Sonny Gray stinks. Trade 'em

[WeeVikes]

7 IP 1 h 1r 8K at Dodger Stadium. We don't need that in our rotation next year or for his option in 2027.

What a dumb take. No one thought this.

I think the blue font was implied

[rockondlouie]

Dewitt was aching to get rid of the 2026 salary, glad Sonny told him "No".

Sonny is owed $35m for next season plus at least a $5m buyout on his $30m team option for 2027. So guaranteed $40m left on his deal.

He clearly likes it here for whatever reason as he's politely declined to waive his NTC twice now. No reason to think that changes this off-season.

You know the Cardinals don't love that $35m salary next season. I'm wondering if the Cards approach him with an extension to tack on another year to spread out the AAV a bit. Something like $25m for 2026, $30m for 2027, and the same $5m buyout on a $30m team option for 2028. Guarantees him an extra $20m and potentially $45m if the option is exercised.

But if I'm Sonny, I tell the FO I'm only agreeing to that to help out the 2026 payroll AFTER they acquire (sign or trade) for another TOTR arm. I like Libby, Pallante, McGreevy, etc. But this team isn't going anywhere without another playoff caliber starter. Those guys have value as reliable back of the rotation arms to eat some innings and keep you competitive. They aren't enough to actually make this team good. Bring in another difference maker then Mathews or Doyle are icing on the cake if they push into the rotation. No reason for Sonny to do them any favors if they're just going to pocket the savings.

Interesting idea about Gray extension Walt.

But I'm not a fan of Pallante, just a weak #5 with no upside at best.

Hopefully Bloom adds a starter (or two) via trades and/or free agency.

I'm also starting to get excited again about Q. Mathews (Last 6 GS: 2.93 ERA), I'd like to see him get a shot next spring.

Doyle, if he does well, could be up at any time in 2026 as well.

[Youboughtit]

7 IP 1 h 1r 8K at Dodger Stadium. We don't need that in our rotation next year or for his option in 2027.

35 years old making $35m next year on a team in a 3-5 year rebuild was why he was a trade piece. His timeline age and salary are not a match for a rebuild.

[scoutyjones2]

7 IP 1 h 1r 8K at Dodger Stadium. We don't need that in our rotation next year or for his option in 2027.

I don’t think the trade talk had anything to do with his performance. He was possibly a valuable trade chip with a good to high return.

Actually it was performance (4.21 ERA) ,and that he's owed $40 million, and he won't move on his NTC.

[WaltsSuccessor]

Dewitt was aching to get rid of the 2026 salary, glad Sonny told him "No".

Sonny is owed $35m for next season plus at least a $5m buyout on his $30m team option for 2027. So guaranteed $40m left on his deal.

He clearly likes it here for whatever reason as he's politely declined to waive his NTC twice now. No reason to think that changes this off-season.

You know the Cardinals don't love that $35m salary next season. I'm wondering if the Cards approach him with an extension to tack on another year to spread out the AAV a bit. Something like $25m for 2026, $30m for 2027, and the same $5m buyout on a $30m team option for 2028. Guarantees him an extra $20m and potentially $45m if the option is exercised.

But if I'm Sonny, I tell the FO I'm only agreeing to that to help out the 2026 payroll AFTER they acquire (sign or trade) for another TOTR arm. I like Libby, Pallante, McGreevy, etc. But this team isn't going anywhere without another playoff caliber starter. Those guys have value as reliable back of the rotation arms to eat some innings and keep you competitive. They aren't enough to actually make this team good. Bring in another difference maker then Mathews or Doyle are icing on the cake if they push into the rotation. No reason for Sonny to do them any favors if they're just going to pocket the savings.

Nice idea…..but not going to happen

Sonny is about Sonny…..

And I don’t blame him….this is professional sports….

Why should he take a hit to cover for front office incompetence

and the last thing the club should is extend a 38 year old pitcher

It's not a hit to Sonny. It's an extra $20m guaranteed. $45m if he pitches well. He'll be 37 going into 2027. There's a mutually beneficial number in there somewhere. He's not going to get a monster FA deal heading into his 37 season regardless.

[WaltsSuccessor]

Dewitt was aching to get rid of the 2026 salary, glad Sonny told him "No".

