Catcher Situation

[Talkin' Baseball]

I see the Crooks situation differently. I think he is the one you trade and I think it works best if you don't call him up first. You trade him because he is not the catcher of the future- Bernal is. You trade him because you can get something for him. You don't call him up first because he is 24 and looks to be major league ready. Why call him up if you don't need to, and possibly expose him as not being ready? Let the other team dream on him a bit. Sell high, sell on time, and don't do anything that messes that up.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

I'm okay with them waiting until September to call up Crooks and do something with Pages if they think that they can get something for him in the offseason. I do think that it would be extremely helpful for Crooks to get starts as soon as possible if not, though. But I do agree that I would wait until August 14th if that's the date that we won't lose a year of control for him.

[Bad14]

Stole this idea from some writer. Trade for Sean Murphy. Atlanta has a rookie catcher who's been very good and makes Murphy expendable. They can use the money for other places of need (like outfield). Murphy can tutor Bernal if he's the catcher of the future. It's very hard for any rookie catcher to walk in and be the starter. Murphy also destroys lefties so he helps address a weakness in the lineup. Atlanta doesn’t need a catching prospect so they'd have to involve another team or other prospects.

[ecleme22]

Stole this idea from some writer. Trade for Sean Murphy. Atlanta has a rookie catcher who's been very good and makes Murphy expendable. They can use the money for other places of need (like outfield). Murphy can tutor Bernal if he's the catcher of the future. It's very hard for any rookie catcher to walk in and be the starter. Murphy also destroys lefties so he helps address a weakness in the lineup. Atlanta doesn’t need a catching prospect so they'd have to involve another team or other prospects.

Oh god….

[Basil Shabazz]

Nothing is gained DFAing him now. Let Bloom gauge interest in the offseason. He might bring back a low level lottery ticket or be a part of a bigger trade as a small piece.

April 1, 2018 we dumped Breyvic Valera to the Dodgers for a minor leaguer.

July 18, 2018 the Dodgers traded him as a piece to get Manny Machado.

It’s all about proper asset management, not knee jerk reactions of a fan base who is frustrated.

Stop it. Don't act like Valera was a sought-after piece in the Machado deal. He was a throw-in roster dump. It is disingenuous or uninformed to act as if he were a coveted piece.

[ClassicO]

I'd DFA Pages (.200 .245 .319 .564)

Callup Crooks

Go w/him & Pozo the rest of the season.

This. Wait for August 14 so we don't lose a year of service for Crooks.

Bernal is likely the real future at catcher. So, should we really be concerned about 1 year service time for Crooks? See what they have in Crooks, move Pages back to Memphis, and we can see what we have in Crooks. The reality is, no matter what we have, he is likely the 2026 catcher with Bernal chasing him. I also thought the Cards could have potentially gotten something for Pozo at the deadline. Back-up catcher with a dangerous bat. That would have made room for Crooks immediately on the roster.

The real problem we are seeing with the roster is the redundancy of so many players without true stars at any of the positions except Winn at SS and Donovan at 2B. If Herrera is going to be an OF next year, which I think he will, they need to sort through Nootbar, Herrera, Walker, Burleson and Scott II in particular with Church on the way was well. They could easily trade 2 of those guys during the offseason and still have a logjam in the OF with no answers. I only bring up OF in this thread because of potentially moving a catcher, Herrera, into the OF.

I don't disagree with Bernal as #1 in the future - but why not wait 9 days for a year of service -- if only to add to trade value (years of control are a big +). I've used the term "redundancy" in the context of the Cards roster construction several times, and yes, it's a major problem.

[Basil Shabazz]

I see the Crooks situation differently. I think he is the one you trade and I think it works best if you don't call him up first. You trade him because he is not the catcher of the future- Bernal is. You trade him because you can get something for him. You don't call him up first because he is 24 and looks to be major league ready. Why call him up if you don't need to, and possibly expose him as not being ready? Let the other team dream on him a bit. Sell high, sell on time, and don't do anything that messes that up.

Disagree. I think Crooks/Bernal could make a nice cost-controlled tandem behind the dish for 3-5 years.

[Cranny]

Some are forgetting one of the most important aspects of catching - calling the pitches. Bill Freehan taught it to Mike Matheny who taught it to Yadier Molina. Pages probably does that well, and that’s why the pitchers like him behind the plate.
It takes studying the other team’s batter’s tendencies on different counts, their weaknesses in certain counts, etc. As well as their positioning in the batter’s box on various counts, seen up close and personal.

[Absolut]

Some are forgetting one of the most important aspects of catching - calling the pitches. Bill Freehan taught it to Mike Matheny who taught it to Yadier Molina. Pages probably does that well, and that’s why the pitchers like him behind the plate.
It takes studying the other team’s batter’s tendencies on different counts, their weaknesses in certain counts, etc. As well as their positioning in the batter’s box on various counts, seen up close and personal.

