Managers more important that Execs

[CorneliusWolfe]

Lot of talk/hope about Bloom sweeping away Mo's mess and improving the team going forward. If this is to happen, the single most important first decision will not be in player personnel but the manager. For those who think I'm Oli-hating, note I didn't say he can't be the choice.

Execs look at the same data as an avid fan. Statistics, box scores, results, combine skill performance, etc. We all see it because this is not an overly complicated game. Managers, however, are in the trenches both strategically and in creating and maintaing a proper and professional culture of respect and competition. This skillset requires something that can't be faked and shortcomings can't be hidden. True leadership ability.

New, cutting edge technologies are available to every team and only offer short-term advantages. Of course there are teams who won't pay to keep up, because they are cheap, which is on the owner. When the draft comes around, every team's board would look much the same if not for owner spending preference on slot money.

There is a reason the Reds have passed us in the standings, and it's because their POBO paid an experienced and proven manager to lead them. It didn't take some out of the box stroke of genius. Who is our right guy for Manager?

Even if Bloom and ownership aren't the best, they can be compensated for by a great Manager. It appears TLR helped prop Mo up as the first half of his career was a lot more successful than the second half.

[scoutyjones2]

No

[ramfandan]

Lot of talk/hope about Bloom sweeping away Mo's mess and improving the team going forward. If this is to happen, the single most important decision will not be in player personnel but the manager. For those who think I'm Oli-hating, note I didn't say he can't be the choice.

Execs look at the same data as an avid fan. Statistics, box scores, results, combine skill performance, etc. We all see it because this is not an overly complicated game. Managers, however, are in the trenches both strategically and in creating and maintaing a proper and professional culture of respect and competition. This skillset requires something that can't be faked and shortcomings can't be hidden. True leadership ability.

New, cutting edge technologies are available to every team and only offer short-term advantages. Of course there are teams who won't pay to keep up, because they are cheap, which is on the owner. When the draft comes around, every team's board would look much the same if not for owner spending preference on slot money.

There is a reason the Reds have passed us in the standings, and it's because their POBO paid an experienced and proven manager to lead them. It didn't take some out of the box stroke of genius. Who is our right guy for Manager? Is he already on staff? This is Bloom's most critical and important decision.

Even if he and ownership aren't the best, they can be compensated for by a great Manager. It appears TLR helped prop Mo up as the first half of his career was a lot more successful than the second half.

Good post ! Francona is certainly an experienced manager and had a previous good overall record. In the Brewers case, Craig Counsell had been a fixture there and wildly praised for doing an excellent job year to year with a small payroll of talent there. Counsell though wanted the 'big bucks' and owner Attansio was not going to cough up close to $8 M for his manager per year. The Brewers GM Arnold did NOT go with a proven guy with MLB managerial experience to succeed Counsell . Murphy had baseball experience as Notre Dame manager and Counsells bench coach but no 'proven manager' label , yet Murphy hired internally .
Don't know if it would be a comparable move but if the Cardinals replaced Oli with Stubby Clapp that may be a similar type hire as Murphy was to Brewers. Stubby has been around a long time like Murph . Wonder how the Cardinal fan base would react to a Stubby Clapp as the new manager.

[CorneliusWolfe]

Lot of talk/hope about Bloom sweeping away Mo's mess and improving the team going forward. If this is to happen, the single most important decision will not be in player personnel but the manager. For those who think I'm Oli-hating, note I didn't say he can't be the choice.

Execs look at the same data as an avid fan. Statistics, box scores, results, combine skill performance, etc. We all see it because this is not an overly complicated game. Managers, however, are in the trenches both strategically and in creating and maintaing a proper and professional culture of respect and competition. This skillset requires something that can't be faked and shortcomings can't be hidden. True leadership ability.

New, cutting edge technologies are available to every team and only offer short-term advantages. Of course there are teams who won't pay to keep up, because they are cheap, which is on the owner. When the draft comes around, every team's board would look much the same if not for owner spending preference on slot money.

There is a reason the Reds have passed us in the standings, and it's because their POBO paid an experienced and proven manager to lead them. It didn't take some out of the box stroke of genius. Who is our right guy for Manager? Is he already on staff? This is Bloom's most critical and important decision.

Even if he and ownership aren't the best, they can be compensated for by a great Manager. It appears TLR helped prop Mo up as the first half of his career was a lot more successful than the second half.

