Who's the better defensive shortstop? Scott in CF.

[Shady]

And hitter. Winn or Wetherholt? Is Scott going to hit enough to be CF of the future for the Cardinals? If not, ether Winn or Wetherholy might be a good option. Just thinking outside the box.

[BrockFloodMaris]

Winn or Wetherholt? And hitter.

Let's give JJ reps at both 2B and SS in MEM and see what happens in spring training.

[CorneliusWolfe]

And hitter. Winn or Wetherholt? Is Scott going to hit enough to be CF of the future for the Cardinals? If not, ether Winn or Wetherholy might be a good option. Just thinking outside the box.

Winn is already one of the best defensive SS in the game with an elite throwing arm. Your plan also gives up on VS very early, who is also an elite defender. If you're already strong up the middle, why disrupt? Defense is one of this teams only real sustainable strengths. TIred of seeing defense undervalued.

JJW at CF will also delay his arrival unless you want another Jordan Walker situation where he has to learn a new position at the ML level.

JJW should either replace Donovan who turns 29 before next season or Arenado if he waives NTC and moves on. I'm thinking they might sell high on Donovan if JJW shows strong at Memphis. They've already haggled him hard in arbitration.

[Shady]

And hitter. Winn or Wetherholt? Is Scott going to hit enough to be CF of the future for the Cardinals? If not, ether Winn or Wetherholy might be a good option. Just thinking outside the box.

Winn is already one of the best defensive SS in the game with an elite throwing arm. Your plan also gives up on VS very early, who is also an elite defender. If you're already strong up the middle, why disrupt? Defense is one of this teams only real sustainable strengths. TIred of seeing defense undervalued.

JJW at CF will also delay his arrival unless you want another Jordan Walker situation where he has to learn a new position at the ML level.

JJW should either replace Donovan who turns 29 before next season or Arenado if he waives NTC and moves on. I'm thinking they might sell high on Donovan if JJW shows strong at Memphis. They've already haggled him hard in arbitration.

Good post. But Wetherholt to CF could easily turned out like the stud for Arizona. IMO. It would sure help fitting both Saggese and Gorman into a future lineup. I'm concerned about Scott's strikeout rate.

[Carp4Cy]

I don’t know what the knock is on Scott’s hitting. I think he hits fine for an elite defensive centerfielder, if we had great hitting corner outfielders. Which we don’t, but that’s not his fault.

Meanwhile, Donovan is a gold glove over a second base with an All-Star batch. And winn has a gold caliber glove, although there are a lot of those in the league right now.

So it makes me wonder whether JW can materially improve this team by replacing one of those positions or if you just feels a position where we don’t have a great need to begin with?

What we are really missing is Moto bats 100 RBI at left-field and rightfield and a DH that doesn’t get hurt.

JJW doesn’t profile as that and neither does Donovan or Scott or Winn. Feels kinda like we’re collecting shiny objects, but don’t have what we really need.

[CorneliusWolfe]

I don’t know what the knock is on Scott’s hitting. I think he hits fine for an elite defensive centerfielder, if we had great hitting corner outfielders. Which we don’t, but that’s not his fault.

Meanwhile, Donovan is a gold glove over a second base with an All-Star batch. And winn has a gold caliber glove, although there are a lot of those in the league right now.

So it makes me wonder whether JW can materially improve this team by replacing one of those positions or if you just feels a position where we don’t have a great need to begin with?

What we are really missing is Moto bats 100 RBI at left-field and rightfield and a DH that doesn’t get hurt.

JJW doesn’t profile as that and neither does Donovan or Scott or Winn. Feels kinda like we’re collecting shiny objects, but don’t have what we really need.

I thought the same (collecting shiny objects) when the team drafted JJW. I know he's a highly regarded prospect and may have well been the best player available but he sure did not seem to fit a position of need. LF/RF as you mentioned was/is badly needed. Agree on your take on VS hitting too.

[CorneliusWolfe]

And hitter. Winn or Wetherholt? Is Scott going to hit enough to be CF of the future for the Cardinals? If not, ether Winn or Wetherholy might be a good option. Just thinking outside the box.

