Have you put a pencil to it

[Talkin' Baseball]

To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.

BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO

BDW will not give Bloom that much financial support right out of the gate. Bloom will need to deliver some stars to the MLB roster from the farm, before he gets that type of support.

Disagree

Dewitt knows he better or he's setting Bloom up for failure just like the BoSox ownership did and Dewitt will once again be looking at drawing way, way under 2.5M.

My not be in the $170+M range in 2026 but it d a m n well better be a whole lot more than the $130M it is this season.

I would be shocked if payroll is higher than this season. There are some things shifting, so it's hard to know for sure, but I don't see them signing anything but one year deals next offseason.

[rockondlouie]

To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.

BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO

BDW will not give Bloom that much financial support right out of the gate. Bloom will need to deliver some stars to the MLB roster from the farm, before he gets that type of support.

Disagree

Dewitt knows he better or he's setting Bloom up for failure just like the BoSox ownership did and Dewitt will once again be looking at drawing way, way under 2.5M.

My not be in the $170+M range in 2026 but it d a m n well better be a whole lot more than the $130M it is this season.

I would be shocked if payroll is higher than this season. There are some things shifting, so it's hard to know for sure, but I don't see them signing anything but one year deals next offseason.

It has to be TB.

He won't go wild ($200+M) but a market like St. Louis that had drawn 3+M for multiple decades before 2024 won't stand for a Royals, Rockies, Brewers like payroll.

Of course they have to draft & develop.

But Dewitt also has the resources to supplement w/players that the organization simply doesn't have in the pipeline.

I get it, the "potential" lockout.

But this is way, way different from the mid 90's (last work stoppage that cost them games).

Franchises are now worth BILLIONS and players have contracts worth MULTI-MILLIONS!

There's too much money to be lost this time, let's hope there isn't a lockout/strike.

And I'm okay w/Bloom only signing players to one-two year deals as long as they're smart signings that fill a need.

Either way, Dewitt knows he has to spend some money in 2026 or he's looking at a BIG decline in franchise value!

[Ozziesfan41]

To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.

BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO

+1

[Talkin' Baseball]

To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.

BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO

BDW will not give Bloom that much financial support right out of the gate. Bloom will need to deliver some stars to the MLB roster from the farm, before he gets that type of support.

Disagree

Dewitt knows he better or he's setting Bloom up for failure just like the BoSox ownership did and Dewitt will once again be looking at drawing way, way under 2.5M.

My not be in the $170+M range in 2026 but it d a m n well better be a whole lot more than the $130M it is this season.

I would be shocked if payroll is higher than this season. There are some things shifting, so it's hard to know for sure, but I don't see them signing anything but one year deals next offseason.

It has to be TB.

He won't go wild ($200+M) but a market like St. Louis that had drawn 3+M for multiple decades before 2024 won't stand for a Royals, Rockies, Brewers like payroll.

Of course they have to draft & develop.

But Dewitt also has the resources to supplement w/players that the organization simply doesn't have in the pipeline.

I get it, the "potential" lockout.

But this is way, way different from the mid 90's (last work stoppage that cost them games).

Franchises are now worth BILLIONS and players have contracts worth MULTI-MILLIONS!

There's too much money to be lost this time, let's hope there isn't a lockout/strike.

And I'm okay w/Bloom only signing players to one-two year deals as long as they're smart signings that fill a need.

Either way, Dewitt knows he has to spend some money in 2026 or he's looking at a BIG decline in franchise value!

I always enjoy talkin' baseball and I like to hear what others think about baseball topics, even if they disagree with my own. That said, they don't "have to" increase spending and I don't believe they will. My own opinion (emphasis on opinion) is that this labor showdown will be the big one. I think they will both hunker down on the salary cap issue and I don't think there will be an easy, quick fix. If an owner believes that there will be substantially new rules coming out of the CBA which may include a salary cap, or a years limit, or whatever, they will want as few long term commitments on the books as they can get. They can go into a situation where the big boys are capped out and they will be well below the cap. It would be an unusual opportunity. It also would affect the way extensions are handled. If they end up sitting out 2027, when that is done they would also have Arenado, Gray, and Contreras off the books. Zero long-term, or big dollar commitments. I don't think they will do anything this winter that interferes with that.

