rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025 14:23 pm
Gave up nothing
Rockies pitched in $55M
First three years average season as a Cardinal:
30 HR
100 RBI
.271 .328 .495 .824
126 OPS+
All-Star (3)
Gold Gloves (2)
Silver Slugger (1)
3rd in MVP Voting (22')
I'd still make that trade 100/100 times.
Agreed. It was a no brainer. Still wish Nado would've given us another season or 2. (Or that the Cards wouldn't have wasted the prime years of Goldy/Nado with midget man in charge, running Goldy out in the 2 hole as a tablesetter for 3-4 straight years, but I digress!)
rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025 14:23 pm
Gave up nothing
Rockies pitched in $55M
First three years average season as a Cardinal:
30 HR
100 RBI
.271 .328 .495 .824
126 OPS+
All-Star (3)
Gold Gloves (2)
Silver Slugger (1)
3rd in MVP Voting (22')
I'd still make that trade 100/100 times.
Completely agree. We had a chance to win a pennant in 2022 with both Goldie and Nado having MVP seasons. Plus we had Pujols, Yadi, Wainwright. It could have been magical but Mo decided to mail it in at the deadline and not get those 1 or 2 more pieces that could have put us over the top. And also Oli’s awful managing.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025 14:23 pm
Gave up nothing
Rockies pitched in $55M
First three years average season as a Cardinal:
30 HR
100 RBI
.271 .328 .495 .824
126 OPS+
All-Star (3)
Gold Gloves (2)
Silver Slugger (1)
3rd in MVP Voting (22')
I'd still make that trade 100/100 times.
Completely agree. We had a chance to win a pennant in 2022 with both Goldie and Nado having MVP seasons. Plus we had Pujols, Yadi, Wainwright. It could have been magical but Mo decided to mail it in at the deadline and not get those 1 or 2 more pieces that could have put us over the top. And also Oli’s awful managing.
Watching the trade deadlines the last several years, almost every team that is in condition adds at least 2 bullpen pieces with at least 1 be a closer level pitcher. MO added Quintana in 2022, which was a nice add, but no bullpen pieces. I had to sit through that horrible game against the Phillies where Helsley imploded and Oli did not have other great options. He should have still taken Helsley out. But, had MO fortified the back-end of the bullpen like he should have at the trade deadline, there is a very good chance the Cards advance further into the 2022 playoffs.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025 14:23 pm
Gave up nothing
Rockies pitched in $55M
First three years average season as a Cardinal:
30 HR
100 RBI
.271 .328 .495 .824
126 OPS+
All-Star (3)
Gold Gloves (2)
Silver Slugger (1)
3rd in MVP Voting (22')
I'd still make that trade 100/100 times.
Completely agree. We had a chance to win a pennant in 2022 with both Goldie and Nado having MVP seasons. Plus we had Pujols, Yadi, Wainwright. It could have been magical but Mo decided to mail it in at the deadline and not get those 1 or 2 more pieces that could have put us over the top. And also Oli’s awful managing.
Watching the trade deadlines the last several years, almost every team that is in condition adds at least 2 bullpen pieces with at least 1 be a closer level pitcher. MO added Quintana in 2022, which was a nice add, but no bullpen pieces. I had to sit through that horrible game against the Phillies where Helsley imploded and Oli did not have other great options. He should have still taken Helsley out. But, had MO fortified the back-end of the bullpen like he should have at the trade deadline, there is a very good chance the Cards advance further into the 2022 playoffs.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025 14:23 pm
Gave up nothing
Rockies pitched in $55M
First three years average season as a Cardinal:
30 HR
100 RBI
.271 .328 .495 .824
126 OPS+
All-Star (3)
Gold Gloves (2)
Silver Slugger (1)
3rd in MVP Voting (22')
I'd still make that trade 100/100 times.
Completely agree. We had a chance to win a pennant in 2022 with both Goldie and Nado having MVP seasons. Plus we had Pujols, Yadi, Wainwright. It could have been magical but Mo decided to mail it in at the deadline and not get those 1 or 2 more pieces that could have put us over the top. And also Oli’s awful managing.
