Helsley since joining Mets

[Ozziesfan41]

Yeah, lets just hope at LEAST one of those prospects we got for him pan out, preferably Baez. Maybe win a trade for once lol

They've won several trades recently: Montgomery/Stratton (Roby/Saggese/King), DeJong (Svanson) and Sosa (Romero) immediately come to mind.

I wouldn’t say the cards won the Montgomery trade the rangers he helped them win the World Series which a World Series for roby saggese king any team would do any day

The Cardinals weren't going to the playoffs that year, so it's not like the playoff boost Montgomery gave the Rangers was something the Cardinals "lost."

They got 3 players who have already given them almost as much WAR as Montgomery provided the Rangers in his 2 months with TEX. And they still have the 2 best players under control for 11 more years, so any additional WAR they accrue will only make the trade more of a win for the Cards.

I’ll bet you would have a hard time convincing the rangers or their fans they lost the trade when they won the World Series. That’s as crazy trying to tell the cards fans or the cardinals they lost the rasmus trade when it helped the cardinals win the World Series sure Rasmus had a 5 war season for the blue jays and 2 20 home run seasons but I’ll take the World Series any day you may declare the rasmus trade a loss but I sure don’t

Have you ever heard of a win-win trade? Those exist!

Oh I agree with the win win but you were trying to convince me the cardinals won the trade and rangers lost because the cardinals got war and years of control and the rangers only got 2 months of Montgomery which I disagree. A World championship beats years of control

[3dender]

Yeah, lets just hope at LEAST one of those prospects we got for him pan out, preferably Baez. Maybe win a trade for once lol

They've won several trades recently: Montgomery/Stratton (Roby/Saggese/King), DeJong (Svanson) and Sosa (Romero) immediately come to mind.

I wouldn’t say the cards won the Montgomery trade the rangers he helped them win the World Series which a World Series for roby saggese king any team would do any day

The Cardinals weren't going to the playoffs that year, so it's not like the playoff boost Montgomery gave the Rangers was something the Cardinals "lost."

They got 3 players who have already given them almost as much WAR as Montgomery provided the Rangers in his 2 months with TEX. And they still have the 2 best players under control for 11 more years, so any additional WAR they accrue will only make the trade more of a win for the Cards.

I’ll bet you would have a hard time convincing the rangers or their fans they lost the trade when they won the World Series. That’s as crazy trying to tell the cards fans or the cardinals they lost the rasmus trade when it helped the cardinals win the World Series sure Rasmus had a 5 war season for the blue jays and 2 20 home run seasons but I’ll take the World Series any day you may declare the rasmus trade a loss but I sure don’t

Have you ever heard of a win-win trade? Those exist!

Oh I agree with the win win but you were trying to convince me the cardinals won the trade and rangers lost because the cardinals got war and years of control and the rangers only got 2 months of Montgomery which I disagree. A World championship beats years of control

You are the only one who mentioned the Rangers in this conversation. Not only did I never claim they "lost," I never even mentioned them. Because I don't think of trades as zero sum, because that's kinda silly.

[Ozziesfan41]

Yeah, lets just hope at LEAST one of those prospects we got for him pan out, preferably Baez. Maybe win a trade for once lol

They've won several trades recently: Montgomery/Stratton (Roby/Saggese/King), DeJong (Svanson) and Sosa (Romero) immediately come to mind.

I wouldn’t say the cards won the Montgomery trade the rangers he helped them win the World Series which a World Series for roby saggese king any team would do any day

The Cardinals weren't going to the playoffs that year, so it's not like the playoff boost Montgomery gave the Rangers was something the Cardinals "lost."

They got 3 players who have already given them almost as much WAR as Montgomery provided the Rangers in his 2 months with TEX. And they still have the 2 best players under control for 11 more years, so any additional WAR they accrue will only make the trade more of a win for the Cards.

I’ll bet you would have a hard time convincing the rangers or their fans they lost the trade when they won the World Series. That’s as crazy trying to tell the cards fans or the cardinals they lost the rasmus trade when it helped the cardinals win the World Series sure Rasmus had a 5 war season for the blue jays and 2 20 home run seasons but I’ll take the World Series any day you may declare the rasmus trade a loss but I sure don’t

Have you ever heard of a win-win trade? Those exist!

