How does Joel Reuter grade out the Doyle pick as a B?

[Bully4you]

This seems weird to me.
Shouldn't this pick be given the best grade.
I mean Doyle was consistently mocked to
go in the top 2 and the Cards ended up getting
the possible best SLH pitcher at pick 5.
Instead, he says the following:

First Round (No. 5 Overall): Liam Doyle, LHP, Tennessee," Reuter said. "MLB Comp: Robbie Ray. After flashing swing-and-miss stuff at Coastal Carolina (56.1 IP, 4.15 ERA, 69 K) and Ole Miss (55.0 IP, 5.73 ERA, 84 K), Doyle joined his third team when he transferred to Tennessee where he was college baseball's biggest breakout star. Leaning heavily on a high-octane fastball that touches 100 mph and blows hitters away up the zone, he posted a 3.20 ERA, 0.99 WHIP and 164 strikeouts in 95.2 innings.

"A max-effort delivery and his lagging secondary stuff raises some legitimate reliever questions, but a fastball like his from the left side does not come along often. Grade: B. The predraft expectation was that Doyle would be gone and the Cardinals would be picking between Jamie Arnold or someone from the prep shortstop class. Instead they get the most overpowering pitcher in college baseball this year, though there is some risk here."

Isn't there risk with every pick.
The #1 pick went to a kid that's
17 years old.
I just don't understand that assessment.
I'd call it a A grade all day.

he was mocked to go #2 to b/c the Angels were picking #2, not b/c he was the #2 amateur prospect. On most draft boards he had fallen anywhere from 7-10. The Angels are notorious for the Underslot deal, which means they draft players willing to take around 75-80% of slot value. Doyle was expected to be this pick, they chose differently with Bremner.

Risk : His risk is his Floor. His Floor is Back End Reliever. The Cards are "risking" paying a potential future setup man $8million. The Cards are hoping he gives a Reward by being a Starter, and praying he's a Front of the Rotation starter.

The "B" grade is fitting, and it's not an insult.

Okay, I don't understand this slot value or slot deal?
What's going on here?
How do they determine what gets paid to whom based on where they are drafted?
Anyway, what you said makes sense now.
My initial understanding was that Doyle was mocked at 2, so I thought we got good value at 5.
And he was mocked going 2 by several sources.

[Bully4you]

This seems weird to me.
Shouldn't this pick be given the best grade.
I mean Doyle was consistently mocked to
go in the top 2 and the Cards ended up getting
the possible best SLH pitcher at pick 5.
Instead, he says the following:

First Round (No. 5 Overall): Liam Doyle, LHP, Tennessee," Reuter said. "MLB Comp: Robbie Ray. After flashing swing-and-miss stuff at Coastal Carolina (56.1 IP, 4.15 ERA, 69 K) and Ole Miss (55.0 IP, 5.73 ERA, 84 K), Doyle joined his third team when he transferred to Tennessee where he was college baseball's biggest breakout star. Leaning heavily on a high-octane fastball that touches 100 mph and blows hitters away up the zone, he posted a 3.20 ERA, 0.99 WHIP and 164 strikeouts in 95.2 innings.

"A max-effort delivery and his lagging secondary stuff raises some legitimate reliever questions, but a fastball like his from the left side does not come along often. Grade: B. The predraft expectation was that Doyle would be gone and the Cardinals would be picking between Jamie Arnold or someone from the prep shortstop class. Instead they get the most overpowering pitcher in college baseball this year, though there is some risk here."

Isn't there risk with every pick.
The #1 pick went to a kid that's
17 years old.
I just don't understand that assessment.
I'd call it a A grade all day.

No secondary pitch...red flag. Reading is hard. Was predicted to go 8th and Cards picked him 5th

But I looked at his scouting and he did fare well with secondary pitches? So, this guy must have his own opinion.
Then he says we got the most overpowering pitcher in college ball, but there is some risk here?
Well, there's risk with any pick.

[ramfandan]

This ‘grading’ phenomenon started with the NFL draft I believe.
I have found the exercise quite amusing as I was a career elementary teacher. I was once asked how many students this year did you give an ‘A’ to in math class.

I replied with two things…. First, I do not ‘GIVE’ A’s .
Student ‘EARN’ grades of A .

