Free Agent starters - little chance the Cards get anyone decent

[rockondlouie]

I'd like to see them go after B. Woodruff with a S. Gray like $70M/3 yr deal (Knowing Gray's $35M is off the books after next year).

Mikolas/Matz/Helsley/Fedde = $45+M off the books, plenty of payroll space to easily cover Woodruffs salary w/money left over.

2026 Rotation:

Woodruff
Gray
Libby
McGreevy
????? (trade for a current #4/5 young starter w/upside)

"Q"/Doyle (potentially sometime in 2026)


(And enough of the lockout talk! Players AREN'T PAID during a lockout so teams will still be signing free agents and BDWjr should NOT get away w/spreading horse manure)

Yeah, seems like most here on CT have already accepted that next year "we can't sign anybody" because of a possible work stoppage.
Even on this thread alone, people are talking about waiting till 2028. Wow!

Amazes me that people are buying into this narrative.

Aside from signing bonuses and deferred money players have already earned, they're not going to be paid during the (possible) lockout.

Sure agents will try to get large 2026 salaries, smaller 2027 salaries, but so what?

BDWJr is NOT going to be out any money spent to sign a free agent this coming offseason for as long as the lockout last in 2027, he won't lose one penny!

[Cardinals4Life]

I would prefer spending on pitching over hitting any day but unfortunately the potential injury risks are far greater for pitchers than position players.
I admit.....I thought signing Matz at the time for $11M per year was a good move.
Four years later.....we’ve seen the results due to injury.
Blake Snell is another pitcher who comes to mind.
Very accomplished(Cy Young) but can’t stay healthy.
There are very few organizations that can sustain a rotation year to year through Free Agency.
Hopefully Bloom and the new FO can upgrade the System!

We can afford to pay for an ace. Go get Valdez.

Valdez
Gray
Liberatore
McGreevy
Mathews/Pallante

This rotation plays.

Valdez would be great, but even if they want him, why would he come here without a huge overpay?

Then pay him! Guys, sometimes thats what it takes to get the guy you want and need.

[Mort Gage]

I'd like to see them go after B. Woodruff with a S. Gray like $70M/3 yr deal (Knowing Gray's $35M is off the books after next year).

Mikolas/Matz/Helsley/Fedde = $45+M off the books, plenty of payroll space to easily cover Woodruffs salary w/money left over.

2026 Rotation:

Woodruff
Gray
Libby
McGreevy
????? (trade for a current #4/5 young starter w/upside)

"Q"/Doyle (potentially sometime in 2026)


(And enough of the lockout talk! Players AREN'T PAID during a lockout so teams will still be signing free agents and BDWjr should NOT get away w/spreading horse manure)

Yeah, seems like most here on CT have already accepted that next year "we can't sign anybody" because of a possible work stoppage.
Even on this thread alone, people are talking about waiting till 2028. Wow!

I'm just saying what I think will happen. What should happen is an entirely different discussion. I can't see the DeWitts throwing around cash coming off a year with reduced revenue from TV, gate receipts, and BPV. And they don't know what the parameters will be after the next CBA. There are too many headwinds for big FA deals this offseason.

[Cardinals4Life]

I'd like to see them go after B. Woodruff with a S. Gray like $70M/3 yr deal (Knowing Gray's $35M is off the books after next year).

Mikolas/Matz/Helsley/Fedde = $45+M off the books, plenty of payroll space to easily cover Woodruffs salary w/money left over.

2026 Rotation:

Woodruff
Gray
Libby
McGreevy
????? (trade for a current #4/5 young starter w/upside)

"Q"/Doyle (potentially sometime in 2026)


(And enough of the lockout talk! Players AREN'T PAID during a lockout so teams will still be signing free agents and BDWjr should NOT get away w/spreading horse manure)

Yeah, seems like most here on CT have already accepted that next year "we can't sign anybody" because of a possible work stoppage.
Even on this thread alone, people are talking about waiting till 2028. Wow!

I'm just saying what I think will happen. What should happen is an entirely different discussion. I can't see the DeWitts throwing around cash coming off a year with reduced revenue from TV, gate receipts, and BPV. And they don't know what the parameters will be after the next CBA. There are too many headwinds for big FA deals this offseason.

I know Mort.
They ALWAYS have an EXCUSE, don't they?!?

