Mo is Dewitt’s puppet

[JuanAgosto]

Mo has squandered millions over the past 15 years. Wiggington, Leake, Fowler, Holland, Gregerson, Miller, Cecil, and more im probably (thankfully), forgetting. BDW gave him a payroll to win with. Mo (upset) away so much of the old man's money, BDW clamped down on the budget.

Mo also placed a bunch of powerless puds around him to cement his own authority. Problem is, he is a disaster at judging talent and even worse at acquiring it. The man is so arrogant, he thought he could outsmart the league and totally tore up the "Cardinals Way" philosophy that created the success he once enjoyed. What a dumb[ash] putz!

BDW should take the blame for keeping that insufferable jackass around so long.

Ok but Mo didn’t cut payroll from $178m last year to $75m on the books for next year. This team is missing the big ticket players. That’s on Dewitt. If it is truly just Mos fault then the next GM should have the budget to get payroll over $200m. Time will tell. $215 is #10 and that’s the winning formula. Dont hold your breath. I think Dewitt wants a sub $100m payroll for profit reasons

I dont think it'll be $75 million. But I agree it won't touch $200 million.

When others are spending more for the Cardinals to go down 50% is a slap in the face to fans. I for one was asking for more at $178 because they fell to # 13 in MLB and they have not was a WS unless in top 10. I don’t understand the rationale. All I can come up with is Dewitt lost his fastball and stopped caring about competing for WS and started looking at profit margins. I do know he has said they don’t consider any of Ballpark village, the apartments, parking, etc as “cardinals revenue” therefore he is keeping just the team on a balance sheet so it payroll vs attendance concessions and TV. I assume because it’s a different ownership group and those people wat to operate in the positive. My response is the team was bought for 500m and the parking garages sold for half that. The team is now worth 3.4b and the profits for the first 20 years were astronomical. It’s time to reinvest in the on field product. Fans will not blindly show up. We want superstar players in their prime or a legit WS contender. Not a WC team

I find it ridiculous that they do not look at a competitive team bringing more attendance and revenue. But the organization has set its sights on WC contention for years now. Just squeak in and hope for the best. Everyone wants to make money. But this team has printed it for the entire 30 yrs of this ownership. There's been enough profit to increase the payroll.

[Goldfan]

Stop it with the Mo hate. He is obviously doing a good job of what Dewitt wants because the fans blame him for the owner being cheap. Fans need to realize Mo is there to be a scapegoat. His hands are tied. Until the payroll is top 10 there is no reason to support this owner. The recipe is proven. Every WS the Cardinals have won they had 2 things in common. Top 5 farm system and top 10 payroll. The farm is currently 11 with 4 top 100 and the #5 pick. The payroll however is $80m below the #10 spot and $40m coming off the books this year. The result is the 2011 team without a Pujols Molina Wainwright and Edmonds.

BDW has given Mo substantial financial leeway over the years. Mo has squandered hundreds of millions. And I think the 11th best farm system is probably too generous. Most put them around 15-20.

Mo will waste really good money on the most mediocre trash available over and over but will never save that cash for an elite player. A difference maker is always a better return then multiples of mediocrity

[Rojo Johnson]

Stop it with the Mo hate. He is obviously doing a good job of what Dewitt wants because the fans blame him for the owner being cheap. Fans need to realize Mo is there to be a scapegoat. His hands are tied. Until the payroll is top 10 there is no reason to support this owner. The recipe is proven. Every WS the Cardinals have won they had 2 things in common. Top 5 farm system and top 10 payroll. The farm is currently 11 with 4 top 100 and the #5 pick. The payroll however is $80m below the #10 spot and $40m coming off the books this year. The result is the 2011 team without a Pujols Molina Wainwright and Edmonds.

the front office (donkey) kissers will accept you as a new member..do you have your own pom-poms and kneepads!

