Mo is Dewitt’s puppet

[desertrat23]

Not sifting through all the arguing about who's a bigger failure - owner or GM/POBO - to see if anyone brought this up...

The 2005 end of year farm rankings had the Cardinals nowhere near top-5. Same in '06 when they actually won the WS.

Same for end of 2010/2011.

Start with a flawed premise, end up with a flawed conclusion.

Know why? They used prospects to aquire stars. Edmonds Rolen etc all were acquired through trades. However even dealing their top prospects for several years they were still between 12-15 farm rankings with the leftovers. The actual rank doesn’t account for all the players they traded to win. To be honest that’s what this team needs to do. Wetherholt will be at 2B soon and Donovan to OF. So Gorman Walker Nootbar Hererra Segesse annd Burleson are all fighting for RF and DH. They need to package 2 with Helsley and get a RH OF with legit power.

Of that list (Helsley excluded), only Herrera and maybe Burleson would bring back anything useful.

[Youboughtit]

Not sifting through all the arguing about who's a bigger failure - owner or GM/POBO - to see if anyone brought this up...

The 2005 end of year farm rankings had the Cardinals nowhere near top-5. Same in '06 when they actually won the WS.

Same for end of 2010/2011.

Start with a flawed premise, end up with a flawed conclusion.

Know why? They used prospects to aquire stars. Edmonds Rolen etc all were acquired through trades. However even dealing their top prospects for several years they were still between 12-15 farm rankings with the leftovers. The actual rank doesn’t account for all the players they traded to win. To be honest that’s what this team needs to do. Wetherholt will be at 2B soon and Donovan to OF. So Gorman Walker Nootbar Hererra Segesse annd Burleson are all fighting for RF and DH. They need to package 2 with Helsley and get a RH OF with legit power.

Of that list (Helsley excluded), only Herrera and maybe Burleson would bring back anything useful.

So what do you want to do? They are overflowing with 2B/DH.

[desertrat23]

Not sifting through all the arguing about who's a bigger failure - owner or GM/POBO - to see if anyone brought this up...

The 2005 end of year farm rankings had the Cardinals nowhere near top-5. Same in '06 when they actually won the WS.

Same for end of 2010/2011.

Start with a flawed premise, end up with a flawed conclusion.

Know why? They used prospects to aquire stars. Edmonds Rolen etc all were acquired through trades. However even dealing their top prospects for several years they were still between 12-15 farm rankings with the leftovers. The actual rank doesn’t account for all the players they traded to win. To be honest that’s what this team needs to do. Wetherholt will be at 2B soon and Donovan to OF. So Gorman Walker Nootbar Hererra Segesse annd Burleson are all fighting for RF and DH. They need to package 2 with Helsley and get a RH OF with legit power.

Of that list (Helsley excluded), only Herrera and maybe Burleson would bring back anything useful.

So what do you want to do? They are overflowing with 2B/DH.

Don’t get me wrong, ship ‘em out — just don’t expect a lot back.

[AnExParrot]

Not sifting through all the arguing about who's a bigger failure - owner or GM/POBO - to see if anyone brought this up...

The 2005 end of year farm rankings had the Cardinals nowhere near top-5. Same in '06 when they actually won the WS.

Same for end of 2010/2011.

Start with a flawed premise, end up with a flawed conclusion.

Know why? They used prospects to aquire stars. Edmonds Rolen etc all were acquired through trades. However even dealing their top prospects for several years they were still between 12-15 farm rankings with the leftovers. The actual rank doesn’t account for all the players they traded to win. To be honest that’s what this team needs to do. Wetherholt will be at 2B soon and Donovan to OF. So Gorman Walker Nootbar Hererra Segesse annd Burleson are all fighting for RF and DH. They need to package 2 with Helsley and get a RH OF with legit power.

No top prospects were traded in any of those deals.

