ceiling guy. Low Floor. Low Ceiling.
Burleson is slightly above average bat and poor defense. Low Floor. Low Ceiling. But he's hitting his ceiling.

I'm in the camp of sending Walker to AAA and trading Nootbar (except his value is dropping due to his late season slump).

C Crooks/Pages
1B Contreras
2B Wetherholt (LH Torres as backup IF)
SS Winn
3B Arenado
LF Donovan
CF Church vs Scott
RF Burleson (Acquire a RH OF, too)
DH Herrera

Why do you think of Church as high ceiling? He has never been a top prospect and has had 1 good year in the minors at age 25. And his BB rate has never been above 10% in the minors. And with the Cardinals so far, just 3 BBs in 48 PAs, or 5.8%. That's a red flag.

[icon]

I have very little hope Scott will ever hit. He still has that high floor due to his glove though. Same deal for Siani. High Floor. Low Ceiling.
Nootbar is near average both offensively and defensively. High Floor. Low Ceiling.

I don't think Church glove will be quite as good as Scott/Siani but his bat may be better. High Floor. High Ceiling.

Walker's range and glove are bad; his arm is good but that doesn't make up for it. That makes him a low ceiling guy. Low Floor. Low Ceiling.
Burleson is slightly above average bat and poor defense. Low Floor. Low Ceiling. But he's hitting his ceiling.

I'm in the camp of sending Walker to AAA and trading Nootbar (except his value is dropping due to his late season slump).

C Crooks/Pages
1B Contreras
2B Wetherholt (LH Torres as backup IF)
SS Winn
3B Arenado
LF Donovan
CF Church vs Scott
RF Burleson (Acquire a RH OF, too)
DH Herrera

Why do you think of Church as high ceiling? He has never been a top prospect and has had 1 good year in the minors at age 25. And his BB rate has never been above 10% in the minors. And with the Cardinals so far, just 3 BBs in 48 PAs, or 5.8%. That's a red flag.

Correction, 3 BBs in 58 PAs, or 5.8%, for Church with the Cardinals.