For the Matheny haters

[Ozziesfan41]

Well cardinals missed the post season in 2016 and 2017 under MM and in 2018 were 47-46 under him when he was fired Shildt took over and the team went 41-28 the rest of the way then went on to make the post season all 3 seasons under shildt. So people desperately trying to claim MM was great are wrong. Mo is an idiot he hired an idiot manager in MM

[OldRed]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance/_/year/2017

His last full year as manager.

Enjoy the current mess. Make sure to pay the increased price for season tickets next year so can enjoy the 2026 mess.

JFC...you've started a thread that will soon be hijacked by a front office (donkey) kisser....just watch!

What would make you think that?

[Dewey Kuey]

Yep all you got to do is get good players and hire a dumb manager like MM to make the moves for you and you too can make the playoffs and get to the world series.

I can't believe how many knuckleheads there are on here. No wonder you need someone like Melville to train you.

[OldRed]

Yep all you got to do is get good players and hire a dumb manager like MM to make the moves for you and you too can make the playoffs and get to the world series.

I can't believe how many knuckleheads there are on here. No wonder you need someone like Melville to train you.

Great players made Casey Stengel a great manager.

[Lloyd Braun]

It's hilarious that everyone generally accepts now that Mo hamstrings Marmol, hamstrung Shildt, and that he is a terrible evaluator of talent, drafting, trades, FA signings and roster management, and that he has 100% control of basically every single decision that is made on field.

But refuse to re-examine the the possibility that the exact same held true about Mo during Matheny's years too.

From 2014 - 2017 we didn't even have a real MOTO bat. Certainly didn't have a single legit cleanup hitter in any of those 4 years. Holliday was at the end of his run. And the moment Matheny did something against Mo's wishes (benching Fowler in year 2 of his $80 million fiasco), he got fired.

Matheny never once in any season, had a legit MOTO bat/defensive wizard - a Complete star player. Shildt and Marmol got Goldy and Arenado. TLR got Rolen, Edmonds and Pujols. Guys that had the entire package.

Mo did not acquire a single top of the rotation pitcher during Matheny's entire tenure, or Shildt's for that matter. Gray is the closest thing he's had to brining in a TOR in his entire 18 years as POBO.

These are fair points, but Matheny's teams got worse and worse with baseball 101 fundamentals as the years went by. So much so that when Shildt took over, both defense and baserunning got better, almost overnight. That's part of why the Cardinals were 41-28 with Shildt and 48-47 with Matheny. You're right in that Matheny wasn't given a great roster, but fundamentally sound baseball is a product of coaching. And by the middle of 2018, the Cardinals had lost their way in that regard, and Matheny had lost the team. Making a change was necessary. At that point, nobody cared, and rightfully so that he lead the Cardinals to the WS 5 years prior.

Firing Shildt was THE mistake, not Matheny.

I think I covered that in my original post

"To think how bad Matheny had it mid-tenure... in 2016, he was given a defensive infield of Carpenter, Adams, Moss, Diaz, Garcia and Gyorko to handle an all ground ball pitching staff. Wong was the only legit infielder on that roster but hit .215.

Mo's fix to that was bringing in Fowler, Ozuna and Jose Martinez "

The idea that Shildt was the reason the fundamentals improved is not accurate.

Here is what happened in 2018:

Paul DeJong (a good glove at SS) broke his wrist and missed the last 8 weeks of Matheny's tenure. He returned from DL the exact same day Matheny got fired. Until he came back, we were forced to go with Greg Garcia and Yairo Munoz at SS, because we didn't have an actual player that could play the position on the roster when DeJong was hurt. Those two were miserable filling in.

Also, Gyorko was hurt. And while, Jedd wasn't exactly Mr. Gold Glove, his injury forced us to move Carpenter back to third base, putting Jose Martinez at first base. Jose could barely catch the ball, and couldn't save any fielders' throws like even an average first baseman can.

Gyorko returned from injury the week after Matheny was fired.

In the outfield, we had three below average fielders Mo put out there. Ozuna was brought in to play LF. That moved Pham to Centerfield, where has was exposed. Fowler, who was never a good fielder, was in RF while hitting .180.