I am placing the blame where it belongs. Dewitt is the problem

Actually, over the years BDW has given Moe ample funds with which to assemble a roster and he has consistently pizzed those funds away with awful contracts to hurt and over the hill players. Surely you can remember that if you choose to. How about Ozuna whose arm couldn’t break a pane of glass?

[Youboughtit]

Stop it with the Mo hate. He is obviously doing a good job of what Dewitt wants because the fans blame him for the owner being cheap. Fans need to realize Mo is there to be a scapegoat. His hands are tied. Until the payroll is top 10 there is no reason to support this owner. The recipe is proven. Every WS the Cardinals have won they had 2 things in common. Top 5 farm system and top 10 payroll. The farm is currently 11 with 4 top 100 and the #5 pick. The payroll however is $80m below the #10 spot and $40m coming off the books this year. The result is the 2011 team without a Pujols Molina Wainwright and Edmonds.

the front office (donkey) kissers will accept you as a new member..do you have your own pom-poms and kneepads!

I am placing the blame where it belongs. Dewitt is the problem

Actually, over the years BDW has given Moe ample funds with which to assemble a roster and he has consistently pizzed those funds away with awful contracts to hurt and over the hill players. Surely you can remember that if you choose to. How about Ozuna whose arm couldn’t break a pane of glass?

Yes. No was short sided always on win now mode and never looking at long term star talent. However Dewitt refusing to spend now when he needs fan support and the farm is good is bewildering. Now is the time to push a $200m payroll and get 2-3 superstars and contend.

[Colotiger]

I think it’s fairly simple. They had a great team in 2004 and got swept in the WS. They barely were above .500 in 2006 and won the WS. They edged into the playoffs on the final day in 2011 and won the WS again. I think this solidified their view that all you have to do with s get into the playoffs and anything can happen.

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

Stop it with the Mo hate. He is obviously doing a good job of what Dewitt wants because the fans blame him for the owner being cheap. Fans need to realize Mo is there to be a scapegoat. His hands are tied. Until the payroll is top 10 there is no reason to support this owner. The recipe is proven. Every WS the Cardinals have won they had 2 things in common. Top 5 farm system and top 10 payroll. The farm is currently 11 with 4 top 100 and the #5 pick. The payroll however is $80m below the #10 spot and $40m coming off the books this year. The result is the 2011 team without a Pujols Molina Wainwright and Edmonds.

BDW has given Mo substantial financial leeway over the years. Mo has squandered hundreds of millions. And I think the 11th best farm system is probably too generous. Most put them around 15-20.

Agreed

[Youboughtit]

I think it’s fairly simple. They had a great team in 2004 and got swept in the WS. They barely were above .500 in 2006 and won the WS. They edged into the playoffs on the final day in 2011 and won the WS again. I think this solidified their view that all you have to do with s get into the playoffs and anything can happen.

That team had 3 HOFers in their prime including a top 10 hitter of all time. This one is that team without Pujols Molina Wainwroght and Rolen. That team also had a top 5 farm system and a top 10 payroll. This one is currently 13 farm and 18 payroll. So less no superstars. Less payroll and less internal options. So you’re saying this is a comparable team to 2006? Not even close. That team would win 9/10 against this team. All but 6 teams are currently near .500 and in the last 20 years th only team to win with the current model is the Royals. It simply doesn’t work

[Ozziesfan41]

Dewitt makes him be a smug, arrogant condescending (donkey) to the fans?

No but cant that serve a purpose? It deflects all the hate to him instead of the owner. If I had a business and wanted it ran in a way the consumer would not like I would hire a person to be the “bad guy”. Thats exactly what this is. The owner has created a “safe zone” from fans. Brilliant

Mo has had a big enough pay roll to do better than he has for years he wastes it on bad contracts. Could Dewitt provide a bigger payroll sure but mo has not displayed the ability to spend it well. Also every GM in baseball is the owners puppets

[Youboughtit]

Dewitt makes him be a smug, arrogant condescending (donkey) to the fans?

