Have you put a pencil to it

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Jatalk
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Have you put a pencil to it

Post by Jatalk »

To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.
rockondlouie
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Re: Have you put a pencil to it

Post by rockondlouie »

Jatalk wrote: 10 Jul 2025 08:54 am To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?


Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.
BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO
Futuregm2
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Re: Have you put a pencil to it

Post by Futuregm2 »

Jatalk wrote: 10 Jul 2025 08:54 am To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.
It’s not that overwhelming.

Catcher: Crooks/Bernal. Bernal might be second half of 2026
SP: McGreevy/Mathews/Maybe a trade or FA signing
BP: Those can be pieced together throughout the offseason/season
OF: Wetherholt will be 2B in 2026 probably moving Donovan to the OF if he’s not traded. I could see Bloom trading him though.

C- Crooks/Bernal/Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Wetherholt
3B- Arenado/Gorman
SS- Winn
LF- Donovan *in pencil*
CF-
RF-
DH- Herrera/Burleson

How I see it right now. The OF is wide open. I could see them bringing in a RH bat that can play CF so VS2 mostly plays vs RHP and some easier LHP. Bloom will be tasked with depth to trade from and figuring out an OF problem that Mozeliak hasn’t been able to solve for years.
bccardsfan
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Re: Have you put a pencil to it

Post by bccardsfan »

Futuregm2 wrote: 10 Jul 2025 09:09 am
Jatalk wrote: 10 Jul 2025 08:54 am To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.
It’s not that overwhelming.

Catcher: Crooks/Bernal. Bernal might be second half of 2026
SP: McGreevy/Mathews/Maybe a trade or FA signing
BP: Those can be pieced together throughout the offseason/season
OF: Wetherholt will be 2B in 2026 probably moving Donovan to the OF if he’s not traded. I could see Bloom trading him though.

C- Crooks/Bernal/Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Wetherholt
3B- Arenado/Gorman
SS- Winn
LF- Donovan *in pencil*
CF-
RF-
DH- Herrera/Burleson

How I see it right now. The OF is wide open. I could see them bringing in a RH bat that can play CF so VS2 mostly plays vs RHP and some easier LHP. Bloom will be tasked with depth to trade from and figuring out an OF problem that Mozeliak hasn’t been able to solve for years.
I see the OF as wide open as well. Walker and VS2 and Noot are not guaranteed to be starting on opening day. We need a corner OFer who can field reasonably well and put up an OPS north of .800. We have plenty of IF options, especially with JJ on the horizon. We need starting pitching and OFers. I am sure Bloom et al. sees the same thing. There are a couple of young OFers who may pan out in the minors, but they are at least another season away. Will ownership give Bloom a decent budget? Will they let him choose a manager? We shall see...
todd-parker
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Re: Have you put a pencil to it

Post by todd-parker »

rockondlouie wrote: 10 Jul 2025 09:02 am
Jatalk wrote: 10 Jul 2025 08:54 am To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?


Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.
BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO
Milwaukee seems to be doing okay with a smaller payroll.
BrockFloodMaris
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Re: Have you put a pencil to it

Post by BrockFloodMaris »

rockondlouie wrote: 10 Jul 2025 09:02 am
Jatalk wrote: 10 Jul 2025 08:54 am To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?


Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.
BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO
BDW will not give Bloom that much financial support right out of the gate. Bloom will need to deliver some stars to the MLB roster from the farm, before he gets that type of support.
12xu
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Re: Have you put a pencil to it

Post by 12xu »

The team has to acquire at least one outstanding starting pitcher. Gray and Liberatore should be strong next year, but I have very little faith in Pallante. Mathews, Roby, and McGreevy are still questionable at the moment, but two of them need to emerge to challenge for a starting spot in the rotation come spring '26. If they cannot, another SP will need to be obtained thru trade or FA. FA starting pitchers this coming off season who I would target: Lefties - Framber Valdez, Ranger Suarez RIghties - Zac Gallen, Merrill Kelly.

The team has many IF options, but a RH middle of the order OF bat is needed badly. There are not many FA OF that meet that description available this coming winter, so a trade is probably going to be necessary.
Cardinals4Life
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Re: Have you put a pencil to it

Post by Cardinals4Life »

BrockFloodMaris wrote: 10 Jul 2025 09:58 am
rockondlouie wrote: 10 Jul 2025 09:02 am
Jatalk wrote: 10 Jul 2025 08:54 am To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?


Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.
BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO
BDW will not give Bloom that much financial support right out of the gate. Bloom will need to deliver some stars to the MLB roster from the farm, before he gets that type of support.
Then we will never be successful. Period.
imadangman
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Re: Have you put a pencil to it

Post by imadangman »

When we were playing good in May, we were getting overachievement out of Mikolas and Fedde. That's fine, but that's the type of performances you're going to need to replace. I see Mathews and Co. on the way, but I'm not convinced we have enough in hand to fill out a rotation for 2026. There's going to have to be additions.

On the lineup I feel good about Wetherholt and Baez joining the picture, replacing what we might lose from a declining Contreras/Arenado. Hopefully Herrera stays healthier in the future. Jose Martinez 2.0?? Couple solid hitters there I think it looks good.
imadangman
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Re: Have you put a pencil to it

Post by imadangman »

12xu wrote: 10 Jul 2025 09:59 am The team has to acquire at least one outstanding starting pitcher. Gray and Liberatore should be strong next year, but I have very little faith in Pallante. Mathews, Roby, and McGreevy are still questionable at the moment, but two of them need to emerge to challenge for a starting spot in the rotation come spring '26. If they cannot, another SP will need to be obtained thru trade or FA. FA starting pitchers this coming off season who I would target: Lefties - Framber Valdez, Ranger Suarez RIghties - Zac Gallen, Merrill Kelly.

The team has many IF options, but a RH middle of the order OF bat is needed badly. There are not many FA OF that meet that description available this coming winter, so a trade is probably going to be necessary.
Merrill Kelly, the definition of a late bloomer. Age 30 in his rookie season. Now 36 and has posted solid numbers consistently since about 2022.

Maybe at 36, he is a good candidate for a 3-year deal like we gave Gray. That seems like a nice sweetspot, rather than 6+ year deals for SPs.

Since he's a RH that fits better than adding another lefty. Let's hope it'll be Liberatore and Mathews as our twin 6-5 lefties.
JuanAgosto
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Re: Have you put a pencil to it

Post by JuanAgosto »

Bloom needs the freedom and intestinal fortitude to do a Herzog style overhaul to the roster. Make it 1980-81 all over again!
Cardinals4Life
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Re: Have you put a pencil to it

Post by Cardinals4Life »

Jatalk wrote: 10 Jul 2025 08:54 am To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.

C - Crooks, Pages, Pozo (Bernal close behind). Herrera still an option??
*I think we are okay here.

1B - Contreras

2B - Wetherholt, Donovan, Saggese

SS - Winn

3B - Need an answer here. Don't think Gorman is the guy. Maybe Nado stays.

CF - VSII
RF - Need someone here
LF - Donovan?
*Could we move Herrera out here??

SP - Gray, Liberatore, McGreevy.
*Need a true ace and perhaps Mathews or Pallante to fill #5 spot.

Pen - Will need a closer if Hels leaves.
Will have to piece the rest together.

Agree, some major changes need to occur.
I'd like to see the roster purged of: Fedde, Mikolas, Nootbaar, the 26th man bottom feeders (Fermin, Baker, Siani, Hampton, etc.), and possibly Gorman and Walker (although I'm not 100% sold on ditching those 2 yet).

I agree on targeting a Framber Valdez to lead the rotation. I'd also go big and get Kyle Tucker (I knkw ot won't happen!). What would Kyle Stowers take to acquire?? If we get rid of Arenado, I'd sign a short term deal with a guy like Eugenio Suarez to man 3B for a couple years - provides vet power in the lineup.

Valdez
Gray
Liberatore
McGreevy
Mathews/Pallante

LF - Herrera
CF - Scott II
RF - Stowers
3B - Suarez
SS - Winn
2B - Wetherholt
1B - Contreras
C - Crooks/Pages
DH - Burleson
*Donovan as the utility guy who starts every day, but bounces around between LF/2B/3B/1B/DH.

Bench - Saggese, Pages, Church
BrockFloodMaris
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Re: Have you put a pencil to it

Post by BrockFloodMaris »

Cardinals4Life wrote: 10 Jul 2025 10:10 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: 10 Jul 2025 09:58 am
rockondlouie wrote: 10 Jul 2025 09:02 am
Jatalk wrote: 10 Jul 2025 08:54 am To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?


Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.
BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO
BDW will not give Bloom that much financial support right out of the gate. Bloom will need to deliver some stars to the MLB roster from the farm, before he gets that type of support.
Then we will never be successful. Period.
"Never"? Come on. You don't mean "never". Its just gonna take a while.
Cardinals4Life
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Re: Have you put a pencil to it

Post by Cardinals4Life »

BrockFloodMaris wrote: 10 Jul 2025 10:36 am
Cardinals4Life wrote: 10 Jul 2025 10:10 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: 10 Jul 2025 09:58 am
rockondlouie wrote: 10 Jul 2025 09:02 am
Jatalk wrote: 10 Jul 2025 08:54 am To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?


Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.
BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO
BDW will not give Bloom that much financial support right out of the gate. Bloom will need to deliver some stars to the MLB roster from the farm, before he gets that type of support.
Then we will never be successful. Period.
"Never"? Come on. You don't mean "never". Its just gonna take a while.
Nope, I mean never. Going to have to spend up to the 200M threshold to find success again. It cannot all come from cheap, in house products. It just can't.
rockondlouie
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Re: Have you put a pencil to it

Post by rockondlouie »

BrockFloodMaris wrote: 10 Jul 2025 09:58 am
rockondlouie wrote: 10 Jul 2025 09:02 am
Jatalk wrote: 10 Jul 2025 08:54 am To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?


Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.
BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO
BDW will not give Bloom that much financial support right out of the gate. Bloom will need to deliver some stars to the MLB roster from the farm, before he gets that type of support.
Disagree

Dewitt knows he better or he's setting Bloom up for failure just like the BoSox ownership did and Dewitt will once again be looking at drawing way, way under 2.5M.

My not be in the $170+M range in 2026 but it d a m n well better be a whole lot more than the $130M it is this season.
rockondlouie
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Re: Have you put a pencil to it

Post by rockondlouie »

todd-parker wrote: 10 Jul 2025 09:50 am
rockondlouie wrote: 10 Jul 2025 09:02 am
Jatalk wrote: 10 Jul 2025 08:54 am To see what this team really needs to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027. Consider this:

Need better catching not only defensively but hopefully with a bat.

-BERNAL?


Need two starting pitchers even if you bring McG up

-Agreed. We'd like to think "Q" is one of them.

Need to fortify bullpen with a couple of arms including a closer

-BIG HOLE once R. Helsley is gone. I've been saying for going on two years now CONVERT T. HENCE to the close role.

Probably need a third baseman with power. Still not sure about Gorman.

-Unless he really turns it around, Gorman isn't the answer.

Need two outfielders assuming Walker gone and Donovan playing second. Maybe Sagesse at 2nd, Donovan in outfield.

-JJW will be the 2nd baseman. Donny will be in LF.

Need a good right hander off the bench. Overall depth is a problem.

Sure you can slot in prospects. But to be truly competitive there is a lot to do. Sort of overwhelming.
BDWJr has to give C. Bloom the same $175-180M payroll he gave Mo, NO WAY all these holes can filled from within.

JMO
Milwaukee seems to be doing okay with a smaller payroll.
And they've won how many playoff games the last six years?

(answer: their 2 - 10)
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