Secondly, ‘giving ‘ an A immediately after draft day would be analogous to me judging a student’s math ability based on his/her first quiz score. If they ace the 1st quiz does not necessarily mean they are an A caliber math student. Let’s see their body of work after 1st quarter, 9 weeks.
We can judge Doyle a bit down the road .
Doing it now makes for fun banter but rather meaningless.
Grading how a team did in the draft a day after it is over is ridiculous but it sure daws interest from fans so it never ends.
The ‘grade’ game is here to stay.
Banter back and forth on who got what grades and which team had a better grade than another is quite humorous to me but some apparently put a lot of stick into final grades of how their team did according to an ‘expert’ grader. Lol

[craviduce]

This seems weird to me.
Shouldn't this pick be given the best grade.
I mean Doyle was consistently mocked to
go in the top 2 and the Cards ended up getting
the possible best SLH pitcher at pick 5.
Instead, he says the following:

First Round (No. 5 Overall): Liam Doyle, LHP, Tennessee," Reuter said. "MLB Comp: Robbie Ray. After flashing swing-and-miss stuff at Coastal Carolina (56.1 IP, 4.15 ERA, 69 K) and Ole Miss (55.0 IP, 5.73 ERA, 84 K), Doyle joined his third team when he transferred to Tennessee where he was college baseball's biggest breakout star. Leaning heavily on a high-octane fastball that touches 100 mph and blows hitters away up the zone, he posted a 3.20 ERA, 0.99 WHIP and 164 strikeouts in 95.2 innings.

"A max-effort delivery and his lagging secondary stuff raises some legitimate reliever questions, but a fastball like his from the left side does not come along often. Grade: B. The predraft expectation was that Doyle would be gone and the Cardinals would be picking between Jamie Arnold or someone from the prep shortstop class. Instead they get the most overpowering pitcher in college baseball this year, though there is some risk here."

Isn't there risk with every pick.
The #1 pick went to a kid that's
17 years old.
I just don't understand that assessment.
I'd call it a A grade all day.

he was mocked to go #2 to b/c the Angels were picking #2, not b/c he was the #2 amateur prospect. On most draft boards he had fallen anywhere from 7-10. The Angels are notorious for the Underslot deal, which means they draft players willing to take around 75-80% of slot value. Doyle was expected to be this pick, they chose differently with Bremner.

Risk : His risk is his Floor. His Floor is Back End Reliever. The Cards are "risking" paying a potential future setup man $8million. The Cards are hoping he gives a Reward by being a Starter, and praying he's a Front of the Rotation starter.

The "B" grade is fitting, and it's not an insult.

Okay, I don't understand this slot value or slot deal?
What's going on here?
How do they determine what gets paid to whom based on where they are drafted?
Anyway, what you said makes sense now.
My initial understanding was that Doyle was mocked at 2, so I thought we got good value at 5.
And he was mocked going 2 by several sources.

He was mocked #2, b/c the Angels made it known in May they were looking for a pitcher that they could give an underslot deal to...industry wide thought this meant Doyle. He wasn't #2 ranked on any prospect boards, even though he was mocking @ #2, b/c a publication believed the Angels would take him. The #2 slot, according to MLB, is worth $10.25million. It was the belief that Doyle, being ranked lower than Anderson and Arnold on every draft board (which aren't mocks, they're prospect rankings), would sign for less with the Angels. He may have done that, but the Angels pivoted and went with a Tyler Bremner, who'll definitely sign for the 75% mininium of $10.25million...which is around $7.6-7.7million.

A team can offer above and below the bonus slot recommendation. Like I said above, Doyle was "expected" to take less. But why the Angels pivot? I'm assuming he wasn't keen to take what the Angels offered at the combine, the Angels then went with Plan B. I'm not sure if the Cards can get Doyle to sign for what the Angels offered, I doubt they'll ever know that number. This deal could be closer to the $8.13 slot value....I expect it to be around $7.5-8.2m

Does this help?

differentiating between "Mock" and "Ranking"..... Doyle "mocking" at #2, but his overall "ranking" was #8...according to MLB.com

[Bully4you]

This seems weird to me.
Shouldn't this pick be given the best grade.
I mean Doyle was consistently mocked to
go in the top 2 and the Cards ended up getting
the possible best SLH pitcher at pick 5.
Instead, he says the following:

First Round (No. 5 Overall): Liam Doyle, LHP, Tennessee," Reuter said. "MLB Comp: Robbie Ray. After flashing swing-and-miss stuff at Coastal Carolina (56.1 IP, 4.15 ERA, 69 K) and Ole Miss (55.0 IP, 5.73 ERA, 84 K), Doyle joined his third team when he transferred to Tennessee where he was college baseball's biggest breakout star. Leaning heavily on a high-octane fastball that touches 100 mph and blows hitters away up the zone, he posted a 3.20 ERA, 0.99 WHIP and 164 strikeouts in 95.2 innings.

"A max-effort delivery and his lagging secondary stuff raises some legitimate reliever questions, but a fastball like his from the left side does not come along often. Grade: B. The predraft expectation was that Doyle would be gone and the Cardinals would be picking between Jamie Arnold or someone from the prep shortstop class. Instead they get the most overpowering pitcher in college baseball this year, though there is some risk here."

Isn't there risk with every pick.
The #1 pick went to a kid that's
17 years old.
I just don't understand that assessment.
I'd call it a A grade all day.

he was mocked to go #2 to b/c the Angels were picking #2, not b/c he was the #2 amateur prospect. On most draft boards he had fallen anywhere from 7-10. The Angels are notorious for the Underslot deal, which means they draft players willing to take around 75-80% of slot value. Doyle was expected to be this pick, they chose differently with Bremner.

Risk : His risk is his Floor. His Floor is Back End Reliever. The Cards are "risking" paying a potential future setup man $8million. The Cards are hoping he gives a Reward by being a Starter, and praying he's a Front of the Rotation starter.

The "B" grade is fitting, and it's not an insult.

Okay, I don't understand this slot value or slot deal?
What's going on here?
How do they determine what gets paid to whom based on where they are drafted?
Anyway, what you said makes sense now.
My initial understanding was that Doyle was mocked at 2, so I thought we got good value at 5.
And he was mocked going 2 by several sources.

He was mocked #2, b/c the Angels made it known in May they were looking for a pitcher that they could give an underslot deal to...industry wide thought this meant Doyle. He wasn't #2 ranked on any prospect boards, even though he was mocking @ #2, b/c a publication believed the Angels would take him. The #2 slot, according to MLB, is worth $10.25million. It was the belief that Doyle, being ranked lower than Anderson and Arnold on every draft board (which aren't mocks, they're prospect rankings), would sign for less with the Angels. He may have done that, but the Angels pivoted and went with a Tyler Bremner, who'll definitely sign for the 75% mininium of $10.25million...which is around $7.6-7.7million.

A team can offer above and below the bonus slot recommendation. Like I said above, Doyle was "expected" to take less. But why the Angels pivot? I'm assuming he wasn't keen to take what the Angels offered at the combine, the Angels then went with Plan B. I'm not sure if the Cards can get Doyle to sign for what the Angels offered, I doubt they'll ever know that number. This deal could be closer to the $8.13 slot value....I expect it to be around $7.5-8.2m

Does this help?

differentiating between "Mock" and "Ranking"..... Doyle "mocking" at #2, but his overall "ranking" was #8...according to MLB.com

I'm still confused.
Why was it understood that Doyle might take less money?
Just because he was ranked below two others.
Shouldn't it be based only on the draft slot?
Also, why wouldn't Bremmer request the $10.25M?
I realize Bremmer isn't ranked as high, but again they thought enough of him to draft at 2.
Seems strange to pass on a pick because of a couple of million.
If they do that, then obviously they weren't in love with the player.
We have no idea if that was the case.
They may have just felt Bremmer was superior or higher on their draft board.
I think the kid drafted #1 was just 17 and out of high school.
He wasn't even considered the #1 prospect.
So, what do you grade that?

[rockondlouie]

Who's Joel Reuter?

Oh yea, a former Cubs columnist.

Big shock he'd be the idiot to give the Cardinals pick anything but the "A" we all know it was.

Just a guy w/an opinion, no more qualified than a lot of guys here in CT who closely follow the draft.