No but cant that serve a purpose? It deflects all the hate to him instead of the owner. If I had a business and wanted it ran in a way the consumer would not like I would hire a person to be the “bad guy”. Thats exactly what this is. The owner has created a “safe zone” from fans. Brilliant

Mo has had a big enough pay roll to do better than he has for years he wastes it on bad contracts. Could Dewitt provide a bigger payroll sure but mo has not displayed the ability to spend it well. Also every GM in baseball is the owners puppets

Really? His payroll is currently #18 and they have the #12 record. Imagine this team with the superstars it could have with the top 10 payroll of $215m like it needs to contend. He may have had support in the past but the owner is not trying to win now. That’s my point. Dewitt needs to go

[Ozziesfan41]

Dewitt makes him be a smug, arrogant condescending (donkey) to the fans?

No but cant that serve a purpose? It deflects all the hate to him instead of the owner. If I had a business and wanted it ran in a way the consumer would not like I would hire a person to be the “bad guy”. Thats exactly what this is. The owner has created a “safe zone” from fans. Brilliant

Mo has had a big enough pay roll to do better than he has for years he wastes it on bad contracts. Could Dewitt provide a bigger payroll sure but mo has not displayed the ability to spend it well. Also every GM in baseball is the owners puppets

Really? His payroll is currently #18 and they have the #12 record. Imagine this team with the superstars it could have with the top 10 payroll of $215m like it needs to contend. He may have had support in the past but the owner is not trying to win now. That’s my point. Dewitt needs to go

Imagine if he spent the money wisely instead of wasting on bad contracts? Lord knows the rays can’t compete with their payroll or the brewers who have had lower payrolls than the cardinals. I mean signing mikolas solid move Fowler brilliant signing Mike leake a shrewd signing

[Youboughtit]

Dewitt makes him be a smug, arrogant condescending (donkey) to the fans?

No but cant that serve a purpose? It deflects all the hate to him instead of the owner. If I had a business and wanted it ran in a way the consumer would not like I would hire a person to be the “bad guy”. Thats exactly what this is. The owner has created a “safe zone” from fans. Brilliant

Mo has had a big enough pay roll to do better than he has for years he wastes it on bad contracts. Could Dewitt provide a bigger payroll sure but mo has not displayed the ability to spend it well. Also every GM in baseball is the owners puppets

Really? His payroll is currently #18 and they have the #12 record. Imagine this team with the superstars it could have with the top 10 payroll of $215m like it needs to contend. He may have had support in the past but the owner is not trying to win now. That’s my point. Dewitt needs to go

Imagine if he spent the money wisely instead of wasting on bad contracts? Lord knows the rays can’t compete with their payroll or the brewers who have had lower payrolls than the cardinals. I mean signing mikolas solid move Fowler brilliant signing

Compete = WS not WC. No one cares about making the final WC. Did I miss Tampa and Milwaukee winning the WS? What bad contracts are hamstringing them currently? None. Time to spend.

[BrummerStealsHome]

Mo is Dewitt’s puppet

[ICCFIM2]

Mo has squandered millions over the past 15 years. Wiggington, Leake, Fowler, Holland, Gregerson, Miller, Cecil, and more im probably (thankfully), forgetting. BDW gave him a payroll to win with. Mo (upset) away so much of the old man's money, BDW clamped down on the budget.

Mo also placed a bunch of powerless puds around him to cement his own authority. Problem is, he is a disaster at judging talent and even worse at acquiring it. The man is so arrogant, he thought he could outsmart the league and totally tore up the "Cardinals Way" philosophy that created the success he once enjoyed. What a dumb[ash] putz!

BDW should take the blame for keeping that insufferable jackass around so long.

