Katie Woo: This time it's different--Gonna be a longer process than they thought

[3dender]

So what Woo's saying is it only took the F.O. 2 years longer than some average anonymous internet joes to figure out that this was gonna be longer than a one year blip. Comforting!

[JuanAgosto]

So frustrating that it's at this point. The team had plenty of resources to add the needed pieces to contend. They went cheap. Now, the goal is to be a .500 team. The 'runway' is full of junked planes. Mozeliak crashed a perineal winner. Arrogance, greed, and laziness brought the current situation.

[Strummer Jones]

Yea, they screwed up and should have admitted to themselves that they needed a rebuild. Suck it up that the fans aren't going to understand it and do it. Now they wasted two years of rebuilding and you're looking at 2023-2026, at the least, being rebuild years.

And I really think a lot of the fans would've been okay with it and understood if if they had just been honest.

Sure, it might've kept the casuals away, probably. But the larger part of the rank and file would've likely still supported them. And then all the junkies like us who get excited when they call up a set-up man from Memphis would've still come. I doubt they''d sell out, but I can easily see the legit attendance being 25-30,000 people in the park.

A lot of the unpleasantness with the fans could've been avoided if they were just honest. Look at the Blues.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

And I really think a lot of the fans would've been okay with it and understood if if they had just been honest.

Well, that's what I'm not sure about. I remember a lot of posters after we sold players at the deadline in 2023 wondering why the trades didn't make the team better right away. I'm still not sure people get it. And I do think that's part of why ownership is so weird about it.

But yea, maybe if the team had people within the organization out there doing media and talking about it more and explaining how it would work then maybe those fans might get it better.

It's too bad. We could be 2+ years into a true rebuild now with some hope for the future, but unfortunately it's going to be more losing seasons in the near future.

[An Old Friend]

Yea, they screwed up and should have admitted to themselves that they needed a rebuild. Suck it up that the fans aren't going to understand it and do it. Now they wasted two years of rebuilding and you're looking at 2023-2026, at the least, being rebuild years.

And I really think a lot of the fans would've been okay with it and understood if if they had just been honest.

Sure, it might've kept the casuals away, probably. But the larger part of the rank and file would've likely still supported them. And then all the junkies like us who get excited when they call up a set-up man from Memphis would've still come. I doubt they''d sell out, but I can easily see the legit attendance being 25-30,000 people in the park.

A lot of the unpleasantness with the fans could've been avoided if they were just honest. Look at the Blues.

I'm not so sure that Mozeliak was dishonest as much as he was just wrong.

[Clubmaker2]

101 talked a minute or two about the cardinals and "trust" around mid day. Not flattering to the cardinals.

[Carp4Cy]

This is the quote from Woo Hoo:

"To me, this deadline is much different from when the Cardinals sold in 2023," Woo said. "Yes, in 2023, the Cardinals also only traded guys on expiring deals, same as this year. But, what they targeted in 2023 was pitching depth, specifically in the upper minor league system and soon to be major league-ready talent. In 2023, the reason why the front office looked for that specifically in a return was because they wanted to return to contention soon. They wanted to compete in 2024. They thought maybe they could get away one more year of building a team, possibly good enough to contend for a Wild Card spot and maybe get in. They wanted to avoid a rebuild.

"This year, they have seemed to acknowledge that is not going to be possible. They went and they got a ton of High-A guys. Blaze Jordan is the only one in Double-A or above right now...That to me signals...that this is going to be a multi-year transition. The point of the 2025 year was to see how long this reset...would take. The Cardinals seemed resigned to the fact that this is going to be a multi-year project."

The trades are irrelavent to the timeline. They probably didn't get enough to even move the needle, much less to make us a competitor either next year or in 3-5 years. Woo should Stop reading so much into Mo actually having a master plan or even a well thought out strategy.

[renostl]

Yeah, Woo stated the obvious. But, to be a bit more fair to her, a lot of fans out there, including many who post in this forum, miss the obvious, too. Judging from the daily grind here, many seem to believe that this is a rebuilding year with the mind to contend next year. That may have been a stretch goal, a long-shot hope, but this kind of rebuild is ALWAYS multi-year. 2025 is the year to see what our stable of high-level prospects can do when given the chance. Some are earning the right to stay, others aren't. Presumably, those that aren't will get sent packing and the team will continue to build around those who earned it. That means a new round of prospects coming in to "audition" next year. If things go well and Bloom is the quality some say he is then 2027 might be a very good year. But temper your expectations for '26.

She's taking a couple of items and drawing a conclusion that may or may not exist.

2023 also had a need for a couple of closer to MLB players just to get through the rest of the season and
nobody was close enough in MiLB to provide that. Insert Rom and King.
The 2023 off season approach was in a different spot than the coming offseason. There is some
thought that this could be an active off season which would or could involve more impact to
the 2026 roster. Trade deadlines and off seasons can work together.

We'll have to see if they do.

[blueboys69]

I don't disagree with the idea this is going to be a longer rebuild, but how does the return suggest this?

To me, you could just as easily argue that the return says that depth in AAA and AA is better now than it was in 2023.

I think there were trades that were not made that would better signal what Woo is implying (e.g. Trading Noot, Donovan, and/or JoJo)

[ecleme22]

With all due respect, we traded only Helsley, Maton and Matz.

It's not like we were the 2021 Cubs trading Baez, Rizzo, Bryant, Schwarber and Pederson.

You can't look at the return for three relievers and say, "wow, looks like it's a long term rebuild!"

Exactly!!

Not sure why people are knocking Woo's reporting on this. She's been pretty spot on with most of her reporting the last few years. Besides, I'm not convinced a lot of fans know what a rebuild is, so it's probably good that she gets the information out there.

With all due respect, I wasn't agreeing with her assertion. Or at least the way the OP characterized it.