Watching the trade deadlines the last several years, almost every team that is in condition adds at least 2 bullpen pieces with at least 1 be a closer level pitcher. MO added Quintana in 2022, which was a nice add, but no bullpen pieces. I had to sit through that horrible game against the Phillies where Helsley imploded and Oli did not have other great options. He should have still taken Helsley out. But, had MO fortified the back-end of the bullpen like he should have at the trade deadline, there is a very good chance the Cards advance further into the 2022 playoffs.
Or just left Quintana in who was dealing!
He was, but he wasn't going to go 9...
Perhaps not, but you don't pull Quintana after 5 1/3 at 75 pitches when he was cruising and only allowed 2 hits. By the time they got to Helsley, he had already needlessly burned through his other best BP arms. He painted himself into a corner for no reason. Terrible managing!
rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025 14:23 pm
Gave up nothing
Rockies pitched in $55M
First three years average season as a Cardinal:
30 HR
100 RBI
.271 .328 .495 .824
126 OPS+
All-Star (3)
Gold Gloves (2)
Silver Slugger (1)
3rd in MVP Voting (22')
I'd still make that trade 100/100 times.
Yeah, this. It isn't Arenado's fault that ownership and Mozeliak fumbled the ball.
I remember they traded for Nolan like in early February. Within like twelve hours, they dumped Fowler.
I thought, “here we go. Now we are going to see some moves.”
Nothing else happened.
One of the craziest things about Nolan’s first year was just how incomplete and vulnerable the roster was, despite having Arenado and Goldy….
Remember, that was the year shildt was fired.
1. The starting pitching was an absolute mess. We were having to pick up guys in early June from the scrap heap.
2. The outfield depth was the worst in the league. Our RF production was the worst in the league in the first half.
3. Carpenter allowed to stay on the team all year.
ecleme22 wrote: ↑08 Aug 2025 06:23 am
I remember they traded for Nolan like in early February. Within like twelve hours, they dumped Fowler.
I thought, “here we go. Now we are going to see some moves.”
Nothing else happened.
One of the craziest things about Nolan’s first year was just how incomplete and vulnerable the roster was, despite having Arenado and Goldy….
Remember, that was the year shildt was fired.
1. The starting pitching was an absolute mess. We were having to pick up guys in early June from the scrap heap.
2. The outfield depth was the worst in the league. Our RF production was the worst in the league in the first half.
3. Carpenter allowed to stay on the team all year.
Ironically when they trade him, nothing else will happen. It hasn’t changed in these years.
ecleme22 wrote: ↑08 Aug 2025 06:23 am
I remember they traded for Nolan like in early February. Within like twelve hours, they dumped Fowler.
I thought, “here we go. Now we are going to see some moves.”
Nothing else happened.
One of the craziest things about Nolan’s first year was just how incomplete and vulnerable the roster was, despite having Arenado and Goldy….
Remember, that was the year shildt was fired.
1. The starting pitching was an absolute mess. We were having to pick up guys in early June from the scrap heap.
2. The outfield depth was the worst in the league. Our RF production was the worst in the league in the first half.
3. Carpenter allowed to stay on the team all year.
Ironically when they trade him, nothing else will happen. It hasn’t changed in these years.
Well the team situation is different now. They might just release him.
ecleme22 wrote: ↑08 Aug 2025 06:23 am
I remember they traded for Nolan like in early February. Within like twelve hours, they dumped Fowler.
I thought, “here we go. Now we are going to see some moves.”
Nothing else happened.
One of the craziest things about Nolan’s first year was just how incomplete and vulnerable the roster was, despite having Arenado and Goldy….
Remember, that was the year shildt was fired.
1. The starting pitching was an absolute mess. We were having to pick up guys in early June from the scrap heap.
2. The outfield depth was the worst in the league. Our RF production was the worst in the league in the first half.
3. Carpenter allowed to stay on the team all year.
Ironically when they trade him, nothing else will happen. It hasn’t changed in these years.
Well the team situation is different now. They might just release him.
