Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.
A rookie mistake.
OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.
To say and do what he did came naturally for him nd speaks of his internal thinking. Now, after the fact, he “ learns better.” No. Should have at this level, already known better. That stands out to me.
I agree, Bulldog. Even if you make a mistake of calling out a guy in the heat of the moment after the game, you make up for it. You DO NOT double down and do it again the next day.
It speaks to bias of the mind. His first comments were “himself.” Once it was perceived as not good, we suddenly say he has “ learned;” well, at this level, a wicked tongue should have long ago been placed in check.
It’s who he is. It’s how he thinks. Now, he simply keeps that part of the darkness hidden.
But it still exists.
The guy is not a leader. That has been obvious from day one. When you are on a losing streak and down by a big score and you are joking with guys in the dugout..... that is not trying to create a winning culture. Add that to the LONG list of his failings as a manager...
And we still play .500 ball. What is responsible for that. Sad state of league, mediocre team, poor leader. Luck.
Would another system of leadership gotten more from this team? That’s the question of potential. If so, need a change, if not, the change is in the players.
Yes, I do believe this team could be a little better. More emphasis on trying to manufacture runs. Less days with unfocused effort (commonly once or twice a week). And a mindset that demands excellence. This team possesses none of this. Players have bad games and make delusional statements about "having good stuff" or "taking good swings". Then as mentioned earlier, you see guys laughing it up in the dugout while they are getting drilled on the field.
This leads to what we've had the last 3 years. Mediocrity at best. The team needs a leader. A proven winner. A guy with swagger that can back it up. Not this arrogant pud with no cred.
You all need to stop with the no experience thing. He's had plenty of experience managing. He seems to be a good guy in life too. Does he make mistakes managing? Of course, they all do. Does his style of play make him a target? Well, you play the cards you're dealt. He can't turn Gorman into a contact hitter. He can't turn Noot into a 30 homer guy. He can't make Mikolas, Fedde or Pallante into a number 1 pitcher. Why he gets so much hatred is a question that some of you should pose while looking in the mirror. You bring up Contreras, some of you, and you have to admit Contreras is a kind of a jerk. He was with the Cubs and he still is now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Marmol
Maybe you guys should (A female canine animal, especially a dog) and moan about the quality of talent this team puts on the field instead of beating a dead horse about the manager. I assume my words will go over some of you all's heads.
So oli throwing Contreras under the bus for a [shirt]ty pitching staff (even when it was proven to not be his fault), is OK because you conceived Willson to be a jerk on the Cubs?
But oli showing major jerk tendencies (arrogance, condescending attitude, and trashing players and umpires in the media), leads you to perceive him as a good guy?
Interesting.
Reading his bio, he sounds like a Christian family man, though to be fair that's a low bar now days. Contreras is a jerk. He was a jerk when he insulted Yadi. His actions are that of a jerk, game in and game out, but he's OUR jerk. Contreras was not good defensively behind the plate. As for handling the pitching staff? Well, he had a high standard to live up to and I'm not sure any catcher that have could come close to that bar. Arrogance, condescending, trashing players (who?), umpires? Show me a manager that doesn't put off those vibes. Schildt sure did. LaRussa was famous for it. He told Ozzie that SS would be given to who played the best, then he gave it to Clayton anyway even though Ozzie worked hard and outplayed him. Save your platitudes. It's obvious that you have an axe to grind with Oli. If they were winning you'd find some other reason to trash him. Personally, I don't care if they get another manager or not. Without the on field talent no manager will win consistently.
I would disagree with almost everything in your post. Contreras has praised Yadi. He contacted Yadi for advice when 2023 got off to a rough start. Yadi told Contreras he wasn't the problem. And as for representing the Cardinals, the dude only wants to win.
As for trashing players, your boy oli did it to O'Neill and Contreras within a couple weeks. Maybe you weren't paying attention to that train wreck 2023 season? It was the same year he had his little spat with CB Bucknor. Both acted like petulant children. Bucknor refused a handshake and Lil oli ran crying to the media. Yes, managers and umps argue. But I've never seen a manager take it to the press.
And your TLR - Ozzie argument is nothing. TLR did not trash Ozzie. He stayed quiet while Ozzie was complaining. And when the playoff run heated, Ozzie played.
When arenado said when the team was winning that the last couple of years the team came to the park hoping good things happen instead of expecting things to happen. That means since Molina and Pujols retired the club has had a losing culture and no confidence in itself and that’s on Oli. You can argue he hasn’t had a good team but he obviously isn’t good at creating a good clubhouse culture so he needs to go
hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:34 pm
A rookie mistake.
OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.
To say and do what he did came naturally for him nd speaks of his internal thinking. Now, after the fact, he “ learns better.” No. Should have at this level, already known better. That stands out to me.
I agree, Bulldog. Even if you make a mistake of calling out a guy in the heat of the moment after the game, you make up for it. You DO NOT double down and do it again the next day.
It speaks to bias of the mind. His first comments were “himself.” Once it was perceived as not good, we suddenly say he has “ learned;” well, at this level, a wicked tongue should have long ago been placed in check.
It’s who he is. It’s how he thinks. Now, he simply keeps that part of the darkness hidden.
But it still exists.
The guy is not a leader. That has been obvious from day one. When you are on a losing streak and down by a big score and you are joking with guys in the dugout..... that is not trying to create a winning culture. Add that to the LONG list of his failings as a manager...
And we still play .500 ball. What is responsible for that. Sad state of league, mediocre team, poor leader. Luck.
