Philosophical Differences

[JohnnyMO]

The Shildt thing was long enough ago that I don’t think about it and get annoyed very often. Now I’m annoyed all over again…Thanks for the reminder.

[WLTFE]

Let me give yall a little history lesson

Back in 2011, when TLR resigned, it was apparent that BDW and Mo were absolutely overjoyed, because “The Load” was going out the door at years end.

TLR had the gravitas to challenge the GM and by proxy the owner to improve his teams and he wanted certain players here and certain players gone

Mo got a shot in at TLR by trading away Chris Duncan too

BDW and Mo starting in 2012 wanted to control everything with no backtalk from dugout, hired Matheny who was on verge of bankruptcy, hired Shildt who was quickly fired when he challenged Mo, and Marmol who is one of the youngest and lowest paid MLB managers

Toss in HackGate in 2015 when BDW and Mo played the plausible deniability card and orchestrated a back room deal with Manfred to make Correa the fall guy, don’t forget BDW chaired the committee that hired Manfred, and also the Judge in Texas didn’t allow Correa to say anything at his trial, Correa played nice, served time and I’m sure got a fat hush money wad for doing so.

It’s literally been a feces show for about a decade.

They made their bed and now they have to lay in it.

They killed a Golden Goose due to their own insecurities and poor decision making

This franchise is close to being the Pirates right now and I doubt BDW or BDW3 will give Bloom free rein to run the organization as he sees fit.

The owner and Mo have put major dent in this Organization that will be Long Lasting.

Buckle up!

You forgot the enormous Sized Ego of MO……he wanted credit so Badly for creating some sort of NEW Cardinals Way that was in place during that season Schildty ran off 17……. The team was going nowhere under this most likely analytically run MO/Gersch system. Schildty deviated and went back to old school Cardinals Baseball……ran off 17 and made playoffs. Thought he had the clout to keep his approach, but as now the famous “winning isn’t everything” quote from Mo clearly exposed……Winning takes a back seat to MO’s SYSTEM and EGO. Fired the 17 in row streak playoff manager……theres your Philosophical Differences. And Schildty all but admitted as much

Nailed it... Cards fans can see what the issues are and who (bleep) up....front Office (donkey) kissers only care about protecting DeTwit and Mo-ran!

[Banner29]

Let me give yall a little history lesson

Back in 2011, when TLR resigned, it was apparent that BDW and Mo were absolutely overjoyed, because “The Load” was going out the door at years end.

TLR had the gravitas to challenge the GM and by proxy the owner to improve his teams and he wanted certain players here and certain players gone

Mo got a shot in at TLR by trading away Chris Duncan too

BDW and Mo starting in 2012 wanted to control everything with no backtalk from dugout, hired Matheny who was on verge of bankruptcy, hired Shildt who was quickly fired when he challenged Mo, and Marmol who is one of the youngest and lowest paid MLB managers

Toss in HackGate in 2015 when BDW and Mo played the plausible deniability card and orchestrated a back room deal with Manfred to make Correa the fall guy, don’t forget BDW chaired the committee that hired Manfred, and also the Judge in Texas didn’t allow Correa to say anything at his trial, Correa played nice, served time and I’m sure got a fat hush money wad for doing so.

It’s literally been a feces show for about a decade.

They made their bed and now they have to lay in it.

They killed a Golden Goose due to their own insecurities and poor decision making

This franchise is close to being the Pirates right now and I doubt BDW or BDW3 will give Bloom free rein to run the organization as he sees fit.

The owner and Mo have put major dent in this Organization that will be Long Lasting.

Buckle up!

You forgot the enormous Sized Ego of MO……he wanted credit so Badly for creating some sort of NEW Cardinals Way that was in place during that season Schildty ran off 17……. The team was going nowhere under this most likely analytically run MO/Gersch system. Schildty deviated and went back to old school Cardinals Baseball……ran off 17 and made playoffs. Thought he had the clout to keep his approach, but as now the famous “winning isn’t everything” quote from Mo clearly exposed……Winning takes a back seat to MO’s SYSTEM and EGO. Fired the 17 in row streak playoff manager……theres your Philosophical Differences. And Schildty all but admitted as much

You just described my “last straw” with Mozo the Clown. I didn’t think much of his “leadership” from 2016 on, but firing Shildt showed the baseball world how petty and stupid Mozo really is.

