CCard wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 07:50 am
These are future cornerstone players. They excelled at AAA and they will excel in St Louis. Winn is already one of the better SS in baseball, right now. Walker has too much talent to trade. He will only get better. Trade away Noot, he is what he is. I think we've seen his top. If they're going to trade Donny it has to be for something established. No lottery tickets. Value for value. Actually, Winn, Walker and Scott are the future. Trade them at your own peril.
If Walker and Scott are the future, then this team has a ton of problems, especially when you throw the Nootster in the mix. Some of you guys need to put Moe’s kool-aid down and open your eyes. He’s lied to you for years. And you want to believe so badly.
Cards fans have Been abused for so long…..that most don’t know what a good young player is supposed to look like….they’ve bought in to this narrative that it takes 5 yrs in ML to hopefully see some sort of improvement…..and it never comes…
This Noot scam is an alltimer
rockondlouie wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 08:52 am
I don't see either being "cornerstone" players.
Walker is showing signs of life (Last 9 GP: .303 .343 .455 .797) and is still young enough to get back on track but he's regressed terribly from his strong rookie season:
2024/2025
.214 .267 .340 .608
Winn's offense is nothing special either and trending downward, since June 1st:
.258 .291 .337 .628
Winn is an asset for his glove.
If he's your sixth-seventh best player, then he's fine.
Walker's defense has slipped (again) to -7 DRS so he's a liability in RF and is not the type of player you want to build around.
I'd trade ether in the right deal but I want Bloom making that call this offseason.
JMO
Both are just getting established. Both were very highly rated in the minors. Both have high ceilings. Try and replace that with lottery ticket cast offs from other teams. It would be a mistake to sell either short. Walker has the size and power to be a Dave Winfield type of player. You can't teach size. As for Winn, he's one of the best SS defensively right now and he hasn't hit his stride yet. Both will surely improve once that get established good. As for Scott, well, you can't teach speed either. He may not be able to hit major league pitching consistently. No one knows, but he has all the tools to be a superstar. These are the types of players you trade for not trade.
-Winn/23 now has 1168 PA's in MLB (.256 .307 .384 .691) and could possibly improve his offensive production as he matures and gets stronger.
If he's your sixth-seventh best player, then you've got an asset for his glove on a true WS contender.
But NOT a cornerstone player.
-Walker/23 has nothing in common hitting and fielding wise to comp him to the Hall of Famer D. Winfield who was such a great athlete he was drafted in three sports!
He's struggled now for a year and half (.214 .267 .340 .608).
He may never be what some thought he'd be.
Not a cornerstone player.
Mo has oversold so many of his draft picks, these two are his latest.
I don't see any "high ceilings for either", this may be who they are.
And VSII a "superstar", seriously?
If they remain Cardinals for some time, then I hope you're right and they all make multiple All-star teams.
I just don't see any of the three ever being an all star caliber player.
These are just my personal opinions CC and I respect yours as well.
Yeah, maybe. These players were very highly rated at AAA and are trying to transition to the major league game. They all have the tools to be great. You can't teach size and speed so Scott and Walker have the unteachable talents but they haven't had a smooth transition yet. But for a lot of great players it took a few years to get used to the major league pitching and the longer season. Scott has the talent of a Vince Coleman but not the results yet that he had in the minor leagues. I think he should be trying to hit more line drives and get on base. Then his speed could be a real game changer. Walker, I readily admit is no Dave Winfield, but he has the size and could develop the power yet. Obviosly he's still struggling but he's still young and could be a star or a bust. He's too highly rated to give up on at this time. Winn, well, how many SS in baseball would you trade him for right now?
The thing is CC there are MANY "highly rated AAA" players on EVERY roster, EVERY year who never reach that level in MLB.
Those "tools, size and speed" you speak of may have been dominate against weaker competition in the minor leagues, not so much when you reach The Show.
I'm a fan of VSII also, nut he has to learn to use his speed (re: BUNTING and hitting down on the ball like Ozzie did) or he'll never get there.