Would another system of leadership gotten more from this team? That’s the question of potential. If so, need a change, if not, the change is in the players.
Yes, I do believe this team could be a little better. More emphasis on trying to manufacture runs. Less days with unfocused effort (commonly once or twice a week). And a mindset that demands excellence. This team possesses none of this. Players have bad games and make delusional statements about "having good stuff" or "taking good swings". Then as mentioned earlier, you see guys laughing it up in the dugout while they are getting drilled on the field.
This leads to what we've had the last 3 years. Mediocrity at best. The team needs a leader. A proven winner. A guy with swagger that can back it up. Not this arrogant pud with no cred.
You all need to stop with the no experience thing. He's had plenty of experience managing. He seems to be a good guy in life too. Does he make mistakes managing? Of course, they all do. Does his style of play make him a target? Well, you play the cards you're dealt. He can't turn Gorman into a contact hitter. He can't turn Noot into a 30 homer guy. He can't make Mikolas, Fedde or Pallante into a number 1 pitcher. Why he gets so much hatred is a question that some of you should pose while looking in the mirror. You bring up Contreras, some of you, and you have to admit Contreras is a kind of a jerk. He was with the Cubs and he still is now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Marmol
Maybe you guys should (A female canine animal, especially a dog) and moan about the quality of talent this team puts on the field instead of beating a dead horse about the manager. I assume my words will go over some of you all's heads.
So oli throwing Contreras under the bus for a [shirt]ty pitching staff (even when it was proven to not be his fault), is OK because you conceived Willson to be a jerk on the Cubs?
But oli showing major jerk tendencies (arrogance, condescending attitude, and trashing players and umpires in the media), leads you to perceive him as a good guy?
Interesting.
Reading his bio, he sounds like a Christian family man, though to be fair that's a low bar now days. Contreras is a jerk. He was a jerk when he insulted Yadi. His actions are that of a jerk, game in and game out, but he's OUR jerk. Contreras was not good defensively behind the plate. As for handling the pitching staff? Well, he had a high standard to live up to and I'm not sure any catcher that have could come close to that bar. Arrogance, condescending, trashing players (who?), umpires? Show me a manager that doesn't put off those vibes. Schildt sure did. LaRussa was famous for it. He told Ozzie that SS would be given to who played the best, then he gave it to Clayton anyway even though Ozzie worked hard and outplayed him. Save your platitudes. It's obvious that you have an axe to grind with Oli. If they were winning you'd find some other reason to trash him. Personally, I don't care if they get another manager or not. Without the on field talent no manager will win consistently.
I would disagree with almost everything in your post. Contreras has praised Yadi. He contacted Yadi for advice when 2023 got off to a rough start. Yadi told Contreras he wasn't the problem. And as for representing the Cardinals, the dude only wants to win.
As for trashing players, your boy oli did it to O'Neill and Contreras within a couple weeks. Maybe you weren't paying attention to that train wreck 2023 season? It was the same year he had his little spat with CB Bucknor. Both acted like petulant children. Bucknor refused a handshake and Lil oli ran crying to the media. Yes, managers and umps argue. But I've never seen a manager take it to the press.
And your TLR - Ozzie argument is nothing. TLR did not trash Ozzie. He stayed quiet while Ozzie was complaining. And when the playoff run heated, Ozzie played.
When a member of the Cubs, Contreras insulted Yadi. Yadi responded with restraint. When he became a Cardinal of course Yadi would be gracious. Contreras acts like a jerk on the field, it's not a sin. Many players were total jerks on the field. As for trashing TO, he called out lack of hustle. Should a manager just say "no comment' when the sports writers ask him why he benched TO? Let rampant speculation go unaddressed? Media is part of the job. Gone are the old days when a manager could just arbitrarily throw a reporter out because he doesn't like him. And Marmol is not "my boy". I really couldn't care less if they removed him from the job. But this demonization by you and others is childish, self-serving and wholly useless. Marmol's bio on wiki shows that he seems to be a good guy and a family man. He's had experience in the minors and even winning a championship. So the argument that he has no experience is ridiculous. I don't believe any manager in baseball could turn this bunch into a contender. Serious personnel changes have to be made if this team will contend in the future. First and foremost, pitching pitching pitching. Then add at least one run producer. Somebody that pitchers fear with a bat. Walker may turn into that in the future. Noot doesn't have the power and Scott could be a game changer with his speed but he's content with trying to hit homeruns. Gorman probably needs to be moved but that would be selling awful low. But it all starts and ends with pitching. Managers don't throw, hit or field the ball. Blaming a manager for a teams ills is kind of silly. He makes the by the book moves that any manager would make.
Ok, lets dig into this. You think Contreras is a jerk. But you never said the guy isn't all about winning. Give me a guy who wants to be in StL and win every day of the week.
As for Oli's handling of O'Neill, it was unprofessional. He should have addressed the situation before talking to the media. And he (bleep) sure shouldn't have re-addressed it the following day. It was obvious he was targeting O'Neill. And the funny thing is his "lack of hustle" wasn't even accurate. O'Neill was running at a rate 75% above league average. And he had been told to be careful on a wet field to avoid injury.
Being critical of Marmol in no way furthers any agenda I or any other poster has. We have no extensive voice or power to sway the organization. Its simply pointing out our opinions on a fan forum. That's the purpose of a forum.
I agree the team needs a moto bat. I agree they need 2 starting pitchers. And I agree Mozeliak's roster isn’t well constructed. But I also believe a better manager does more with this group. Look at Cincinnati. Similar roster. Ahead of StL in the standings and have a legitimate shot to play in October.