[Mort Gage]

I'd like to see them go after B. Woodruff with a S. Gray like $70M/3 yr deal (Knowing Gray's $35M is off the books after next year).

Mikolas/Matz/Helsley/Fedde = $45+M off the books, plenty of payroll space to easily cover Woodruffs salary w/money left over.

2026 Rotation:

Woodruff
Gray
Libby
McGreevy
????? (trade for a current #4/5 young starter w/upside)

"Q"/Doyle (potentially sometime in 2026)


(And enough of the lockout talk! Players AREN'T PAID during a lockout so teams will still be signing free agents and BDWjr should NOT get away w/spreading horse manure)

Yeah, seems like most here on CT have already accepted that next year "we can't sign anybody" because of a possible work stoppage.
Even on this thread alone, people are talking about waiting till 2028. Wow!

I'm just saying what I think will happen. What should happen is an entirely different discussion. I can't see the DeWitts throwing around cash coming off a year with reduced revenue from TV, gate receipts, and BPV. And they don't know what the parameters will be after the next CBA. There are too many headwinds for big FA deals this offseason.

I know Mort.
They ALWAYS have an EXCUSE, don't they?!?

They missed their opportunities to step on the gas. '21 and '22 when Goldschmidt and Arenado were rolling are prime examples. Now they are in a spot where a big money FA or two won't push them into contention.

[Melville]

Allow me to share some good news amidst the doom.
Super Slo is defined by caution, fear, and timidity.
Deep set fear of failure paralyzes him - as he has admitted.
"Chaim Not Afraid of Risk" Bloom will be different, as his career to date documents.
He has pieces to move in exchange for starting pitchers.
At the MLB level, he has parts with which to work.
Lars The Human Sushi-baar should be traded as I alone was first to understand and advise 4 seasons ago - and it appears STL finally grasps that.
Now that Herrera is no longer a catcher (being moved after I alone was first to understand and advise 3 seasons ago) - he has created potential redundancy in the outfield and at DH and STL may be able to make a choice between him and Walker.
Wetherholt's expected arrival for 2026 should move Donovan off second base - allowing him to return to his fulltime starter rotating super utility role, take over LF, or be a trade piece.
Though many appreciate Burleson's contribution (including me), if STL has no intention of pursuing an extension Bloom could look at moving him at peak value this winter.
And there are minor league pieces as well.
The big developmental jumps from Church and Joshua Baez this season could Bloom to make Scott available under the right circumstances.
Crooks and Bernal present an interesting dilemma as well - either would bring significant return.
Bottom line.
One from the list of Herrera or Walker.
One or two from the list of Mootbaar, Burleson, Donovan, or Scott.
One from the list of Crooks or Bernal.
Not advocating one way or the other, but Bloom can easily move 3 from this group and really not negatively impact the 2026 position player roster one bit.
A good spot to be in - for the right man.
We shall see if Bloom is.

[Cusecards]

I would prefer spending on pitching over hitting any day but unfortunately the potential injury risks are far greater for pitchers than position players.
I admit.....I thought signing Matz at the time for $11M per year was a good move.
Four years later.....we’ve seen the results due to injury.
Blake Snell is another pitcher who comes to mind.
Very accomplished(Cy Young) but can’t stay healthy.
There are very few organizations that can sustain a rotation year to year through Free Agency.
Hopefully Bloom and the new FO can upgrade the System!

We can afford to pay for an ace. Go get Valdez.

Valdez
Gray
Liberatore
McGreevy
Mathews/Pallante

This rotation plays.

That could certainly work.
Valdez upcoming FA. Of course we don’t know his market yet.
Eliminating the contracts of 2025 for Mikolas/Matz/Fedde/Helsley saves about $45M off the books.
Of course moving Arenado and reaping some savings would be huge.
And Gray has just one year left.
Having one major FA SP per year works which would be the case after 2026.
I worry about the health of course in who we sign.
I realize it’s a crapshoot but can certainly tie your hands.
Fingers crossed. Bummer with Roby who I thought would definitely be a factor in 2026!

[ClassicO]

I wish, just once (ever), Melville would tell us who the Cards can get back on these trade ideas. (BTW, all his trade ideas are ones many others have suggested.)