[Cranny]

To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.

BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO

BDW will not give Bloom that much financial support right out of the gate. Bloom will need to deliver some stars to the MLB roster from the farm, before he gets that type of support.

Disagree

Dewitt knows he better or he's setting Bloom up for failure just like the BoSox ownership did and Dewitt will once again be looking at drawing way, way under 2.5M.

My not be in the $170+M range in 2026 but it d a m n well better be a whole lot more than the $130M it is this season.

I would be shocked if payroll is higher than this season. There are some things shifting, so it's hard to know for sure, but I don't see them signing anything but one year deals next offseason.

It has to be TB.

He won't go wild ($200+M) but a market like St. Louis that had drawn 3+M for multiple decades before 2024 won't stand for a Royals, Rockies, Brewers like payroll.

Of course they have to draft & develop.

But Dewitt also has the resources to supplement w/players that the organization simply doesn't have in the pipeline.

I get it, the "potential" lockout.

But this is way, way different from the mid 90's (last work stoppage that cost them games).

Franchises are now worth BILLIONS and players have contracts worth MULTI-MILLIONS!

There's too much money to be lost this time, let's hope there isn't a lockout/strike.

And I'm okay w/Bloom only signing players to one-two year deals as long as they're smart signings that fill a need.

Either way, Dewitt knows he has to spend some money in 2026 or he's looking at a BIG decline in franchise value!

I always enjoy talkin' baseball and I like to hear what others think about baseball topics, even if they disagree with my own. That said, they don't "have to" increase spending and I don't believe they will. My own opinion (emphasis on opinion) is that this labor showdown will be the big one. I think they will both hunker down on the salary cap issue and I don't think there will be an easy, quick fix. If an owner believes that there will be substantially new rules coming out of the CBA which may include a salary cap, or a years limit, or whatever, they will want as few long term commitments on the books as they can get. They can go into a situation where the big boys are capped out and they will be well below the cap. It would be an unusual opportunity. It also would affect the way extensions are handled. If they end up sitting out 2027, when that is done they would also have Arenado, Gray, and Contreras off the books. Zero long-term, or big dollar commitments. I don't think they will do anything this winter that interferes with that.

Very good analysis.

[rockondlouie]

To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.

BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO

BDW will not give Bloom that much financial support right out of the gate. Bloom will need to deliver some stars to the MLB roster from the farm, before he gets that type of support.

Disagree

Dewitt knows he better or he's setting Bloom up for failure just like the BoSox ownership did and Dewitt will once again be looking at drawing way, way under 2.5M.

My not be in the $170+M range in 2026 but it d a m n well better be a whole lot more than the $130M it is this season.

I would be shocked if payroll is higher than this season. There are some things shifting, so it's hard to know for sure, but I don't see them signing anything but one year deals next offseason.

It has to be TB.

He won't go wild ($200+M) but a market like St. Louis that had drawn 3+M for multiple decades before 2024 won't stand for a Royals, Rockies, Brewers like payroll.

Of course they have to draft & develop.

But Dewitt also has the resources to supplement w/players that the organization simply doesn't have in the pipeline.

I get it, the "potential" lockout.

But this is way, way different from the mid 90's (last work stoppage that cost them games).

Franchises are now worth BILLIONS and players have contracts worth MULTI-MILLIONS!

There's too much money to be lost this time, let's hope there isn't a lockout/strike.

And I'm okay w/Bloom only signing players to one-two year deals as long as they're smart signings that fill a need.

Either way, Dewitt knows he has to spend some money in 2026 or he's looking at a BIG decline in franchise value!