Within the two weeks of the Matheny firing, Pham got traded and Fowler got hurt. Bader and Tyler O'Neil got added to the roster and started getting playing time.

Literally, almost the entire defensive lineup was replaced. New SS, new 3B, new 1B, new CF, new RF.
That is why the team improved in fundamentals. It had nothing to do with Shildt.

Then in 2019, we add a gold glover in Goldschmidt and Edman, while Bader became a first year starter. Of course the team was one of the best defensive teams in the game.

They literally went from horrendous defensive personnel to great defensive personnel almost overnight.

in 2013, the Cardinals didn't have very good speed or range in the field, but they caught everything that was hit to them and finished 1st in the National League with fewest errors. If Matheny was so bad, how did that happen? It was because they had reliable players.

In 2014, the St. Louis Cardinals ranked first in Defensive Runs Saved (DRS) in all of Major League Baseball, according to MLB.com

In 2015, the St. Louis Cardinals ranked 7th in Defensive Runs Saved (DRS)

If Matheny was so bad fundamentally, then why was the team one of the most fundamentally sound teams in the entire game for his first 4 years?

It wasn't until 2016, when the personnel on the field changed, that the team collapsed defensively. That's 100 percent on Mo.

2016, 2017 and the first half in 2018 is 100% because of the players Mo chose. And it wasn't until the entire defensive lineup was changed mid way through 2018 that it turned around.

[HighHeet]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

Matheny inherited a WS winning Rolls Royce and he drove it over the cliff, pathetic manager.

Yadi
Waino
Lynn
Lohse
J. Garcia
Motte
Holliday
Beltran
Berkman
Craig
Freese
Furcal
M. Carp

Right on, Rock. He was TERRIBLE! For example, not mentioned is his record at KC: 165 wins - 219 losses. So yeah, he was TERRIBLE! His abuse of bullpen arms is well known.

[Ozziesfan41]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

Matheny inherited a WS winning Rolls Royce and he drove it over the cliff, pathetic manager.

Yadi
Waino
Lynn
Lohse
J. Garcia
Motte
Holliday
Beltran
Berkman
Craig
Freese
Furcal
M. Carp

Right on, Rock. He was TERRIBLE! For example, not mentioned is his record at KC: 165 wins - 219 losses. So yeah, he was TERRIBLE! His abuse of bullpen arms is well known.

Hes such an awesome manager I’m shocked he hasn’t been hired after the second time he was fired

[JohnnyMO]

Matheny seems like a really nice guy. He was average at best as a manager.

Bemoaning Shildt’s firing makes sense. Not Matheny’s.

[ecleme22]

I think I covered that in my original post

"To think how bad Matheny had it mid-tenure... in 2016, he was given a defensive infield of Carpenter, Adams, Moss, Diaz, Garcia and Gyorko to handle an all ground ball pitching staff. Wong was the only legit infielder on that roster but hit .215.

Mo's fix to that was bringing in Fowler, Ozuna and Jose Martinez "

The idea that Shildt was the reason the fundamentals improved is not accurate.

Here is what happened in 2018:

Paul DeJong (a good glove at SS) broke his wrist and missed the last 8 weeks of Matheny's tenure. He returned from DL the exact same day Matheny got fired. Until he came back, we were forced to go with Greg Garcia and Yairo Munoz at SS, because we didn't have an actual player that could play the position on the roster when DeJong was hurt. Those two were miserable filling in.

Also, Gyorko was hurt. And while, Jedd wasn't exactly Mr. Gold Glove, his injury forced us to move Carpenter back to third base, putting Jose Martinez at first base. Jose could barely catch the ball, and couldn't save any fielders' throws like even an average first baseman can.

Gyorko returned from injury the week after Matheny was fired.

In the outfield, we had three below average fielders Mo put out there. Ozuna was brought in to play LF. That moved Pham to Centerfield, where has was exposed. Fowler, who was never a good fielder, was in RF while hitting .180.

Within the two weeks of the Matheny firing, Pham got traded and Fowler got hurt. Bader and Tyler O'Neil got added to the roster and started getting playing time.