Winn is already one of the best defensive SS in the game with an elite throwing arm. Your plan also gives up on VS very early, who is also an elite defender. If you're already strong up the middle, why disrupt? Defense is one of this teams only real sustainable strengths. TIred of seeing defense undervalued.

JJW at CF will also delay his arrival unless you want another Jordan Walker situation where he has to learn a new position at the ML level.

JJW should either replace Donovan who turns 29 before next season or Arenado if he waives NTC and moves on. I'm thinking they might sell high on Donovan if JJW shows strong at Memphis. They've already haggled him hard in arbitration.

Good post. But Wetherholt to CF could easily turned out like the stud for Arizona. IMO. It would sure help fitting both Saggese and Gorman into a future lineup. I'm concerned about Scott's strikeout rate.

Maybe Gorman to LF would've been a simlar but better move a few years back. His bat would profile. I'm not sure there is a need to find a way to force him and Sagesse into MI. I like Sagesse but he is yet another redundancy, and maybe lesser talented, but time will tell, as he has shown some flashes.

[CorneliusWolfe]

And hitter. Winn or Wetherholt? Is Scott going to hit enough to be CF of the future for the Cardinals? If not, ether Winn or Wetherholy might be a good option. Just thinking outside the box.

Winn is already one of the best defensive SS in the game with an elite throwing arm. Your plan also gives up on VS very early, who is also an elite defender. If you're already strong up the middle, why disrupt? Defense is one of this teams only real sustainable strengths. TIred of seeing defense undervalued.

JJW at CF will also delay his arrival unless you want another Jordan Walker situation where he has to learn a new position at the ML level.

JJW should either replace Donovan who turns 29 before next season or Arenado if he waives NTC and moves on. I'm thinking they might sell high on Donovan if JJW shows strong at Memphis. They've already haggled him hard in arbitration.

Good post. But Wetherholt to CF could easily turned out like the stud for Arizona. IMO. It would sure help fitting both Saggese and Gorman into a future lineup. I'm concerned about Scott's strikeout rate.

Carroll did play over 250 innings at SS in minors so maybe on to something as far as converting JJW but would rather see VS continue to develop. Maybe give JJW some innings out there as an experiment to hedge our bets with VS?

[bccardsfan]

And hitter. Winn or Wetherholt? Is Scott going to hit enough to be CF of the future for the Cardinals? If not, ether Winn or Wetherholy might be a good option. Just thinking outside the box.

Winn is already one of the best defensive SS in the game with an elite throwing arm. Your plan also gives up on VS very early, who is also an elite defender. If you're already strong up the middle, why disrupt? Defense is one of this teams only real sustainable strengths. TIred of seeing defense undervalued.

JJW at CF will also delay his arrival unless you want another Jordan Walker situation where he has to learn a new position at the ML level.

JJW should either replace Donovan who turns 29 before next season or Arenado if he waives NTC and moves on. I'm thinking they might sell high on Donovan if JJW shows strong at Memphis. They've already haggled him hard in arbitration.

Good post. But Wetherholt to CF could easily turned out like the stud for Arizona. IMO. It would sure help fitting both Saggese and Gorman into a future lineup. I'm concerned about Scott's strikeout rate.

Maybe Gorman to LF would've been a simlar but better move a few years back. His bat would profile. I'm not sure there is a need to find a way to force him and Sagesse into MI. I like Sagesse but he is yet another redundancy, and maybe lesser talented, but time will tell, as he has shown some flashes.

They are going to deal from the excess MI population on this team. Most likely to get pitching or OF prospects. Same with the number of young catchers in the org. IF JJ turns out to be the hitter everyone hopes he is, then he stays and someone else is dealt, be it Gorman, Saggese, Donnie or whomever. Possibly Walker is dealt. Moves will be made. Nado will be hard to move unless he waives his NTC. I seriously doubt JJ ends up in the OF. Most likely he ends up at 2B or 3B. Winn isn't going anywhere barring serious injury. He is an elite defensive SS who is more than holding his own at the plate in only his sophomore year. He will continue to improve. JJ at 2B or 3B also allows him to be the backup SS, which we don't have. Fermin? Donnie? Saggese? Yeah suuurrrreee... only for a few games in a pinch. JJ allows you to have a decent backup SS if Winn goes on the IL.

