therzog29 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 13:29 pm
I keep seeing post after post complaining about the Cards not bringing up Weatherholt for a cup of coffee this year. I don’t think many of you have any understanding of the reasons why he isn’t being brought up. He obviously has done everything to prove that he deserves an opportunity, but Mo and or Bloom are doing the smart thing here. (I am no fan of Mo)
Currently he isn’t on the 40 man roster, and because of his status he isn’t eligible for the rule 5 draft and doesn’t need to be protected. If he is brought up to the majors, he will have to be added to the 40 man which will take another spot that the cards could use to protect another player from being picked off their roster through the rule 5 draft.
Also by not starting his service time until opening day they can actually push back his first year of arbitration until 2029. Saving the cards some payroll down the line. If they delay his debut until mid April, which I think they will, he won’t be eligible for arbitration until 2030 and pushes his free agency back an additional year. After 2032 season.
My money is on seeing JJ sometime in mid April of 2026.
I think this would be the smartest move the front office could make.
Everyone understands.
Some just don't like it.
And so they whine.
bakker wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 14:25 pm
First of all I think almost everyone understands the issue of the 40 man rule. Somewhat relevant to their decision? Maybe but looking at the 40 man roster it hardly seems to be an overriding issue. Surely they're not going to keep him in the minors until they have to (ye ads) add him or subject him to the rule 5 draft. We can surely agree on that.
If they lose a year of control then that's a very important issue. It's my understanding though if he comes up after 9/1 that's not an issue. Is that not correct?
It would seem if they don't lose a year of control the exposure he would get from playing in 20 plus games would be very important in his development. If he struggles somewhat then that might be even for the better. He'll know better what to work on in the offseason. It's not rushing him to give him that opportunity and learning experience. I assume he could still go to the Arizona fall League.
This isn't an issue anymore bakker since teams all over MLB now are signing their young stars to LT deals way before they reach their free agent walk season.
IF JJW is the player most seems to think he'll be, then he'll get locked down w/that LT deal.
Not bringing him up now is yet another idiotic Mo decision.
I think it's more of a Mo being a jackass situation. He knows the fans want to see Wetherholt and he's being a jerk about it. And I dont believe him sitting the day Bally's carried the Memphis game was a coincidence either. Just Mozeliak being spiteful.
Its unreal. Why an owner would support this behavior. And why they seem intent on pissing off their customers.
bakker wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 14:25 pm
First of all I think almost everyone understands the issue of the 40 man rule. Somewhat relevant to their decision? Maybe but looking at the 40 man roster it hardly seems to be an overriding issue. Surely they're not going to keep him in the minors until they have to (ye ads) add him or subject him to the rule 5 draft. We can surely agree on that.
If they lose a year of control then that's a very important issue. It's my understanding though if he comes up after 9/1 that's not an issue. Is that not correct?
It would seem if they don't lose a year of control the exposure he would get from playing in 20 plus games would be very important in his development. If he struggles somewhat then that might be even for the better. He'll know better what to work on in the offseason. It's not rushing him to give him that opportunity and learning experience. I assume he could still go to the Arizona fall League.
This isn't an issue anymore bakker since teams all over MLB now are signing their young stars to LT deals way before they reach their free agent walk season.
IF JJW is the player most seems to think he'll be, then he'll get locked down w/that LT deal.
Not bringing him up now is yet another idiotic Mo decision.
I think it's more of a Mo being a jackass situation. He knows the fans want to see Wetherholt and he's being a jerk about it. And I dont believe him sitting the day Bally's carried the Memphis game was a coincidence either. Just Mozeliak being spiteful.
Its unreal. Why an owner would support this behavior. And why they seem intent on pissing off their customers.
People have joked Mo must have pics of BDWjr, makes you wonder.
bakker wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 14:25 pm
First of all I think almost everyone understands the issue of the 40 man rule. Somewhat relevant to their decision? Maybe but looking at the 40 man roster it hardly seems to be an overriding issue. Surely they're not going to keep him in the minors until they have to (ye ads) add him or subject him to the rule 5 draft. We can surely agree on that.
If they lose a year of control then that's a very important issue. It's my understanding though if he comes up after 9/1 that's not an issue. Is that not correct?
It would seem if they don't lose a year of control the exposure he would get from playing in 20 plus games would be very important in his development. If he struggles somewhat then that might be even for the better. He'll know better what to work on in the offseason. It's not rushing him to give him that opportunity and learning experience. I assume he could still go to the Arizona fall League.
This isn't an issue anymore bakker since teams all over MLB now are signing their young stars to LT deals way before they reach their free agent walk season.
IF JJW is the player most seems to think he'll be, then he'll get locked down w/that LT deal.
Not bringing him up now is yet another idiotic Mo decision.