I always enjoy talkin' baseball and I like to hear what others think about baseball topics, even if they disagree with my own. That said, they don't "have to" increase spending and I don't believe they will. My own opinion (emphasis on opinion) is that this labor showdown will be the big one. I think they will both hunker down on the salary cap issue and I don't think there will be an easy, quick fix. If an owner believes that there will be substantially new rules coming out of the CBA which may include a salary cap, or a years limit, or whatever, they will want as few long term commitments on the books as they can get. They can go into a situation where the big boys are capped out and they will be well below the cap. It would be an unusual opportunity. It also would affect the way extensions are handled. If they end up sitting out 2027, when that is done they would also have Arenado, Gray, and Contreras off the books. Zero long-term, or big dollar commitments. I don't think they will do anything this winter that interferes with that.

Same here, always enjoy civil baseball discussions and respect all opinions.

But (IMO) he does have to spend if he wants a winning team that leads him back to 3M in attendance.

Dewitt's $2.5B franchise valuation was based hugely on that 3+M each and every season.

Without it, he's looking at (potentially) a decline in the hundreds of millions!

I'm really interested to see what Forbes values them at w/a 2.2-2.5M attendance.

I don't ever see the MLBPA agreeing to a salary cap, that's been taboo for them since the days of Marvin Miller.

I can, however, see a cap on deferred money (a max of say $3M/yr deferred for the length of the contract).

Something that prevents a team like the Dodgers from using that payroll trick to sign S. Ohtani.

But again, I don't see any lockout/strike that cost them more than a handful of games.

Players vs players in the mid 1990's have made enough money to withstand a full year if needed and owners know it.

Too much $$$$ to lose on BOTH sides for them to do that.

JMO

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

Bloom needs the freedom and intestinal fortitude to do a Herzog style overhaul to the roster. Make it 1980-81 all over again!

Agreed

[CCard]

To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.

1. The catching is adequate. How many teams have star catchers?
2. Replacement of Mikolas and Fedde with better options is a given.
3. You can always use a good upgrade or two in the pen, but the Cards bullpen isn't awful.
4. It's either Arenado or Gorman if Arenado is moved. Maybe, just maybe Wetherholt could come up and Donovan could shift to third. Or he could man third maybe. but I don't think Arenado is going anywhere.
5. Walker isn't going anywhere. He could be a superstar. Scott is in CF for a long time probably. Noot is a conundrum. Lot of promise but so far?
6. They've got options. Herrera, Pozo, or some minor league call up. But if they were to go out and sign a bench bat that would be okay.

This team really needs top tier pitching that doesn't put them in a hole every third or fourth game out.

[Talkin' Baseball]

To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.

BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO

BDW will not give Bloom that much financial support right out of the gate. Bloom will need to deliver some stars to the MLB roster from the farm, before he gets that type of support.

Disagree

Dewitt knows he better or he's setting Bloom up for failure just like the BoSox ownership did and Dewitt will once again be looking at drawing way, way under 2.5M.

My not be in the $170+M range in 2026 but it d a m n well better be a whole lot more than the $130M it is this season.

I would be shocked if payroll is higher than this season. There are some things shifting, so it's hard to know for sure, but I don't see them signing anything but one year deals next offseason.

It has to be TB.

He won't go wild ($200+M) but a market like St. Louis that had drawn 3+M for multiple decades before 2024 won't stand for a Royals, Rockies, Brewers like payroll.

Of course they have to draft & develop.

But Dewitt also has the resources to supplement w/players that the organization simply doesn't have in the pipeline.

I get it, the "potential" lockout.

But this is way, way different from the mid 90's (last work stoppage that cost them games).

Franchises are now worth BILLIONS and players have contracts worth MULTI-MILLIONS!

There's too much money to be lost this time, let's hope there isn't a lockout/strike.

And I'm okay w/Bloom only signing players to one-two year deals as long as they're smart signings that fill a need.

Either way, Dewitt knows he has to spend some money in 2026 or he's looking at a BIG decline in franchise value!