Couple of problems with your theory.

You assume the freehan-molina model applies in the tech age.
You assume it matters as much
You assume pages does it and does it well
You assume he studies these tendencies , weaknesses, et
You assume no other catcher does/ can do this in the system as well as him
You assume this gap in magic catching powers covers the fact he should bat with an apology note in his hand.

You offer no evidence of any of this.

[Bad14]

Stole this idea from some writer. Trade for Sean Murphy. Atlanta has a rookie catcher who's been very good and makes Murphy expendable. They can use the money for other places of need (like outfield). Murphy can tutor Bernal if he's the catcher of the future. It's very hard for any rookie catcher to walk in and be the starter. Murphy also destroys lefties so he helps address a weakness in the lineup. Atlanta doesn’t need a catching prospect so they'd have to involve another team or other prospects.

Oh god….

That's valuable input

[rockondlouie]

Some are forgetting one of the most important aspects of catching - calling the pitches. Bill Freehan taught it to Mike Matheny who taught it to Yadier Molina. Pages probably does that well, and that’s why the pitchers like him behind the plate.
It takes studying the other team’s batter’s tendencies on different counts, their weaknesses in certain counts, etc. As well as their positioning in the batter’s box on various counts, seen up close and personal.

And how have those pitchers been doing w/the great pitch caller behind the plate?

Pozo has a lower catcher ERA than Pages.

[Absolut]

Some are forgetting one of the most important aspects of catching - calling the pitches. Bill Freehan taught it to Mike Matheny who taught it to Yadier Molina. Pages probably does that well, and that’s why the pitchers like him behind the plate.
It takes studying the other team’s batter’s tendencies on different counts, their weaknesses in certain counts, etc. As well as their positioning in the batter’s box on various counts, seen up close and personal.

And how have those pitchers been doing w/the great pitch caller behind the plate?

Pozo has a lower catcher ERA than Pages.

Oof. Woke him up from his G rated fantasy. He’s gonna be cranky.

[Cranny]

Some are forgetting one of the most important aspects of catching - calling the pitches. Bill Freehan taught it to Mike Matheny who taught it to Yadier Molina. Pages probably does that well, and that’s why the pitchers like him behind the plate.
It takes studying the other team’s batter’s tendencies on different counts, their weaknesses in certain counts, etc. As well as their positioning in the batter’s box on various counts, seen up close and personal.

Couple of problems with your theory.

You assume the freehan-molina model applies in the tech age.
You assume it matters as much
You assume pages does it and does it well
You assume he studies these tendencies , weaknesses, et
You assume no other catcher does/ can do this in the system as well as him
You assume this gap in magic catching powers covers the fact he should bat with an apology note in his hand.

You offer no evidence of any of this.

Actually, Matheny has talked about how Bill Freehan taught him to call pitches, and how he passed it on to Molina. You’re right about assuming it with Pages. We’ve just heard about how the pitchers like pitching to him, and rarely do we see a pitcher shake off a sign. Maybe I’m assuming too much in his case, though. And I have no idea about Crooks, Bernal, and Rodriguez. That’s why I didn’t mention them.

[Stlcardsblues]

Nothing is gained DFAing him now. Let Bloom gauge interest in the offseason. He might bring back a low level lottery ticket or be a part of a bigger trade as a small piece.

April 1, 2018 we dumped Breyvic Valera to the Dodgers for a minor leaguer.

July 18, 2018 the Dodgers traded him as a piece to get Manny Machado.

It’s all about proper asset management, not knee jerk reactions of a fan base who is frustrated.

Stop it. Don't act like Valera was a sought-after piece in the Machado deal. He was a throw-in roster dump. It is disingenuous or uninformed to act as if he were a coveted piece.

Never did I say he was a big piece. My point was to see if Bloom can use Pages in a trade in the off season as a small piece. There is nothing gained DFAing him now.

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

I'd DFA Pages (.200 .245 .319 .564)

Callup Crooks

Go w/him & Pozo the rest of the season.

This. Wait for August 14 so we don't lose a year of service for Crooks.

Good call

[Talkin' Baseball]

I see the Crooks situation differently. I think he is the one you trade and I think it works best if you don't call him up first. You trade him because he is not the catcher of the future- Bernal is. You trade him because you can get something for him. You don't call him up first because he is 24 and looks to be major league ready. Why call him up if you don't need to, and possibly expose him as not being ready? Let the other team dream on him a bit. Sell high, sell on time, and don't do anything that messes that up.

Disagree. I think Crooks/Bernal could make a nice cost-controlled tandem behind the dish for 3-5 years.

Even if you could get a pitcher with upside? An example would be Santiago Suarez from Tampa. They have similar trade values. They draft and develop pitchers well, but have had a black hole at catcher for forever. Would you not trade Crooks for Suarez, or a pitcher like him?