Literally, almost the entire defensive lineup was replaced. New SS, new 3B, new 1B, new CF, new RF.
That is why the team improved in fundamentals. It had nothing to do with Shildt.

Then in 2019, we add a gold glover in Goldschmidt and Edman, while Bader became a first year starter. Of course the team was one of the best defensive teams in the game.

They literally went from horrendous defensive personnel to great defensive personnel almost overnight.

in 2013, the Cardinals didn't have very good speed or range in the field, but they caught everything that was hit to them and finished 1st in the National League with fewest errors. If Matheny was so bad, how did that happen? It was because they had reliable players.

In 2014, the St. Louis Cardinals ranked first in Defensive Runs Saved (DRS) in all of Major League Baseball, according to MLB.com

In 2015, the St. Louis Cardinals ranked 7th in Defensive Runs Saved (DRS)

If Matheny was so bad fundamentally, then why was the team one of the most fundamentally sound teams in the entire game for his first 4 years?

It wasn't until 2016, when the personnel on the field changed, that the team collapsed defensively. That's 100 percent on Mo.

2016, 2017 and the first half in 2018 is 100% because of the players Mo chose. And it wasn't until the entire defensive lineup was changed mid way through 2018 that it turned around.

2018
1. JMart was given 1b before the season started.
2. Carp was moved to 3B
3. Gyorko was relatively healthly other than a 15 day DL stint in April.
4. DeJong got injured, but Garcia did a decent job at SS.


You want an example of MM coaching, here it is: JMart was a defensive liability at 1b, no doubt. Did you know JMart had like 40 COMPLETE GAMES at 1b through the first 6 weeks of the 2018 season? Meaning MM never def-replaced him.

[An Old Friend]

It's hilarious that everyone generally accepts now that Mo hamstrings Marmol, hamstrung Shildt, and that he is a terrible evaluator of talent, drafting, trades, FA signings and roster management, and that he has 100% control of basically every single decision that is made on field.

But refuse to re-examine the the possibility that the exact same held true about Mo during Matheny's years too.

From 2014 - 2017 we didn't even have a real MOTO bat. Certainly didn't have a single legit cleanup hitter in any of those 4 years. Holliday was at the end of his run. And the moment Matheny did something against Mo's wishes (benching Fowler in year 2 of his $80 million fiasco), he got fired.

Matheny never once in any season, had a legit MOTO bat/defensive wizard - a Complete star player. Shildt and Marmol got Goldy and Arenado. TLR got Rolen, Edmonds and Pujols. Guys that had the entire package.

Mo did not acquire a single top of the rotation pitcher during Matheny's entire tenure, or Shildt's for that matter. Gray is the closest thing he's had to brining in a TOR in his entire 18 years as POBO.

These are fair points, but Matheny's teams got worse and worse with baseball 101 fundamentals as the years went by. So much so that when Shildt took over, both defense and baserunning got better, almost overnight. That's part of why the Cardinals were 41-28 with Shildt and 48-47 with Matheny. You're right in that Matheny wasn't given a great roster, but fundamentally sound baseball is a product of coaching. And by the middle of 2018, the Cardinals had lost their way in that regard, and Matheny had lost the team. Making a change was necessary. At that point, nobody cared, and rightfully so that he lead the Cardinals to the WS 5 years prior.

Firing Shildt was THE mistake, not Matheny.

I think I covered that in my original post

"To think how bad Matheny had it mid-tenure... in 2016, he was given a defensive infield of Carpenter, Adams, Moss, Diaz, Garcia and Gyorko to handle an all ground ball pitching staff. Wong was the only legit infielder on that roster but hit .215.

Mo's fix to that was bringing in Fowler, Ozuna and Jose Martinez "

The idea that Shildt was the reason the fundamentals improved is not accurate.

Here is what happened in 2018:

Paul DeJong (a good glove at SS) broke his wrist and missed the last 8 weeks of Matheny's tenure. He returned from DL the exact same day Matheny got fired. Until he came back, we were forced to go with Greg Garcia and Yairo Munoz at SS, because we didn't have an actual player that could play the position on the roster when DeJong was hurt. Those two were miserable filling in.