Oh I agree with the win win but you were trying to convince me the cardinals won the trade and rangers lost because the cardinals got war and years of control and the rangers only got 2 months of Montgomery which I disagree. A World championship beats years of control

You are the only one who mentioned the Rangers in this conversation. Not only did I never claim they "lost," I never even mentioned them. Because I don't think of trades as zero sum, because that's kinda silly.

You must not have read your own post where you say the cardinals got more war from 3 players than the rangers got for Montgomerys 2 months and any additional war will make the trade only MORE of a win for the cardinals sounds like you declared it a win for the cardinals now are back tracking

[3dender]

Yeah, lets just hope at LEAST one of those prospects we got for him pan out, preferably Baez. Maybe win a trade for once lol

They've won several trades recently: Montgomery/Stratton (Roby/Saggese/King), DeJong (Svanson) and Sosa (Romero) immediately come to mind.

I wouldn’t say the cards won the Montgomery trade the rangers he helped them win the World Series which a World Series for roby saggese king any team would do any day

The Cardinals weren't going to the playoffs that year, so it's not like the playoff boost Montgomery gave the Rangers was something the Cardinals "lost."

They got 3 players who have already given them almost as much WAR as Montgomery provided the Rangers in his 2 months with TEX. And they still have the 2 best players under control for 11 more years, so any additional WAR they accrue will only make the trade more of a win for the Cards.

I’ll bet you would have a hard time convincing the rangers or their fans they lost the trade when they won the World Series. That’s as crazy trying to tell the cards fans or the cardinals they lost the rasmus trade when it helped the cardinals win the World Series sure Rasmus had a 5 war season for the blue jays and 2 20 home run seasons but I’ll take the World Series any day you may declare the rasmus trade a loss but I sure don’t

Have you ever heard of a win-win trade? Those exist!

Oh I agree with the win win but you were trying to convince me the cardinals won the trade and rangers lost because the cardinals got war and years of control and the rangers only got 2 months of Montgomery which I disagree. A World championship beats years of control

You are the only one who mentioned the Rangers in this conversation. Not only did I never claim they "lost," I never even mentioned them. Because I don't think of trades as zero sum, because that's kinda silly.

You must not have read your own post where you say the cardinals got more war from 3 players than the rangers got for Montgomerys 2 months and any additional war will make the trade only MORE of a win for the cardinals sounds like you declared it a win for the cardinals now are back tracking

Yeah you kinda have to mention what the team gives up in a trade and compare it to what they got, in order to determine if they won or not.

Both teams won the trade. You're the only one who ever suggested it had to be zero sum. I'm the one who said evaluating trades as if they're zero sum is silly. Stop being silly maybe and this confusion won't occur?

[Ozziesfan41]

Yeah, lets just hope at LEAST one of those prospects we got for him pan out, preferably Baez. Maybe win a trade for once lol

They've won several trades recently: Montgomery/Stratton (Roby/Saggese/King), DeJong (Svanson) and Sosa (Romero) immediately come to mind.

I wouldn’t say the cards won the Montgomery trade the rangers he helped them win the World Series which a World Series for roby saggese king any team would do any day

The Cardinals weren't going to the playoffs that year, so it's not like the playoff boost Montgomery gave the Rangers was something the Cardinals "lost."

They got 3 players who have already given them almost as much WAR as Montgomery provided the Rangers in his 2 months with TEX. And they still have the 2 best players under control for 11 more years, so any additional WAR they accrue will only make the trade more of a win for the Cards.

I’ll bet you would have a hard time convincing the rangers or their fans they lost the trade when they won the World Series. That’s as crazy trying to tell the cards fans or the cardinals they lost the rasmus trade when it helped the cardinals win the World Series sure Rasmus had a 5 war season for the blue jays and 2 20 home run seasons but I’ll take the World Series any day you may declare the rasmus trade a loss but I sure don’t

Have you ever heard of a win-win trade? Those exist!

Oh I agree with the win win but you were trying to convince me the cardinals won the trade and rangers lost because the cardinals got war and years of control and the rangers only got 2 months of Montgomery which I disagree. A World championship beats years of control

You are the only one who mentioned the Rangers in this conversation. Not only did I never claim they "lost," I never even mentioned them. Because I don't think of trades as zero sum, because that's kinda silly.