I always enjoy talkin' baseball and I like to hear what others think about baseball topics, even if they disagree with my own. That said, they don't "have to" increase spending and I don't believe they will. My own opinion (emphasis on opinion) is that this labor showdown will be the big one. I think they will both hunker down on the salary cap issue and I don't think there will be an easy, quick fix. If an owner believes that there will be substantially new rules coming out of the CBA which may include a salary cap, or a years limit, or whatever, they will want as few long term commitments on the books as they can get. They can go into a situation where the big boys are capped out and they will be well below the cap. It would be an unusual opportunity. It also would affect the way extensions are handled. If they end up sitting out 2027, when that is done they would also have Arenado, Gray, and Contreras off the books. Zero long-term, or big dollar commitments. I don't think they will do anything this winter that interferes with that.

Same here, always enjoy civil baseball discussions and respect all opinions.

But (IMO) he does have to spend if he wants a winning team that leads him back to 3M in attendance.

Dewitt's $2.5B franchise valuation was based hugely on that 3+M each and every season.

Without it, he's looking at (potentially) a decline in the hundreds of millions!

I'm really interested to see what Forbes values them at w/a 2.2-2.5M attendance.

I don't ever see the MLBPA agreeing to a salary cap, that's been taboo for them since the days of Marvin Miller.

I can, however, see a cap on deferred money (a max of say $3M/yr deferred for the length of the contract).

Something that prevents a team like the Dodgers from using that payroll trick to sign S. Ohtani.

But again, I don't see any lockout/strike that cost them more than a handful of games.

Players vs players in the mid 1990's have made enough money to withstand a full year if needed and owners know it.

Too much $$$$ to lose on BOTH sides for them to do that.

JMO

I don't really see the value of the franchise being an issue. I haven't seen any examples of franchises in any sport declining in value. It may increase in value more slowly, but the value seems to be a one way street. Up. What I can see being an issue is the operating revenue. I do think the attendance level is critical for the Cardinals and their cash flow and operating budget. The attendance matters. One thing billionaires do better than the rest of us is, they play the long game. They will take the hit next year rather than slapping a band aid on the problem. The will go for the big fix to their problem. I agree with you that the players are vehemently opposed to a cap- that's why I think this will be bloody.

[rockondlouie]

To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.

BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO

BDW will not give Bloom that much financial support right out of the gate. Bloom will need to deliver some stars to the MLB roster from the farm, before he gets that type of support.

Disagree

Dewitt knows he better or he's setting Bloom up for failure just like the BoSox ownership did and Dewitt will once again be looking at drawing way, way under 2.5M.

My not be in the $170+M range in 2026 but it d a m n well better be a whole lot more than the $130M it is this season.

I would be shocked if payroll is higher than this season. There are some things shifting, so it's hard to know for sure, but I don't see them signing anything but one year deals next offseason.

It has to be TB.

He won't go wild ($200+M) but a market like St. Louis that had drawn 3+M for multiple decades before 2024 won't stand for a Royals, Rockies, Brewers like payroll.

Of course they have to draft & develop.

But Dewitt also has the resources to supplement w/players that the organization simply doesn't have in the pipeline.

I get it, the "potential" lockout.

But this is way, way different from the mid 90's (last work stoppage that cost them games).

Franchises are now worth BILLIONS and players have contracts worth MULTI-MILLIONS!

There's too much money to be lost this time, let's hope there isn't a lockout/strike.

And I'm okay w/Bloom only signing players to one-two year deals as long as they're smart signings that fill a need.

Either way, Dewitt knows he has to spend some money in 2026 or he's looking at a BIG decline in franchise value!