Sonny is owed $35m for next season plus at least a $5m buyout on his $30m team option for 2027. So guaranteed $40m left on his deal.

He clearly likes it here for whatever reason as he's politely declined to waive his NTC twice now. No reason to think that changes this off-season.

You know the Cardinals don't love that $35m salary next season. I'm wondering if the Cards approach him with an extension to tack on another year to spread out the AAV a bit. Something like $25m for 2026, $30m for 2027, and the same $5m buyout on a $30m team option for 2028. Guarantees him an extra $20m and potentially $45m if the option is exercised.

But if I'm Sonny, I tell the FO I'm only agreeing to that to help out the 2026 payroll AFTER they acquire (sign or trade) for another TOTR arm. I like Libby, Pallante, McGreevy, etc. But this team isn't going anywhere without another playoff caliber starter. Those guys have value as reliable back of the rotation arms to eat some innings and keep you competitive. They aren't enough to actually make this team good. Bring in another difference maker then Mathews or Doyle are icing on the cake if they push into the rotation. No reason for Sonny to do them any favors if they're just going to pocket the savings.

Interesting idea about Gray extension Walt.

But I'm not a fan of Pallante, just a weak #5 with no upside at best.

Hopefully Bloom adds a starter (or two) via trades and/or free agency.

I'm also starting to get excited again about Q. Mathews (Last 6 GS: 2.93 ERA), I'd like to see him get a shot next spring.

Doyle, if he does well, could be up at any time in 2026 as well.

Wonder who would be a good target in FA. Obviously we aren't going to sign Cease of Valdez. Maybe there's a good turnaround upside guy that needs that pillow contract like Flaherty or Rodon (Giants).

Maybe Bieber? Gallen? Walker Buehler? Dustin May or German Marquez if they finish strong? Preferably somebody not super old.

[45s]

Dewitt was aching to get rid of the 2026 salary, glad Sonny told him "No".

Sonny is owed $35m for next season plus at least a $5m buyout on his $30m team option for 2027. So guaranteed $40m left on his deal.

He clearly likes it here for whatever reason as he's politely declined to waive his NTC twice now. No reason to think that changes this off-season.

You know the Cardinals don't love that $35m salary next season. I'm wondering if the Cards approach him with an extension to tack on another year to spread out the AAV a bit. Something like $25m for 2026, $30m for 2027, and the same $5m buyout on a $30m team option for 2028. Guarantees him an extra $20m and potentially $45m if the option is exercised.

But if I'm Sonny, I tell the FO I'm only agreeing to that to help out the 2026 payroll AFTER they acquire (sign or trade) for another TOTR arm. I like Libby, Pallante, McGreevy, etc. But this team isn't going anywhere without another playoff caliber starter. Those guys have value as reliable back of the rotation arms to eat some innings and keep you competitive. They aren't enough to actually make this team good. Bring in another difference maker then Mathews or Doyle are icing on the cake if they push into the rotation. No reason for Sonny to do them any favors if they're just going to pocket the savings.

Nice idea…..but not going to happen

Sonny is about Sonny…..

And I don’t blame him….this is professional sports….

Why should he take a hit to cover for front office incompetence

and the last thing the club should is extend a 38 year old pitcher

It's not a hit to Sonny. It's an extra $20m guaranteed. $45m if he pitches well. He'll be 37 going into 2027. There's a mutually beneficial number in there somewhere. He's not going to get a monster FA deal heading into his 37 season regardless.

Good points….

I just don’t see a rebuild including a player of that age

They are stuck with him for two years…at that point ..

C Ya Later

[rockondlouie]

Dewitt was aching to get rid of the 2026 salary, glad Sonny told him "No".

Sonny is owed $35m for next season plus at least a $5m buyout on his $30m team option for 2027. So guaranteed $40m left on his deal.

He clearly likes it here for whatever reason as he's politely declined to waive his NTC twice now. No reason to think that changes this off-season.

You know the Cardinals don't love that $35m salary next season. I'm wondering if the Cards approach him with an extension to tack on another year to spread out the AAV a bit. Something like $25m for 2026, $30m for 2027, and the same $5m buyout on a $30m team option for 2028. Guarantees him an extra $20m and potentially $45m if the option is exercised.

