new article - spending vs winning

[ClassicO]

new article - spending vs winning

Nice chart but is there a backing article you could link to?

It was in The Athletic - paywall.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/637076 ... iyh3tqrsl8

[BrockFloodMaris]

Not a surprise, but it's clear the Cards don't spend enough. You have to spend smart on FAs (inc. international) and on player development, but the team payroll for this franchise is sad.



Screenshot 2025-07-18 at 7.03.54 AM.png

I'm sure that BDW and Chaim Bloom aspire to be included in the "Overachievers" category in blue on your graph. With teams like Tampa Bay, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Cleveland and Seattle. Yes, I know that BAL and CLE are having off years. If you think that BDW and Bloom are aiming to be in the green "Powerhouses" group, you will be sadly mistaken.

[ClassicO]

Not a surprise, but it's clear the Cards don't spend enough. You have to spend smart on FAs (inc. international) and on player development, but the team payroll for this franchise is sad.



Screenshot 2025-07-18 at 7.03.54 AM.png

How is it clear?

How is it not? I guess if the goal is to be in the middle, they're doing fine, but I'm quite sure that we generally think they should aspire to win World Series.

I like the "overachievers." The teams listed haven't won a World Series in 40-50 years - or ever (Brewers, Tampa Bay and Seattle). They may overachieve in a decent winning %, but not with the most salient point - a ring. Cards are stuck in the middle - which is status quo city.

[jcgmoi]

It was in The Athletic - paywall.

Thanks for the link.

[CCard]

I find it interesting that Cubs spend $197M vs. Brewers $112 M and there is a 1 game difference in the standings .

How many World Series titles does the Brewers have? When did they even win a playoff game? How many championships do the big spenders have compared to the middle or lowers spenders since the age of free agency? The numbers tell the story.

[CCard]

This is so tiresome

Yes….spending is key…but not singularly..to sustained winning.

but this ownership is not going to spend with the big boys

They just aren’t……and all the whining on this board is not going to change that..

Let it go

Nobody says they have to spend Dodger dollars, but they could spend a hell of a lot more and still make a profit. Suck up to them if you want but intelligent people know the score.

[CCard]

it's not what ya spend, but how ya spend

let's see how things look after the new CBA

I beg to differ somewhat. It is what you spend, the numbers of championships back that up. But you're right in that it matters how you spend also. Much of it is luck. The Cards signed Brett Cecil to a good sized contract trying to fill a position of need. He sucked long and hard and they eventually parted ways, but I was all for that signing as was many others. If he'd even come close to what he did the previous season we'd all have been very happy with him. The difference is that the big spenders ship a guy like that out and replace him with talent while the Cards and the lower spenders keep running him out there month after month hoping for that improvement that often never comes. I hope the CBA does something about the deferred money in baseball. It's gotten out of hand.

[CCard]

I don't think the take away is just payroll. It's also only the last 3 years, but that's okay because we haven't been good during that time. Still, we are still about the top of that middle group while also maintaining a payroll in the middle of that same group. I'd say development is more important because it is more realistic for a market of our size and it would seem that they could have a lot of success if they could get back to that.

You know, like they basically did for 20 years before that with basically they same middle of the road payroll.

Recently the Cards made $350 million in profit. Tell me cutting payroll isn't a slap in the face to the 3 million fans that come to games year in and year out for the last two decades.

[CCard]

Not a surprise, but it's clear the Cards don't spend enough. You have to spend smart on FAs (inc. international) and on player development, but the team payroll for this franchise is sad.



Screenshot 2025-07-18 at 7.03.54 AM.png

I'm sure that BDW and Chaim Bloom aspire to be included in the "Overachievers" category in blue on your graph. With teams like Tampa Bay, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Cleveland and Seattle. Yes, I know that BAL and CLE are having off years. If you think that BDW and Bloom are aiming to be in the green "Powerhouses" group, you will be sadly mistaken.

How many of those teams have won a world series? You spend you win. You don't you won't.

[Carp4Cy]

I find it interesting that Cubs spend $197M vs. Brewers $112 M and there is a 1 game difference in the standings .

The overachievers however, have a relatively poor playoff record.