Ok but Mo didn’t cut payroll from $178m last year to $75m on the books for next year. This team is missing the big ticket players. That’s on Dewitt. If it is truly just Mos fault then the next GM should have the budget to get payroll over $200m. Time will tell. $215 is #10 and that’s the winning formula. Dont hold your breath. I think Dewitt wants a sub $100m payroll for profit reasons

I dont think it'll be $75 million. But I agree it won't touch $200 million.

When others are spending more for the Cardinals to go down 50% is a slap in the face to fans. I for one was asking for more at $178 because they fell to # 13 in MLB and they have not was a WS unless in top 10. I don’t understand the rationale. All I can come up with is Dewitt lost his fastball and stopped caring about competing for WS and started looking at profit margins. I do know he has said they don’t consider any of Ballpark village, the apartments, parking, etc as “cardinals revenue” therefore he is keeping just the team on a balance sheet so it payroll vs attendance concessions and TV. I assume because it’s a different ownership group and those people wat to operate in the positive. My response is the team was bought for 500m and the parking garages sold for half that. The team is now worth 3.4b and the profits for the first 20 years were astronomical. It’s time to reinvest in the on field product. Fans will not blindly show up. We want superstar players in their prime or a legit WS contender. Not a WC team

I agree with most of what you wrote in this thread. But, the Cards were bought for around $150M, not the $500M figure you cited and they sold the parking garages for around $60M. The net investment was under $100M...The return has been spectacular.

The threads pointing out the competitive situation of baseball requiring a high payroll to compete are indicative of the long term structural problems baseball has. But, teams like the Dodgers went out and found streams of revenue in Japan etc., that allowed the Dodgers to expand their revenue and payroll exponentially. The Dewitt's could have done that. They didn't. They said they were going to do that with Ballpark Village. But, after Ballpark Village was built, they said it was different ownership groups and the Ballpark Village revenue would not count. Had it counted, like they said it would, the Cards could likely sport a $225-250M payroll. Fans have every right to be annoyed that the Dewitt's pulled a fast one on them there. They have been very private and at times downright deceptive with respect to what they said the future plans would be and what they turned out to be.

It is hard to say what the future is at this point. Tonight we have the third game of four on something other than Fan Dual. So, yet again, I cannot watch a game. I find that to be another deception that is growing from a minor annoyance into a major irritation.

From my perspective, at the year end press conference, the Dewitt's need to man up, take some responsibility for past mistakes and set forth a clearer vision on the path forward to competitiveness. If they don't, similar to MO, it won't take long for Chaim Bloom to get sick of being the bad guy. No matter how much money you make, there is only so much a person can take. MO leaving is a clear sign that he just didn't want to put up with what I believe you have accurately described in this thread.

[Ozziesfan41]

Dewitt makes him be a smug, arrogant condescending (donkey) to the fans?

No but cant that serve a purpose? It deflects all the hate to him instead of the owner. If I had a business and wanted it ran in a way the consumer would not like I would hire a person to be the “bad guy”. Thats exactly what this is. The owner has created a “safe zone” from fans. Brilliant

Mo has had a big enough pay roll to do better than he has for years he wastes it on bad contracts. Could Dewitt provide a bigger payroll sure but mo has not displayed the ability to spend it well. Also every GM in baseball is the owners puppets

Really? His payroll is currently #18 and they have the #12 record. Imagine this team with the superstars it could have with the top 10 payroll of $215m like it needs to contend. He may have had support in the past but the owner is not trying to win now. That’s my point. Dewitt needs to go

Imagine if he spent the money wisely instead of wasting on bad contracts? Lord knows the rays can’t compete with their payroll or the brewers who have had lower payrolls than the cardinals. I mean signing mikolas solid move Fowler brilliant signing

Compete = WS not WC. No one cares about making the final WC. Did I miss Tampa and Milwaukee winning the WS? What bad contracts are hamstringing them currently? None. Time to spend.