Good post ! Francona is certainly an experienced manager and had a previous good overall record. In the Brewers case, Craig Counsell had been a fixture there and wildly praised for doing an excellent job year to year with a small payroll of talent there. Counsell though wanted the 'big bucks' and owner Attansio was not going to cough up close to $8 M for his manager per year. The Brewers GM Arnold did go with a proven manager to succeed Counsell . Murphy had baseball experience as Notre Dame manager and Counsells bench coach but no 'proven manager' label , yet Murphy hired internally .
You don't know til the guy is in there sometimes.

That’s why I didn’t judge Oli too soon because you don’t know until they have time to make a difference. Mo has always gone with a rookie manager since TLR departed and it hasn’t seemed to pay off yet.

[CorneliusWolfe]

No

What’s more important in war…a great General or Bureaucrat?

[desertrat23]

I don’t think we really know if Oli is/will be a good big-league manager or not. This roster (and the pipeline that feeds it) is so dysfunctional and his boss is so incompetent that’s he certainly hasn’t been given the tools to succeed. A lot of guys that went on to be HOF managers weren’t successful in their first job (Herzog, TLR, Torre, etc.). Is Oli in that category? I doubt it. Should he be replaced? Probably, because the stink of the disaster that is late-Mo won’t wash off. But there’s a lot of unknowns with him.

[scoutyjones2]

No

What’s more important in war…a great General or Bureaucrat?

Ridiculous

[CorneliusWolfe]

No

What’s more important in war…a great General or Bureaucrat?

Ridiculous

Fair enough. You have made good suggestions on player acquisitions, any ideas on the man who will lead them? Or do you think Oli still deserves more time? Or do you think Manager is generally a non-factor?

[CorneliusWolfe]

I don’t think we really know if Oli is/will be a good big-league manager or not. This roster (and the pipeline that feeds it) is so dysfunctional and his boss is so incompetent that’s he certainly hasn’t been given the tools to succeed. A lot of guys that went on to be HOF managers weren’t successful in their first job (Herzog, TLR, Torre, etc.). Is Oli in that category? I doubt it. Should he be replaced? Probably, because the stink of the disaster that is late-Mo won’t wash off. But there’s a lot of unknowns with him.

I generally agree with this assessment. Though I think he should be replaced because he seems more like a Dad to the players instead of a shrewd leader. Seems a little too tolerant of losing. Maybe reassign him in the player development realm.

[CorneliusWolfe]

Lot of talk/hope about Bloom sweeping away Mo's mess and improving the team going forward. If this is to happen, the single most important decision will not be in player personnel but the manager. For those who think I'm Oli-hating, note I didn't say he can't be the choice.

Execs look at the same data as an avid fan. Statistics, box scores, results, combine skill performance, etc. We all see it because this is not an overly complicated game. Managers, however, are in the trenches both strategically and in creating and maintaing a proper and professional culture of respect and competition. This skillset requires something that can't be faked and shortcomings can't be hidden. True leadership ability.

New, cutting edge technologies are available to every team and only offer short-term advantages. Of course there are teams who won't pay to keep up, because they are cheap, which is on the owner. When the draft comes around, every team's board would look much the same if not for owner spending preference on slot money.

There is a reason the Reds have passed us in the standings, and it's because their POBO paid an experienced and proven manager to lead them. It didn't take some out of the box stroke of genius. Who is our right guy for Manager? Is he already on staff? This is Bloom's most critical and important decision.

Even if he and ownership aren't the best, they can be compensated for by a great Manager. It appears TLR helped prop Mo up as the first half of his career was a lot more successful than the second half.

Good post ! Francona is certainly an experienced manager and had a previous good overall record. In the Brewers case, Craig Counsell had been a fixture there and wildly praised for doing an excellent job year to year with a small payroll of talent there. Counsell though wanted the 'big bucks' and owner Attansio was not going to cough up close to $8 M for his manager per year. The Brewers GM Arnold did NOT go with a proven guy with MLB managerial experience to succeed Counsell . Murphy had baseball experience as Notre Dame manager and Counsells bench coach but no 'proven manager' label , yet Murphy hired internally .
Don't know if it would be a comparable move but if the Cardinals replaced Oli with Stubby Clapp that may be a similar type hire as Murphy was to Brewers. Stubby has been around a long time like Murph . Wonder how the Cardinal fan base would react to a Stubby Clapp as the new manager.

If a proven veteran manager is not available to sign, I wouldn't be against seeing Stubby getting a chance. Like you said, he could be our Murphy-type comp.