You must not have read your own post where you say the cardinals got more war from 3 players than the rangers got for Montgomerys 2 months and any additional war will make the trade only MORE of a win for the cardinals sounds like you declared it a win for the cardinals now are back tracking

Yeah you kinda have to mention what the team gives up in a trade and compare it to what they got, in order to determine if they won or not.

Both teams won the trade. You're the only one who ever suggested it had to be zero sum. I'm the one who said evaluating trades as if they're zero sum is silly. Stop being silly maybe and this confusion won't occur?

Stop being silly and declaring trades wins then

[3dender]

Yeah, lets just hope at LEAST one of those prospects we got for him pan out, preferably Baez. Maybe win a trade for once lol

They've won several trades recently: Montgomery/Stratton (Roby/Saggese/King), DeJong (Svanson) and Sosa (Romero) immediately come to mind.

I wouldn’t say the cards won the Montgomery trade the rangers he helped them win the World Series which a World Series for roby saggese king any team would do any day

The Cardinals weren't going to the playoffs that year, so it's not like the playoff boost Montgomery gave the Rangers was something the Cardinals "lost."

They got 3 players who have already given them almost as much WAR as Montgomery provided the Rangers in his 2 months with TEX. And they still have the 2 best players under control for 11 more years, so any additional WAR they accrue will only make the trade more of a win for the Cards.

I’ll bet you would have a hard time convincing the rangers or their fans they lost the trade when they won the World Series. That’s as crazy trying to tell the cards fans or the cardinals they lost the rasmus trade when it helped the cardinals win the World Series sure Rasmus had a 5 war season for the blue jays and 2 20 home run seasons but I’ll take the World Series any day you may declare the rasmus trade a loss but I sure don’t

Have you ever heard of a win-win trade? Those exist!

Oh I agree with the win win but you were trying to convince me the cardinals won the trade and rangers lost because the cardinals got war and years of control and the rangers only got 2 months of Montgomery which I disagree. A World championship beats years of control

You are the only one who mentioned the Rangers in this conversation. Not only did I never claim they "lost," I never even mentioned them. Because I don't think of trades as zero sum, because that's kinda silly.

You must not have read your own post where you say the cardinals got more war from 3 players than the rangers got for Montgomerys 2 months and any additional war will make the trade only MORE of a win for the cardinals sounds like you declared it a win for the cardinals now are back tracking

Yeah you kinda have to mention what the team gives up in a trade and compare it to what they got, in order to determine if they won or not.

Both teams won the trade. You're the only one who ever suggested it had to be zero sum. I'm the one who said evaluating trades as if they're zero sum is silly. Stop being silly maybe and this confusion won't occur?

Stop being silly and declaring trades wins then

No

[Ozziesfan41]

Yeah, lets just hope at LEAST one of those prospects we got for him pan out, preferably Baez. Maybe win a trade for once lol

They've won several trades recently: Montgomery/Stratton (Roby/Saggese/King), DeJong (Svanson) and Sosa (Romero) immediately come to mind.

I wouldn’t say the cards won the Montgomery trade the rangers he helped them win the World Series which a World Series for roby saggese king any team would do any day

The Cardinals weren't going to the playoffs that year, so it's not like the playoff boost Montgomery gave the Rangers was something the Cardinals "lost."

They got 3 players who have already given them almost as much WAR as Montgomery provided the Rangers in his 2 months with TEX. And they still have the 2 best players under control for 11 more years, so any additional WAR they accrue will only make the trade more of a win for the Cards.

I’ll bet you would have a hard time convincing the rangers or their fans they lost the trade when they won the World Series. That’s as crazy trying to tell the cards fans or the cardinals they lost the rasmus trade when it helped the cardinals win the World Series sure Rasmus had a 5 war season for the blue jays and 2 20 home run seasons but I’ll take the World Series any day you may declare the rasmus trade a loss but I sure don’t

Have you ever heard of a win-win trade? Those exist!

Oh I agree with the win win but you were trying to convince me the cardinals won the trade and rangers lost because the cardinals got war and years of control and the rangers only got 2 months of Montgomery which I disagree. A World championship beats years of control

You are the only one who mentioned the Rangers in this conversation. Not only did I never claim they "lost," I never even mentioned them. Because I don't think of trades as zero sum, because that's kinda silly.

