Catcher Situation

[Basil Shabazz]

Can anyone honestly say Pedro Pages is a better defensive catcher than Willson Contreras? I can’t.

Sure, each has strengths the other doesn't, but overall, they’re pretty equal behind the plate. That being the case, wouldn’t it have made a lot more sense to keep Contreras catching 100+ games in 2025?

Offensively, there’s no comparison between Pages and Contreras. And in a year when we’re supposed to be evaluating young talent, we’ve given Pages—who’s not part of the long-term plan and realistically projects as a fringe backup—nearly 100 starts and over 350 plate appearances. That’s a significant opportunity cost.

Had Contreras stayed behind the plate, it would’ve opened up DH, 1B, LF, and RF at-bats for younger players who actually do have a chance to contribute moving forward. Instead, we moved Contreras to first base—a move that, in hindsight, feels like a misstep.

[ecleme22]

Can anyone honestly say Pedro Pages is a better defensive catcher than Willson Contreras? I can’t.

Sure, each has strengths the other doesn't, but overall, they’re pretty equal behind the plate. That being the case, wouldn’t it have made a lot more sense to keep Contreras catching 100+ games in 2025?

Offensively, there’s no comparison between Pages and Contreras. And in a year when we’re supposed to be evaluating young talent, we’ve given Pages—who’s not part of the long-term plan and realistically projects as a fringe backup—nearly 100 starts and over 350 plate appearances. That’s a significant opportunity cost.

Had Contreras stayed behind the plate, it would’ve opened up DH, 1B, LF, and RF at-bats for younger players who actually do have a chance to contribute moving forward. Instead, we moved Contreras to first base—a move that, in hindsight, feels like a misstep.

Contreras is getting older and he's been getting hurt behind the plate. Moving him to 1B has appeared to be a great move.

And with regards to younger players, who? Burleson and Gorman? Yawn.

Let's release Arenado. That will open up some options.

[Basil Shabazz]

Can anyone honestly say Pedro Pages is a better defensive catcher than Willson Contreras? I can’t.

Sure, each has strengths the other doesn't, but overall, they’re pretty equal behind the plate. That being the case, wouldn’t it have made a lot more sense to keep Contreras catching 100+ games in 2025?

Offensively, there’s no comparison between Pages and Contreras. And in a year when we’re supposed to be evaluating young talent, we’ve given Pages—who’s not part of the long-term plan and realistically projects as a fringe backup—nearly 100 starts and over 350 plate appearances. That’s a significant opportunity cost.

Had Contreras stayed behind the plate, it would’ve opened up DH, 1B, LF, and RF at-bats for younger players who actually do have a chance to contribute moving forward. Instead, we moved Contreras to first base—a move that, in hindsight, feels like a misstep.

Contreras is getting older and he's been getting hurt behind the plate. Moving him to 1B has appeared to be a great move.

And with regards to younger players, who? Burleson and Gorman? Yawn.

Let's release Arenado. That will open up some options.

Burleson and Gorman are light years better offensively than Pedro Pages. At least they have the potential to be part of the 26 team and beyond. Further, the move to 1B has not made Contreras any more valuable offensively than he was as a catcher. The difference is that his production as a catcher makes him very valuable, whereas the same production as a 1B makes him JAG.

[rockondlouie]

I'd DFA Pages (.200 .245 .319 .564)

Callup Crooks

Go w/him & Pozo the rest of the season.

[ecleme22]

Can anyone honestly say Pedro Pages is a better defensive catcher than Willson Contreras? I can’t.

Sure, each has strengths the other doesn't, but overall, they’re pretty equal behind the plate. That being the case, wouldn’t it have made a lot more sense to keep Contreras catching 100+ games in 2025?

Offensively, there’s no comparison between Pages and Contreras. And in a year when we’re supposed to be evaluating young talent, we’ve given Pages—who’s not part of the long-term plan and realistically projects as a fringe backup—nearly 100 starts and over 350 plate appearances. That’s a significant opportunity cost.

Had Contreras stayed behind the plate, it would’ve opened up DH, 1B, LF, and RF at-bats for younger players who actually do have a chance to contribute moving forward. Instead, we moved Contreras to first base—a move that, in hindsight, feels like a misstep.

Contreras is getting older and he's been getting hurt behind the plate. Moving him to 1B has appeared to be a great move.

And with regards to younger players, who? Burleson and Gorman? Yawn.

Let's release Arenado. That will open up some options.

Burleson and Gorman are light years better offensively than Pedro Pages. At least they have the potential to be part of the 26 team and beyond. Further, the move to 1B has not made Contreras any more valuable offensively than he was as a catcher. The difference is that his production as a catcher makes him very valuable, whereas the same production as a 1B makes him JAG.

Conteras has a 120 OPS+ and is on pace for 20+ HR and 40 doubles. I'm guessing his OPS is around .850 since May 1st.

Just because "Burleson is a better hitter than Pages so maybe Burleson should be at 1B and Conteras catcher," it shouldn't work like that.

Conteras is thriving at 1B and is on pace to surpass his most PAs for a season by about 70. He has been big bright spot.

Also, maybe we should look at this decision more about making room for the younger catchers in 2026 and 2027.