But if I'm Sonny, I tell the FO I'm only agreeing to that to help out the 2026 payroll AFTER they acquire (sign or trade) for another TOTR arm. I like Libby, Pallante, McGreevy, etc. But this team isn't going anywhere without another playoff caliber starter. Those guys have value as reliable back of the rotation arms to eat some innings and keep you competitive. They aren't enough to actually make this team good. Bring in another difference maker then Mathews or Doyle are icing on the cake if they push into the rotation. No reason for Sonny to do them any favors if they're just going to pocket the savings.

Interesting idea about Gray extension Walt.

But I'm not a fan of Pallante, just a weak #5 with no upside at best.

Hopefully Bloom adds a starter (or two) via trades and/or free agency.

I'm also starting to get excited again about Q. Mathews (Last 6 GS: 2.93 ERA), I'd like to see him get a shot next spring.

Doyle, if he does well, could be up at any time in 2026 as well.

Wonder who would be a good target in FA. Obviously we aren't going to sign Cease of Valdez. Maybe there's a good turnaround upside guy that needs that pillow contract like Flaherty or Rodon (Giants).

Maybe Bieber? Gallen? Walker Buehler? Dustin May or German Marquez if they finish strong? Preferably somebody not super old.

Good question

Of those you listed, I wonder if they'd take a look at Z. Gallen/30 (coming off a poor 2025 but prior was a top NL starter)?

I have no interest in May or Marquez.

Biebers injury prone, Buehler hasn't been the healthiest either.

Trade targets could be where Bloom goes for his starter.

I know this isn't popular w/some but I'd dangle M. Winn (and one of our young minor league catchers) and try to land a cost controlled for multiple years #2 starter.

[riff raff]

Dewitt was aching to get rid of the 2026 salary, glad Sonny told him "No".

Sonny is owed $35m for next season plus at least a $5m buyout on his $30m team option for 2027. So guaranteed $40m left on his deal.

He clearly likes it here for whatever reason as he's politely declined to waive his NTC twice now. No reason to think that changes this off-season.

You know the Cardinals don't love that $35m salary next season. I'm wondering if the Cards approach him with an extension to tack on another year to spread out the AAV a bit. Something like $25m for 2026, $30m for 2027, and the same $5m buyout on a $30m team option for 2028. Guarantees him an extra $20m and potentially $45m if the option is exercised.

But if I'm Sonny, I tell the FO I'm only agreeing to that to help out the 2026 payroll AFTER they acquire (sign or trade) for another TOTR arm. I like Libby, Pallante, McGreevy, etc. But this team isn't going anywhere without another playoff caliber starter. Those guys have value as reliable back of the rotation arms to eat some innings and keep you competitive. They aren't enough to actually make this team good. Bring in another difference maker then Mathews or Doyle are icing on the cake if they push into the rotation. No reason for Sonny to do them any favors if they're just going to pocket the savings.

Interesting idea about Gray extension Walt.

But I'm not a fan of Pallante, just a weak #5 with no upside at best.

Hopefully Bloom adds a starter (or two) via trades and/or free agency.

I'm also starting to get excited again about Q. Mathews (Last 6 GS: 2.93 ERA), I'd like to see him get a shot next spring.

Doyle, if he does well, could be up at any time in 2026 as well.

Wonder who would be a good target in FA. Obviously we aren't going to sign Cease of Valdez. Maybe there's a good turnaround upside guy that needs that pillow contract like Flaherty or Rodon (Giants).

Maybe Bieber? Gallen? Walker Buehler? Dustin May or German Marquez if they finish strong? Preferably somebody not super old.

Good question

Of those you listed, I wonder if they'd take a look at Z. Gallen/30 (coming off a poor 2025 but prior was a top NL starter)?

I have no interest in May or Marquez.

Biebers injury prone, Buehler hasn't been the healthiest either.

Trade targets could be where Bloom goes for his starter.

I know this isn't popular w/some but I'd dangle M. Winn (and one of our young minor league catchers) and try to land a cost controlled for multiple years #2 starter.

It's not popular because it's a bad idea.

[RunSup]

Dewitt was aching to get rid of the 2026 salary, glad Sonny told him "No".