You must not have read your own post where you say the cardinals got more war from 3 players than the rangers got for Montgomerys 2 months and any additional war will make the trade only MORE of a win for the cardinals sounds like you declared it a win for the cardinals now are back tracking

Yeah you kinda have to mention what the team gives up in a trade and compare it to what they got, in order to determine if they won or not.

Both teams won the trade. You're the only one who ever suggested it had to be zero sum. I'm the one who said evaluating trades as if they're zero sum is silly. Stop being silly maybe and this confusion won't occur?

Stop being silly and declaring trades wins then

No

lol fair enough

[hugeCardfan]

Yeah, lets just hope at LEAST one of those prospects we got for him pan out, preferably Baez. Maybe win a trade for once lol

They've won several trades recently: Montgomery/Stratton (Roby/Saggese/King), DeJong (Svanson) and Sosa (Romero) immediately come to mind.

I wouldn’t say the cards won the Montgomery trade the rangers he helped them win the World Series which a World Series for roby saggese king any team would do any day

A trade is won if the player/players remaining from the trade are of greater value to you than the player traded. Montgomery did not represent a potential WS win to the Cardinals OR a future with the Cardinals. That trade was a huge win. How big remains to be seen with the future success of of Roby, Saggese and perhaps King.

[greyhawk]

wasn't Helsley still hitting 100+ while here? has his velocity tanked? i am assuming he is just being hit a bit more but if he is still throwing 100 mph the stuff still plays. he may need an actual coach to help him figure it out but its like having a 7 ft center --- you can't throw 100 mph anymore than you can teach being 7 ft tall....

[dugoutrex]

wasn't Helsley still hitting 100+ while here? has his velocity tanked? i am assuming he is just being hit a bit more but if he is still throwing 100 mph the stuff still plays. he may need an actual coach to help him figure it out but its like having a 7 ft center --- you can't throw 100 mph anymore than you can teach being 7 ft tall....

yup, and he is still striking out a lot of batters - he'll be fine

[Ozziesfan41]

The fact that the Rangers won the WS with he help of Monty means it was a big success for them. However, that doesn't mean the Cards should not have traded a rental and tried to get as much back as possible, which they did.
Many said not to trade Helsley, but that was also clearly needed. Even if they didn't get great players back, the team wasn't going to sign him (or Monty) -- and it has opened up the opportunity to see who can be a closer.

Last I heard opponents were hitting over .400 on that 100 MPH fastball so whatever it was doing last season it ain’t doing it this season

[MIDMOBIRDTWO]

I like Helsley, so I only want him to blow every other save chance. That is because Pond Scum. If you know, you know.

[TXCardsFanX]

Bloom will have no interest in signing a FA closer anyway. We are rebuilding, don't ya know?
I hope Helsley does well. Good guy.

[Goldfan]

Said when he was traded…..weak Mind….NY will eat him alive.

[ClassicO]

The fact that the Rangers won the WS with he help of Monty means it was a big success for them. However, that doesn't mean the Cards should not have traded a rental and tried to get as much back as possible, which they did.
Many said not to trade Helsley, but that was also clearly needed. Even if they didn't get great players back, the team wasn't going to sign him (or Monty) -- and it has opened up the opportunity to see who can be a closer.

Last I heard opponents were hitting over .400 on that 100 MPH fastball so whatever it was doing last season it ain’t doing it this season

And that WS for Monty was the last he was worth a darn.

[Ozziesfan41]

The fact that the Rangers won the WS with he help of Monty means it was a big success for them. However, that doesn't mean the Cards should not have traded a rental and tried to get as much back as possible, which they did.
Many said not to trade Helsley, but that was also clearly needed. Even if they didn't get great players back, the team wasn't going to sign him (or Monty) -- and it has opened up the opportunity to see who can be a closer.

Last I heard opponents were hitting over .400 on that 100 MPH fastball so whatever it was doing last season it ain’t doing it this season

And that WS for Monty was the last he was worth a darn.

I doubt the rangers care about that either. But I agree cards should have traded Monty and should have traded helsley in the offseason. I accidentally replied to your post i meant to respond to greyhawks post about helsley throwing 100 mph my apologies I meant to respond to him that hitters are killing his fast ball this season