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

I'd DFA Pages (.200 .245 .319 .564)

Callup Crooks

Go w/him & Pozo the rest of the season.

Agreed. He was helpful but now is time to go.

[JohnnyMO]

I have a feeling the Cardinals are going to try Herrera behind the plate again next season and are still holding out hope he’s their primary catcher the next couple of years.

[Basil Shabazz]

Also, maybe we should look at this decision more about making room for the younger catchers in 2026 and 2027.

The conversation is about 2025 PAs. Stay focused.

Also, Contreras is on pace for his worst offensive season since '21. His avg, slg, obp, ops, & ops+ are all down. Counting stats are up due to more PAs. And I like Willson.

'26 would have been a better time with him to platoon w/ Crooks behind the plate and then DH/1B 2/3 of the time against RHP.

[ecleme22]

Also, maybe we should look at this decision more about making room for the younger catchers in 2026 and 2027.

The conversation is about 2025 PAs. Stay focused.

Also, Contreras is on pace for his worst offensive season since '21. His avg, slg, obp, ops, & ops+ are all down. Counting stats are up due to more PAs. And I like Willson.

'26 would have been a better time with him to platoon w/ Crooks behind the plate and then DH/1B 2/3 of the time against RHP.

Well I think you're a little shortsighted.

Burleson will have nearly 600 PAs. He's fine.

Gorman lacks PAs, but a lot of that is due to Arenado.

Moving WC to 1B solved a number of problems. So what if 'giving looking baker a longer look' wasn't one of them.

Also, WC has actually been really good.

He had a horrible .452 OPS on April 19th. Why? Who knows.

But has been an absolute beast since then. And his counting stats are impressive. If Burleson was on pace for 20hr and 40 doubles while sporting a .790 OPS, people on CT would be going nuts.

[Talkin' Baseball]

It's a moot discussion. Contreras will not catch again for the Cardinals. At all. He will be the Cardinals 1B until his contract expires, or he waives his NTC. 1B, not C. All the "what iffin"" isn't going to change a thing. Herrera is headed the same direction. Fortunately, the Cardinals do have intriguing catching options nearly big league ready to talk about.

[Basil Shabazz]

King of shifting. Luken Baker was never mentioned until you brought him up.

And you can't omit part of a season to make the whole season read the way you want it to. Bottom line is that Contreras is marginally worse this year than he has been the past few years. But as a catcher, he'd be a top-tier performer.

[JDW]

Ideally I would have liked to see one of Pages/Pozo traded before the deadline and then get Crooks up here to see how he does the rest of this year while promoting Bernal to Memphis. Didn't happen, so here we are.
Moving forward, accepting that both Contreras and Herrera had some issues either behind the plate and/or working with the pitchers is the way to go, and seeing what Crooks and Bernal are behind the plate at the show sooner than later should be the plan. Crooks ETA was 2025. He hasn't done anything to indicate he isn't ready for the opportunity. Bernal's ETA is 2026. Keep them on schedule.

[sdaltons]

They should have ridden Herrera back there for this entire season and let him work through his issues. If this year was truly supposed to be about a transition to youth, this would have been the obvious decision.

We were spoiled for years and years behind the plate, but there just isn't going to be another Yadi waiting in the wings. So give the job to Herrera, at least until the next wave is ready.

[BrockFloodMaris]

Can anyone honestly say Pedro Pages is a better defensive catcher than Willson Contreras? I can’t.

Sure, each has strengths the other doesn't, but overall, they’re pretty equal behind the plate. That being the case, wouldn’t it have made a lot more sense to keep Contreras catching 100+ games in 2025?

Offensively, there’s no comparison between Pages and Contreras. And in a year when we’re supposed to be evaluating young talent, we’ve given Pages—who’s not part of the long-term plan and realistically projects as a fringe backup—nearly 100 starts and over 350 plate appearances. That’s a significant opportunity cost.

Had Contreras stayed behind the plate, it would’ve opened up DH, 1B, LF, and RF at-bats for younger players who actually do have a chance to contribute moving forward. Instead, we moved Contreras to first base—a move that, in hindsight, feels like a misstep.

A comparison between Pages and WC isn’t terribly relevant. WC was already firmly planted at 1B when Oli fell in love with Pages, during a Herrera injury, if I recall correctly. Everyone gushed over PP’s game calling, pitch framing, blocking technique and the trust the pitching staff had in him. It appears that all those attributes fade when you can’t hit much and you get exposed to everyday play through the hot STL summer. I’m ready for Crooks III.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

I'd DFA Pages (.200 .245 .319 .564)

Callup Crooks

Go w/him & Pozo the rest of the season.

Same.

He ain't Yadi and that line is about as bad as Yadi ever looked in his last year. So I don't know why he continues to get a bunch of playing time.

[ecleme22]

King of shifting. Luken Baker was never mentioned until you brought him up.

And you can't omit part of a season to make the whole season read the way you want it to. Bottom line is that Contreras is marginally worse this year than he has been the past few years. But as a catcher, he'd be a top-tier performer.

Contreras has a 120 ops+.

And as a poster pointed out, the WC at 1b plan was designed to move Herrera at catcher.

The latter didn’t work out.

But what IS working out is Contreras at 1b, who has like an .850 ops since April 19