Also, Gyorko was hurt. And while, Jedd wasn't exactly Mr. Gold Glove, his injury forced us to move Carpenter back to third base, putting Jose Martinez at first base. Jose could barely catch the ball, and couldn't save any fielders' throws like even an average first baseman can.

Gyorko returned from injury the week after Matheny was fired.

In the outfield, we had three below average fielders Mo put out there. Ozuna was brought in to play LF. That moved Pham to Centerfield, where has was exposed. Fowler, who was never a good fielder, was in RF while hitting .180.

Within the two weeks of the Matheny firing, Pham got traded and Fowler got hurt. Bader and Tyler O'Neil got added to the roster and started getting playing time.

Literally, almost the entire defensive lineup was replaced. New SS, new 3B, new 1B, new CF, new RF.
That is why the team improved in fundamentals. It had nothing to do with Shildt.

Then in 2019, we add a gold glover in Goldschmidt and Edman, while Bader became a first year starter. Of course the team was one of the best defensive teams in the game.

They literally went from horrendous defensive personnel to great defensive personnel almost overnight.

in 2013, the Cardinals didn't have very good speed or range in the field, but they caught everything that was hit to them and finished 1st in the National League with fewest errors. If Matheny was so bad, how did that happen? It was because they had reliable players.

In 2014, the St. Louis Cardinals ranked first in Defensive Runs Saved (DRS) in all of Major League Baseball, according to MLB.com

In 2015, the St. Louis Cardinals ranked 7th in Defensive Runs Saved (DRS)

If Matheny was so bad fundamentally, then why was the team one of the most fundamentally sound teams in the entire game for his first 4 years?

It wasn't until 2016, when the personnel on the field changed, that the team collapsed defensively. That's 100 percent on Mo.

2016, 2017 and the first half in 2018 is 100% because of the players Mo chose. And it wasn't until the entire defensive lineup was changed mid way through 2018 that it turned around.

It’s nice to see someone lay this out.

The idea that Shildt fixed the defense by his presence and focus on fundamentals seemingly overnight was always a preposterous narrative that some fans desperately wanted to believe.

[An Old Friend]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

Matheny inherited a WS winning Rolls Royce and he drove it over the cliff, pathetic manager.

Yadi
Waino
Lynn
Lohse
J. Garcia
Motte
Holliday
Beltran
Berkman
Craig
Freese
Furcal
M. Carp

Right on, Rock. He was TERRIBLE! For example, not mentioned is his record at KC: 165 wins - 219 losses. So yeah, he was TERRIBLE! His abuse of bullpen arms is well known.

Spoken like someone who hasn’t looked at those Kansas City rosters.

His record there was solid considering what he was working with. There was no chance of success in that role.

[ecleme22]

It's hilarious that everyone generally accepts now that Mo hamstrings Marmol, hamstrung Shildt, and that he is a terrible evaluator of talent, drafting, trades, FA signings and roster management, and that he has 100% control of basically every single decision that is made on field.

But refuse to re-examine the the possibility that the exact same held true about Mo during Matheny's years too.

From 2014 - 2017 we didn't even have a real MOTO bat. Certainly didn't have a single legit cleanup hitter in any of those 4 years. Holliday was at the end of his run. And the moment Matheny did something against Mo's wishes (benching Fowler in year 2 of his $80 million fiasco), he got fired.

Matheny never once in any season, had a legit MOTO bat/defensive wizard - a Complete star player. Shildt and Marmol got Goldy and Arenado. TLR got Rolen, Edmonds and Pujols. Guys that had the entire package.

Mo did not acquire a single top of the rotation pitcher during Matheny's entire tenure, or Shildt's for that matter. Gray is the closest thing he's had to brining in a TOR in his entire 18 years as POBO.

These are fair points, but Matheny's teams got worse and worse with baseball 101 fundamentals as the years went by. So much so that when Shildt took over, both defense and baserunning got better, almost overnight. That's part of why the Cardinals were 41-28 with Shildt and 48-47 with Matheny. You're right in that Matheny wasn't given a great roster, but fundamentally sound baseball is a product of coaching. And by the middle of 2018, the Cardinals had lost their way in that regard, and Matheny had lost the team. Making a change was necessary. At that point, nobody cared, and rightfully so that he lead the Cardinals to the WS 5 years prior.