Maybe. My point was the environment surrounding the team seems to have stalled. As you stated, thunder followed by nothing. And none since. And none after he is gone.
ecleme22 wrote: ↑08 Aug 2025 06:23 am
I remember they traded for Nolan like in early February. Within like twelve hours, they dumped Fowler.
I thought, “here we go. Now we are going to see some moves.”
Nothing else happened.
One of the craziest things about Nolan’s first year was just how incomplete and vulnerable the roster was, despite having Arenado and Goldy….
Remember, that was the year shildt was fired.
1. The starting pitching was an absolute mess. We were having to pick up guys in early June from the scrap heap.
2. The outfield depth was the worst in the league. Our RF production was the worst in the league in the first half.
3. Carpenter allowed to stay on the team all year.
Ironically when they trade him, nothing else will happen. It hasn’t changed in these years.
Well the team situation is different now. They might just release him.
Maybe. My point was the environment surrounding the team seems to have stalled. As you stated, thunder followed by nothing. And none since. And none after he is gone.
I think the org is in better shape than some feel.
I think they gave up a draft pick in that Contreras signing. Other than that, they have mostly been accumulating for the last three years.
And, they won 83 last year and are .500 this year. They’re middling, but it’s not like they’re horrible.
Bloom will make some big moves this offseason. He will move on from some players, etc.
ecleme22 wrote: ↑08 Aug 2025 06:23 am
I remember they traded for Nolan like in early February. Within like twelve hours, they dumped Fowler.
I thought, “here we go. Now we are going to see some moves.”
Nothing else happened.
One of the craziest things about Nolan’s first year was just how incomplete and vulnerable the roster was, despite having Arenado and Goldy….
Remember, that was the year shildt was fired.
1. The starting pitching was an absolute mess. We were having to pick up guys in early June from the scrap heap.
2. The outfield depth was the worst in the league. Our RF production was the worst in the league in the first half.
3. Carpenter allowed to stay on the team all year.
Ironically when they trade him, nothing else will happen. It hasn’t changed in these years.
Well the team situation is different now. They might just release him.
Maybe. My point was the environment surrounding the team seems to have stalled. As you stated, thunder followed by nothing. And none since. And none after he is gone.
I think the org is in better shape than some feel.
I think they gave up a draft pick in that Contreras signing. Other than that, they have mostly been accumulating for the last three years.
And, they won 83 last year and are .500 this year. They’re middling, but it’s not like they’re horrible.
Bloom will make some big moves this offseason. He will move on from some players, etc.
I think 2026 will be a good year.
Well my model puts us at competing in 2027. One more year of pruning and adding. That’s in line with your thinking.
The mistake was not the trade. The trade was a great one, actually.
The mistake was when MO went to Southern California to sell Nado on how he was going to bring in players that fortified the team and make them a title contender. He sold Nado on the future so Nado would not opt out. The win would have been the trade, and then Nado opting out.
Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑08 Aug 2025 07:10 am
The mistake was not the trade. The trade was a great one, actually.
The mistake was when MO went to Southern California to sell Nado on how he was going to bring in players that fortified the team and make them a title contender. He sold Nado on the future so Nado would not opt out. The win would have been the trade, and then Nado opting out.
I believe that to be his point. Big trade no follow thru. Since. Nothing.
Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑08 Aug 2025 07:10 am
The mistake was not the trade. The trade was a great one, actually.
The mistake was when MO went to Southern California to sell Nado on how he was going to bring in players that fortified the team and make them a title contender. He sold Nado on the future so Nado would not opt out. The win would have been the trade, and then Nado opting out.
I believe that to be his point. Big trade no follow thru. Since. Nothing.
My point is that we should have been silently encouraging the opt-out.
Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑08 Aug 2025 07:10 am
The mistake was not the trade. The trade was a great one, actually.
The mistake was when MO went to Southern California to sell Nado on how he was going to bring in players that fortified the team and make them a title contender. He sold Nado on the future so Nado would not opt out. The win would have been the trade, and then Nado opting out.
I believe that to be his point. Big trade no follow thru. Since. Nothing.
My point is that we should have been silently encouraging the opt-out.
That’s tough to do. Silently. Encouraging. Both are fine lines in this discussion.