He says, "Bloom can easily move 3 from this group and really not negatively impact the 2026 position player roster one bit." But, if they are that insignificant in the Cards lineup, who could they get back for them?

He's always trying to sell this crud: "trade our non-prefromers for a quality SP or OF." Ha ha ha.

[Cusecards]

I wish, just once (ever), Melville would tell us who the Cards can get back on these trade ideas. (BTW, all his trade ideas are ones many others have suggested.)

He says, "Bloom can easily move 3 from this group and really not negatively impact the 2026 position player roster one bit." But, if they are that insignificant in the Cards lineup, who could they get back for them?

He's always trying to sell this crud: "trade our non-prefromers for a quality SP or OF." Ha ha ha.

Hey....remember he’s the Sideshow Clown!
I see he snuck in another “I alone predicted”.
He fixates on one so-called prediction that he got right and conveniently ignores the other 90% he got wrong.
God Bless the anonymous Internet!
He is always good for a daily laugh though.
Go Cards!

[rockondlouie]

Allow me to share some good news amidst the doom.
Super Slo is defined by caution, fear, and timidity.
Deep set fear of failure paralyzes him - as he has admitted.
"Chaim Not Afraid of Risk" Bloom will be different, as his career to date documents.
He has pieces to move in exchange for starting pitchers.
At the MLB level, he has parts with which to work.
Lars The Human Sushi-baar should be traded as I alone was first to understand and advise 4 seasons ago - and it appears STL finally grasps that.
Now that Herrera is no longer a catcher (being moved after I alone was first to understand and advise 3 seasons ago) - he has created potential redundancy in the outfield and at DH and STL may be able to make a choice between him and Walker.
Wetherholt's expected arrival for 2026 should move Donovan off second base - allowing him to return to his fulltime starter rotating super utility role, take over LF, or be a trade piece.
Though many appreciate Burleson's contribution (including me), if STL has no intention of pursuing an extension Bloom could look at moving him at peak value this winter.
And there are minor league pieces as well.
The big developmental jumps from Church and Joshua Baez this season could Bloom to make Scott available under the right circumstances.
Crooks and Bernal present an interesting dilemma as well - either would bring significant return.
Bottom line.
One from the list of Herrera or Walker.
One or two from the list of Mootbaar, Burleson, Donovan, or Scott.
One from the list of Crooks or Bernal.
Not advocating one way or the other, but Bloom can easily move 3 from this group and really not negatively impact the 2026 position player roster one bit.
A good spot to be in - for the right man.
We shall see if Bloom is.

You keep forgetting mel that I started a thread the same year saying Hererra needed to be converted to the outfield.

[PadsFS07]

I like Mahle a lot. Also Quintana isn’t a bad idea. Soroka would be a nice high risk move along with the other two.

Murakami would be the bat I’d like them to add.

[Melville]

Allow me to share some good news amidst the doom.
Super Slo is defined by caution, fear, and timidity.
Deep set fear of failure paralyzes him - as he has admitted.
"Chaim Not Afraid of Risk" Bloom will be different, as his career to date documents.
He has pieces to move in exchange for starting pitchers.
At the MLB level, he has parts with which to work.
Lars The Human Sushi-baar should be traded as I alone was first to understand and advise 4 seasons ago - and it appears STL finally grasps that.
Now that Herrera is no longer a catcher (being moved after I alone was first to understand and advise 3 seasons ago) - he has created potential redundancy in the outfield and at DH and STL may be able to make a choice between him and Walker.
Wetherholt's expected arrival for 2026 should move Donovan off second base - allowing him to return to his fulltime starter rotating super utility role, take over LF, or be a trade piece.
Though many appreciate Burleson's contribution (including me), if STL has no intention of pursuing an extension Bloom could look at moving him at peak value this winter.
And there are minor league pieces as well.
The big developmental jumps from Church and Joshua Baez this season could Bloom to make Scott available under the right circumstances.
Crooks and Bernal present an interesting dilemma as well - either would bring significant return.
Bottom line.
One from the list of Herrera or Walker.
One or two from the list of Mootbaar, Burleson, Donovan, or Scott.
One from the list of Crooks or Bernal.
Not advocating one way or the other, but Bloom can easily move 3 from this group and really not negatively impact the 2026 position player roster one bit.
A good spot to be in - for the right man.
We shall see if Bloom is.