Firing Shildt was THE mistake, not Matheny.

I think I covered that in my original post

"To think how bad Matheny had it mid-tenure... in 2016, he was given a defensive infield of Carpenter, Adams, Moss, Diaz, Garcia and Gyorko to handle an all ground ball pitching staff. Wong was the only legit infielder on that roster but hit .215.

Mo's fix to that was bringing in Fowler, Ozuna and Jose Martinez "

The idea that Shildt was the reason the fundamentals improved is not accurate.

Here is what happened in 2018:

Paul DeJong (a good glove at SS) broke his wrist and missed the last 8 weeks of Matheny's tenure. He returned from DL the exact same day Matheny got fired. Until he came back, we were forced to go with Greg Garcia and Yairo Munoz at SS, because we didn't have an actual player that could play the position on the roster when DeJong was hurt. Those two were miserable filling in.

Also, Gyorko was hurt. And while, Jedd wasn't exactly Mr. Gold Glove, his injury forced us to move Carpenter back to third base, putting Jose Martinez at first base. Jose could barely catch the ball, and couldn't save any fielders' throws like even an average first baseman can.

Gyorko returned from injury the week after Matheny was fired.

In the outfield, we had three below average fielders Mo put out there. Ozuna was brought in to play LF. That moved Pham to Centerfield, where has was exposed. Fowler, who was never a good fielder, was in RF while hitting .180.

Within the two weeks of the Matheny firing, Pham got traded and Fowler got hurt. Bader and Tyler O'Neil got added to the roster and started getting playing time.

Literally, almost the entire defensive lineup was replaced. New SS, new 3B, new 1B, new CF, new RF.
That is why the team improved in fundamentals. It had nothing to do with Shildt.

Then in 2019, we add a gold glover in Goldschmidt and Edman, while Bader became a first year starter. Of course the team was one of the best defensive teams in the game.

They literally went from horrendous defensive personnel to great defensive personnel almost overnight.

in 2013, the Cardinals didn't have very good speed or range in the field, but they caught everything that was hit to them and finished 1st in the National League with fewest errors. If Matheny was so bad, how did that happen? It was because they had reliable players.

In 2014, the St. Louis Cardinals ranked first in Defensive Runs Saved (DRS) in all of Major League Baseball, according to MLB.com

In 2015, the St. Louis Cardinals ranked 7th in Defensive Runs Saved (DRS)

If Matheny was so bad fundamentally, then why was the team one of the most fundamentally sound teams in the entire game for his first 4 years?

It wasn't until 2016, when the personnel on the field changed, that the team collapsed defensively. That's 100 percent on Mo.

2016, 2017 and the first half in 2018 is 100% because of the players Mo chose. And it wasn't until the entire defensive lineup was changed mid way through 2018 that it turned around.

It’s nice to see someone lay this out.

The idea that Shildt fixed the defense by his presence and focus on fundamentals seemingly overnight was always a preposterous narrative that some fans desperately wanted to believe.

There are numerous examples of a in-year change in manager yielding drastically different results.

[ecleme22]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

Matheny inherited a WS winning Rolls Royce and he drove it over the cliff, pathetic manager.

Yadi
Waino
Lynn
Lohse
J. Garcia
Motte
Holliday
Beltran
Berkman
Craig
Freese
Furcal
M. Carp

Right on, Rock. He was TERRIBLE! For example, not mentioned is his record at KC: 165 wins - 219 losses. So yeah, he was TERRIBLE! His abuse of bullpen arms is well known.

Spoken like someone who hasn’t looked at those Kansas City rosters.

His record there was solid considering what he was working with. There was no chance of success in that role.

I don’t think you can judge a manager strictly on W/L record.

