Should catchers be run for

[Jatalk]

It's interesting that the two relatively fast catchers on our team are both moving out of the catcher position–– Contreras and Herrera. Burly and Arenado are two of the slowest people on the team, but we don't pinch run for them.
Note: I don't have speeds for Bernal or Crooks, but the former looks faster than the latter, and neither of the big boys is quick. But they are both better defensive catchers than what we have now, not to mention far better offense. Bernal is a stud.

Statcast running speeds for Cards (not equal to baserunning skill, of course):



Screenshot 2025-07-11 at 8.57.11 AM.png

Are you sure they are better than Pages defensively?

We were led to believe Herrera was good defensively. I won’t have confidence they are better than Pages until I see it at MLB level.

[Absolut]

Are you advocating ghost runners for catchers like they’re the fat guy in a beer league softball game?

[Bomber1]

Good morning.

Catchers are slow on the base paths. They are so critical that a team carries three and rarely uses number three till emergency.

Of all the stupid rules, running for the catcher makes much sense, although I don’t like it.

Catchers up and down squatting creates several medical syndromes that affect running. Losing a stud catcher is killer.

Is running for a catcher to extreme, or common sense.

Enjoy.

Teams carry 3 catchers? I don't think so..

Morning. Ur up early. If we can run for the catcher, we can eliminate the need for three. This adding another bat or defensive player to the 26 man roster.

I'm always up early

Who carries 3 catchers? Cards have WillyCon but he's their 1b..
Backup your claim because i contend your whole opinion is based on a fallacy, and is just ridiculous.

My claim is catchers may hurt themselves running bases. I looked but got no real finds. Based on the idea that they may hurt themselves, I thought that eliminating them would be an idea. Also add more offense with more speed on bases .

I was really comparing my idea against other imposed rules, like ghost runner. My idea makes more sense than ghost runner, or throw over limits, or batters faced, rules.

Just an idea.

Your first sentence above is true of all players not just catchers.

Scouty is not a nice person but in this case he is totally correct.

Please just stop.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Good morning.

Catchers are slow on the base paths. They are so critical that a team carries three and rarely uses number three till emergency.

Of all the stupid rules, running for the catcher makes much sense, although I don’t like it.

Catchers up and down squatting creates several medical syndromes that affect running. Losing a stud catcher is killer.

Is running for a catcher to extreme, or common sense.

Enjoy.

Teams carry 3 catchers? I don't think so..

Morning. Ur up early. If we can run for the catcher, we can eliminate the need for three. This adding another bat or defensive player to the 26 man roster.

I'm always up early

Who carries 3 catchers? Cards have WillyCon but he's their 1b..
Backup your claim because i contend your whole opinion is based on a fallacy, and is just ridiculous.

My claim is catchers may hurt themselves running bases. I looked but got no real finds. Based on the idea that they may hurt themselves, I thought that eliminating them would be an idea. Also add more offense with more speed on bases .

I was really comparing my idea against other imposed rules, like ghost runner. My idea makes more sense than ghost runner, or throw over limits, or batters faced, rules.

Just an idea.

Your first sentence above is true of all players not just catchers.

Scouty is not a nice person but in this case he is totally correct.

Please just stop.

Cmon. Trying to promote conversation. You never know what works.

[Bomber1]

sure.. expand the roster so a group of track stars do all the running..

and then add a group of players that do nothing but hit..

silliness.. either play ball or don't

this aint rec league softball

Thank you.

[Bomber1]

Good morning.

Catchers are slow on the base paths. They are so critical that a team carries three and rarely uses number three till emergency.

Of all the stupid rules, running for the catcher makes much sense, although I don’t like it.

Catchers up and down squatting creates several medical syndromes that affect running. Losing a stud catcher is killer.

Is running for a catcher to extreme, or common sense.

Enjoy.

Teams carry 3 catchers? I don't think so..

Morning. Ur up early. If we can run for the catcher, we can eliminate the need for three. This adding another bat or defensive player to the 26 man roster.

I'm always up early

Who carries 3 catchers? Cards have WillyCon but he's their 1b..
Backup your claim because i contend your whole opinion is based on a fallacy, and is just ridiculous.

My claim is catchers may hurt themselves running bases. I looked but got no real finds. Based on the idea that they may hurt themselves, I thought that eliminating them would be an idea. Also add more offense with more speed on bases .

I was really comparing my idea against other imposed rules, like ghost runner. My idea makes more sense than ghost runner, or throw over limits, or batters faced, rules.

Just an idea.