If Mo spent it would be on another mikolas or Fowler of leake sorry if you have a bad POBO doesn’t matter how much payroll you have I mean lord knows the padres and angels have been juggernaut’s with their payrolls

[Goldfan]

Mo has squandered millions over the past 15 years. Wiggington, Leake, Fowler, Holland, Gregerson, Miller, Cecil, and more im probably (thankfully), forgetting. BDW gave him a payroll to win with. Mo (upset) away so much of the old man's money, BDW clamped down on the budget.

Mo also placed a bunch of powerless puds around him to cement his own authority. Problem is, he is a disaster at judging talent and even worse at acquiring it. The man is so arrogant, he thought he could outsmart the league and totally tore up the "Cardinals Way" philosophy that created the success he once enjoyed. What a dumb[ash] putz!

BDW should take the blame for keeping that insufferable jackass around so long.

Ok but Mo didn’t cut payroll from $178m last year to $75m on the books for next year. This team is missing the big ticket players. That’s on Dewitt. If it is truly just Mos fault then the next GM should have the budget to get payroll over $200m. Time will tell. $215 is #10 and that’s the winning formula. Dont hold your breath. I think Dewitt wants a sub $100m payroll for profit reasons

I dont think it'll be $75 million. But I agree it won't touch $200 million.

When others are spending more for the Cardinals to go down 50% is a slap in the face to fans. I for one was asking for more at $178 because they fell to # 13 in MLB and they have not was a WS unless in top 10. I don’t understand the rationale. All I can come up with is Dewitt lost his fastball and stopped caring about competing for WS and started looking at profit margins. I do know he has said they don’t consider any of Ballpark village, the apartments, parking, etc as “cardinals revenue” therefore he is keeping just the team on a balance sheet so it payroll vs attendance concessions and TV. I assume because it’s a different ownership group and those people wat to operate in the positive. My response is the team was bought for 500m and the parking garages sold for half that. The team is now worth 3.4b and the profits for the first 20 years were astronomical. It’s time to reinvest in the on field product. Fans will not blindly show up. We want superstar players in their prime or a legit WS contender. Not a WC team

I agree with most of what you wrote in this thread. But, the Cards were bought for around $150M, not the $500M figure you cited and they sold the parking garages for around $60M. The net investment was under $100M...The return has been spectacular.

The threads pointing out the competitive situation of baseball requiring a high payroll to compete are indicative of the long term structural problems baseball has. But, teams like the Dodgers went out and found streams of revenue in Japan etc., that allowed the Dodgers to expand their revenue and payroll exponentially. The Dewitt's could have done that. They didn't. They said they were going to do that with Ballpark Village. But, after Ballpark Village was built, they said it was different ownership groups and the Ballpark Village revenue would not count. Had it counted, like they said it would, the Cards could likely sport a $225-250M payroll. Fans have every right to be annoyed that the Dewitt's pulled a fast one on them there. They have been very private and at times downright deceptive with respect to what they said the future plans would be and what they turned out to be.

It is hard to say what the future is at this point. Tonight we have the third game of four on something other than Fan Dual. So, yet again, I cannot watch a game. I find that to be another deception that is growing from a minor annoyance into a major irritation.

From my perspective, at the year end press conference, the Dewitt's need to man up, take some responsibility for past mistakes and set forth a clearer vision on the path forward to competitiveness. If they don't, similar to MO, it won't take long for Chaim Bloom to get sick of being the bad guy. No matter how much money you make, there is only so much a person can take. MO leaving is a clear sign that he just didn't want to put up with what I believe you have accurately described in this thread.

The Dodgers have multiple billionaires in their ownership group, with the primary owner recently spearheading the purchases of the Lakers. This is future of prosports ownership. Extremely deep pockets billionaires ownership groups owning multiple teams. CNBC has the top 5 this morning
Kroenke Group was #1, Dodgers group, Cowboys, Redsox, MSG….all owning multiple teams.