Bottenfield and Adam Kennedy were traded for Edmonds - in no way shape or form was trading Kennedy cause for our farm ranking in '05 or '06. Bottenfield was signed as a free agent, had absolutely nothing to do with the farm system or its ranking.

Kennedy was highly thought of at the time, but certainly as part of a trade for a player in 1999, had absolutely nothing to do with the '05/'06 farm ranking. Polanco was an established major leaguer having played in 5 seasons with the Cardinals before the trade. He had nothing to do with the '05/'06 ranking.

Rolen was traded for using Placido Palanco, Mike Timlin(acquired in a minor trade with the Orioles), and Bud Smith. Neither Palanco nor Smith had anything to do with the '05 or '06 farm ranking. The parts involved in the Timlin trade, again, nothing to do with the '05/'06 farm ranking. Acquiring Timlin cost Mike Nussbaum and Chris Richard - them being traded had nothing to do with the team's farm ranking in '05 or '06.

So, who were all these "top prospects?"

[AnExParrot]

Not sifting through all the arguing about who's a bigger failure - owner or GM/POBO - to see if anyone brought this up...

The 2005 end of year farm rankings had the Cardinals nowhere near top-5. Same in '06 when they actually won the WS.

Same for end of 2010/2011.

Start with a flawed premise, end up with a flawed conclusion.

Know why? They used prospects to aquire stars. Edmonds Rolen etc all were acquired through trades. However even dealing their top prospects for several years they were still between 12-15 farm rankings with the leftovers. The actual rank doesn’t account for all the players they traded to win. To be honest that’s what this team needs to do. Wetherholt will be at 2B soon and Donovan to OF. So Gorman Walker Nootbar Hererra Segesse annd Burleson are all fighting for RF and DH. They need to package 2 with Helsley and get a RH OF with legit power.

Bingo. Well stated.

Which top prospects were traded for Edmonds? Rolen?

Carpenter was signed as a FA. Wainwright(+King and Marquis) were had for J.D. Drew and Eli Marrero, neither had anything to do with the farm ranking in '05 or '06, as both were on the 25-man roster for multiple years before that trade.

Again, which "top prospects" were traded in any of those deals?

[Youboughtit]

Not sifting through all the arguing about who's a bigger failure - owner or GM/POBO - to see if anyone brought this up...

The 2005 end of year farm rankings had the Cardinals nowhere near top-5. Same in '06 when they actually won the WS.

Same for end of 2010/2011.

Start with a flawed premise, end up with a flawed conclusion.

Know why? They used prospects to aquire stars. Edmonds Rolen etc all were acquired through trades. However even dealing their top prospects for several years they were still between 12-15 farm rankings with the leftovers. The actual rank doesn’t account for all the players they traded to win. To be honest that’s what this team needs to do. Wetherholt will be at 2B soon and Donovan to OF. So Gorman Walker Nootbar Hererra Segesse annd Burleson are all fighting for RF and DH. They need to package 2 with Helsley and get a RH OF with legit power.

Bingo. Well stated.

Which top prospects were traded for Edmonds? Rolen?

Carpenter was signed as a FA. Wainwright(+King and Marquis) were had for J.D. Drew and Eli Marrero, neither had anything to do with the farm ranking in '05 or '06, as both were on the 25-man roster for multiple years before that trade.

Again, which "top prospects" were traded in any of those deals?

Between 2003-2006 to build that roster they traded

JD Drew
Eli Marrero
Chris Naverason
Dan Harin
Deric Barton

And several others Those 5 were all top 100 prospects and Drew was -#1 overall. Do you even research your responses? A team is not
Built in 1 year. That run was built starting in 2003. Those players not counting in the rankings is my exact point. They would have been top 5 instead of 13th

[Youboughtit]

Not sifting through all the arguing about who's a bigger failure - owner or GM/POBO - to see if anyone brought this up...

The 2005 end of year farm rankings had the Cardinals nowhere near top-5. Same in '06 when they actually won the WS.

