Carter Hart

[Pierre McGuire]

Lots of smoke out there. As many as 12 teams are prepared to offer him a contract. Sounds like a lot of teams are putting pressure on the NHL powers that be to reinstate him.

https://athlonsports.com/nhl/philadelph ... rt-reunion

[TAFKAP]

I don't want to wade into the reason we got here. Please no. I'm curious about the contract side. When did the NHL make them ineligible? Did Philly terminate the contract on their own or did the NHL determine that? If Philly did it on their own, I see how they would lose any rights, but, if it was done at league "suggestion"? Does anyone have the timeline for how that part went down?

[STL fan in MN]

I don't want to wade into the reason we got here. Please no. I'm curious about the contract side. When did the NHL make them ineligible? Did Philly terminate the contract on their own or did the NHL determine that? If Philly did it on their own, I see how they would lose any rights, but, if it was done at league "suggestion"? Does anyone have the timeline for how that part went down?

I didn’t pay a ton of attention to this but my recollection was that once they were charged, the players that were still under NHL contract were suspended from the league (at least a couple of them had already moved overseas to play in Europe). Some time later, Hart’s contract expired and the Flyers decided to not offer him a qualifying offer. This made him a UFA…although a suspended ineligible one. My understanding is the Flyers are now arguing they should be able to keep his rights and he shouldn’t be a UFA. From my vantage point, they don’t seem to have much of a case but there's probably a lot of details we as fans just don’t know.

Like you said, maybe the NHL pressured them, idk. My guess is he’s eventually deemed a UFA and is then reinstated and free to sign with anyone. But the Flyers are going to be one of the main teams after him regarding of his free agent status.

[Walter Sobchak00]

I don't want to wade into the reason we got here. Please no. I'm curious about the contract side. When did the NHL make them ineligible? Did Philly terminate the contract on their own or did the NHL determine that? If Philly did it on their own, I see how they would lose any rights, but, if it was done at league "suggestion"? Does anyone have the timeline for how that part went down?

I didn’t pay a ton of attention to this but my recollection was that once they were charged, the players that were still under NHL contract were suspended from the league (at least a couple of them had already moved overseas to play in Europe). Some time later, Hart’s contract expired and the Flyers decided to not offer him a qualifying offer. This made him a UFA…although a suspended ineligible one. My understanding is the Flyers are now arguing they should be able to keep his rights and he shouldn’t be a UFA. From my vantage point, they don’t seem to have much of a case but there's probably a lot of details we as fans just don’t know.

Like you said, maybe the NHL pressured them, idk. My guess is he’s eventually deemed a UFA and is then reinstated and free to sign with anyone. But the Flyers are going to be one of the main teams after him regarding of his free agent status.

From the Flyers point of view if Hart was suspended and ineligible how would they have signed him to a contract had they qualified him?

[TheJackBurton]

I don't want to wade into the reason we got here. Please no. I'm curious about the contract side. When did the NHL make them ineligible? Did Philly terminate the contract on their own or did the NHL determine that? If Philly did it on their own, I see how they would lose any rights, but, if it was done at league "suggestion"? Does anyone have the timeline for how that part went down?

I didn’t pay a ton of attention to this but my recollection was that once they were charged, the players that were still under NHL contract were suspended from the league (at least a couple of them had already moved overseas to play in Europe). Some time later, Hart’s contract expired and the Flyers decided to not offer him a qualifying offer. This made him a UFA…although a suspended ineligible one. My understanding is the Flyers are now arguing they should be able to keep his rights and he shouldn’t be a UFA. From my vantage point, they don’t seem to have much of a case but there's probably a lot of details we as fans just don’t know.

Like you said, maybe the NHL pressured them, idk. My guess is he’s eventually deemed a UFA and is then reinstated and free to sign with anyone. But the Flyers are going to be one of the main teams after him regarding of his free agent status.

From the Flyers point of view if Hart was suspended and ineligible how would they have signed him to a contract had they qualified him?

In this case I would absolutely be siding with the Flyers. Why would they offer a QO to a player that the league had essentially permanently suspended and all but kicked out of the league?

If nothing else they should get first rights

[Army's Mom]

I don't want to wade into the reason we got here. Please no. I'm curious about the contract side. When did the NHL make them ineligible? Did Philly terminate the contract on their own or did the NHL determine that? If Philly did it on their own, I see how they would lose any rights, but, if it was done at league "suggestion"? Does anyone have the timeline for how that part went down?