I think it's more of a Mo being a jackass situation. He knows the fans want to see Wetherholt and he's being a jerk about it. And I dont believe him sitting the day Bally's carried the Memphis game was a coincidence either. Just Mozeliak being spiteful.
Its unreal. Why an owner would support this behavior. And why they seem intent on pissing off their customers.
IMO it's legitimately insane/ unhinged/ irrational for you to believe that Mo is behaving out of spite toward fans, rather than just having different priorities which are quite arguably dumb.
Maybe you inhabit a different reality than me, but in mine the people in highly paid, public facing positions don't generally behave like kindergartners. And they certainly don't care enough about us plebes to make decisions based purely on rage baiting us. You may be suffering paranoid delusions.
bakker wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 14:25 pm
First of all I think almost everyone understands the issue of the 40 man rule. Somewhat relevant to their decision? Maybe but looking at the 40 man roster it hardly seems to be an overriding issue. Surely they're not going to keep him in the minors until they have to (ye ads) add him or subject him to the rule 5 draft. We can surely agree on that.
If they lose a year of control then that's a very important issue. It's my understanding though if he comes up after 9/1 that's not an issue. Is that not correct?
It would seem if they don't lose a year of control the exposure he would get from playing in 20 plus games would be very important in his development. If he struggles somewhat then that might be even for the better. He'll know better what to work on in the offseason. It's not rushing him to give him that opportunity and learning experience. I assume he could still go to the Arizona fall League.
This isn't an issue anymore bakker since teams all over MLB now are signing their young stars to LT deals way before they reach their free agent walk season.
IF JJW is the player most seems to think he'll be, then he'll get locked down w/that LT deal.
Not bringing him up now is yet another idiotic Mo decision.
I think it's more of a Mo being a jackass situation. He knows the fans want to see Wetherholt and he's being a jerk about it. And I dont believe him sitting the day Bally's carried the Memphis game was a coincidence either. Just Mozeliak being spiteful.
Its unreal. Why an owner would support this behavior. And why they seem intent on pissing off their customers.
IMO it's legitimately insane/ unhinged/ irrational for you to believe that Mo is behaving out of spite toward fans, rather than just having different priorities which are quite arguably dumb.
Maybe you inhabit a different reality than me, but in mine the people in highly paid, public facing positions don't generally behave like kindergartners. And they certainly don't care enough about us plebes to make decisions based purely on rage baiting us. You may be suffering paranoid delusions.
bakker wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 14:25 pm
First of all I think almost everyone understands the issue of the 40 man rule. Somewhat relevant to their decision? Maybe but looking at the 40 man roster it hardly seems to be an overriding issue. Surely they're not going to keep him in the minors until they have to (ye ads) add him or subject him to the rule 5 draft. We can surely agree on that.
If they lose a year of control then that's a very important issue. It's my understanding though if he comes up after 9/1 that's not an issue. Is that not correct?
It would seem if they don't lose a year of control the exposure he would get from playing in 20 plus games would be very important in his development. If he struggles somewhat then that might be even for the better. He'll know better what to work on in the offseason. It's not rushing him to give him that opportunity and learning experience. I assume he could still go to the Arizona fall League.
This isn't an issue anymore bakker since teams all over MLB now are signing their young stars to LT deals way before they reach their free agent walk season.
IF JJW is the player most seems to think he'll be, then he'll get locked down w/that LT deal.
Not bringing him up now is yet another idiotic Mo decision.
I think it's more of a Mo being a jackass situation. He knows the fans want to see Wetherholt and he's being a jerk about it. And I dont believe him sitting the day Bally's carried the Memphis game was a coincidence either. Just Mozeliak being spiteful.
Its unreal. Why an owner would support this behavior. And why they seem intent on pissing off their customers.
IMO it's legitimately insane/ unhinged/ irrational for you to believe that Mo is behaving out of spite toward fans, rather than just having different priorities which are quite arguably dumb.
Maybe you inhabit a different reality than me, but in mine the people in highly paid, public facing positions don't generally behave like kindergartners. And they certainly don't care enough about us plebes to make decisions based purely on rage baiting us. You may be suffering paranoid delusions.
Then how do you explain his actions, inaction, and obvious disdain for the fans? Its either spite or stupidity. And I dont believe he and the ownership are all that stupid. And they better start caring about us plebes. We dont buy tickets, they lose money.
bakker wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 14:25 pm
First of all I think almost everyone understands the issue of the 40 man rule. Somewhat relevant to their decision? Maybe but looking at the 40 man roster it hardly seems to be an overriding issue. Surely they're not going to keep him in the minors until they have to (ye ads) add him or subject him to the rule 5 draft. We can surely agree on that.
If they lose a year of control then that's a very important issue. It's my understanding though if he comes up after 9/1 that's not an issue. Is that not correct?