[desertrat23]

I don't think the take away is just payroll. It's also only the last 3 years, but that's okay because we haven't been good during that time. Still, we are still about the top of that middle group while also maintaining a payroll in the middle of that same group. I'd say development is more important because it is more realistic for a market of our size and it would seem that they could have a lot of success if they could get back to that.

You know, like they basically did for 20 years before that with basically they same middle of the road payroll.

Recently the Cards made $350 million in profit. Tell me cutting payroll isn't a slap in the face to the 3 million fans that come to games year in and year out for the last two decades.

Exactly. Cardinals fans have proven themselves to be very loyal; they've more than lived up to their end of the bargain for decades. The team chose to stop living up to their end and then act shocked and indignant when people stop showing up. There shouldn't be one person on this board defending them.

[Carp4Cy]

Not a surprise, but it's clear the Cards don't spend enough. You have to spend smart on FAs (inc. international) and on player development, but the team payroll for this franchise is sad.



Screenshot 2025-07-18 at 7.03.54 AM.png

I'm sure that BDW and Chaim Bloom aspire to be included in the "Overachievers" category in blue on your graph. With teams like Tampa Bay, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Cleveland and Seattle. Yes, I know that BAL and CLE are having off years. If you think that BDW and Bloom are aiming to be in the green "Powerhouses" group, you will be sadly mistaken.

We dont' need to be either. If we win and have the right popular star players here that people want to see, we will draw 3M fans, and if we draw 3M, we can support ~$200M payroll, which is between the overachievers and the powerhouses.

Notice that the Angels have their own category. We need to map our our own category but in the opposite direction. Upper middle payroll used wisely with high winning % and playoff success. We've done exactly that in years past. Bloom needs to get us back there. Its Smart Agressive. That could be name of this category.

[Carp4Cy]

I don't think the take away is just payroll. It's also only the last 3 years, but that's okay because we haven't been good during that time. Still, we are still about the top of that middle group while also maintaining a payroll in the middle of that same group. I'd say development is more important because it is more realistic for a market of our size and it would seem that they could have a lot of success if they could get back to that.

You know, like they basically did for 20 years before that with basically they same middle of the road payroll.

We haven't been Middle of the road payroll for 20 years. Many / most of those years we were top 10. Also top 5 or top 3 in Ticket sales. We have the fanbase to support upper middle market.

This year we are 19th in payroll. $200M would put us 11th (or 10th if you don't count the useless Angels). That is about where we need to be for this fanbase and franchise to succeed and restore the ticket sales. Be more aggressive, and smart.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

This year we are 19th in payroll. $200M would put us 11th (or 10th if you don't count the useless Angels). That is about where we need to be for this fanbase and franchise to succeed and restore the ticket sales. Be more aggressive, and smart.

I agree with that. We're also in a "reset" year or whatever they wanna call it. Shedding some payroll for that kind of thing is very common. 19th in payroll is a big outlier over the past 25 years.

I do agree that they should get back to around the top 10 in payroll and if 19th in payroll becomes the standard rather than the outlier, then I will agree that not spending enough money is the problem.

[RunSup]

Not a surprise, but it's clear the Cards don't spend enough. You have to spend smart on FAs (inc. international) and on player development, but the team payroll for this franchise is sad.



Screenshot 2025-07-18 at 7.03.54 AM.png

Well the Angels are pathetic. Spend a bunch and lose a bunch.

At least we're not the Angels, if that helps. No,... no it does not.

So, Big spenders win a bunch. Lower spenders have mixed results.

Gotta be smarter than the competition with better development systems.... and despite efforts to fix this moving forward, ... the Cardinals haven't shown these results recently.

[CCard]

Not a surprise, but it's clear the Cards don't spend enough. You have to spend smart on FAs (inc. international) and on player development, but the team payroll for this franchise is sad.



Screenshot 2025-07-18 at 7.03.54 AM.png

Well the Angels are pathetic. Spend a bunch and lose a bunch.

At least we're not the Angels, if that helps. No,... no it does not.

So, Big spenders win a bunch. Lower spenders have mixed results.

Gotta be smarter than the competition with better development systems.... and despite efforts to fix this moving forward, ... the Cardinals haven't shown these results recently.

I've never followed the Angels but looking in from the outside I'd say that they haven't spent enough on their pitching and maybe too much on their hitting. That huge contract to Pujols probably hurt them more than it helped, though I'm sure ticket sales went up.