I didn’t pay a ton of attention to this but my recollection was that once they were charged, the players that were still under NHL contract were suspended from the league (at least a couple of them had already moved overseas to play in Europe). Some time later, Hart’s contract expired and the Flyers decided to not offer him a qualifying offer. This made him a UFA…although a suspended ineligible one. My understanding is the Flyers are now arguing they should be able to keep his rights and he shouldn’t be a UFA. From my vantage point, they don’t seem to have much of a case but there's probably a lot of details we as fans just don’t know.

Like you said, maybe the NHL pressured them, idk. My guess is he’s eventually deemed a UFA and is then reinstated and free to sign with anyone. But the Flyers are going to be one of the main teams after him regarding of his free agent status.

From the Flyers point of view if Hart was suspended and ineligible how would they have signed him to a contract had they qualified him?

In this case I would absolutely be siding with the Flyers. Why would they offer a QO to a player that the league had essentially permanently suspended and all but kicked out of the league?

If nothing else they should get first rights

This. To me, it boils down to one simple question - "Did the Flyers actually have a meaningful opportunity to qualify him while he was suspended by the NHL?" If the League suspension prevented the Flyers from exercising their rights, then those rights should still be intact.

If, however, the Flyers could have qualified him while he was under suspension, and chose not to, then they chose to waive their rights.

[bluetunehead]

I don't want to wade into the reason we got here. Please no. I'm curious about the contract side. When did the NHL make them ineligible? Did Philly terminate the contract on their own or did the NHL determine that? If Philly did it on their own, I see how they would lose any rights, but, if it was done at league "suggestion"? Does anyone have the timeline for how that part went down?

I didn’t pay a ton of attention to this but my recollection was that once they were charged, the players that were still under NHL contract were suspended from the league (at least a couple of them had already moved overseas to play in Europe). Some time later, Hart’s contract expired and the Flyers decided to not offer him a qualifying offer. This made him a UFA…although a suspended ineligible one. My understanding is the Flyers are now arguing they should be able to keep his rights and he shouldn’t be a UFA. From my vantage point, they don’t seem to have much of a case but there's probably a lot of details we as fans just don’t know.

Like you said, maybe the NHL pressured them, idk. My guess is he’s eventually deemed a UFA and is then reinstated and free to sign with anyone. But the Flyers are going to be one of the main teams after him regarding of his free agent status.

From the Flyers point of view if Hart was suspended and ineligible how would they have signed him to a contract had they qualified him?

In this case I would absolutely be siding with the Flyers. Why would they offer a QO to a player that the league had essentially permanently suspended and all but kicked out of the league?

If nothing else they should get first rights

This. To me, it boils down to one simple question - "Did the Flyers actually have a meaningful opportunity to qualify him while he was suspended by the NHL?" If the League suspension prevented the Flyers from exercising their rights, then those rights should still be intact.

If, however, the Flyers could have qualified him while he was under suspension, and chose not to, then they chose to waive their rights.

Worth noting that had nothing ever happened, Hart would now have UFA status. That probably plays into this as well. The Flyers did not qualify him, but even if they did, they only would have maintained his rights for last season. He's 27 years old now and would have had 7 pro seasons had he kept playing, both give him UFA status.

This is obviously an unprecedented situation in a lot of ways, but I'd bet the NHLPA would have an issue with his rights reverting back to the Flyers at this point.

[STL fan in MN]

Everyone makes a lot of good points. Sounds like it would depend upon the timing, what options were truly available at the time etc. But my guess is it’ll go back to whatever the rules are in the CBA…and I’d say there’s a 99% chance the lawyers didn’t think of this exact scenario when they wrote it up years ago so my guess is Hart will be considered unqualified and thus a UFA. But I guess we’ll find out one way or another soon enough though!

[TheJackBurton]

Everyone makes a lot of good points. Sounds like it would depend upon the timing, what options were truly available at the time etc. But my guess is it’ll go back to whatever the rules are in the CBA…and I’d say there’s a 99% chance the lawyers didn’t think of this exact scenario when they wrote it up years ago so my guess is Hart will be considered unqualified and thus a UFA. But I guess we’ll find out one way or another soon enough though!

I think a reasonable compromise would be that the Flyers get exclusive negotiating rights for 24-48 hours, after that it's a free for all.

[Old_Goat]

Everyone makes a lot of good points. Sounds like it would depend upon the timing, what options were truly available at the time etc. But my guess is it’ll go back to whatever the rules are in the CBA…and I’d say there’s a 99% chance the lawyers didn’t think of this exact scenario when they wrote it up years ago so my guess is Hart will be considered unqualified and thus a UFA. But I guess we’ll find out one way or another soon enough though!