[Bully4you]

This seems weird to me.
Shouldn't this pick be given the best grade.
I mean Doyle was consistently mocked to
go in the top 2 and the Cards ended up getting
the possible best SLH pitcher at pick 5.
Instead, he says the following:

First Round (No. 5 Overall): Liam Doyle, LHP, Tennessee," Reuter said. "MLB Comp: Robbie Ray. After flashing swing-and-miss stuff at Coastal Carolina (56.1 IP, 4.15 ERA, 69 K) and Ole Miss (55.0 IP, 5.73 ERA, 84 K), Doyle joined his third team when he transferred to Tennessee where he was college baseball's biggest breakout star. Leaning heavily on a high-octane fastball that touches 100 mph and blows hitters away up the zone, he posted a 3.20 ERA, 0.99 WHIP and 164 strikeouts in 95.2 innings.

"A max-effort delivery and his lagging secondary stuff raises some legitimate reliever questions, but a fastball like his from the left side does not come along often. Grade: B. The predraft expectation was that Doyle would be gone and the Cardinals would be picking between Jamie Arnold or someone from the prep shortstop class. Instead they get the most overpowering pitcher in college baseball this year, though there is some risk here."

Isn't there risk with every pick.
The #1 pick went to a kid that's
17 years old.
I just don't understand that assessment.
I'd call it a A grade all day.

he was mocked to go #2 to b/c the Angels were picking #2, not b/c he was the #2 amateur prospect. On most draft boards he had fallen anywhere from 7-10. The Angels are notorious for the Underslot deal, which means they draft players willing to take around 75-80% of slot value. Doyle was expected to be this pick, they chose differently with Bremner.

Risk : His risk is his Floor. His Floor is Back End Reliever. The Cards are "risking" paying a potential future setup man $8million. The Cards are hoping he gives a Reward by being a Starter, and praying he's a Front of the Rotation starter.

The "B" grade is fitting, and it's not an insult.

Okay, I don't understand this slot value or slot deal?
What's going on here?
How do they determine what gets paid to whom based on where they are drafted?
Anyway, what you said makes sense now.
My initial understanding was that Doyle was mocked at 2, so I thought we got good value at 5.
And he was mocked going 2 by several sources.

He was mocked #2, b/c the Angels made it known in May they were looking for a pitcher that they could give an underslot deal to...industry wide thought this meant Doyle. He wasn't #2 ranked on any prospect boards, even though he was mocking @ #2, b/c a publication believed the Angels would take him. The #2 slot, according to MLB, is worth $10.25million. It was the belief that Doyle, being ranked lower than Anderson and Arnold on every draft board (which aren't mocks, they're prospect rankings), would sign for less with the Angels. He may have done that, but the Angels pivoted and went with a Tyler Bremner, who'll definitely sign for the 75% mininium of $10.25million...which is around $7.6-7.7million.

A team can offer above and below the bonus slot recommendation. Like I said above, Doyle was "expected" to take less. But why the Angels pivot? I'm assuming he wasn't keen to take what the Angels offered at the combine, the Angels then went with Plan B. I'm not sure if the Cards can get Doyle to sign for what the Angels offered, I doubt they'll ever know that number. This deal could be closer to the $8.13 slot value....I expect it to be around $7.5-8.2m

Does this help?

differentiating between "Mock" and "Ranking"..... Doyle "mocking" at #2, but his overall "ranking" was #8...according to MLB.com

Here is where he was ranked by all and I'd call it an A grade based on this:

The Athletic (Keith Law): Ranked Doyle as the No. 1 prospect in March 2025, though he later adjusted this to No. 2 in May 2025.

ESPN (Kiley McDaniel): Ranked Doyle as the No. 6 prospect and projected him to be selected No. 2 overall by the Los Angeles Angels in a May 2025 mock draft.

MLB Pipeline: Ranked Doyle as the No. 8 prospect, noting his rise from No. 75 earlier in the season due to his dominant performance.

FanGraphs: Listed Doyle as their No. 1 draft prospect in July 2025.

StatsFarm on X: Ranked Doyle as their No. 5 prospect ahead of the draft.