Your first sentence above is true of all players not just catchers.

Scouty is not a nice person but in this case he is totally correct.

Please just stop.

Cmon. Trying to promote conversation. You never know what works.

Please read Moose’s post.

You’re a great poster but this is not a good idea.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Good morning.

Catchers are slow on the base paths. They are so critical that a team carries three and rarely uses number three till emergency.

Of all the stupid rules, running for the catcher makes much sense, although I don’t like it.

Catchers up and down squatting creates several medical syndromes that affect running. Losing a stud catcher is killer.

Is running for a catcher to extreme, or common sense.

Enjoy.

Teams carry 3 catchers? I don't think so..

Morning. Ur up early. If we can run for the catcher, we can eliminate the need for three. This adding another bat or defensive player to the 26 man roster.

I'm always up early

Who carries 3 catchers? Cards have WillyCon but he's their 1b..
Backup your claim because i contend your whole opinion is based on a fallacy, and is just ridiculous.

My claim is catchers may hurt themselves running bases. I looked but got no real finds. Based on the idea that they may hurt themselves, I thought that eliminating them would be an idea. Also add more offense with more speed on bases .

I was really comparing my idea against other imposed rules, like ghost runner. My idea makes more sense than ghost runner, or throw over limits, or batters faced, rules.

Just an idea.

Your first sentence above is true of all players not just catchers.

Scouty is not a nice person but in this case he is totally correct.

Please just stop.

Cmon. Trying to promote conversation. You never know what works.

Please read Moose’s post.

You’re a great poster but this is not a good idea.

I read it. Thanx for the compliment. Yea, you never know what takes. I got to thinking about the newest rules and wondered what was next. So I bought of this.

Then I thought it would be easy to sub a runner, and add offense to a certain degree.

It’s a tough business-ha. Thank you for your time.

[Wattage]

Good morning.

Catchers are slow on the base paths. They are so critical that a team carries three and rarely uses number three till emergency.

Of all the stupid rules, running for the catcher makes much sense, although I don’t like it.

Catchers up and down squatting creates several medical syndromes that affect running. Losing a stud catcher is killer.

Is running for a catcher to extreme, or common sense.

Enjoy.

Not all catchers are slow, at least in their early years(im sure most are by end of careers cuz of squating). Herrera is almost average speed. Contreras actually still is above average speed.

And also theres probably some dhs that struggle running more than catchers. If we start doing more and more designated that- its a slippery slope.

[Ordinary Man]

FFS. Haven't they (bleep) the game up enough? This ain't little girls softball. At least not yet.

[ClassicO]

It's interesting that the two relatively fast catchers on our team are both moving out of the catcher position–– Contreras and Herrera. Burly and Arenado are two of the slowest people on the team, but we don't pinch run for them.
Note: I don't have speeds for Bernal or Crooks, but the former looks faster than the latter, and neither of the big boys is quick. But they are both better defensive catchers than what we have now, not to mention far better offense. Bernal is a stud.

Statcast running speeds for Cards (not equal to baserunning skill, of course):



Screenshot 2025-07-11 at 8.57.11 AM.png

Are you sure they are better than Pages defensively?

Of course not. I only know that I've watched both a lot on MiLB-TV and they are both in better shape and have great arms. Bernal threw out 34% last year and 39% this year. Crooks - threw out 33% last year and 28% this year. And they aren't statues behind the plate like Pozo and especially Pages. Crooks looks like he's gained weight since I saw him on the backfields in ST in 2023; the opposite for Bernal.

Note: Pages has thrown out 19% and 25% in his first two years. However, he was 31% in the minors. He just doesn't move laterally.
Bernal has been heralded for his defense and switch-hitting since he was 18. It's been a long time since a catcher was the #3 prospect on a team - and he should be the #2 over Mathews.

[JohnTudor1985]

Career triples:

Tim McCarver 57

Mike Trout 55

Trea Turner 43

Mookie Betts 40

Jose Altuve 32

I vote No.

[Wattage]

So offhand, can't remember many C injuries from running the bases, but maybe that's just my lack of memory on the subject.
Anyway, no, I don't think it's needed.
A C like Realmuto that can run the bases makes him better at his position than a similar defensive/offensive C's that are slower on the bases. He's a veteran and can still run very well. Many C's are slow because of how they're built and are slow from day 1.
Molina was slow, but I think he still enjoyed the challenge of running the bases. Don't take that away from them, and variations in speed help some players differentiate themselves from the competition.

As an option. You don’t have to run for your catcher if you don’t want to. Your risk.