I think a reasonable compromise would be that the Flyers get exclusive negotiating rights for 24-48 hours, after that it's a free for all.

Both Army's Mom's and your thoughts seem to have a logical fairness to them that would make it difficult for other teams to litigate, assuming that this particular scenario was not properly addressed in the CBA that was in effect at the time.
We shall see.

[Pierre McGuire]

Good discussion peeps. I did see somebody say they think he will be deemed a free agent and because he hasn’t collected a paycheck for a year and a half he’s likely going to sign with the highest bidder. Will be interesting to see how this plays out with the Flyers

[IsDurbanodoingtime]

Everyone makes a lot of good points. Sounds like it would depend upon the timing, what options were truly available at the time etc. But my guess is it’ll go back to whatever the rules are in the CBA…and I’d say there’s a 99% chance the lawyers didn’t think of this exact scenario when they wrote it up years ago so my guess is Hart will be considered unqualified and thus a UFA. But I guess we’ll find out one way or another soon enough though!

I think a reasonable compromise would be that the Flyers get exclusive negotiating rights for 24-48 hours, after that it's a free for all.

Both Army's Mom's and your thoughts seem to have a logical fairness to them that would make it difficult for other teams to litigate, assuming that this particular scenario was not properly addressed in the CBA that was in effect at the time.
We shall see.

If this scenario is not contemplated in the cba, it is resolved in two ways - the nhlpa and league negotiate an agreeable resolurion or the parties let an arbitrator interpret the agreement and come to a solution. No one wants to lose control over the language of the document(cba). This will get resolved quickly.

[Nublues69]

I don't want to wade into the reason we got here. Please no. I'm curious about the contract side. When did the NHL make them ineligible? Did Philly terminate the contract on their own or did the NHL determine that? If Philly did it on their own, I see how they would lose any rights, but, if it was done at league "suggestion"? Does anyone have the timeline for how that part went down?

I didn’t pay a ton of attention to this but my recollection was that once they were charged, the players that were still under NHL contract were suspended from the league (at least a couple of them had already moved overseas to play in Europe). Some time later, Hart’s contract expired and the Flyers decided to not offer him a qualifying offer. This made him a UFA…although a suspended ineligible one. My understanding is the Flyers are now arguing they should be able to keep his rights and he shouldn’t be a UFA. From my vantage point, they don’t seem to have much of a case but there's probably a lot of details we as fans just don’t know.

Like you said, maybe the NHL pressured them, idk. My guess is he’s eventually deemed a UFA and is then reinstated and free to sign with anyone. But the Flyers are going to be one of the main teams after him regarding of his free agent status.

From the Flyers point of view if Hart was suspended and ineligible how would they have signed him to a contract had they qualified him?

In this case I would absolutely be siding with the Flyers. Why would they offer a QO to a player that the league had essentially permanently suspended and all but kicked out of the league?

If nothing else they should get first rights

My thought would be send the QO and let the league decide. To me it seems they just cut ties due to bad press. They should have sent an offer to retain rights IMO

[STL fan in MN]

I don't want to wade into the reason we got here. Please no. I'm curious about the contract side. When did the NHL make them ineligible? Did Philly terminate the contract on their own or did the NHL determine that? If Philly did it on their own, I see how they would lose any rights, but, if it was done at league "suggestion"? Does anyone have the timeline for how that part went down?

I didn’t pay a ton of attention to this but my recollection was that once they were charged, the players that were still under NHL contract were suspended from the league (at least a couple of them had already moved overseas to play in Europe). Some time later, Hart’s contract expired and the Flyers decided to not offer him a qualifying offer. This made him a UFA…although a suspended ineligible one. My understanding is the Flyers are now arguing they should be able to keep his rights and he shouldn’t be a UFA. From my vantage point, they don’t seem to have much of a case but there's probably a lot of details we as fans just don’t know.

Like you said, maybe the NHL pressured them, idk. My guess is he’s eventually deemed a UFA and is then reinstated and free to sign with anyone. But the Flyers are going to be one of the main teams after him regarding of his free agent status.

From the Flyers point of view if Hart was suspended and ineligible how would they have signed him to a contract had they qualified him?

In this case I would absolutely be siding with the Flyers. Why would they offer a QO to a player that the league had essentially permanently suspended and all but kicked out of the league?