A .285 OB% won't allow him to use that great speed (and I think he's the best pure base stealer - 26 out of 28 - right now in MLB).
All are young and could see improvement under C. Bloom and Assoc.!
They were highly touted by National rankings from baseball sources. Every time there was a trade discussion, Walker and Winn especially were being pursued.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 08:52 am
I don't see either being "cornerstone" players.
Walker is showing signs of life (Last 9 GP: .303 .343 .455 .797) and is still young enough to get back on track but he's regressed terribly from his strong rookie season:
2024/2025
.214 .267 .340 .608
Winn's offense is nothing special either and trending downward, since June 1st:
.258 .291 .337 .628
Winn is an asset for his glove.
If he's your sixth-seventh best player, then he's fine.
Walker's defense has slipped (again) to -7 DRS so he's a liability in RF and is not the type of player you want to build around.
I'd trade ether in the right deal but I want Bloom making that call this offseason.
JMO
Both are just getting established. Both were very highly rated in the minors. Both have high ceilings. Try and replace that with lottery ticket cast offs from other teams. It would be a mistake to sell either short. Walker has the size and power to be a Dave Winfield type of player. You can't teach size. As for Winn, he's one of the best SS defensively right now and he hasn't hit his stride yet. Both will surely improve once that get established good. As for Scott, well, you can't teach speed either. He may not be able to hit major league pitching consistently. No one knows, but he has all the tools to be a superstar. These are the types of players you trade for not trade.
-Winn/23 now has 1168 PA's in MLB (.256 .307 .384 .691) and could possibly improve his offensive production as he matures and gets stronger.
If he's your sixth-seventh best player, then you've got an asset for his glove on a true WS contender.
But NOT a cornerstone player.
-Walker/23 has nothing in common hitting and fielding wise to comp him to the Hall of Famer D. Winfield who was such a great athlete he was drafted in three sports!
He's struggled now for a year and half (.214 .267 .340 .608).
He may never be what some thought he'd be.
Not a cornerstone player.
Mo has oversold so many of his draft picks, these two are his latest.
I don't see any "high ceilings for either", this may be who they are.
And VSII a "superstar", seriously?
If they remain Cardinals for some time, then I hope you're right and they all make multiple All-star teams.
I just don't see any of the three ever being an all star caliber player.
These are just my personal opinions CC and I respect yours as well.
Yeah, maybe. These players were very highly rated at AAA and are trying to transition to the major league game. They all have the tools to be great. You can't teach size and speed so Scott and Walker have the unteachable talents but they haven't had a smooth transition yet. But for a lot of great players it took a few years to get used to the major league pitching and the longer season. Scott has the talent of a Vince Coleman but not the results yet that he had in the minor leagues. I think he should be trying to hit more line drives and get on base. Then his speed could be a real game changer. Walker, I readily admit is no Dave Winfield, but he has the size and could develop the power yet. Obviosly he's still struggling but he's still young and could be a star or a bust. He's too highly rated to give up on at this time. Winn, well, how many SS in baseball would you trade him for right now?
The thing is CC there are MANY "highly rated AAA" players on EVERY roster, EVERY year who never reach that level in MLB.
Those "tools, size and speed" you speak of may have been dominate against weaker competition in the minor leagues, not so much when you reach The Show.
I'm a fan of VSII also, nut he has to learn to use his speed (re: BUNTING and hitting down on the ball like Ozzie did) or he'll never get there.
A .285 OB% won't allow him to use that great speed (and I think he's the best pure base stealer - 26 out of 28 - right now in MLB).
All are young and could see improvement under C. Bloom and Assoc.!
They were highly touted by National rankings from baseball sources. Every time there was a trade discussion, Walker and Winn especially were being pursued.
Yep
Just like the hundreds of other highly touted by National rankings who don't live up to the hype.
MLB is the hardest sport by far, making the jump leads to failure for most (The Peter Principle).