Sonny is owed $35m for next season plus at least a $5m buyout on his $30m team option for 2027. So guaranteed $40m left on his deal.

He clearly likes it here for whatever reason as he's politely declined to waive his NTC twice now. No reason to think that changes this off-season.

You know the Cardinals don't love that $35m salary next season. I'm wondering if the Cards approach him with an extension to tack on another year to spread out the AAV a bit. Something like $25m for 2026, $30m for 2027, and the same $5m buyout on a $30m team option for 2028. Guarantees him an extra $20m and potentially $45m if the option is exercised.

But if I'm Sonny, I tell the FO I'm only agreeing to that to help out the 2026 payroll AFTER they acquire (sign or trade) for another TOTR arm. I like Libby, Pallante, McGreevy, etc. But this team isn't going anywhere without another playoff caliber starter. Those guys have value as reliable back of the rotation arms to eat some innings and keep you competitive. They aren't enough to actually make this team good. Bring in another difference maker then Mathews or Doyle are icing on the cake if they push into the rotation. No reason for Sonny to do them any favors if they're just going to pocket the savings.

Interesting idea about Gray extension Walt.

But I'm not a fan of Pallante, just a weak #5 with no upside at best.

Hopefully Bloom adds a starter (or two) via trades and/or free agency.

I'm also starting to get excited again about Q. Mathews (Last 6 GS: 2.93 ERA), I'd like to see him get a shot next spring.

Doyle, if he does well, could be up at any time in 2026 as well.

Wonder who would be a good target in FA. Obviously we aren't going to sign Cease of Valdez. Maybe there's a good turnaround upside guy that needs that pillow contract like Flaherty or Rodon (Giants).

Maybe Bieber? Gallen? Walker Buehler? Dustin May or German Marquez if they finish strong? Preferably somebody not super old.

Good question

Of those you listed, I wonder if they'd take a look at Z. Gallen/30 (coming off a poor 2025 but prior was a top NL starter)?

I have no interest in May or Marquez.

Biebers injury prone, Buehler hasn't been the healthiest either.

Trade targets could be where Bloom goes for his starter.

I know this isn't popular w/some but I'd dangle M. Winn (and one of our young minor league catchers) and try to land a cost controlled for multiple years #2 starter.

Well, Cease might actually be affordable. But he stinks unless he's pitching against the Cardinals.

Also he's gotta shave that 'stache. And get a haircut. He's no Skenes.

Vern Rapp jr for manager! Let's major on the meaningless minors for a change.

[rockondlouie]

Dewitt was aching to get rid of the 2026 salary, glad Sonny told him "No".

Sonny is owed $35m for next season plus at least a $5m buyout on his $30m team option for 2027. So guaranteed $40m left on his deal.

He clearly likes it here for whatever reason as he's politely declined to waive his NTC twice now. No reason to think that changes this off-season.

You know the Cardinals don't love that $35m salary next season. I'm wondering if the Cards approach him with an extension to tack on another year to spread out the AAV a bit. Something like $25m for 2026, $30m for 2027, and the same $5m buyout on a $30m team option for 2028. Guarantees him an extra $20m and potentially $45m if the option is exercised.

But if I'm Sonny, I tell the FO I'm only agreeing to that to help out the 2026 payroll AFTER they acquire (sign or trade) for another TOTR arm. I like Libby, Pallante, McGreevy, etc. But this team isn't going anywhere without another playoff caliber starter. Those guys have value as reliable back of the rotation arms to eat some innings and keep you competitive. They aren't enough to actually make this team good. Bring in another difference maker then Mathews or Doyle are icing on the cake if they push into the rotation. No reason for Sonny to do them any favors if they're just going to pocket the savings.

Interesting idea about Gray extension Walt.

But I'm not a fan of Pallante, just a weak #5 with no upside at best.

Hopefully Bloom adds a starter (or two) via trades and/or free agency.

I'm also starting to get excited again about Q. Mathews (Last 6 GS: 2.93 ERA), I'd like to see him get a shot next spring.

Doyle, if he does well, could be up at any time in 2026 as well.