I always enjoy talkin' baseball and I like to hear what others think about baseball topics, even if they disagree with my own. That said, they don't "have to" increase spending and I don't believe they will. My own opinion (emphasis on opinion) is that this labor showdown will be the big one. I think they will both hunker down on the salary cap issue and I don't think there will be an easy, quick fix. If an owner believes that there will be substantially new rules coming out of the CBA which may include a salary cap, or a years limit, or whatever, they will want as few long term commitments on the books as they can get. They can go into a situation where the big boys are capped out and they will be well below the cap. It would be an unusual opportunity. It also would affect the way extensions are handled. If they end up sitting out 2027, when that is done they would also have Arenado, Gray, and Contreras off the books. Zero long-term, or big dollar commitments. I don't think they will do anything this winter that interferes with that.

Same here, always enjoy civil baseball discussions and respect all opinions.

But (IMO) he does have to spend if he wants a winning team that leads him back to 3M in attendance.

Dewitt's $2.5B franchise valuation was based hugely on that 3+M each and every season.

Without it, he's looking at (potentially) a decline in the hundreds of millions!

I'm really interested to see what Forbes values them at w/a 2.2-2.5M attendance.

I don't ever see the MLBPA agreeing to a salary cap, that's been taboo for them since the days of Marvin Miller.

I can, however, see a cap on deferred money (a max of say $3M/yr deferred for the length of the contract).

Something that prevents a team like the Dodgers from using that payroll trick to sign S. Ohtani.

But again, I don't see any lockout/strike that cost them more than a handful of games.

Players vs players in the mid 1990's have made enough money to withstand a full year if needed and owners know it.

Too much $$$$ to lose on BOTH sides for them to do that.

JMO

I don't really see the value of the franchise being an issue. I haven't seen any examples of franchises in any sport declining in value. It may increase in value more slowly, but the value seems to be a one way street. Up. What I can see being an issue is the operating revenue. I do think the attendance level is critical for the Cardinals and their cash flow and operating budget. The attendance matters. One thing billionaires do better than the rest of us is, they play the long game. They will take the hit next year rather than slapping a band aid on the problem. The will go for the big fix to their problem. I agree with you that the players are vehemently opposed to a cap- that's why I think this will be bloody.

Oh that's the Golden Egg, capital appreciation and why the majority of teams are bought.

A team like the Cardinals, in a mid level market, would have their valuation based on revenues that were dependent on their upper MLB level attendance.

There's no way the team is worth the same $2.5B when it was drawing 3+M a year for decades if it's seeing a drop of 500,000+ in attendance along w/a worse local TV deal.

We also have to remember BDWjr is an old man, he can't play that "long game" much longer if he wants another championship.

He may not take it back to $180M in 2026 but he has to increase it well past this years level.

JMO

[kyace]

If Gray stays healthy the rest of the season Cards should try to see if they can extend him though 2027. Sell him on the role as mentor to the young pitchers coming up. At least this will help with some veteran leadership at a not too costly or long term commitment.

[Futuregm2]

If Gray stays healthy the rest of the season Cards should try to see if they can extend him though 2027. Sell him on the role as mentor to the young pitchers coming up. At least this will help with some veteran leadership at a not too costly or long term commitment.

He is signed through 2027, the Cardinals have a team option for 2027 for $30 million or a buyout for $5 million.

[Cranny]

To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.

BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO

BDW will not give Bloom that much financial support right out of the gate. Bloom will need to deliver some stars to the MLB roster from the farm, before he gets that type of support.

Disagree

Dewitt knows he better or he's setting Bloom up for failure just like the BoSox ownership did and Dewitt will once again be looking at drawing way, way under 2.5M.

My not be in the $170+M range in 2026 but it d a m n well better be a whole lot more than the $130M it is this season.

I would be shocked if payroll is higher than this season. There are some things shifting, so it's hard to know for sure, but I don't see them signing anything but one year deals next offseason.

It has to be TB.

He won't go wild ($200+M) but a market like St. Louis that had drawn 3+M for multiple decades before 2024 won't stand for a Royals, Rockies, Brewers like payroll.

Of course they have to draft & develop.

But Dewitt also has the resources to supplement w/players that the organization simply doesn't have in the pipeline.

I get it, the "potential" lockout.