Same for end of 2010/2011.

Start with a flawed premise, end up with a flawed conclusion.

Know why? They used prospects to aquire stars. Edmonds Rolen etc all were acquired through trades. However even dealing their top prospects for several years they were still between 12-15 farm rankings with the leftovers. The actual rank doesn’t account for all the players they traded to win. To be honest that’s what this team needs to do. Wetherholt will be at 2B soon and Donovan to OF. So Gorman Walker Nootbar Hererra Segesse annd Burleson are all fighting for RF and DH. They need to package 2 with Helsley and get a RH OF with legit power.

Bingo. Well stated.

Which top prospects were traded for Edmonds? Rolen?

Carpenter was signed as a FA. Wainwright(+King and Marquis) were had for J.D. Drew and Eli Marrero, neither had anything to do with the farm ranking in '05 or '06, as both were on the 25-man roster for multiple years before that trade.

Again, which "top prospects" were traded in any of those deals?

Just to name a few top 100 traded beween 2003-2006 to build that team.

JD Drew
Eli Marrero
Chris Naverason
Dan Harin
Deric Barton

[Youboughtit]

Not sifting through all the arguing about who's a bigger failure - owner or GM/POBO - to see if anyone brought this up...

The 2005 end of year farm rankings had the Cardinals nowhere near top-5. Same in '06 when they actually won the WS.

Same for end of 2010/2011.

Start with a flawed premise, end up with a flawed conclusion.

Know why? They used prospects to aquire stars. Edmonds Rolen etc all were acquired through trades. However even dealing their top prospects for several years they were still between 12-15 farm rankings with the leftovers. The actual rank doesn’t account for all the players they traded to win. To be honest that’s what this team needs to do. Wetherholt will be at 2B soon and Donovan to OF. So Gorman Walker Nootbar Hererra Segesse annd Burleson are all fighting for RF and DH. They need to package 2 with Helsley and get a RH OF with legit power.

No top prospects were traded in any of those deals.

Bottenfield and Adam Kennedy were traded for Edmonds - in no way shape or form was trading Kennedy cause for our farm ranking in '05 or '06. Bottenfield was signed as a free agent, had absolutely nothing to do with the farm system or its ranking.

Kennedy was highly thought of at the time, but certainly as part of a trade for a player in 1999, had absolutely nothing to do with the '05/'06 farm ranking. Polanco was an established major leaguer having played in 5 seasons with the Cardinals before the trade. He had nothing to do with the '05/'06 ranking.

Rolen was traded for using Placido Palanco, Mike Timlin(acquired in a minor trade with the Orioles), and Bud Smith. Neither Palanco nor Smith had anything to do with the '05 or '06 farm ranking. The parts involved in the Timlin trade, again, nothing to do with the '05/'06 farm ranking. Acquiring Timlin cost Mike Nussbaum and Chris Richard - them being traded had nothing to do with the team's farm ranking in '05 or '06.

So, who were all these "top prospects?"

What about the list below? They don’t count?

[AnExParrot]

Not sifting through all the arguing about who's a bigger failure - owner or GM/POBO - to see if anyone brought this up...

The 2005 end of year farm rankings had the Cardinals nowhere near top-5. Same in '06 when they actually won the WS.

Same for end of 2010/2011.

Start with a flawed premise, end up with a flawed conclusion.

Know why? They used prospects to aquire stars. Edmonds Rolen etc all were acquired through trades. However even dealing their top prospects for several years they were still between 12-15 farm rankings with the leftovers. The actual rank doesn’t account for all the players they traded to win. To be honest that’s what this team needs to do. Wetherholt will be at 2B soon and Donovan to OF. So Gorman Walker Nootbar Hererra Segesse annd Burleson are all fighting for RF and DH. They need to package 2 with Helsley and get a RH OF with legit power.

Bingo. Well stated.