Wonder who would be a good target in FA. Obviously we aren't going to sign Cease of Valdez. Maybe there's a good turnaround upside guy that needs that pillow contract like Flaherty or Rodon (Giants).

Maybe Bieber? Gallen? Walker Buehler? Dustin May or German Marquez if they finish strong? Preferably somebody not super old.

Good question

Of those you listed, I wonder if they'd take a look at Z. Gallen/30 (coming off a poor 2025 but prior was a top NL starter)?

I have no interest in May or Marquez.

Biebers injury prone, Buehler hasn't been the healthiest either.

Trade targets could be where Bloom goes for his starter.

I know this isn't popular w/some but I'd dangle M. Winn (and one of our young minor league catchers) and try to land a cost controlled for multiple years #2 starter.

Well, Cease might actually be affordable. But he stinks unless he's pitching against the Cardinals.

Also he's gotta shave that 'stache. And get a haircut. He's no Skenes.

Vern Rapp jr for manager! Let's major on the meaningless minors for a change.

Hungo agrees w/you

[WaltsSuccessor]

Dewitt was aching to get rid of the 2026 salary, glad Sonny told him "No".

Sonny is owed $35m for next season plus at least a $5m buyout on his $30m team option for 2027. So guaranteed $40m left on his deal.

He clearly likes it here for whatever reason as he's politely declined to waive his NTC twice now. No reason to think that changes this off-season.

You know the Cardinals don't love that $35m salary next season. I'm wondering if the Cards approach him with an extension to tack on another year to spread out the AAV a bit. Something like $25m for 2026, $30m for 2027, and the same $5m buyout on a $30m team option for 2028. Guarantees him an extra $20m and potentially $45m if the option is exercised.

But if I'm Sonny, I tell the FO I'm only agreeing to that to help out the 2026 payroll AFTER they acquire (sign or trade) for another TOTR arm. I like Libby, Pallante, McGreevy, etc. But this team isn't going anywhere without another playoff caliber starter. Those guys have value as reliable back of the rotation arms to eat some innings and keep you competitive. They aren't enough to actually make this team good. Bring in another difference maker then Mathews or Doyle are icing on the cake if they push into the rotation. No reason for Sonny to do them any favors if they're just going to pocket the savings.

Interesting idea about Gray extension Walt.

But I'm not a fan of Pallante, just a weak #5 with no upside at best.

Hopefully Bloom adds a starter (or two) via trades and/or free agency.

I'm also starting to get excited again about Q. Mathews (Last 6 GS: 2.93 ERA), I'd like to see him get a shot next spring.

Doyle, if he does well, could be up at any time in 2026 as well.

Wonder who would be a good target in FA. Obviously we aren't going to sign Cease of Valdez. Maybe there's a good turnaround upside guy that needs that pillow contract like Flaherty or Rodon (Giants).

Maybe Bieber? Gallen? Walker Buehler? Dustin May or German Marquez if they finish strong? Preferably somebody not super old.

Good question

Of those you listed, I wonder if they'd take a look at Z. Gallen/30 (coming off a poor 2025 but prior was a top NL starter)?

I have no interest in May or Marquez.

Biebers injury prone, Buehler hasn't been the healthiest either.

Trade targets could be where Bloom goes for his starter.

I know this isn't popular w/some but I'd dangle M. Winn (and one of our young minor league catchers) and try to land a cost controlled for multiple years #2 starter.

That puts a lot of pressure on JJ to succeed. Winn isn't a superstar (yet), but he has such a high floor. I don't like trading him at all. I get you have to give to get, but I'd pick someone else to move. I like Donny but he makes more sense to trade this offseason than Winn.

[Carp4Cy]

He doesn’t stink. He’s a 2 on a contender moving forward.

The question is what good does a number two do you for the next couple seasons if you don’t have a viable number one or three and your lineup isn’t up to snuff. If the Cardinals are going to add to the team and truly try to win next year then you want Gray around. If not, why not trade him for pieces that can help when you’re actually ready to contend?

By my estimation, Gray helps us more on the off chance the NL central collapses next year and we back into a division lead with him anchoring the rotation than random pieces might somehow help us in some future year.

We aren’t getting a 70 grade prospect for a SP with a $35m price tag attached. Jags and lotto tickets don’t move the needle.