Again, there will be a deal that moves someone with some value to get an OFer or pitching prospects. We don't have anyone to deal who is worth a really good major league ready SP. Not anyone they would want to trade anyway. I certainly don't see ownership signing anyone like Tucker. Not happening.

[Carp4Cy]

And hitter. Winn or Wetherholt? Is Scott going to hit enough to be CF of the future for the Cardinals? If not, ether Winn or Wetherholy might be a good option. Just thinking outside the box.

Winn is already one of the best defensive SS in the game with an elite throwing arm. Your plan also gives up on VS very early, who is also an elite defender. If you're already strong up the middle, why disrupt? Defense is one of this teams only real sustainable strengths. TIred of seeing defense undervalued.

JJW at CF will also delay his arrival unless you want another Jordan Walker situation where he has to learn a new position at the ML level.

JJW should either replace Donovan who turns 29 before next season or Arenado if he waives NTC and moves on. I'm thinking they might sell high on Donovan if JJW shows strong at Memphis. They've already haggled him hard in arbitration.

Good post. But Wetherholt to CF could easily turned out like the stud for Arizona. IMO. It would sure help fitting both Saggese and Gorman into a future lineup. I'm concerned about Scott's strikeout rate.

Maybe Gorman to LF would've been a simlar but better move a few years back. His bat would profile. I'm not sure there is a need to find a way to force him and Sagesse into MI. I like Sagesse but he is yet another redundancy, and maybe lesser talented, but time will tell, as he has shown some flashes.

Agree on Sagesse being another redundancy. Hopefully he is a valuable trade chip for someone we really need. That was an idea that was floated when he was acquired. Now it’s that time.

But I don’t trust his defense as far as I can throw him especially at third base. I’ve seen him make some truly awful play over there.

Granted, we’re gonna be (upset) at the defense of anybody that replaces Arenado, but whoever that is better come with a 850 OPS to kind of make up for it

[Shady]

Some really good posts going. I still am intrigued by taking a chance on trading for the 27 year old RHB, former All Star CF, Robert.

[CorneliusWolfe]

They are going to deal from the excess MI population on this team. Most likely to get pitching or OF prospects. Same with the number of young catchers in the org. IF JJ turns out to be the hitter everyone hopes he is, then he stays and someone else is dealt, be it Gorman, Saggese, Donnie or whomever. Possibly Walker is dealt. Moves will be made. Nado will be hard to move unless he waives his NTC. I seriously doubt JJ ends up in the OF. Most likely he ends up at 2B or 3B. Winn isn't going anywhere barring serious injury. He is an elite defensive SS who is more than holding his own at the plate in only his sophomore year. He will continue to improve. JJ at 2B or 3B also allows him to be the backup SS, which we don't have. Fermin? Donnie? Saggese? Yeah suuurrrreee... only for a few games in a pinch. JJ allows you to have a decent backup SS if Winn goes on the IL.

Again, there will be a deal that moves someone with some value to get an OFer or pitching prospects. We don't have anyone to deal who is worth a really good major league ready SP. Not anyone they would want to trade anyway. I certainly don't see ownership signing anyone like Tucker. Not happening.

Spot on about backup SS. Very sorely needed and LH compliment.

[CorneliusWolfe]

Some really good posts going. I still am intrigued by taking a chance on trading for the 27 year old RHB, former All Star CF, Robert.

Don’t ruin it now Shady! Keep responding to the dialogue of your original topic. This is a pretty good one. You didn’t throw out a super redundant or bad idea and you responded to the baseball talk. Notice there have been zero negative replies? We can tell when you’re tossing out troll bait to argue. I’m proud of you for this one and hope Scouty doesn’t tell you to F off LOL!