Very few catchers run well. They have been known to clog the bases.

The idea I’m using to compare to other ideas like ghost runner. This one has merit. Ghost runners have none.

Thanx for ur time

Fulford, langoliers realmuto, haause, henry davis and connor wong all have sprint speeds above 28.0. Ft/ second this year when mlb average for all positions is 27.0

Rushing, lee, goodman, dingler, sabol, macgiver, teel, naylor, diaz, handley, and o hoppe are all above 27.0 still.
Theres 12.more that are inbetween26.6-27.0 and not that much slower than average.

Thats 29 of 72 catchers this year that can run somewhat competitively

Catchers are slower on average and the slowest playwrs in the league are usually catchers, but not all catchers are actually that slow even though weve witnessed several.

[sikeston bulldog2]

I’m getting the feeling this is a nogo- Ha. I even stated I didn’t like the idea.

But as far as new rules…..

And. If a catcher gets a hit leading off the ninth, down a run, chances are he gets run for. Most catchers.

Same principle, just done randomly throughout the game.

Affects.
- speed to the bases for the offense.
- offense can carry two catchers.

None for the defense.

[Wattage]

It's interesting that the two relatively fast catchers on our team are both moving out of the catcher position–– Contreras and Herrera. Burly and Arenado are two of the slowest people on the team, but we don't pinch run for them.
Note: I don't have speeds for Bernal or Crooks, but the former looks faster than the latter, and neither of the big boys is quick. But they are both better defensive catchers than what we have now, not to mention far better offense. Bernal is a stud.

Statcast running speeds for Cards (not equal to baserunning skill, of course):



Screenshot 2025-07-11 at 8.57.11 AM.png

Contreras actually originally wasnt a catcher and was actually a 3b when dragted originally in the minors. He even played a couple minor league games at 2b. He always been an athlete. He also played outfield quite a bit in the majors. Being originally a 3b is probably why the transition to 1b has been smooth for contreras.

[ClassicO]

It's interesting that the two relatively fast catchers on our team are both moving out of the catcher position–– Contreras and Herrera. Burly and Arenado are two of the slowest people on the team, but we don't pinch run for them.
Note: I don't have speeds for Bernal or Crooks, but the former looks faster than the latter, and neither of the big boys is quick. But they are both better defensive catchers than what we have now, not to mention far better offense. Bernal is a stud.

Statcast running speeds for Cards (not equal to baserunning skill, of course):



Screenshot 2025-07-11 at 8.57.11 AM.png

Contreras actually originally wasnt a catcher and was actually a 3b when dragted originally in the minors. He even played a couple minor league games at 2b. He always been an athlete. He also played outfield quite a bit in the majors. Being originally a 3b is probably why the transition to 1b has been smooth for contreras.

Good points

[bccardsfan]

What about the fact that there are trade offs in any baseball player and roster that demand choices from the manager? It is why I loathe the DH. For example, when you were a kid playing ball there was always that kid who could hit, but could barely play catch, let alone field anywhere. So they would stick him in RF because most kids are RH hitters and can't go oppo well at early ages. Sure enough, in a key spot in the game, the ball would find that kid you were hiding in RF. Any player you hide somewhere on D, well the ball will find him in a key spot.

When pitchers batted, if you had a guy like Gibby, or Waino, then you had an advantage on offense over the team whose pitcher was a terrible hitter.

A game or two ago, Oli had Pozo, or maybe it was Pages, hitting just ahead of VSII. When I see the slowest runner on the team followed by one of the fastest guys in baseball in the order I think of the possibility that Pozo will be on second and VSII on first and you are down two runs. Two outs and there is a play where VSII could score from first and somehow Pozo is so slow that VSII has to stop at third and then the inning ends and you don't get that run. So the closer you put your slowest and fastest guys on the team in the order, the more probability that sort of play happens in a key spot.

Pinch runner... you have to make a decision to pull that slow catcher from the game for the pinch runner. Then of course you lose the D and bat of that catcher. Decision for manager in a tight game. DH, same thing. Do you pull the pitcher who is rolling in a tight game for a pinch hitter if no DH? The DH takes that decision out of the game.

So my point is simply that there are all these trade offs about roster and lineup construction and in game decisions that make baseball "athletic chess". Rules like the DH and ghost runners, and your "designated runner" take a lot of strategy out of the game and turn it from chess into checkers. I am 68 and played a lot of ball and have watched MLB for well over 60 years. I prefer chess to checkers. My 2 cents BDog. Best I can do:)