It would seem if they don't lose a year of control the exposure he would get from playing in 20 plus games would be very important in his development. If he struggles somewhat then that might be even for the better. He'll know better what to work on in the offseason. It's not rushing him to give him that opportunity and learning experience. I assume he could still go to the Arizona fall League.
This isn't an issue anymore bakker since teams all over MLB now are signing their young stars to LT deals way before they reach their free agent walk season.
IF JJW is the player most seems to think he'll be, then he'll get locked down w/that LT deal.
Not bringing him up now is yet another idiotic Mo decision.
I think it's more of a Mo being a jackass situation. He knows the fans want to see Wetherholt and he's being a jerk about it. And I dont believe him sitting the day Bally's carried the Memphis game was a coincidence either. Just Mozeliak being spiteful.
Its unreal. Why an owner would support this behavior. And why they seem intent on pissing off their customers.
People have joked Mo must have pics of BDWjr, makes you wonder.
therzog29 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 13:29 pm
I keep seeing post after post complaining about the Cards not bringing up Weatherholt for a cup of coffee this year. I don’t think many of you have any understanding of the reasons why he isn’t being brought up. He obviously has done everything to prove that he deserves an opportunity, but Mo and or Bloom are doing the smart thing here. (I am no fan of Mo)
Currently he isn’t on the 40 man roster, and because of his status he isn’t eligible for the rule 5 draft and doesn’t need to be protected. If he is brought up to the majors, he will have to be added to the 40 man which will take another spot that the cards could use to protect another player from being picked off their roster through the rule 5 draft.
Also by not starting his service time until opening day they can actually push back his first year of arbitration until 2029. Saving the cards some payroll down the line. If they delay his debut until mid April, which I think they will, he won’t be eligible for arbitration until 2030 and pushes his free agency back an additional year. After 2032 season.
My money is on seeing JJ sometime in mid April of 2026.
I think this would be the smartest move the front office could make.
The 40-man isn't actually an issue, there are plenty of people they can ditch and they only need to add like 7 or 8 guys.
The service time also isn't an issue, since by 2029 the org should already have extended JJ, or he will be so disappointing that he isn't even going to be making that much in arbitration.
I'd bet the main issue is that there simply aren't enough ABs for him unless one of Gorman/Saggese/Winn gets injured or demoted. Makes no sense to promote him to the bench. I'd consider demoting Saggese for him but I don't think there's any way Mo/Oli does that.
+1 on your reasoning, but I’d still bring him up, especially with Donovan on IL. Use Sagesse more at 3b and stop the Gorman experiment. Gorman should be a DH.
Burly is hurt now which may open up some ABs, but if he weren't there still wouldn't be enough ABs for both Gorman at DH and JJ at IF. Herrera and Burly both DH, while they all share with Noot and Walker in the OF. And we may disagree but imo Gorman has earned the ABs.
So still the only way JJ gets enough PT is if one more of the IFs get hurt or demoted.
Saying there are not enough ABs for JJ is in many ways worse than the 40 man roster issue being brought up. He is our top prospect, you make ABs for your top prospect, period. What else do we need to know about Gorman? He is a low average hitter with plus power who is a minus fielder at 3B. He is never going to be good enough on a championship team because his fielding is not good enough. He is a bench player / platoon DH. Saggese, is a no power no walk gy who hits for an OK average and whose fielding is not great. He is a bench player. He is worse than Donovan at every single aspect of the game and people call Donovan a utility player...What will more ABs for either Gorman or Saggese tell us we don't already know? Giving JJ ABs and some field playing time will allow him to understand what he needs to work on to be ready on opening day in 2026. That is far more important than ABs for either Gorman or Saggese.
I agree with you on Saggese, disagree on Gorman. He has rebounded from last year and improved both his K and BB rate. The more ABs he gets the higher chance he figures out how to put it all together and fully incorporate his power. And if he does that he's a Schwarber-like player.
Hence the part of my comment on Gorman being a DH. He is not good enough in the field. Put Herrera in LF, Wetherholdt at 3B and Gorman as the DH. That only reduces ABs for Walker or Nootbar. I haven't totally given up on Gorman as a hitter, but, I have as a full time infielder.
therzog29 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 13:29 pm
I keep seeing post after post complaining about the Cards not bringing up Weatherholt for a cup of coffee this year. I don’t think many of you have any understanding of the reasons why he isn’t being brought up. He obviously has done everything to prove that he deserves an opportunity, but Mo and or Bloom are doing the smart thing here. (I am no fan of Mo)
Currently he isn’t on the 40 man roster, and because of his status he isn’t eligible for the rule 5 draft and doesn’t need to be protected. If he is brought up to the majors, he will have to be added to the 40 man which will take another spot that the cards could use to protect another player from being picked off their roster through the rule 5 draft.