[renostl]

And hitter. Winn or Wetherholt? Is Scott going to hit enough to be CF of the future for the Cardinals? If not, ether Winn or Wetherholy might be a good option. Just thinking outside the box.

Winn is already one of the best defensive SS in the game with an elite throwing arm. Your plan also gives up on VS very early, who is also an elite defender. If you're already strong up the middle, why disrupt? Defense is one of this teams only real sustainable strengths. TIred of seeing defense undervalued.

JJW at CF will also delay his arrival unless you want another Jordan Walker situation where he has to learn a new position at the ML level.

JJW should either replace Donovan who turns 29 before next season or Arenado if he waives NTC and moves on. I'm thinking they might sell high on Donovan if JJW shows strong at Memphis. They've already haggled him hard in arbitration.

No surprise whatever they do with BD and the return could impact the team
middle infield might get crowded IF JJ is in that mix.

I'd like JJ to get reps at 3B and SS at Memphis mostly because he has less
to prove at 2B. That's his defensive floor IMO.
Fermin and Saggese are RH backups, IMO without
any urgency to promote them.

IF CF needs addressed let Baez or Church in that mix.

[Wattage]

I don’t know what the knock is on Scott’s hitting. I think he hits fine for an elite defensive centerfielder, if we had great hitting corner outfielders. Which we don’t, but that’s not his fault.

Meanwhile, Donovan is a gold glove over a second base with an All-Star batch. And winn has a gold caliber glove, although there are a lot of those in the league right now.

So it makes me wonder whether JW can materially improve this team by replacing one of those positions or if you just feels a position where we don’t have a great need to begin with?

What we are really missing is Moto bats 100 RBI at left-field and rightfield and a DH that doesn’t get hurt.

JJW doesn’t profile as that and neither does Donovan or Scott or Winn. Feels kinda like we’re collecting shiny objects, but don’t have what we really need.

Bader in his prime was better than scott is defensively or at least as good, and yet people lombasted him for his hitting which wasnt near as bad as scotts right now ither than baders 2019 year.

Scott has a .647 ops and 83 ops+ meaning his offensive output is 17% worse than league average

Scotts ops ranks 147 out of 156 qualified hitters- yes he is one ofnthe worst every day hitters in the league. So no that is not fine. He can improve, but stop pretending his hitting is even close to acceptable.

And victor scott despite playing nearly every day is only tied for 5th in defensive runs saved- and 3 of the guys ahead of him can hit just fine- harris is the exception amd hitting worse. So being good at defense doesnt mean you should expect them to suck offensively.

Saying any guy hits fine, "if he had elite lineup around him" is just an admission the guy doesnt hit well.

[HorseTrader]

And hitter. Winn or Wetherholt? Is Scott going to hit enough to be CF of the future for the Cardinals? If not, ether Winn or Wetherholy might be a good option. Just thinking outside the box.

Winn is already one of the best defensive SS in the game with an elite throwing arm. Your plan also gives up on VS very early, who is also an elite defender. If you're already strong up the middle, why disrupt? Defense is one of this teams only real sustainable strengths. TIred of seeing defense undervalued.

JJW at CF will also delay his arrival unless you want another Jordan Walker situation where he has to learn a new position at the ML level.

JJW should either replace Donovan who turns 29 before next season or Arenado if he waives NTC and moves on. I'm thinking they might sell high on Donovan if JJW shows strong at Memphis. They've already haggled him hard in arbitration.

Good post. But Wetherholt to CF could easily turned out like the stud for Arizona. IMO. It would sure help fitting both Saggese and Gorman into a future lineup. I'm concerned about Scott's strikeout rate.

What stud for the DBacks? Their CF (Alek Thomas) didn't move from SS to CF. I also doubt anyone considers him a stud (except for you). Now if so happens that you are confused and were thinking about their RF Corbin Carroll, well he is a good player but far as I can tell he never played SS.

One or the other of them may have played a little SS in high school but that's the end of it. Both started their pro careers in the OF. The only similarity is they were drafted out of high school.