If nothing else they should get first rights

My thought would be send the QO and let the league decide. To me it seems they just cut ties due to bad press. They should have sent an offer to retain rights IMO

Except Hart made $4.48M the last year of his deal so the QO to keep his rights also would’ve had to be $4.48M at the least. That’s real money the Flyers would’ve had to offer Hart to not play for them, just to keep his rights in the event be was ever deemed eligible again. And I’m pretty sure he would’ve counted against the Cap still do.

So I can certainly see why the Flyers chose not to send Hart a QO. I doubt any team would.

[Nublues69]

I don't want to wade into the reason we got here. Please no. I'm curious about the contract side. When did the NHL make them ineligible? Did Philly terminate the contract on their own or did the NHL determine that? If Philly did it on their own, I see how they would lose any rights, but, if it was done at league "suggestion"? Does anyone have the timeline for how that part went down?

I didn’t pay a ton of attention to this but my recollection was that once they were charged, the players that were still under NHL contract were suspended from the league (at least a couple of them had already moved overseas to play in Europe). Some time later, Hart’s contract expired and the Flyers decided to not offer him a qualifying offer. This made him a UFA…although a suspended ineligible one. My understanding is the Flyers are now arguing they should be able to keep his rights and he shouldn’t be a UFA. From my vantage point, they don’t seem to have much of a case but there's probably a lot of details we as fans just don’t know.

Like you said, maybe the NHL pressured them, idk. My guess is he’s eventually deemed a UFA and is then reinstated and free to sign with anyone. But the Flyers are going to be one of the main teams after him regarding of his free agent status.

From the Flyers point of view if Hart was suspended and ineligible how would they have signed him to a contract had they qualified him?

In this case I would absolutely be siding with the Flyers. Why would they offer a QO to a player that the league had essentially permanently suspended and all but kicked out of the league?

If nothing else they should get first rights

My thought would be send the QO and let the league decide. To me it seems they just cut ties due to bad press. They should have sent an offer to retain rights IMO

Except Hart made $4.48M the last year of his deal so the QO to keep his rights also would’ve had to be $4.48M at the least. That’s real money the Flyers would’ve had to offer Hart to not play for them, just to keep his rights in the event be was ever deemed eligible again. And I’m pretty sure he would’ve counted against the Cap still do.

So I can certainly see why the Flyers chose not to send Hart a QO. I doubt any team would.

They would not have to have paid cause he was suspended by the league. So yes on paper they offered but in reality he was suspended with out pay bythe league

[STL fan in MN]

I don't want to wade into the reason we got here. Please no. I'm curious about the contract side. When did the NHL make them ineligible? Did Philly terminate the contract on their own or did the NHL determine that? If Philly did it on their own, I see how they would lose any rights, but, if it was done at league "suggestion"? Does anyone have the timeline for how that part went down?

I didn’t pay a ton of attention to this but my recollection was that once they were charged, the players that were still under NHL contract were suspended from the league (at least a couple of them had already moved overseas to play in Europe). Some time later, Hart’s contract expired and the Flyers decided to not offer him a qualifying offer. This made him a UFA…although a suspended ineligible one. My understanding is the Flyers are now arguing they should be able to keep his rights and he shouldn’t be a UFA. From my vantage point, they don’t seem to have much of a case but there's probably a lot of details we as fans just don’t know.

Like you said, maybe the NHL pressured them, idk. My guess is he’s eventually deemed a UFA and is then reinstated and free to sign with anyone. But the Flyers are going to be one of the main teams after him regarding of his free agent status.

From the Flyers point of view if Hart was suspended and ineligible how would they have signed him to a contract had they qualified him?

In this case I would absolutely be siding with the Flyers. Why would they offer a QO to a player that the league had essentially permanently suspended and all but kicked out of the league?

If nothing else they should get first rights

My thought would be send the QO and let the league decide. To me it seems they just cut ties due to bad press. They should have sent an offer to retain rights IMO

Except Hart made $4.48M the last year of his deal so the QO to keep his rights also would’ve had to be $4.48M at the least. That’s real money the Flyers would’ve had to offer Hart to not play for them, just to keep his rights in the event be was ever deemed eligible again. And I’m pretty sure he would’ve counted against the Cap still do.

So I can certainly see why the Flyers chose not to send Hart a QO. I doubt any team would.

They would not have to have paid cause he was suspended by the league. So yes on paper they offered but in reality he was suspended with out pay bythe league

You’re correct in that Hart wouldn’t have collected the money but the Flyers still would’ve had to pay it. It just would’ve gone to the Players' Emergency Assistance Fund instead of Hart.