Which top prospects were traded for Edmonds? Rolen?

Carpenter was signed as a FA. Wainwright(+King and Marquis) were had for J.D. Drew and Eli Marrero, neither had anything to do with the farm ranking in '05 or '06, as both were on the 25-man roster for multiple years before that trade.

Again, which "top prospects" were traded in any of those deals?

Just to name a few top 100 traded beween 2003-2006 to build that team.

JD Drew
Eli Marrero
Chris Naverason
Dan Harin
Deric Barton

It'd help if you actually bothered to read what I typed before responding - I highlighted it above this time. Drew and Marrero were both playing for the Cardinals for several seasons before being traded - Drew played 762 games for the Cardinals and Marerro 525 games - how did trading two established major leaguers knock the '05/'06 farm down from number 5?

Dan Haren, was part of a trade you didn't mention. Deric Barton traded for Walker, also not mentioned. Narveson was traded in '06, again, not mentioned. Could you just not remember the names of the guys they were traded for?

[AnExParrot]

Not sifting through all the arguing about who's a bigger failure - owner or GM/POBO - to see if anyone brought this up...

The 2005 end of year farm rankings had the Cardinals nowhere near top-5. Same in '06 when they actually won the WS.

Same for end of 2010/2011.

Start with a flawed premise, end up with a flawed conclusion.

Know why? They used prospects to aquire stars. Edmonds Rolen etc all were acquired through trades. However even dealing their top prospects for several years they were still between 12-15 farm rankings with the leftovers. The actual rank doesn’t account for all the players they traded to win. To be honest that’s what this team needs to do. Wetherholt will be at 2B soon and Donovan to OF. So Gorman Walker Nootbar Hererra Segesse annd Burleson are all fighting for RF and DH. They need to package 2 with Helsley and get a RH OF with legit power.

No top prospects were traded in any of those deals.

Bottenfield and Adam Kennedy were traded for Edmonds - in no way shape or form was trading Kennedy cause for our farm ranking in '05 or '06. Bottenfield was signed as a free agent, had absolutely nothing to do with the farm system or its ranking.

Kennedy was highly thought of at the time, but certainly as part of a trade for a player in 1999, had absolutely nothing to do with the '05/'06 farm ranking. Polanco was an established major leaguer having played in 5 seasons with the Cardinals before the trade. He had nothing to do with the '05/'06 ranking.

Rolen was traded for using Placido Palanco, Mike Timlin(acquired in a minor trade with the Orioles), and Bud Smith. Neither Palanco nor Smith had anything to do with the '05 or '06 farm ranking. The parts involved in the Timlin trade, again, nothing to do with the '05/'06 farm ranking. Acquiring Timlin cost Mike Nussbaum and Chris Richard - them being traded had nothing to do with the team's farm ranking in '05 or '06.

So, who were all these "top prospects?"

What about the list below? They don’t count?

That list below includes two I've already addressed - did you read anything I typed before responding? Eli and JD were with the team for several seasons before being traded, how did their trades change the farm rank in '05 and '06? How do players who lost their prospect status years before being traded effect the farm ranking in '05/'06?

[Youboughtit]

Not sifting through all the arguing about who's a bigger failure - owner or GM/POBO - to see if anyone brought this up...

The 2005 end of year farm rankings had the Cardinals nowhere near top-5. Same in '06 when they actually won the WS.

Same for end of 2010/2011.

Start with a flawed premise, end up with a flawed conclusion.

Know why? They used prospects to aquire stars. Edmonds Rolen etc all were acquired through trades. However even dealing their top prospects for several years they were still between 12-15 farm rankings with the leftovers. The actual rank doesn’t account for all the players they traded to win. To be honest that’s what this team needs to do. Wetherholt will be at 2B soon and Donovan to OF. So Gorman Walker Nootbar Hererra Segesse annd Burleson are all fighting for RF and DH. They need to package 2 with Helsley and get a RH OF with legit power.