I think this entire giant Clusterphuck we’re currently experiencing was Solely due to BDW/MO thinking they were the straw that stirred the drink in the TLR era, were jealous, didn’t want to bend to TLR, and wanted to be the Main Character going forward after they led TLR/Dunc out…….and THIS mess is what we have.

I think you’re right. Especially with Mo. He wanted to win a WS his way and his way only or not win one at all.

No doubt in my mind the 2011 championship burned his a** more than anything. It had TLRs fingerprints all over it.

[Bomber1]

Let me give yall a little history lesson

Back in 2011, when TLR resigned, it was apparent that BDW and Mo were absolutely overjoyed, because “The Load” was going out the door at years end.

TLR had the gravitas to challenge the GM and by proxy the owner to improve his teams and he wanted certain players here and certain players gone

Mo got a shot in at TLR by trading away Chris Duncan too

BDW and Mo starting in 2012 wanted to control everything with no backtalk from dugout, hired Matheny who was on verge of bankruptcy, hired Shildt who was quickly fired when he challenged Mo, and Marmol who is one of the youngest and lowest paid MLB managers

Toss in HackGate in 2015 when BDW and Mo played the plausible deniability card and orchestrated a back room deal with Manfred to make Correa the fall guy, don’t forget BDW chaired the committee that hired Manfred, and also the Judge in Texas didn’t allow Correa to say anything at his trial, Correa played nice, served time and I’m sure got a fat hush money wad for doing so.

It’s literally been a feces show for about a decade.

They made their bed and now they have to lay in it.

They killed a Golden Goose due to their own insecurities and poor decision making

This franchise is close to being the Pirates right now and I doubt BDW or BDW3 will give Bloom free rein to run the organization as he sees fit.

The owner and Mo have put major dent in this Organization that will be Long Lasting.

Buckle up!

I think that this is a pretty accurate synopsis especially regarding HackGate. Also I hope you’re mistaken regarding Bloom and ownership.

[Bomber1]

Now the owner has philosophical differences with his fan base

He will never win that battle until product improves

3 possible outcomes

1-Invest in major league roster, won’t happen, BDW will cry poor

2-Let Bloom tear it down to studs, with massive changes to players and manager/coaches

3-Sell the team

The spin coming from team will be infuriating in off season

There’s more misery on the way, BDW killed the Golden Goose

I would prefer # 2 and get this club competitive in 2028 hopefully.

Otherwise I wish they’d sell.

[Stlcardsblues]

I know that Mo did not want to be challenged by his manager. He did not like Tony challenging the GM.

Seriously, was it ever revealed what the “philosophical differences” that Mo had with Mike Shildt? Was it that Shildt was challenging him — or was it Shildt’s decision making in the Cardinals’ playoff game against the Dodgers?

Pathetic.

My gut is Shildt wanted some say in offseason moves and wanted the team to be more aggressive.

[Chubbs0910]

Why would any GM hire 3 straight rookie managers?

[ICCFIM2]

Now the owner has philosophical differences with his fan base

He will never win that battle until product improves

3 possible outcomes

1-Invest in major league roster, won’t happen, BDW will cry poor

2-Let Bloom tear it down to studs, with massive changes to players and manager/coaches

3-Sell the team

The spin coming from team will be infuriating in off season

There’s more misery on the way, BDW killed the Golden Goose

I would prefer # 2 and get this club competitive in 2028 hopefully.

Otherwise I wish they’d sell.

For a long time this ownership was great and had this organization going in the right direction. What is hard to understand is what changed?

Is it a function of BDW III now being in charge and this is his vision and not his father's?

Have the prices of free agents went up so much they just don't want to get involved? If this, how does that explain letting the draft and develop model lag so much?