You keep forgetting mel that I started a thread the same year saying Hererra needed to be converted to the outfield.

Very fair observation.
Credit where credit is due.
How would you prefer that I amend that point morning forward?
There are options.
"I and rockondlouie were first and best to understand and advise 3 seasons ago that Herrera should be moved to another position."
Or, "Long before anyone else, I and rockondlouie correctly analyzed several years ago that the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION was to move Herrera to another position".
Never about me, of course.
Or about you.
Simply want to ensure the accuracy of the record.
Only and always about the game.

[Cusecards]

LMFAO
It would be super sweet to be able to face this narcissistic, hypocritical, fraud in person.
Sadly it will never happen.
Not that he would have the stones to show up anyway! LOL

[VegasVinny]

I'd like to see them go after B. Woodruff with a S. Gray like $70M/3 yr deal (Knowing Gray's $35M is off the books after next year).

Mikolas/Matz/Helsley/Fedde = $45+M off the books, plenty of payroll space to easily cover Woodruffs salary w/money left over.

2026 Rotation:

Woodruff
Gray
Libby
McGreevy
????? (trade for a current #4/5 young starter w/upside)

"Q"/Doyle (potentially sometime in 2026)


(And enough of the lockout talk! Players AREN'T PAID during a lockout so teams will still be signing free agents and BDWjr should NOT get away w/spreading horse manure)

Yeah, seems like most here on CT have already accepted that next year "we can't sign anybody" because of a possible work stoppage.
Even on this thread alone, people are talking about waiting till 2028. Wow!

Simply trying to ground my expectations in reality. The front office recently doubled down on suppressing payroll, and thus, won't be spending dollars on difference makers this offseason. So, with what (realistic) path to contention does that leave the 2026 team?

- Bloom trades excess roster pieces and pulls rabbits out of a couple hats
- Quinn Mathews and JJ Wetherholt break camp with the parent club, experience injury-free rookie seasons with no Walker/Gorman-type, um, learning curves
- Speaking of Walker, he produces a season we've all been awaiting
- Because payroll will be staying flat, we should realistically expect no more than one Phil Maton-type reliever, as that was all the team signed last year when they spouted off the same expectation-lowering message

A lot - not everything - has to go right and next to nothing can go wrong with any of the above.

[CorneliusWolfe]

(And enough of the lockout talk! Players AREN'T PAID during a lockout so teams will still be signing free agents and BDWjr should NOT get away w/spreading horse manure)

Thanks for clarifying. It changes my entire outlook on the lockout factor. I had already bought into common narrative on how it will prevent spending.

[Cardinals4Life]

Allow me to share some good news amidst the doom.
Super Slo is defined by caution, fear, and timidity.
Deep set fear of failure paralyzes him - as he has admitted.
"Chaim Not Afraid of Risk" Bloom will be different, as his career to date documents.
He has pieces to move in exchange for starting pitchers.
At the MLB level, he has parts with which to work.
Lars The Human Sushi-baar should be traded as I alone was first to understand and advise 4 seasons ago - and it appears STL finally grasps that.
Now that Herrera is no longer a catcher (being moved after I alone was first to understand and advise 3 seasons ago) - he has created potential redundancy in the outfield and at DH and STL may be able to make a choice between him and Walker.
Wetherholt's expected arrival for 2026 should move Donovan off second base - allowing him to return to his fulltime starter rotating super utility role, take over LF, or be a trade piece.
Though many appreciate Burleson's contribution (including me), if STL has no intention of pursuing an extension Bloom could look at moving him at peak value this winter.
And there are minor league pieces as well.
The big developmental jumps from Church and Joshua Baez this season could Bloom to make Scott available under the right circumstances.
Crooks and Bernal present an interesting dilemma as well - either would bring significant return.
Bottom line.
One from the list of Herrera or Walker.
One or two from the list of Mootbaar, Burleson, Donovan, or Scott.
One from the list of Crooks or Bernal.
Not advocating one way or the other, but Bloom can easily move 3 from this group and really not negatively impact the 2026 position player roster one bit.
A good spot to be in - for the right man.
We shall see if Bloom is.

Mel,

Good post!
I think Gorman can be added to the possible trade candidate list as well.

We have the ability to compete very soon, if ownership will allow Bloom to do so, meaning giving him some money to fill in the needed pieces.