No top prospects were traded in any of those deals.

Bottenfield and Adam Kennedy were traded for Edmonds - in no way shape or form was trading Kennedy cause for our farm ranking in '05 or '06. Bottenfield was signed as a free agent, had absolutely nothing to do with the farm system or its ranking.

Kennedy was highly thought of at the time, but certainly as part of a trade for a player in 1999, had absolutely nothing to do with the '05/'06 farm ranking. Polanco was an established major leaguer having played in 5 seasons with the Cardinals before the trade. He had nothing to do with the '05/'06 ranking.

Rolen was traded for using Placido Palanco, Mike Timlin(acquired in a minor trade with the Orioles), and Bud Smith. Neither Palanco nor Smith had anything to do with the '05 or '06 farm ranking. The parts involved in the Timlin trade, again, nothing to do with the '05/'06 farm ranking. Acquiring Timlin cost Mike Nussbaum and Chris Richard - them being traded had nothing to do with the team's farm ranking in '05 or '06.

So, who were all these "top prospects?"

What about the list below? They don’t count?

That list below includes two I've already addressed - did you read anything I typed before responding? Eli and JD were with the team for several seasons before being traded, how did their trades change the farm rank in '05 and '06? How do players who lost their prospect status years before being traded effect the farm ranking in '05/'06?

13 in 2006. 13 now. What’s the difference? Payroll. That’s my point. We are in a similar position except payroll was top 10 then and is 18 now

[AnExParrot]

Not sifting through all the arguing about who's a bigger failure - owner or GM/POBO - to see if anyone brought this up...

The 2005 end of year farm rankings had the Cardinals nowhere near top-5. Same in '06 when they actually won the WS.

Same for end of 2010/2011.

Start with a flawed premise, end up with a flawed conclusion.

Know why? They used prospects to aquire stars. Edmonds Rolen etc all were acquired through trades. However even dealing their top prospects for several years they were still between 12-15 farm rankings with the leftovers. The actual rank doesn’t account for all the players they traded to win. To be honest that’s what this team needs to do. Wetherholt will be at 2B soon and Donovan to OF. So Gorman Walker Nootbar Hererra Segesse annd Burleson are all fighting for RF and DH. They need to package 2 with Helsley and get a RH OF with legit power.

No top prospects were traded in any of those deals.

Bottenfield and Adam Kennedy were traded for Edmonds - in no way shape or form was trading Kennedy cause for our farm ranking in '05 or '06. Bottenfield was signed as a free agent, had absolutely nothing to do with the farm system or its ranking.

Kennedy was highly thought of at the time, but certainly as part of a trade for a player in 1999, had absolutely nothing to do with the '05/'06 farm ranking. Polanco was an established major leaguer having played in 5 seasons with the Cardinals before the trade. He had nothing to do with the '05/'06 ranking.

Rolen was traded for using Placido Palanco, Mike Timlin(acquired in a minor trade with the Orioles), and Bud Smith. Neither Palanco nor Smith had anything to do with the '05 or '06 farm ranking. The parts involved in the Timlin trade, again, nothing to do with the '05/'06 farm ranking. Acquiring Timlin cost Mike Nussbaum and Chris Richard - them being traded had nothing to do with the team's farm ranking in '05 or '06.

So, who were all these "top prospects?"

What about the list below? They don’t count?

That list below includes two I've already addressed - did you read anything I typed before responding? Eli and JD were with the team for several seasons before being traded, how did their trades change the farm rank in '05 and '06? How do players who lost their prospect status years before being traded effect the farm ranking in '05/'06?

13 in 2006. 13 now. What’s the difference? Payroll. That’s my point. We are in a similar position except payroll was top 10 then and is 18 now

That wasn't your point in the OP.

You said when they won the world series they were top-10 in payroll and top-5 in farm. As I pointed out, that second point was something you simply made up.