Given the value of this franchise, the tradition ownership was developing with the team hall of fame inductees, the crowds they were drawing, the complete change in messaging is just difficult to comprehend.

As much as I would like to put this all on the Dewitt's, the small mindedness of MO firing Shildt as pointed out in this thread makes him at least equally culpable, even if he was for the most part carrying out marching orders.

[butsir01]

Now the owner has philosophical differences with his fan base

He will never win that battle until product improves

3 possible outcomes

1-Invest in major league roster, won’t happen, BDW will cry poor

2-Let Bloom tear it down to studs, with massive changes to players and manager/coaches

3-Sell the team

The spin coming from team will be infuriating in off season

There’s more misery on the way, BDW killed the Golden Goose

I would prefer # 2 and get this club competitive in 2028 hopefully.

Otherwise I wish they’d sell.

For a long time this ownership was great and had this organization going in the right direction. What is hard to understand is what changed?

Is it a function of BDW III now being in charge and this is his vision and not his father's?

Have the prices of free agents went up so much they just don't want to get involved? If this, how does that explain letting the draft and develop model lag so much?

Given the value of this franchise, the tradition ownership was developing with the team hall of fame inductees, the crowds they were drawing, the complete change in messaging is just difficult to comprehend.

As much as I would like to put this all on the Dewitt's, the small mindedness of MO firing Shildt as pointed out in this thread makes him at least equally culpable, even if he was for the most part carrying out marching orders.

I see what you are saying. I do not believe the firing of Shildt happened without ownership's approval. Look at the approval of three consecutive managers without MLB managing experience. They had to approve those, too.

[ICCFIM2]

Now the owner has philosophical differences with his fan base

He will never win that battle until product improves

3 possible outcomes

1-Invest in major league roster, won’t happen, BDW will cry poor

2-Let Bloom tear it down to studs, with massive changes to players and manager/coaches

3-Sell the team

The spin coming from team will be infuriating in off season

There’s more misery on the way, BDW killed the Golden Goose

I would prefer # 2 and get this club competitive in 2028 hopefully.

Otherwise I wish they’d sell.

For a long time this ownership was great and had this organization going in the right direction. What is hard to understand is what changed?

Is it a function of BDW III now being in charge and this is his vision and not his father's?

Have the prices of free agents went up so much they just don't want to get involved? If this, how does that explain letting the draft and develop model lag so much?

Given the value of this franchise, the tradition ownership was developing with the team hall of fame inductees, the crowds they were drawing, the complete change in messaging is just difficult to comprehend.

As much as I would like to put this all on the Dewitt's, the small mindedness of MO firing Shildt as pointed out in this thread makes him at least equally culpable, even if he was for the most part carrying out marching orders.

I see what you are saying. I do not believe the firing of Shildt happened without ownership's approval. Look at the approval of three consecutive managers without MLB managing experience. They had to approve those, too.

I am certain firing Shildt required ownership approval. But absent MO wanting to do so, it would not have happened, hence blaming MO for that one. It all ultimately comes back to ownership. But, MO had a large role in both doing exactly what they wanted to do, but also clearing out the underlings he either did not like or others. Lets not forget the hitting coach fiasco with Jeff Albert, where they cleared out a bunch of long time coaches to make Albert happy who promptly quit the following year. These are all little pieces that led us down this path, one by one. Getting rid of Chris Carpenter is another example from the coaching group.

[butsir01]

Now the owner has philosophical differences with his fan base

He will never win that battle until product improves

3 possible outcomes

1-Invest in major league roster, won’t happen, BDW will cry poor

2-Let Bloom tear it down to studs, with massive changes to players and manager/coaches

3-Sell the team

The spin coming from team will be infuriating in off season

There’s more misery on the way, BDW killed the Golden Goose

I would prefer # 2 and get this club competitive in 2028 hopefully.

Otherwise I wish they’d sell.

For a long time this ownership was great and had this organization going in the right direction. What is hard to understand is what changed?

Is it a function of BDW III now being in charge and this is his vision and not his father's?

Have the prices of free agents went up so much they just don't want to get involved? If this, how does that explain letting the draft and develop model lag so much?