[ICCFIM2]

Mo has squandered millions over the past 15 years. Wiggington, Leake, Fowler, Holland, Gregerson, Miller, Cecil, and more im probably (thankfully), forgetting. BDW gave him a payroll to win with. Mo (upset) away so much of the old man's money, BDW clamped down on the budget.

Mo also placed a bunch of powerless puds around him to cement his own authority. Problem is, he is a disaster at judging talent and even worse at acquiring it. The man is so arrogant, he thought he could outsmart the league and totally tore up the "Cardinals Way" philosophy that created the success he once enjoyed. What a dumb[ash] putz!

BDW should take the blame for keeping that insufferable jackass around so long.

Ok but Mo didn’t cut payroll from $178m last year to $75m on the books for next year. This team is missing the big ticket players. That’s on Dewitt. If it is truly just Mos fault then the next GM should have the budget to get payroll over $200m. Time will tell. $215 is #10 and that’s the winning formula. Dont hold your breath. I think Dewitt wants a sub $100m payroll for profit reasons

I dont think it'll be $75 million. But I agree it won't touch $200 million.

When others are spending more for the Cardinals to go down 50% is a slap in the face to fans. I for one was asking for more at $178 because they fell to # 13 in MLB and they have not was a WS unless in top 10. I don’t understand the rationale. All I can come up with is Dewitt lost his fastball and stopped caring about competing for WS and started looking at profit margins. I do know he has said they don’t consider any of Ballpark village, the apartments, parking, etc as “cardinals revenue” therefore he is keeping just the team on a balance sheet so it payroll vs attendance concessions and TV. I assume because it’s a different ownership group and those people wat to operate in the positive. My response is the team was bought for 500m and the parking garages sold for half that. The team is now worth 3.4b and the profits for the first 20 years were astronomical. It’s time to reinvest in the on field product. Fans will not blindly show up. We want superstar players in their prime or a legit WS contender. Not a WC team

I agree with most of what you wrote in this thread. But, the Cards were bought for around $150M, not the $500M figure you cited and they sold the parking garages for around $60M. The net investment was under $100M...The return has been spectacular.

The threads pointing out the competitive situation of baseball requiring a high payroll to compete are indicative of the long term structural problems baseball has. But, teams like the Dodgers went out and found streams of revenue in Japan etc., that allowed the Dodgers to expand their revenue and payroll exponentially. The Dewitt's could have done that. They didn't. They said they were going to do that with Ballpark Village. But, after Ballpark Village was built, they said it was different ownership groups and the Ballpark Village revenue would not count. Had it counted, like they said it would, the Cards could likely sport a $225-250M payroll. Fans have every right to be annoyed that the Dewitt's pulled a fast one on them there. They have been very private and at times downright deceptive with respect to what they said the future plans would be and what they turned out to be.

It is hard to say what the future is at this point. Tonight we have the third game of four on something other than Fan Dual. So, yet again, I cannot watch a game. I find that to be another deception that is growing from a minor annoyance into a major irritation.

From my perspective, at the year end press conference, the Dewitt's need to man up, take some responsibility for past mistakes and set forth a clearer vision on the path forward to competitiveness. If they don't, similar to MO, it won't take long for Chaim Bloom to get sick of being the bad guy. No matter how much money you make, there is only so much a person can take. MO leaving is a clear sign that he just didn't want to put up with what I believe you have accurately described in this thread.

The Dodgers have multiple billionaires in their ownership group, with the primary owner recently spearheading the purchases of the Lakers. This is future of prosports ownership. Extremely deep pockets billionaires ownership groups owning multiple teams. CNBC has the top 5 this morning
Kroenke Group was #1, Dodgers group, Cowboys, Redsox, MSG….all owning multiple teams.

For certain that is correct, those teams will have the deepest pockets. The point still stands the Dodgers have been quite creative in creating revenue streams and that helps. The Dewitt's as I stated had a plan to do so and then basically said, well it doesn't count...