But this is way, way different from the mid 90's (last work stoppage that cost them games).

Franchises are now worth BILLIONS and players have contracts worth MULTI-MILLIONS!

There's too much money to be lost this time, let's hope there isn't a lockout/strike.

And I'm okay w/Bloom only signing players to one-two year deals as long as they're smart signings that fill a need.

Either way, Dewitt knows he has to spend some money in 2026 or he's looking at a BIG decline in franchise value!

I always enjoy talkin' baseball and I like to hear what others think about baseball topics, even if they disagree with my own. That said, they don't "have to" increase spending and I don't believe they will. My own opinion (emphasis on opinion) is that this labor showdown will be the big one. I think they will both hunker down on the salary cap issue and I don't think there will be an easy, quick fix. If an owner believes that there will be substantially new rules coming out of the CBA which may include a salary cap, or a years limit, or whatever, they will want as few long term commitments on the books as they can get. They can go into a situation where the big boys are capped out and they will be well below the cap. It would be an unusual opportunity. It also would affect the way extensions are handled. If they end up sitting out 2027, when that is done they would also have Arenado, Gray, and Contreras off the books. Zero long-term, or big dollar commitments. I don't think they will do anything this winter that interferes with that.

Same here, always enjoy civil baseball discussions and respect all opinions.

But (IMO) he does have to spend if he wants a winning team that leads him back to 3M in attendance.

Dewitt's $2.5B franchise valuation was based hugely on that 3+M each and every season.

Without it, he's looking at (potentially) a decline in the hundreds of millions!

I'm really interested to see what Forbes values them at w/a 2.2-2.5M attendance.

I don't ever see the MLBPA agreeing to a salary cap, that's been taboo for them since the days of Marvin Miller.

I can, however, see a cap on deferred money (a max of say $3M/yr deferred for the length of the contract).

Something that prevents a team like the Dodgers from using that payroll trick to sign S. Ohtani.

But again, I don't see any lockout/strike that cost them more than a handful of games.

Players vs players in the mid 1990's have made enough money to withstand a full year if needed and owners know it.

Too much $$$$ to lose on BOTH sides for them to do that.

JMO

I don't really see the value of the franchise being an issue. I haven't seen any examples of franchises in any sport declining in value. It may increase in value more slowly, but the value seems to be a one way street. Up. What I can see being an issue is the operating revenue. I do think the attendance level is critical for the Cardinals and their cash flow and operating budget. The attendance matters. One thing billionaires do better than the rest of us is, they play the long game. They will take the hit next year rather than slapping a band aid on the problem. The will go for the big fix to their problem. I agree with you that the players are vehemently opposed to a cap- that's why I think this will be bloody.

Oh that's the Golden Egg, capital appreciation and why the majority of teams are bought.

A team like the Cardinals, in a mid level market, would have their valuation based on revenues that were dependent on their upper MLB level attendance.

There's no way the team is worth the same $2.5B when it was drawing 3+M a year for decades if it's seeing a drop of 500,000+ in attendance along w/a worse local TV deal.

We also have to remember BDWjr is an old man, he can't play that "long game" much longer if he wants another championship.

He may not take it back to $180M in 2026 but he has to increase it well past this years level.

JMO

He doesn’t need another championship. He’s had the experience and pleasure of several.

[bccardsfan]

To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.

BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO

BDW will not give Bloom that much financial support right out of the gate. Bloom will need to deliver some stars to the MLB roster from the farm, before he gets that type of support.

Disagree

Dewitt knows he better or he's setting Bloom up for failure just like the BoSox ownership did and Dewitt will once again be looking at drawing way, way under 2.5M.

My not be in the $170+M range in 2026 but it d a m n well better be a whole lot more than the $130M it is this season.

I would be shocked if payroll is higher than this season. There are some things shifting, so it's hard to know for sure, but I don't see them signing anything but one year deals next offseason.

It has to be TB.