Given the value of this franchise, the tradition ownership was developing with the team hall of fame inductees, the crowds they were drawing, the complete change in messaging is just difficult to comprehend.

As much as I would like to put this all on the Dewitt's, the small mindedness of MO firing Shildt as pointed out in this thread makes him at least equally culpable, even if he was for the most part carrying out marching orders.

I see what you are saying. I do not believe the firing of Shildt happened without ownership's approval. Look at the approval of three consecutive managers without MLB managing experience. They had to approve those, too.

I am certain firing Shildt required ownership approval. But absent MO wanting to do so, it would not have happened, hence blaming MO for that one. It all ultimately comes back to ownership. But, MO had a large role in both doing exactly what they wanted to do, but also clearing out the underlings he either did not like or others. Lets not forget the hitting coach fiasco with Jeff Albert, where they cleared out a bunch of long time coaches to make Albert happy who promptly quit the following year. These are all little pieces that led us down this path, one by one. Getting rid of Chris Carpenter is another example from the coaching group.

Okay, that makes sense. Mo prompted these unhappy changes and management failed to examine their long-term ramifications, to think critically.

[Goldfan]

Now the owner has philosophical differences with his fan base

He will never win that battle until product improves

3 possible outcomes

1-Invest in major league roster, won’t happen, BDW will cry poor

2-Let Bloom tear it down to studs, with massive changes to players and manager/coaches

3-Sell the team

The spin coming from team will be infuriating in off season

There’s more misery on the way, BDW killed the Golden Goose

I would prefer # 2 and get this club competitive in 2028 hopefully.

Otherwise I wish they’d sell.

For a long time this ownership was great and had this organization going in the right direction. What is hard to understand is what changed?

Is it a function of BDW III now being in charge and this is his vision and not his father's?

Have the prices of free agents went up so much they just don't want to get involved? If this, how does that explain letting the draft and develop model lag so much?

Given the value of this franchise, the tradition ownership was developing with the team hall of fame inductees, the crowds they were drawing, the complete change in messaging is just difficult to comprehend.

As much as I would like to put this all on the Dewitt's, the small mindedness of MO firing Shildt as pointed out in this thread makes him at least equally culpable, even if he was for the most part carrying out marching orders.

I outlined what changed in detail above…….
BDW/MO didn’t want TLR clout and influence, thought they could run the show on their own……and after Luhnow/TLR left they were exposed as clueless frauds. It takes awhile to destroy the system that was in place under Jocketty, Luhnow, TLR but eventually the competent baseball men up and down the org were weeded out with MO and his band of incompetents left standing. And the last few seasons ARE what MO produces

[skeezix]

Ownership - with advancing age often comes less energy and enthusiasm. The path has been cleared for BDWIII, who views himself as a real estate-extraordinaire, instead of a baseball executive. This could look like the transition from Gussie/Whitey to ABIII, and we all saw how that turned out.

[Bomber1]

Why would any GM hire 3 straight rookie managers?

What other GM would even have had the opportunity to hire 3 different managers?

Most GM-POBO’s get one chance, maybe 2 to get it right.

[Goldfan]

Ownership - with advancing age often comes less energy and enthusiasm. The path has been cleared for BDWIII, who views himself as a real estate-extraordinaire, instead of a baseball executive. This could look like the transition from Gussie/Whitey to ABIII, and we all saw how that turned out.

Kevin Slaten exposed BDW3 lack of baseball acumen…..hes clueless

[rockondlouie]

Now the owner has philosophical differences with his fan base

He will never win that battle until product improves

3 possible outcomes

1-Invest in major league roster, won’t happen, BDW will cry poor

2-Let Bloom tear it down to studs, with massive changes to players and manager/coaches

3-Sell the team

The spin coming from team will be infuriating in off season

There’s more misery on the way, BDW killed the Golden Goose

#2 is the option I've been saying is the way to go.

And you're spot on, BDWJr/Mo killed the Golden Goose just like ABIII did.

(Wish he'd sell the team but that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon)