Baseball and St. Louis sport's dollars

[RichieRichSTL]

People sometimes forget two things when considering what kind of attendance we are capable of: First, we are a regional team. For many years, St. Louis was the team furthest west. Even after teams went out west, there are still many markets such as Nashville, Memphis, Indianapolis, Evansville, Louisville, etc that do not have major league teams and many other smaller cities in that region and in places like Arkansas, Alabama, etc that don't either. The Cardinals have always been a huge regional draw. St Louis and St. Charles County areas have significant population as well.

Additionally, the Cardinals have a relatively limited in terms of sports dollars. They arent competitive with a 'major league' basketball or football team in town. In short, they have a strong base to draw from compared to other lesser markets.

You see that in their attendance. Since 1998, in non-covid years, they only missed 3 million fans once and that was barely. What this shows is that BDW, if he has a POBO that does a good job running the team, will have no problem with fan interest. The so BDW III's is tone deaf when more or less says, we will punish fans if they dont keep showing up. Fans don't expect a winner every year, but they expect a well run franchise and a good product. Most of all we expect the franchise not to [nonsense] fans. You can draw fans in 2 ways--a winning team or a compelling narrative. When you have both, it is magic. Lately they have had neither and a POBO who does not sell well.

This year has been a disaster. We knew this was going to be a rough season, but we had hoped for more clarity. Instead they kept on tossing up the same stiffs in the rotation. Fedde was an utter PR disaster. Same with Arenado. The way both were handled inspired little confidence in the FO.

Fans would have accepted a rebuild in 2024, instead we a starting rotation eligible for AARP. Inevitably they fell short.
As a fan, I am disgusted by the way ownership is blaming fans for not mindlessly supporting the team after nearly 30 years of tremendous support. We are rabid, but we wont condone utter failure. The failure to make any top level changes after the 2023 debacle was a sign to the fans that they were not serious about fielding a competitive team.

[Hazelwood72]

People sometimes forget two things when considering what kind of attendance we are capable of: First, we are a regional team. For many years, St. Louis was the team furthest west. Even after teams went out west, there are still many markets such as Nashville, Memphis, Indianapolis, Evansville, Louisville, etc that do not have major league teams and many other smaller cities in that region and in places like Arkansas, Alabama, etc that don't either. The Cardinals have always been a huge regional draw. St Louis and St. Charles County areas have significant population as well.

Additionally, the Cardinals have a relatively limited in terms of sports dollars. They arent competitive with a 'major league' basketball or football team in town. In short, they have a strong base to draw from compared to other lesser markets.

You see that in their attendance. Since 1998, in non-covid years, they only missed 3 million fans once and that was barely. What this shows is that BDW, if he has a POBO that does a good job running the team, will have no problem with fan interest. The so BDW III's is tone deaf when more or less says, we will punish fans if they dont keep showing up. Fans don't expect a winner every year, but they expect a well run franchise and a good product. Most of all we expect the franchise not to [nonsense] fans. You can draw fans in 2 ways--a winning team or a compelling narrative. When you have both, it is magic. Lately they have had neither and a POBO who does not sell well.

This year has been a disaster. We knew this was going to be a rough season, but we had hoped for more clarity. Instead they kept on tossing up the same stiffs in the rotation. Fedde was an utter PR disaster. Same with Arenado. The way both were handled inspired little confidence in the FO.

Fans would have accepted a rebuild in 2024, instead we a starting rotation eligible for AARP. Inevitably they fell short.
As a fan, I am disgusted by the way ownership is blaming fans for not mindlessly supporting the team after nearly 30 years of tremendous support. We are rabid, but we wont condone utter failure. The failure to make any top level changes after the 2023 debacle was a sign to the fans that they were not serious about fielding a competitive team.

Excellent post, Richie! Totally agree.

And I really fear BDW III as owner. He gives off Stan Kroenke vibes.

[WLTFE]

I wonder who the front office listens to about the declining attendance...they let Mo-ran run this team far too long...perhaps they are surrounded by people who keep telling them how great it was years ago...whatever the reason, they don't seem bothered...just bad business as usual.

[RichieRichSTL]

People sometimes forget two things when considering what kind of attendance we are capable of: First, we are a regional team. For many years, St. Louis was the team furthest west. Even after teams went out west, there are still many markets such as Nashville, Memphis, Indianapolis, Evansville, Louisville, etc that do not have major league teams and many other smaller cities in that region and in places like Arkansas, Alabama, etc that don't either. The Cardinals have always been a huge regional draw. St Louis and St. Charles County areas have significant population as well.

Additionally, the Cardinals have a relatively limited in terms of sports dollars. They arent competitive with a 'major league' basketball or football team in town. In short, they have a strong base to draw from compared to other lesser markets.

You see that in their attendance. Since 1998, in non-covid years, they only missed 3 million fans once and that was barely. What this shows is that BDW, if he has a POBO that does a good job running the team, will have no problem with fan interest. The so BDW III's is tone deaf when more or less says, we will punish fans if they dont keep showing up. Fans don't expect a winner every year, but they expect a well run franchise and a good product. Most of all we expect the franchise not to [nonsense] fans. You can draw fans in 2 ways--a winning team or a compelling narrative. When you have both, it is magic. Lately they have had neither and a POBO who does not sell well.

This year has been a disaster. We knew this was going to be a rough season, but we had hoped for more clarity. Instead they kept on tossing up the same stiffs in the rotation. Fedde was an utter PR disaster. Same with Arenado. The way both were handled inspired little confidence in the FO.

Fans would have accepted a rebuild in 2024, instead we a starting rotation eligible for AARP. Inevitably they fell short.
As a fan, I am disgusted by the way ownership is blaming fans for not mindlessly supporting the team after nearly 30 years of tremendous support. We are rabid, but we wont condone utter failure. The failure to make any top level changes after the 2023 debacle was a sign to the fans that they were not serious about fielding a competitive team.

Excellent post, Richie! Totally agree.

And I really fear BDW III as owner. He gives off Stan Kroenke vibes.

While I dont rule anything out these days, lets face it, Kroenke was planning the move back to LA as soon as he's bought a minority share of the team,with the option to buy the rest if they ever sold it. There was literally no way it wasn't going to happen. To me his vibes are more ABIII vibes. If the Dewitt family isnt committed to the team, they should quietly start exploring selling it to an ownership group that is committed to keeping it here.

[60 year Cardinal fan]

People sometimes forget two things when considering what kind of attendance we are capable of: First, we are a regional team. For many years, St. Louis was the team furthest west. Even after teams went out west, there are still many markets such as Nashville, Memphis, Indianapolis, Evansville, Louisville, etc that do not have major league teams and many other smaller cities in that region and in places like Arkansas, Alabama, etc that don't either. The Cardinals have always been a huge regional draw. St Louis and St. Charles County areas have significant population as well.

Additionally, the Cardinals have a relatively limited in terms of sports dollars. They arent competitive with a 'major league' basketball or football team in town. In short, they have a strong base to draw from compared to other lesser markets.

You see that in their attendance. Since 1998, in non-covid years, they only missed 3 million fans once and that was barely. What this shows is that BDW, if he has a POBO that does a good job running the team, will have no problem with fan interest. The so BDW III's is tone deaf when more or less says, we will punish fans if they dont keep showing up. Fans don't expect a winner every year, but they expect a well run franchise and a good product. Most of all we expect the franchise not to [nonsense] fans. You can draw fans in 2 ways--a winning team or a compelling narrative. When you have both, it is magic. Lately they have had neither and a POBO who does not sell well.

This year has been a disaster. We knew this was going to be a rough season, but we had hoped for more clarity. Instead they kept on tossing up the same stiffs in the rotation. Fedde was an utter PR disaster. Same with Arenado. The way both were handled inspired little confidence in the FO.

Fans would have accepted a rebuild in 2024, instead we a starting rotation eligible for AARP. Inevitably they fell short.
As a fan, I am disgusted by the way ownership is blaming fans for not mindlessly supporting the team after nearly 30 years of tremendous support. We are rabid, but we wont condone utter failure. The failure to make any top level changes after the 2023 debacle was a sign to the fans that they were not serious about fielding a competitive team.

Excellent, well stated post.

[Hazelwood72]

People sometimes forget two things when considering what kind of attendance we are capable of: First, we are a regional team. For many years, St. Louis was the team furthest west. Even after teams went out west, there are still many markets such as Nashville, Memphis, Indianapolis, Evansville, Louisville, etc that do not have major league teams and many other smaller cities in that region and in places like Arkansas, Alabama, etc that don't either. The Cardinals have always been a huge regional draw. St Louis and St. Charles County areas have significant population as well.

Additionally, the Cardinals have a relatively limited in terms of sports dollars. They arent competitive with a 'major league' basketball or football team in town. In short, they have a strong base to draw from compared to other lesser markets.

You see that in their attendance. Since 1998, in non-covid years, they only missed 3 million fans once and that was barely. What this shows is that BDW, if he has a POBO that does a good job running the team, will have no problem with fan interest. The so BDW III's is tone deaf when more or less says, we will punish fans if they dont keep showing up. Fans don't expect a winner every year, but they expect a well run franchise and a good product. Most of all we expect the franchise not to [nonsense] fans. You can draw fans in 2 ways--a winning team or a compelling narrative. When you have both, it is magic. Lately they have had neither and a POBO who does not sell well.

This year has been a disaster. We knew this was going to be a rough season, but we had hoped for more clarity. Instead they kept on tossing up the same stiffs in the rotation. Fedde was an utter PR disaster. Same with Arenado. The way both were handled inspired little confidence in the FO.

Fans would have accepted a rebuild in 2024, instead we a starting rotation eligible for AARP. Inevitably they fell short.
As a fan, I am disgusted by the way ownership is blaming fans for not mindlessly supporting the team after nearly 30 years of tremendous support. We are rabid, but we wont condone utter failure. The failure to make any top level changes after the 2023 debacle was a sign to the fans that they were not serious about fielding a competitive team.

Excellent post, Richie! Totally agree.

And I really fear BDW III as owner. He gives off Stan Kroenke vibes.

While I dont rule anything out these days, lets face it, Kroenke was planning the move back to LA as soon as he's bought a minority share of the team,with the option to buy the rest if they ever sold it. There was literally no way it wasn't going to happen. To me his vibes are more ABIII vibes. If the Dewitt family isnt committed to the team, they should quietly start exploring selling it to an ownership group that is committed to keeping it here.

Rich,
You make some good points here, but the thing I keep coming back to is that Kroenke made his fortune in real estate (with a big kickstart from his wife’s WalMart billion) and BDW III also seems to be a real estate guy. Also, neither StanK nor BDW III are St. Louisans. AAB III was a beer baron who grew up in STL and running an enormous beer brewer was his passion.

So while AAB III couldn’t care less about the Cards and baseball, at least he had enough allegiance to STL that he brokered a sale to local interests.

The thing that worries me about BDW III is that his wife owns Notifi Records, an urban music label. Would her interests be served better by a move to Nashville? Hmm…. Of course, they’d have to build a new ballpark in Music City, and it looks like Nashville has already committed to a huge stadium expenditure for the football Tennessee Titans and they seem to have put all their eggs into that basket.

We shall see. “Tune in next week to ‘ALL MY CARDINALS’, brought to you by Dove Soap, the bar with 1/4 cleansing cream!”

[RichieRichSTL]

People sometimes forget two things when considering what kind of attendance we are capable of: First, we are a regional team. For many years, St. Louis was the team furthest west. Even after teams went out west, there are still many markets such as Nashville, Memphis, Indianapolis, Evansville, Louisville, etc that do not have major league teams and many other smaller cities in that region and in places like Arkansas, Alabama, etc that don't either. The Cardinals have always been a huge regional draw. St Louis and St. Charles County areas have significant population as well.

Additionally, the Cardinals have a relatively limited in terms of sports dollars. They arent competitive with a 'major league' basketball or football team in town. In short, they have a strong base to draw from compared to other lesser markets.

You see that in their attendance. Since 1998, in non-covid years, they only missed 3 million fans once and that was barely. What this shows is that BDW, if he has a POBO that does a good job running the team, will have no problem with fan interest. The so BDW III's is tone deaf when more or less says, we will punish fans if they dont keep showing up. Fans don't expect a winner every year, but they expect a well run franchise and a good product. Most of all we expect the franchise not to [nonsense] fans. You can draw fans in 2 ways--a winning team or a compelling narrative. When you have both, it is magic. Lately they have had neither and a POBO who does not sell well.

This year has been a disaster. We knew this was going to be a rough season, but we had hoped for more clarity. Instead they kept on tossing up the same stiffs in the rotation. Fedde was an utter PR disaster. Same with Arenado. The way both were handled inspired little confidence in the FO.

Fans would have accepted a rebuild in 2024, instead we a starting rotation eligible for AARP. Inevitably they fell short.
As a fan, I am disgusted by the way ownership is blaming fans for not mindlessly supporting the team after nearly 30 years of tremendous support. We are rabid, but we wont condone utter failure. The failure to make any top level changes after the 2023 debacle was a sign to the fans that they were not serious about fielding a competitive team.

Excellent post, Richie! Totally agree.

And I really fear BDW III as owner. He gives off Stan Kroenke vibes.

While I dont rule anything out these days, lets face it, Kroenke was planning the move back to LA as soon as he's bought a minority share of the team,with the option to buy the rest if they ever sold it. There was literally no way it wasn't going to happen. To me his vibes are more ABIII vibes. If the Dewitt family isnt committed to the team, they should quietly start exploring selling it to an ownership group that is committed to keeping it here.

Rich,
You make some good points here, but the thing I keep coming back to is that Kroenke made his fortune in real estate (with a big kickstart from his wife’s WalMart billion) and BDW III also seems to be a real estate guy. Also, neither StanK nor BDW III are St. Louisans. AAB III was a beer baron who grew up in STL and running an enormous beer brewer was his passion.

So while AAB III couldn’t care less about the Cards and baseball, at least he had enough allegiance to STL that he brokered a sale to local interests.

The thing that worries me about BDW III is that his wife owns Notifi Records, an urban music label. Would her interests be served better by a move to Nashville? Hmm…. Of course, they’d have to build a new ballpark in Music City, and it looks like Nashville has already committed to a huge stadium expenditure for the football Tennessee Titans and they seem to have put all their eggs into that basket.

We shall see. “Tune in next week to ‘ALL MY CARDINALS’, brought to you by Dove Soap, the bar with 1/4 cleansing cream!”

I hear what you are saying. There is a couple huge differences, however. It seems to be that the NFL never particular saw St. Louis as a football town. The Football Cardinals were a transplanted Chicago team and when Bidwell wasn't able to secure a new stadium, ai think their view of St. Louis dimmed. Note they weren't seriously considered for an expansion franchise. I believe they only tolerated the LA Rams move to St. Louis after the Raiders fiasco.

The St. Louis Cardinals are considered a cornerstone franchise for MLB. They have had a long successful run in St. Louis. They have a great built-in fan base that comes in droves when they take winning seriously.

Stan K was able to leverage a dim view of St. Louis as a city and football town to a league that was felt that the team belonged in Los Angeles $$. MLB, would put up a fight I think. Besides, I believe there are enough local interests that would fight to keep them in town. Does that mean moving them could not be done? Obviously not. But let's face it, the original deal bringing the Rams into town almost guaranteed they wouldn't stay here. It made a move back easier and the league was waiting for it. BDW3 doesn't have the glide path like that still anything is possible i suppose.

[Bomber1]

People sometimes forget two things when considering what kind of attendance we are capable of: First, we are a regional team. For many years, St. Louis was the team furthest west. Even after teams went out west, there are still many markets such as Nashville, Memphis, Indianapolis, Evansville, Louisville, etc that do not have major league teams and many other smaller cities in that region and in places like Arkansas, Alabama, etc that don't either. The Cardinals have always been a huge regional draw. St Louis and St. Charles County areas have significant population as well.

Additionally, the Cardinals have a relatively limited in terms of sports dollars. They arent competitive with a 'major league' basketball or football team in town. In short, they have a strong base to draw from compared to other lesser markets.

You see that in their attendance. Since 1998, in non-covid years, they only missed 3 million fans once and that was barely. What this shows is that BDW, if he has a POBO that does a good job running the team, will have no problem with fan interest. The so BDW III's is tone deaf when more or less says, we will punish fans if they dont keep showing up. Fans don't expect a winner every year, but they expect a well run franchise and a good product. Most of all we expect the franchise not to [nonsense] fans. You can draw fans in 2 ways--a winning team or a compelling narrative. When you have both, it is magic. Lately they have had neither and a POBO who does not sell well.

This year has been a disaster. We knew this was going to be a rough season, but we had hoped for more clarity. Instead they kept on tossing up the same stiffs in the rotation. Fedde was an utter PR disaster. Same with Arenado. The way both were handled inspired little confidence in the FO.

Fans would have accepted a rebuild in 2024, instead we a starting rotation eligible for AARP. Inevitably they fell short.
As a fan, I am disgusted by the way ownership is blaming fans for not mindlessly supporting the team after nearly 30 years of tremendous support. We are rabid, but we wont condone utter failure. The failure to make any top level changes after the 2023 debacle was a sign to the fans that they were not serious about fielding a competitive team.

One of the dumbest and laziest things they have done is not having a year-end press conference after the 2023 last-place debacle.

Failing to face the music angered many fans.

[Hazelwood72]

People sometimes forget two things when considering what kind of attendance we are capable of: First, we are a regional team. For many years, St. Louis was the team furthest west. Even after teams went out west, there are still many markets such as Nashville, Memphis, Indianapolis, Evansville, Louisville, etc that do not have major league teams and many other smaller cities in that region and in places like Arkansas, Alabama, etc that don't either. The Cardinals have always been a huge regional draw. St Louis and St. Charles County areas have significant population as well.

Additionally, the Cardinals have a relatively limited in terms of sports dollars. They arent competitive with a 'major league' basketball or football team in town. In short, they have a strong base to draw from compared to other lesser markets.

You see that in their attendance. Since 1998, in non-covid years, they only missed 3 million fans once and that was barely. What this shows is that BDW, if he has a POBO that does a good job running the team, will have no problem with fan interest. The so BDW III's is tone deaf when more or less says, we will punish fans if they dont keep showing up. Fans don't expect a winner every year, but they expect a well run franchise and a good product. Most of all we expect the franchise not to [nonsense] fans. You can draw fans in 2 ways--a winning team or a compelling narrative. When you have both, it is magic. Lately they have had neither and a POBO who does not sell well.

This year has been a disaster. We knew this was going to be a rough season, but we had hoped for more clarity. Instead they kept on tossing up the same stiffs in the rotation. Fedde was an utter PR disaster. Same with Arenado. The way both were handled inspired little confidence in the FO.

Fans would have accepted a rebuild in 2024, instead we a starting rotation eligible for AARP. Inevitably they fell short.
As a fan, I am disgusted by the way ownership is blaming fans for not mindlessly supporting the team after nearly 30 years of tremendous support. We are rabid, but we wont condone utter failure. The failure to make any top level changes after the 2023 debacle was a sign to the fans that they were not serious about fielding a competitive team.

Excellent post, Richie! Totally agree.

And I really fear BDW III as owner. He gives off Stan Kroenke vibes.

While I dont rule anything out these days, lets face it, Kroenke was planning the move back to LA as soon as he's bought a minority share of the team,with the option to buy the rest if they ever sold it. There was literally no way it wasn't going to happen. To me his vibes are more ABIII vibes. If the Dewitt family isnt committed to the team, they should quietly start exploring selling it to an ownership group that is committed to keeping it here.

Rich,
You make some good points here, but the thing I keep coming back to is that Kroenke made his fortune in real estate (with a big kickstart from his wife’s WalMart billion) and BDW III also seems to be a real estate guy. Also, neither StanK nor BDW III are St. Louisans. AAB III was a beer baron who grew up in STL and running an enormous beer brewer was his passion.

So while AAB III couldn’t care less about the Cards and baseball, at least he had enough allegiance to STL that he brokered a sale to local interests.

The thing that worries me about BDW III is that his wife owns Notifi Records, an urban music label. Would her interests be served better by a move to Nashville? Hmm…. Of course, they’d have to build a new ballpark in Music City, and it looks like Nashville has already committed to a huge stadium expenditure for the football Tennessee Titans and they seem to have put all their eggs into that basket.

We shall see. “Tune in next week to ‘ALL MY CARDINALS’, brought to you by Dove Soap, the bar with 1/4 cleansing cream!”

I hear what you are saying. There is a couple huge differences, however. It seems to be that the NFL never particular saw St. Louis as a football town. The Football Cardinals were a transplanted Chicago team and when Bidwell wasn't able to secure a new stadium, ai think their view of St. Louis dimmed. Note they weren't seriously considered for an expansion franchise. I believe they only tolerated the LA Rams move to St. Louis after the Raiders fiasco.

The St. Louis Cardinals are considered a cornerstone franchise for MLB. They have had a long successful run in St. Louis. They have a great built-in fan base that comes in droves when they take winning seriously.

Stan K was able to leverage a dim view of St. Louis as a city and football town to a league that was felt that the team belonged in Los Angeles $$. MLB, would put up a fight I think. Besides, I believe there are enough local interests that would fight to keep them in town. Does that mean moving them could not be done? Obviously not. But let's face it, the original deal bringing the Rams into town almost guaranteed they wouldn't stay here. It made a move back easier and the league was waiting for it. BDW3 doesn't have the glide path like that still anything is possible i suppose.

Pretty good take, Richie, and I hope you’re right!

Unlike the Rams move back to LA, there really are no metro areas much larger than STL who don’t currently have MLB teams. Keep in mind that metro STL is still about 2.7-2.8 million (albeit not growing). So there is less of a driver to move from STL. Granted, Charlotte and Nashville are “up & coming” cities, but they’re still not big like LA, CHI, etc.

Portland, Oregon is often touted as a MLB city, but once you get out of metro Portland, the population thins radically. There’s lots of southern Washington and the rest of Oregon which are very sparsely populated, while in contrast, the areas around STL, especially on the Illinois side, have a lot of people compared to Oregon.

[rockondlouie]

People sometimes forget two things when considering what kind of attendance we are capable of: First, we are a regional team. For many years, St. Louis was the team furthest west. Even after teams went out west, there are still many markets such as Nashville, Memphis, Indianapolis, Evansville, Louisville, etc that do not have major league teams and many other smaller cities in that region and in places like Arkansas, Alabama, etc that don't either. The Cardinals have always been a huge regional draw. St Louis and St. Charles County areas have significant population as well.

Additionally, the Cardinals have a relatively limited in terms of sports dollars. They arent competitive with a 'major league' basketball or football team in town. In short, they have a strong base to draw from compared to other lesser markets.

You see that in their attendance. Since 1998, in non-covid years, they only missed 3 million fans once and that was barely. What this shows is that BDW, if he has a POBO that does a good job running the team, will have no problem with fan interest. The so BDW III's is tone deaf when more or less says, we will punish fans if they dont keep showing up. Fans don't expect a winner every year, but they expect a well run franchise and a good product. Most of all we expect the franchise not to [nonsense] fans. You can draw fans in 2 ways--a winning team or a compelling narrative. When you have both, it is magic. Lately they have had neither and a POBO who does not sell well.

This year has been a disaster. We knew this was going to be a rough season, but we had hoped for more clarity. Instead they kept on tossing up the same stiffs in the rotation. Fedde was an utter PR disaster. Same with Arenado. The way both were handled inspired little confidence in the FO.

Fans would have accepted a rebuild in 2024, instead we a starting rotation eligible for AARP. Inevitably they fell short.
As a fan, I am disgusted by the way ownership is blaming fans for not mindlessly supporting the team after nearly 30 years of tremendous support. We are rabid, but we wont condone utter failure. The failure to make any top level changes after the 2023 debacle was a sign to the fans that they were not serious about fielding a competitive team.

Excellent post, Richie! Totally agree.

And I really fear BDW III as owner. He gives off Stan Kroenke vibes.

Even worse hawk'

Fredo gives off an A. Busch III vibe!

[Goldfan]

People sometimes forget two things when considering what kind of attendance we are capable of: First, we are a regional team. For many years, St. Louis was the team furthest west. Even after teams went out west, there are still many markets such as Nashville, Memphis, Indianapolis, Evansville, Louisville, etc that do not have major league teams and many other smaller cities in that region and in places like Arkansas, Alabama, etc that don't either. The Cardinals have always been a huge regional draw. St Louis and St. Charles County areas have significant population as well.

Additionally, the Cardinals have a relatively limited in terms of sports dollars. They arent competitive with a 'major league' basketball or football team in town. In short, they have a strong base to draw from compared to other lesser markets.

You see that in their attendance. Since 1998, in non-covid years, they only missed 3 million fans once and that was barely. What this shows is that BDW, if he has a POBO that does a good job running the team, will have no problem with fan interest. The so BDW III's is tone deaf when more or less says, we will punish fans if they dont keep showing up. Fans don't expect a winner every year, but they expect a well run franchise and a good product. Most of all we expect the franchise not to [nonsense] fans. You can draw fans in 2 ways--a winning team or a compelling narrative. When you have both, it is magic. Lately they have had neither and a POBO who does not sell well.

This year has been a disaster. We knew this was going to be a rough season, but we had hoped for more clarity. Instead they kept on tossing up the same stiffs in the rotation. Fedde was an utter PR disaster. Same with Arenado. The way both were handled inspired little confidence in the FO.

Fans would have accepted a rebuild in 2024, instead we a starting rotation eligible for AARP. Inevitably they fell short.
As a fan, I am disgusted by the way ownership is blaming fans for not mindlessly supporting the team after nearly 30 years of tremendous support. We are rabid, but we wont condone utter failure. The failure to make any top level changes after the 2023 debacle was a sign to the fans that they were not serious about fielding a competitive team.

Excellent post, Richie! Totally agree.

And I really fear BDW III as owner. He gives off Stan Kroenke vibes.

Even worse hawk'

Fredo gives off an A. Busch III vibe!

Exactly Rock, didn’t that Azzhat say if attendance dropped so does payroll…..while smirking….

[rockondlouie]

People sometimes forget two things when considering what kind of attendance we are capable of: First, we are a regional team. For many years, St. Louis was the team furthest west. Even after teams went out west, there are still many markets such as Nashville, Memphis, Indianapolis, Evansville, Louisville, etc that do not have major league teams and many other smaller cities in that region and in places like Arkansas, Alabama, etc that don't either. The Cardinals have always been a huge regional draw. St Louis and St. Charles County areas have significant population as well.

Additionally, the Cardinals have a relatively limited in terms of sports dollars. They arent competitive with a 'major league' basketball or football team in town. In short, they have a strong base to draw from compared to other lesser markets.

You see that in their attendance. Since 1998, in non-covid years, they only missed 3 million fans once and that was barely. What this shows is that BDW, if he has a POBO that does a good job running the team, will have no problem with fan interest. The so BDW III's is tone deaf when more or less says, we will punish fans if they dont keep showing up. Fans don't expect a winner every year, but they expect a well run franchise and a good product. Most of all we expect the franchise not to [nonsense] fans. You can draw fans in 2 ways--a winning team or a compelling narrative. When you have both, it is magic. Lately they have had neither and a POBO who does not sell well.

This year has been a disaster. We knew this was going to be a rough season, but we had hoped for more clarity. Instead they kept on tossing up the same stiffs in the rotation. Fedde was an utter PR disaster. Same with Arenado. The way both were handled inspired little confidence in the FO.

Fans would have accepted a rebuild in 2024, instead we a starting rotation eligible for AARP. Inevitably they fell short.
As a fan, I am disgusted by the way ownership is blaming fans for not mindlessly supporting the team after nearly 30 years of tremendous support. We are rabid, but we wont condone utter failure. The failure to make any top level changes after the 2023 debacle was a sign to the fans that they were not serious about fielding a competitive team.

Excellent post, Richie! Totally agree.

And I really fear BDW III as owner. He gives off Stan Kroenke vibes.

Even worse hawk'

Fredo gives off an A. Busch III vibe!

Exactly Rock, didn’t that Azzhat say if attendance dropped so does payroll…..while smirking….

Sure did

Fredo is an idiot, let's hope BDWJr sells before he leaves the team to that dip shildt.

[Absolut]

Remember when Shannon mentioned a sale rumor. Hah that went over well. Miss the “big fella”

[scoutyjones2]

People sometimes forget two things when considering what kind of attendance we are capable of: First, we are a regional team. For many years, St. Louis was the team furthest west. Even after teams went out west, there are still many markets such as Nashville, Memphis, Indianapolis, Evansville, Louisville, etc that do not have major league teams and many other smaller cities in that region and in places like Arkansas, Alabama, etc that don't either. The Cardinals have always been a huge regional draw. St Louis and St. Charles County areas have significant population as well.

Additionally, the Cardinals have a relatively limited in terms of sports dollars. They arent competitive with a 'major league' basketball or football team in town. In short, they have a strong base to draw from compared to other lesser markets.

You see that in their attendance. Since 1998, in non-covid years, they only missed 3 million fans once and that was barely. What this shows is that BDW, if he has a POBO that does a good job running the team, will have no problem with fan interest. The so BDW III's is tone deaf when more or less says, we will punish fans if they dont keep showing up. Fans don't expect a winner every year, but they expect a well run franchise and a good product. Most of all we expect the franchise not to [nonsense] fans. You can draw fans in 2 ways--a winning team or a compelling narrative. When you have both, it is magic. Lately they have had neither and a POBO who does not sell well.

This year has been a disaster. We knew this was going to be a rough season, but we had hoped for more clarity. Instead they kept on tossing up the same stiffs in the rotation. Fedde was an utter PR disaster. Same with Arenado. The way both were handled inspired little confidence in the FO.

Fans would have accepted a rebuild in 2024, instead we a starting rotation eligible for AARP. Inevitably they fell short.
As a fan, I am disgusted by the way ownership is blaming fans for not mindlessly supporting the team after nearly 30 years of tremendous support. We are rabid, but we wont condone utter failure. The failure to make any top level changes after the 2023 debacle was a sign to the fans that they were not serious about fielding a competitive team.

When did the team "blaming fans for not mindlessly supporting the team"

[RichieRichSTL]

People sometimes forget two things when considering what kind of attendance we are capable of: First, we are a regional team. For many years, St. Louis was the team furthest west. Even after teams went out west, there are still many markets such as Nashville, Memphis, Indianapolis, Evansville, Louisville, etc that do not have major league teams and many other smaller cities in that region and in places like Arkansas, Alabama, etc that don't either. The Cardinals have always been a huge regional draw. St Louis and St. Charles County areas have significant population as well.

Additionally, the Cardinals have a relatively limited in terms of sports dollars. They arent competitive with a 'major league' basketball or football team in town. In short, they have a strong base to draw from compared to other lesser markets.

You see that in their attendance. Since 1998, in non-covid years, they only missed 3 million fans once and that was barely. What this shows is that BDW, if he has a POBO that does a good job running the team, will have no problem with fan interest. The so BDW III's is tone deaf when more or less says, we will punish fans if they dont keep showing up. Fans don't expect a winner every year, but they expect a well run franchise and a good product. Most of all we expect the franchise not to [nonsense] fans. You can draw fans in 2 ways--a winning team or a compelling narrative. When you have both, it is magic. Lately they have had neither and a POBO who does not sell well.

This year has been a disaster. We knew this was going to be a rough season, but we had hoped for more clarity. Instead they kept on tossing up the same stiffs in the rotation. Fedde was an utter PR disaster. Same with Arenado. The way both were handled inspired little confidence in the FO.

Fans would have accepted a rebuild in 2024, instead we a starting rotation eligible for AARP. Inevitably they fell short.
As a fan, I am disgusted by the way ownership is blaming fans for not mindlessly supporting the team after nearly 30 years of tremendous support. We are rabid, but we wont condone utter failure. The failure to make any top level changes after the 2023 debacle was a sign to the fans that they were not serious about fielding a competitive team.

Excellent post, Richie! Totally agree.

And I really fear BDW III as owner. He gives off Stan Kroenke vibes.

Even worse hawk'

Fredo gives off an A. Busch III vibe!

Exactly Rock, didn’t that Azzhat say if attendance dropped so does payroll…..while smirking….

Imagine Apple saying something like that: If sales drop due to dissatisfaction with our cornerstone product(s), we put out inferior products.

[RunSup]

One of the dumbest and laziest things they have done is not having a year-end press conference after the 2023 last-place debacle.

Failing to face the music angered many fans.

Not being up front and honest about a needed rebuild is what ticks this fan off.

Telling fans that they couldn't take a rebuild and that team always needed to compete every year was utter bull[shirt] and disrespected the fan base.

Instead they half-[ashed] the needed rebuild moves. Further delaying competitiveness.

They've lacked the ability to just be honest and message clearly and respectfully to the fans. Thats not just on Mo but ownership. BDW III is the worst communicator of the bunch. You really haven't heard much from him lately.

But I said I wouldn't look backward anymore. Hiring Bloom to refocus on the draft and development system was positive change. We'll see how what he does and how he communicates vision and direction.