[BrockFloodMaris]

This seems weird to me.
Shouldn't this pick be given the best grade.
I mean Doyle was consistently mocked to
go in the top 2 and the Cards ended up getting
the possible best SLH pitcher at pick 5.
Instead, he says the following:

First Round (No. 5 Overall): Liam Doyle, LHP, Tennessee," Reuter said. "MLB Comp: Robbie Ray. After flashing swing-and-miss stuff at Coastal Carolina (56.1 IP, 4.15 ERA, 69 K) and Ole Miss (55.0 IP, 5.73 ERA, 84 K), Doyle joined his third team when he transferred to Tennessee where he was college baseball's biggest breakout star. Leaning heavily on a high-octane fastball that touches 100 mph and blows hitters away up the zone, he posted a 3.20 ERA, 0.99 WHIP and 164 strikeouts in 95.2 innings.

"A max-effort delivery and his lagging secondary stuff raises some legitimate reliever questions, but a fastball like his from the left side does not come along often. Grade: B. The predraft expectation was that Doyle would be gone and the Cardinals would be picking between Jamie Arnold or someone from the prep shortstop class. Instead they get the most overpowering pitcher in college baseball this year, though there is some risk here."

Isn't there risk with every pick.
The #1 pick went to a kid that's
17 years old.
I just don't understand that assessment.
I'd call it a A grade all day.

he was mocked to go #2 to b/c the Angels were picking #2, not b/c he was the #2 amateur prospect. On most draft boards he had fallen anywhere from 7-10. The Angels are notorious for the Underslot deal, which means they draft players willing to take around 75-80% of slot value. Doyle was expected to be this pick, they chose differently with Bremner.

Risk : His risk is his Floor. His Floor is Back End Reliever. The Cards are "risking" paying a potential future setup man $8million. The Cards are hoping he gives a Reward by being a Starter, and praying he's a Front of the Rotation starter.

The "B" grade is fitting, and it's not an insult.

Okay, I don't understand this slot value or slot deal?
What's going on here?
How do they determine what gets paid to whom based on where they are drafted?
Anyway, what you said makes sense now.
My initial understanding was that Doyle was mocked at 2, so I thought we got good value at 5.
And he was mocked going 2 by several sources.

He was mocked #2, b/c the Angels made it known in May they were looking for a pitcher that they could give an underslot deal to...industry wide thought this meant Doyle. He wasn't #2 ranked on any prospect boards, even though he was mocking @ #2, b/c a publication believed the Angels would take him. The #2 slot, according to MLB, is worth $10.25million. It was the belief that Doyle, being ranked lower than Anderson and Arnold on every draft board (which aren't mocks, they're prospect rankings), would sign for less with the Angels. He may have done that, but the Angels pivoted and went with a Tyler Bremner, who'll definitely sign for the 75% mininium of $10.25million...which is around $7.6-7.7million.

A team can offer above and below the bonus slot recommendation. Like I said above, Doyle was "expected" to take less. But why the Angels pivot? I'm assuming he wasn't keen to take what the Angels offered at the combine, the Angels then went with Plan B. I'm not sure if the Cards can get Doyle to sign for what the Angels offered, I doubt they'll ever know that number. This deal could be closer to the $8.13 slot value....I expect it to be around $7.5-8.2m

Does this help?

differentiating between "Mock" and "Ranking"..... Doyle "mocking" at #2, but his overall "ranking" was #8...according to MLB.com

Here is where he was ranked by all and I'd call it an A grade based on this:

The Athletic (Keith Law): Ranked Doyle as the No. 1 prospect in March 2025, though he later adjusted this to No. 2 in May 2025.

ESPN (Kiley McDaniel): Ranked Doyle as the No. 6 prospect and projected him to be selected No. 2 overall by the Los Angeles Angels in a May 2025 mock draft.

MLB Pipeline: Ranked Doyle as the No. 8 prospect, noting his rise from No. 75 earlier in the season due to his dominant performance.

FanGraphs: Listed Doyle as their No. 1 draft prospect in July 2025.

StatsFarm on X: Ranked Doyle as their No. 5 prospect ahead of the draft.

To me, it looks like Doyle was picked approximately where the “experts” thought he should be picked. He appears to play bigger than his size, has a ++ FB, average to plus secondary pitches and is a fiery competitor. Am I missing anything? How Joel Someguy grades that pick is pretty subjective. I’m happy with it, for now.

[AnExParrot]

I can't imagine being bent out of shape(or even mildly confused) over one guy's grade, particularly and especially when that one guy is a Bleacher Report guy.