He won't go wild ($200+M) but a market like St. Louis that had drawn 3+M for multiple decades before 2024 won't stand for a Royals, Rockies, Brewers like payroll.

Of course they have to draft & develop.

But Dewitt also has the resources to supplement w/players that the organization simply doesn't have in the pipeline.

I get it, the "potential" lockout.

But this is way, way different from the mid 90's (last work stoppage that cost them games).

Franchises are now worth BILLIONS and players have contracts worth MULTI-MILLIONS!

There's too much money to be lost this time, let's hope there isn't a lockout/strike.

And I'm okay w/Bloom only signing players to one-two year deals as long as they're smart signings that fill a need.

Either way, Dewitt knows he has to spend some money in 2026 or he's looking at a BIG decline in franchise value!

I always enjoy talkin' baseball and I like to hear what others think about baseball topics, even if they disagree with my own. That said, they don't "have to" increase spending and I don't believe they will. My own opinion (emphasis on opinion) is that this labor showdown will be the big one. I think they will both hunker down on the salary cap issue and I don't think there will be an easy, quick fix. If an owner believes that there will be substantially new rules coming out of the CBA which may include a salary cap, or a years limit, or whatever, they will want as few long term commitments on the books as they can get. They can go into a situation where the big boys are capped out and they will be well below the cap. It would be an unusual opportunity. It also would affect the way extensions are handled. If they end up sitting out 2027, when that is done they would also have Arenado, Gray, and Contreras off the books. Zero long-term, or big dollar commitments. I don't think they will do anything this winter that interferes with that.

Same here, always enjoy civil baseball discussions and respect all opinions.

But (IMO) he does have to spend if he wants a winning team that leads him back to 3M in attendance.

Dewitt's $2.5B franchise valuation was based hugely on that 3+M each and every season.

Without it, he's looking at (potentially) a decline in the hundreds of millions!

I'm really interested to see what Forbes values them at w/a 2.2-2.5M attendance.

I don't ever see the MLBPA agreeing to a salary cap, that's been taboo for them since the days of Marvin Miller.

I can, however, see a cap on deferred money (a max of say $3M/yr deferred for the length of the contract).

Something that prevents a team like the Dodgers from using that payroll trick to sign S. Ohtani.

But again, I don't see any lockout/strike that cost them more than a handful of games.

Players vs players in the mid 1990's have made enough money to withstand a full year if needed and owners know it.

Too much $$$$ to lose on BOTH sides for them to do that.

JMO

I don't really see the value of the franchise being an issue. I haven't seen any examples of franchises in any sport declining in value. It may increase in value more slowly, but the value seems to be a one way street. Up. What I can see being an issue is the operating revenue. I do think the attendance level is critical for the Cardinals and their cash flow and operating budget. The attendance matters. One thing billionaires do better than the rest of us is, they play the long game. They will take the hit next year rather than slapping a band aid on the problem. The will go for the big fix to their problem. I agree with you that the players are vehemently opposed to a cap- that's why I think this will be bloody.

Oh that's the Golden Egg, capital appreciation and why the majority of teams are bought.

A team like the Cardinals, in a mid level market, would have their valuation based on revenues that were dependent on their upper MLB level attendance.

There's no way the team is worth the same $2.5B when it was drawing 3+M a year for decades if it's seeing a drop of 500,000+ in attendance along w/a worse local TV deal.

We also have to remember BDWjr is an old man, he can't play that "long game" much longer if he wants another championship.

He may not take it back to $180M in 2026 but he has to increase it well past this years level.

JMO

He doesn’t need another championship. He’s had the experience and pleasure of several.

If the ultimate goal of ownership is NOT to seek another championship, then they should take their profit and sell the team to a group whose goal IS to win the WS.

[rockondlouie]

To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.

BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO

BDW will not give Bloom that much financial support right out of the gate. Bloom will need to deliver some stars to the MLB roster from the farm, before he gets that type of support.

Disagree

Dewitt knows he better or he's setting Bloom up for failure just like the BoSox ownership did and Dewitt will once again be looking at drawing way, way under 2.5M.