[AtillaTheBlue1]

Lot of talk/hope about Bloom sweeping away Mo's mess and improving the team going forward. If this is to happen, the single most important first decision will not be in player personnel but the manager. For those who think I'm Oli-hating, note I didn't say he can't be the choice.

Execs look at the same data as an avid fan. Statistics, box scores, results, combine skill performance, etc. We all see it because this is not an overly complicated game. Managers, however, are in the trenches both strategically and in creating and maintaing a proper and professional culture of respect and competition. This skillset requires something that can't be faked and shortcomings can't be hidden. True leadership ability.

New, cutting edge technologies are available to every team and only offer short-term advantages. Of course there are teams who won't pay to keep up, because they are cheap, which is on the owner. When the draft comes around, every team's board would look much the same if not for owner spending preference on slot money.

There is a reason the Reds have passed us in the standings, and it's because their POBO paid an experienced and proven manager to lead them. It didn't take some out of the box stroke of genius. Who is our right guy for Manager?

Even if Bloom and ownership aren't the best, they can be compensated for by a great Manager. It appears TLR helped prop Mo up as the first half of his career was a lot more successful than the second half.

you need execs doing their job, it makes the managers job 10x easier

[JuanAgosto]

Lot of talk/hope about Bloom sweeping away Mo's mess and improving the team going forward. If this is to happen, the single most important decision will not be in player personnel but the manager. For those who think I'm Oli-hating, note I didn't say he can't be the choice.

Execs look at the same data as an avid fan. Statistics, box scores, results, combine skill performance, etc. We all see it because this is not an overly complicated game. Managers, however, are in the trenches both strategically and in creating and maintaing a proper and professional culture of respect and competition. This skillset requires something that can't be faked and shortcomings can't be hidden. True leadership ability.

New, cutting edge technologies are available to every team and only offer short-term advantages. Of course there are teams who won't pay to keep up, because they are cheap, which is on the owner. When the draft comes around, every team's board would look much the same if not for owner spending preference on slot money.

There is a reason the Reds have passed us in the standings, and it's because their POBO paid an experienced and proven manager to lead them. It didn't take some out of the box stroke of genius. Who is our right guy for Manager? Is he already on staff? This is Bloom's most critical and important decision.

Even if he and ownership aren't the best, they can be compensated for by a great Manager. It appears TLR helped prop Mo up as the first half of his career was a lot more successful than the second half.

Good post ! Francona is certainly an experienced manager and had a previous good overall record. In the Brewers case, Craig Counsell had been a fixture there and wildly praised for doing an excellent job year to year with a small payroll of talent there. Counsell though wanted the 'big bucks' and owner Attansio was not going to cough up close to $8 M for his manager per year. The Brewers GM Arnold did go with a proven manager to succeed Counsell . Murphy had baseball experience as Notre Dame manager and Counsells bench coach but no 'proven manager' label , yet Murphy hired internally .
You don't know til the guy is in there sometimes.

That’s why I didn’t judge Oli too soon because you don’t know until they have time to make a difference. Mo has always gone with a rookie manager since TLR departed and it hasn’t seemed to pay off yet.

John Mozeliak is scared of established managers. Don Tony intimidated him. The thought of Molina being on staff terrified him.

[CorneliusWolfe]

you need execs doing their job, it makes the managers job 10x easier

True. Maybe too many hands in the pot though. I’d like to see a separation of duties that do not intermingle marketing, PR, business ventures etc. with actual baseball decisions.

Abolish the POBO position and let the baseball decisions end with the GM and create a position to oversee the other stuff.

[CorneliusWolfe]

John Mozeliak is scared of established managers. Don Tony intimidated him. The thought of Molina being on staff terrified him.

I’ve wondered the same thing. Maybe if he didn’t get promoted at the same time he started picking managers he would had a more focused approach and chosen more wisely. Maybe over-rewarded too soon.

[Clubmaker2]

when the exec's hire a guy to manage that has neither the experience nor the background for the job, then the execs are planning on frequently directing what the manager does..

[CorneliusWolfe]

when the exec's hire a guy to manage that has neither the experience nor the background for the job, then the execs are planning on frequently directing what the manager does..

Spot on. Why even bother with a puppet? Mo should’ve just put on a uniform and went to the dugout himself. To think you could passively pull strings from an office to the dugout while wearing several other hats implies undervaluation of the Manager position in the first place.