[Carp4Cy]

7 IP 1 h 1r 8K at Dodger Stadium. We don't need that in our rotation next year or for his option in 2027.

35 years old making $35m next year on a team in a 3-5 year rebuild was why he was a trade piece. His timeline age and salary are not a match for a rebuild.

Taking five years for a rebuild is gross negligence. If you can’t get it done in (way) less than five years, you aren’t gonna get it done at all.

Smoke and mirrors. I’d rather go back to trying to win the division every year then hoping you get lucky in the playoffs because sometimes that works while this race to the bottom is just going to fail miserably and chase off all the fans.

[rockondlouie]

Dewitt was aching to get rid of the 2026 salary, glad Sonny told him "No".

Sonny is owed $35m for next season plus at least a $5m buyout on his $30m team option for 2027. So guaranteed $40m left on his deal.

He clearly likes it here for whatever reason as he's politely declined to waive his NTC twice now. No reason to think that changes this off-season.

You know the Cardinals don't love that $35m salary next season. I'm wondering if the Cards approach him with an extension to tack on another year to spread out the AAV a bit. Something like $25m for 2026, $30m for 2027, and the same $5m buyout on a $30m team option for 2028. Guarantees him an extra $20m and potentially $45m if the option is exercised.

But if I'm Sonny, I tell the FO I'm only agreeing to that to help out the 2026 payroll AFTER they acquire (sign or trade) for another TOTR arm. I like Libby, Pallante, McGreevy, etc. But this team isn't going anywhere without another playoff caliber starter. Those guys have value as reliable back of the rotation arms to eat some innings and keep you competitive. They aren't enough to actually make this team good. Bring in another difference maker then Mathews or Doyle are icing on the cake if they push into the rotation. No reason for Sonny to do them any favors if they're just going to pocket the savings.

Interesting idea about Gray extension Walt.

But I'm not a fan of Pallante, just a weak #5 with no upside at best.

Hopefully Bloom adds a starter (or two) via trades and/or free agency.

I'm also starting to get excited again about Q. Mathews (Last 6 GS: 2.93 ERA), I'd like to see him get a shot next spring.

Doyle, if he does well, could be up at any time in 2026 as well.

Wonder who would be a good target in FA. Obviously we aren't going to sign Cease of Valdez. Maybe there's a good turnaround upside guy that needs that pillow contract like Flaherty or Rodon (Giants).

Maybe Bieber? Gallen? Walker Buehler? Dustin May or German Marquez if they finish strong? Preferably somebody not super old.

Good question

Of those you listed, I wonder if they'd take a look at Z. Gallen/30 (coming off a poor 2025 but prior was a top NL starter)?

I have no interest in May or Marquez.

Biebers injury prone, Buehler hasn't been the healthiest either.

Trade targets could be where Bloom goes for his starter.

I know this isn't popular w/some but I'd dangle M. Winn (and one of our young minor league catchers) and try to land a cost controlled for multiple years #2 starter.

That puts a lot of pressure on JJ to succeed. Winn isn't a superstar (yet), but he has such a high floor. I don't like trading him at all. I get you have to give to get, but I'd pick someone else to move. I like Donny but he makes more sense to trade this offseason than Winn.

I'm not worried about that one bit, JJ (IMO) is the player to build around.

And (again IMO) Winn will never be a "superstar", most likely never even a multi-time all-star.

His floor as a hitter isn't high, he's likely nothing more than a league average (100 - 105 wRC+) hitter.

I'd move him in a NY minute for a young, cost controlled #2 starter and never look back.

JMO

[Youboughtit]

7 IP 1 h 1r 8K at Dodger Stadium. We don't need that in our rotation next year or for his option in 2027.

35 years old making $35m next year on a team in a 3-5 year rebuild was why he was a trade piece. His timeline age and salary are not a match for a rebuild.

Taking five years for a rebuild is gross negligence. If you can’t get it done in (way) less than five years, you aren’t gonna get it done at all.

Smoke and mirrors. I’d rather go back to trying to win the division every year then hoping you get lucky in the playoffs because sometimes that works while this race to the bottom is just going to fail miserably and chase off all the fans.

Certainly more than the time remaining on Grays contract