My not be in the $170+M range in 2026 but it d a m n well better be a whole lot more than the $130M it is this season.

I would be shocked if payroll is higher than this season. There are some things shifting, so it's hard to know for sure, but I don't see them signing anything but one year deals next offseason.

It has to be TB.

He won't go wild ($200+M) but a market like St. Louis that had drawn 3+M for multiple decades before 2024 won't stand for a Royals, Rockies, Brewers like payroll.

Of course they have to draft & develop.

But Dewitt also has the resources to supplement w/players that the organization simply doesn't have in the pipeline.

I get it, the "potential" lockout.

But this is way, way different from the mid 90's (last work stoppage that cost them games).

Franchises are now worth BILLIONS and players have contracts worth MULTI-MILLIONS!

There's too much money to be lost this time, let's hope there isn't a lockout/strike.

And I'm okay w/Bloom only signing players to one-two year deals as long as they're smart signings that fill a need.

Either way, Dewitt knows he has to spend some money in 2026 or he's looking at a BIG decline in franchise value!

I always enjoy talkin' baseball and I like to hear what others think about baseball topics, even if they disagree with my own. That said, they don't "have to" increase spending and I don't believe they will. My own opinion (emphasis on opinion) is that this labor showdown will be the big one. I think they will both hunker down on the salary cap issue and I don't think there will be an easy, quick fix. If an owner believes that there will be substantially new rules coming out of the CBA which may include a salary cap, or a years limit, or whatever, they will want as few long term commitments on the books as they can get. They can go into a situation where the big boys are capped out and they will be well below the cap. It would be an unusual opportunity. It also would affect the way extensions are handled. If they end up sitting out 2027, when that is done they would also have Arenado, Gray, and Contreras off the books. Zero long-term, or big dollar commitments. I don't think they will do anything this winter that interferes with that.

Same here, always enjoy civil baseball discussions and respect all opinions.

But (IMO) he does have to spend if he wants a winning team that leads him back to 3M in attendance.

Dewitt's $2.5B franchise valuation was based hugely on that 3+M each and every season.

Without it, he's looking at (potentially) a decline in the hundreds of millions!

I'm really interested to see what Forbes values them at w/a 2.2-2.5M attendance.

I don't ever see the MLBPA agreeing to a salary cap, that's been taboo for them since the days of Marvin Miller.

I can, however, see a cap on deferred money (a max of say $3M/yr deferred for the length of the contract).

Something that prevents a team like the Dodgers from using that payroll trick to sign S. Ohtani.

But again, I don't see any lockout/strike that cost them more than a handful of games.

Players vs players in the mid 1990's have made enough money to withstand a full year if needed and owners know it.

Too much $$$$ to lose on BOTH sides for them to do that.

JMO

I don't really see the value of the franchise being an issue. I haven't seen any examples of franchises in any sport declining in value. It may increase in value more slowly, but the value seems to be a one way street. Up. What I can see being an issue is the operating revenue. I do think the attendance level is critical for the Cardinals and their cash flow and operating budget. The attendance matters. One thing billionaires do better than the rest of us is, they play the long game. They will take the hit next year rather than slapping a band aid on the problem. The will go for the big fix to their problem. I agree with you that the players are vehemently opposed to a cap- that's why I think this will be bloody.

Oh that's the Golden Egg, capital appreciation and why the majority of teams are bought.

A team like the Cardinals, in a mid level market, would have their valuation based on revenues that were dependent on their upper MLB level attendance.

There's no way the team is worth the same $2.5B when it was drawing 3+M a year for decades if it's seeing a drop of 500,000+ in attendance along w/a worse local TV deal.

We also have to remember BDWjr is an old man, he can't play that "long game" much longer if he wants another championship.

He may not take it back to $180M in 2026 but he has to increase it well past this years level.

JMO

He doesn’t need another championship. He’s had the experience and pleasure of several.

The SELL!