The most frustrating thing about this organization

[mattmitchl44]

Is that I don't think they know what their priorities are.

Is it to ruthlessly do whatever it takes to eventually win another WS title including embracing a deep multiyear rebuild?

Is it to just consistently turn a profit no matter the on field success?

Is it to appease their (older) fanbase by always having a few "name" players, even if that only leads to consistent mediocrity on the field?

Is it something else?

[morley1]

incompetence.
but stable profit margin a close second.

[Bully4you]

Is that I don't think they know what their priorities are.

Is it to ruthlessly do whatever it takes to eventually win another WS title including embracing a deep multiyear rebuild?

Is it to just consistently turn a profit no matter the on field success?

Is it to appease their (older) fanbase by always having a few "name" players, even if that only leads to consistent mediocrity on the field?

Is it something else?

Yes, this reset/rebuild is a disaster.
Mainly it's a disaster because we haven't progressed from last season.
When I say that, I mean the young "talent" hasn't moved the needle.
So, we are back to square one in 2026.
Unless something changes the remainder of the year, I see no one at the MLB level to build around.
Let's hope JJ shines.
That will go a long way.
But let's face it, we need a few more.
In my opinion, we'd be just as well off had we sold some of these players last year.
Going 80-82 isn't any different that 70-92.
Either way, no playoffs.

[nighthawk]

One might compare them to the slog management orchestrated in the 1970s. Back then, it was a talent eval issue and some issues related to talent development, but they were also hung up on embracing the realities of free agency. The latter has gone away, but the enormous cost of FA weighs heavily as it does on every mid-market team. What are the Brewers doing that we can't model?

[Ron Gant's Bicep]

Is that I don't think they know what their priorities are.

Is it to ruthlessly do whatever it takes to eventually win another WS title including embracing a deep multiyear rebuild?

Is it to just consistently turn a profit no matter the on field success?

Is it to appease their (older) fanbase by always having a few "name" players, even if that only leads to consistent mediocrity on the field?

Is it something else?

Yes, this reset/rebuild is a disaster.
Mainly it's a disaster because we haven't progressed from last season.
When I say that, I mean the young "talent" hasn't moved the needle.
So, we are back to square one in 2026.
Unless something changes the remainder of the year, I see no one at the MLB level to build around.
Let's hope JJ shines.
That will go a long way.
But let's face it, we need a few more.
In my opinion, we'd be just as well off had we sold some of these players last year.
Going 80-82 isn't any different that 70-92.
Either way, no playoffs.

Disagree. The whole point of the reset/rebuild it to finally figure out what we’ve got in the young guys.

So far, we know Walker and Gorman are both too inconsistent and injury-plagued to be relied on as core pieces for the time being. Same with Lars, but we kind of already knew that.

We found out that Liberatore can be a starter.

We found out that Pallante should not be a starter beyond this year.

We found out that Victor can be a difference maker on the basepaths but has a long way to go with the bat.

We found out that Herrera should be the DH and not see the field.

We found out the Pages is a backup catcher at best.

We confirmed Burly is a starting caliber bat who remains incredibly awkward in the field.

Winn remains an unanswered question but at least we know he’s an MLB caliber shortstop. If he can take the next step offensively he’s a star. Lots of players struggle in year 2 so I’m still bullish on this front

Now there’s still 2+ months left of season and plenty of time to get Walker more run, McGreevy more starts, and hopefully get a guy like Nathan Church some looks to figure out what’s there.

The season still could be a failure if they decide to learn nothing from this year and run it all back the same next year. But I don’t see that happening

[mattmitchl44]

FWIW - with regards to deep rebuild examples:

Houston was a sub-.500 team for six consecutive years before they got it right in 2015 and on the road to sustained success

Atlanta was a sub-.500 team for four consecutive years before they got it right in 2018

Philadelphia was a.500 or sub-.500 team for seven consecutive years before 2021

Baltimore was a sub-.500 team for five consecutive years before 2022

Deep rebuilds take time.

[Mort Gage]

They tied their hands with NTCs for thirtysomething players who aren't superstars.

1) Was Mikolas such a hot commodity that he needed to be extended, let alone given a NTC?