And I don’t think KC was when they fired Matheny…

[Ozziesfan41]

I think I covered that in my original post

"To think how bad Matheny had it mid-tenure... in 2016, he was given a defensive infield of Carpenter, Adams, Moss, Diaz, Garcia and Gyorko to handle an all ground ball pitching staff. Wong was the only legit infielder on that roster but hit .215.

Mo's fix to that was bringing in Fowler, Ozuna and Jose Martinez "

The idea that Shildt was the reason the fundamentals improved is not accurate.

Here is what happened in 2018:

Paul DeJong (a good glove at SS) broke his wrist and missed the last 8 weeks of Matheny's tenure. He returned from DL the exact same day Matheny got fired. Until he came back, we were forced to go with Greg Garcia and Yairo Munoz at SS, because we didn't have an actual player that could play the position on the roster when DeJong was hurt. Those two were miserable filling in.

Also, Gyorko was hurt. And while, Jedd wasn't exactly Mr. Gold Glove, his injury forced us to move Carpenter back to third base, putting Jose Martinez at first base. Jose could barely catch the ball, and couldn't save any fielders' throws like even an average first baseman can.

Gyorko returned from injury the week after Matheny was fired.

In the outfield, we had three below average fielders Mo put out there. Ozuna was brought in to play LF. That moved Pham to Centerfield, where has was exposed. Fowler, who was never a good fielder, was in RF while hitting .180.

Within the two weeks of the Matheny firing, Pham got traded and Fowler got hurt. Bader and Tyler O'Neil got added to the roster and started getting playing time.

Literally, almost the entire defensive lineup was replaced. New SS, new 3B, new 1B, new CF, new RF.
That is why the team improved in fundamentals. It had nothing to do with Shildt.

Then in 2019, we add a gold glover in Goldschmidt and Edman, while Bader became a first year starter. Of course the team was one of the best defensive teams in the game.

They literally went from horrendous defensive personnel to great defensive personnel almost overnight.

in 2013, the Cardinals didn't have very good speed or range in the field, but they caught everything that was hit to them and finished 1st in the National League with fewest errors. If Matheny was so bad, how did that happen? It was because they had reliable players.

In 2014, the St. Louis Cardinals ranked first in Defensive Runs Saved (DRS) in all of Major League Baseball, according to MLB.com

In 2015, the St. Louis Cardinals ranked 7th in Defensive Runs Saved (DRS)

If Matheny was so bad fundamentally, then why was the team one of the most fundamentally sound teams in the entire game for his first 4 years?

It wasn't until 2016, when the personnel on the field changed, that the team collapsed defensively. That's 100 percent on Mo.

2016, 2017 and the first half in 2018 is 100% because of the players Mo chose. And it wasn't until the entire defensive lineup was changed mid way through 2018 that it turned around.

2018
1. JMart was given 1b before the season started.
2. Carp was moved to 3B
3. Gyorko was relatively healthly other than a 15 day DL stint in April.
4. DeJong got injured, but Garcia did a decent job at SS.


You want an example of MM coaching, here it is: JMart was a defensive liability at 1b, no doubt. Did you know JMart had like 40 COMPLETE GAMES at 1b through the first 6 weeks of the 2018 season? Meaning MM never def-replaced him.

And who can forget 2016 he started Tommy Pham 1 game in September while playing moss everyday to go .099 9-91. Even if Pham wasn’t hitting well he was hitting better than moss and played much better defense. The cardinals missed the playoffs by 1 game because MM preferred the poor defensive non hitting moss over Pham who speed power and defense could have helped the team in that stretch

[rockondlouie]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

Matheny inherited a WS winning Rolls Royce and he drove it over the cliff, pathetic manager.

Yadi
Waino
Lynn
Lohse
J. Garcia
Motte
Holliday
Beltran
Berkman
Craig
Freese
Furcal
M. Carp

Right on, Rock. He was TERRIBLE! For example, not mentioned is his record at KC: 165 wins - 219 losses. So yeah, he was TERRIBLE! His abuse of bullpen arms is well known.

Thx HH

Along w/Oli the Worst!

And how many RP's career did he destroy because he didn't know how to run a BP?

[JohnnyMO]

This team is so bad we’ve had to revert to arguing over playing time decisions a manager made in 2016.