Also by not starting his service time until opening day they can actually push back his first year of arbitration until 2029. Saving the cards some payroll down the line. If they delay his debut until mid April, which I think they will, he won’t be eligible for arbitration until 2030 and pushes his free agency back an additional year. After 2032 season.
My money is on seeing JJ sometime in mid April of 2026.
I think this would be the smartest move the front office could make.
The 40-man isn't actually an issue, there are plenty of people they can ditch and they only need to add like 7 or 8 guys.
The service time also isn't an issue, since by 2029 the org should already have extended JJ, or he will be so disappointing that he isn't even going to be making that much in arbitration.
I'd bet the main issue is that there simply aren't enough ABs for him unless one of Gorman/Saggese/Winn gets injured or demoted. Makes no sense to promote him to the bench. I'd consider demoting Saggese for him but I don't think there's any way Mo/Oli does that.
+1 on your reasoning, but I’d still bring him up, especially with Donovan on IL. Use Sagesse more at 3b and stop the Gorman experiment. Gorman should be a DH.
Burly is hurt now which may open up some ABs, but if he weren't there still wouldn't be enough ABs for both Gorman at DH and JJ at IF. Herrera and Burly both DH, while they all share with Noot and Walker in the OF. And we may disagree but imo Gorman has earned the ABs.
So still the only way JJ gets enough PT is if one more of the IFs get hurt or demoted.
Saying there are not enough ABs for JJ is in many ways worse than the 40 man roster issue being brought up. He is our top prospect, you make ABs for your top prospect, period. What else do we need to know about Gorman? He is a low average hitter with plus power who is a minus fielder at 3B. He is never going to be good enough on a championship team because his fielding is not good enough. He is a bench player / platoon DH. Saggese, is a no power no walk gy who hits for an OK average and whose fielding is not great. He is a bench player. He is worse than Donovan at every single aspect of the game and people call Donovan a utility player...What will more ABs for either Gorman or Saggese tell us we don't already know? Giving JJ ABs and some field playing time will allow him to understand what he needs to work on to be ready on opening day in 2026. That is far more important than ABs for either Gorman or Saggese.
Good write. I don’t think he will get regular playing time thus messing with his rythm and sync. Hitters need to hit, not sit. I feel he will sit often. I don’t think that type experience is helpful.
If the Cards brought Wetherholdt up and he sat often, wouldn't that tell us everything we need to know about Oli as well?
bakker wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 14:25 pm
First of all I think almost everyone understands the issue of the 40 man rule. Somewhat relevant to their decision? Maybe but looking at the 40 man roster it hardly seems to be an overriding issue. Surely they're not going to keep him in the minors until they have to (ye ads) add him or subject him to the rule 5 draft. We can surely agree on that.
If they lose a year of control then that's a very important issue. It's my understanding though if he comes up after 9/1 that's not an issue. Is that not correct?
It would seem if they don't lose a year of control the exposure he would get from playing in 20 plus games would be very important in his development. If he struggles somewhat then that might be even for the better. He'll know better what to work on in the offseason. It's not rushing him to give him that opportunity and learning experience. I assume he could still go to the Arizona fall League.
This isn't an issue anymore bakker since teams all over MLB now are signing their young stars to LT deals way before they reach their free agent walk season.
IF JJW is the player most seems to think he'll be, then he'll get locked down w/that LT deal.
Not bringing him up now is yet another idiotic Mo decision.
I think it's more of a Mo being a jackass situation. He knows the fans want to see Wetherholt and he's being a jerk about it. And I dont believe him sitting the day Bally's carried the Memphis game was a coincidence either. Just Mozeliak being spiteful.
Its unreal. Why an owner would support this behavior. And why they seem intent on pissing off their customers.
People have joked Mo must have pics of BDWjr, makes you wonder.
Where are people getting the information that JJ loses a year of service if he comes up this year and doesn’t exceed the 45 days (now not possible) or 130 ABs (he won’t exceed that either)?
Rule
A player is deemed to have reached "one year" of Major League service upon accruing 172 days in a given year. Upon reaching six years of Major League service, a player becomes eligible for free agency at the end of that season (unless he has already signed a contract extension that covers one or more of his free-agent seasons).
ClassicO wrote: ↑23 Aug 2025 14:13 pm
Where are people getting the information that JJ loses a year of service if he comes up this year and doesn’t exceed the 45 days (now not possible) or 130 ABs (he won’t exceed that either)?
Rule
A player is deemed to have reached "one year" of Major League service upon accruing 172 days in a given year. Upon reaching six years of Major League service, a player becomes eligible for free agency at the end of that season (unless he has already signed a contract extension that covers one or more of his free-agent seasons).
Just the crowd that doesn't want him up yet spreading misinformation.