2) Contreras admired the Cardinal organization from afar. Was it necessary to give him a NTC? I don't know if any other team would have even offered him five years, knowing he may need to move off catcher.

3) Gray wanted to play somewhere near his Nashville home which limited his potential suitors. Was a NTC necessary? In this case I'll concede a maybe, though I doubt it.

The Cardinals need to be much more judicious with NTCs going forward, if they give them at all. If not they paint themselves in a corner when it's time for the next reset/rebuild.

[2ninr]

Is that I don't think they know what their priorities are.

Is it to ruthlessly do whatever it takes to eventually win another WS title including embracing a deep multiyear rebuild?

Is it to just consistently turn a profit no matter the on field success?

Is it to appease their (older) fanbase by always having a few "name" players, even if that only leads to consistent mediocrity on the field?

Is it something else?

Yes, this reset/rebuild is a disaster.
Mainly it's a disaster because we haven't progressed from last season.
When I say that, I mean the young "talent" hasn't moved the needle.
So, we are back to square one in 2026.
Unless something changes the remainder of the year, I see no one at the MLB level to build around.
Let's hope JJ shines.
That will go a long way.
But let's face it, we need a few more.
In my opinion, we'd be just as well off had we sold some of these players last year.
Going 80-82 isn't any different that 70-92.
Either way, no playoffs.

Matt, myself, many others were advocating that we do just that. now they are worth a fraction of what we could have gotten.

Edit: On the same subject, we should absolutely trade Donovan IF they are not going to extend him this offseason. He is at his highest value. He has 2 more years left of control, one of which is in peril with the players contract. If he makes it to free agency, you will not sign him.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Is that I don't think they know what their priorities are.

Is it to ruthlessly do whatever it takes to eventually win another WS title including embracing a deep multiyear rebuild?

Is it to just consistently turn a profit no matter the on field success?

Is it to appease their (older) fanbase by always having a few "name" players, even if that only leads to consistent mediocrity on the field?

Is it something else?

Yes, this reset/rebuild is a disaster.
Mainly it's a disaster because we haven't progressed from last season.
When I say that, I mean the young "talent" hasn't moved the needle.
So, we are back to square one in 2026.
Unless something changes the remainder of the year, I see no one at the MLB level to build around.
Let's hope JJ shines.
That will go a long way.
But let's face it, we need a few more.
In my opinion, we'd be just as well off had we sold some of these players last year.
Going 80-82 isn't any different that 70-92.
Either way, no playoffs.

Your post started great. Reference no advance of the young. That’s important to the reset because it determines who stays and goes when Bloom starts trimming the fat.

The reset is designed to see who can play. Add a piece this off season. Play 2026. Cut. Add me piece in off-season 2026. Compete 2027.

Takes time. These game results are totally not relevant to the reset. Zero bearing.

[An Old Friend]

Is that I don't think they know what their priorities are.

Is it to ruthlessly do whatever it takes to eventually win another WS title including embracing a deep multiyear rebuild?

Is it to just consistently turn a profit no matter the on field success?

Is it to appease their (older) fanbase by always having a few "name" players, even if that only leads to consistent mediocrity on the field?

Is it something else?

I think ownership trusted a guy who had clearly been lapped by the field, and they prioritized loyalty which blinded them to the realities of how far they were falling behind. And they completely rid themselves of the concept of accountability. No repercussions for abysmal spending or talent evaluation. No more focus on winning. No urgency.

They replaced all that with basically “we hope this goes well” and “hopefully it gets better”.

[icon]

Is that I don't think they know what their priorities are.

Is it to ruthlessly do whatever it takes to eventually win another WS title including embracing a deep multiyear rebuild?

Is it to just consistently turn a profit no matter the on field success?

Is it to appease their (older) fanbase by always having a few "name" players, even if that only leads to consistent mediocrity on the field?

Is it something else?

I think ownership trusted a guy who had clearly been lapped by the field, and they prioritized loyalty which blinded them to the realities of how far they were falling behind. And they completely rid themselves of the concept of accountability. No repercussions for abysmal spending or talent evaluation. No more focus on winning. No urgency.

They replaced all that with basically “we hope this goes well” and “hopefully it gets better”.

Agreed. I know it's a cliche, but it's true. Hope is not a strategy. Going into every season with major question marks is not even any big reason for hope.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Yes, this reset/rebuild is a disaster.
Mainly it's a disaster because we haven't progressed from last season.
When I say that, I mean the young "talent" hasn't moved the needle.
So, we are back to square one in 2026.
Unless something changes the remainder of the year, I see no one at the MLB level to build around.
Let's hope JJ shines.
That will go a long way.
But let's face it, we need a few more.
In my opinion, we'd be just as well off had we sold some of these players last year.
Going 80-82 isn't any different that 70-92.
Either way, no playoffs.

I'd say that the "reset/rebuild" process has not gone well because they never fully committed to it. They probably should have seen the writing on the wall in 2023 and traded one of Goldschmidt and/or Arenado in order to get a head start on the process. I said at the time that there's no way that this FO would trade either or those players because they value having that "name" player, so I get why they didn't, but it would have been the smart move. They did good to trade some of those other players that year and that is starting to pay off, but they didn't stick with it.

They were kind of okay in 2024, so they once again put off a rebuild. Traded Edman for Pham and Fedde, which was a good trade, but probably should have faced facts and tried to get a prospect from that trade instead.

And this year they still haven't committed to their reset/runway. Some guys have been given runway, others have not. That's partially due to not being able to trade certain players with a NTC, You also have that they either couldn't or wouldn't trade guys like Fedde or Helsley in the offseason. But they started winning some games and some of that runway disappeared so that they could compete, which I understand, but it still didn't help.

But as to discovering whether or not certain players will progress or not, I don't think that's a problem. I think that's part of the rebuild process. You get a chance to have a long look at guys and see if they're going to be guys you want to hold onto long term or guys that aren't going to play a role in the future.

[45s]

FWIW - with regards to deep rebuild examples:

Houston was a sub-.500 team for six consecutive years before they got it right in 2015 and on the road to sustained success

Atlanta was a sub-.500 team for four consecutive years before they got it right in 2018

Philadelphia was a.500 or sub-.500 team for seven consecutive years before 2021

Baltimore was a sub-.500 team for five consecutive years before 2022

Deep rebuilds take time.

the last several years of the stl organizational reminds me of the stros pre crane/luhnow

a patch here, a patch there.....if we just get that guy, just get one more pitcher, sure, we can get another season or two out of these guys

we can't dump this guy.....he's a fan favorite

let's fire the manager

it all failed miserably

it wasn't until a stark change in leadership.....and owner.....that the philosophy changed,,,,,along with the patience and willingness to lose for as long as it takes....

bloom may be the guy who has the skills and balls to blow it up and start over.......but does ownership??

[Melville]

Is that I don't think they know what their priorities are.

Is it to ruthlessly do whatever it takes to eventually win another WS title including embracing a deep multiyear rebuild?

Is it to just consistently turn a profit no matter the on field success?

Is it to appease their (older) fanbase by always having a few "name" players, even if that only leads to consistent mediocrity on the field?

Is it something else?

Yes.
As I have said many times, the Cardinals are not a baseball team with a marketing department - they are a marketing company with a baseball department.
As much, they do not make CORRECT BASEBALL DECISIONS.
All there is to it.

[gghhamr]

One might compare them to the slog management orchestrated in the 1970s. Back then, it was a talent eval issue and some issues related to talent development, but they were also hung up on embracing the realities of free agency. The latter has gone away, but the enormous cost of FA weighs heavily as it does on every mid-market team. What are the Brewers doing that we can't model?

Intelligence

[CorneliusWolfe]

One might compare them to the slog management orchestrated in the 1970s. Back then, it was a talent eval issue and some issues related to talent development, but they were also hung up on embracing the realities of free agency. The latter has gone away, but the enormous cost of FA weighs heavily as it does on every mid-market team. What are the Brewers doing that we can't model?

All of this. They never know what they have but sure find a way to trade and bet on the wrong guys.

Even when they set a clear goal to find out what they have, they do nothing to support that strategy.