16 out of 98...Paul Goldschmidt everybody

[scoutyjones2]

Age for a ballplayer is a beeetch

But

He gave the Yanks an all-star level performance from Opening Day till mid June:

Opening Day - 6/15
.304 .363 .445 .808

But he also turns 38 yrs old in a couple months, the summer heat was bound to get to him and wear him down.

LoL. Like Tommy edman?

[CorneliusWolfe]

I did the math... 163 average.. 2 HRs and a 509. OPS during this stretch

Things just keep getting worse. Friday's loss to the crosstown Mets dropped the Yankees to 48-40 and two games out of first place in the AL East. Goldschmidt went 0-for-4, continuing a stretch where he's only recorded 16 hits in his last 98 at-bats.

If the Yankees feel a lineup overhaul is necessary, could that mean Goldschmidt finds himself on the bench? The Yankees wouldn't really make that move, would they?

No, probably not. Very rarely do the Yankees bench veterans, let alone a former NL MVP like Goldschmidt, amid prolonged slumps. Manager Aaron Boone has instead created the impression that he only sits players if he truly feels they can't turn things around, which is why Joey Gallo barely lasted a year with the Yankees.

Benching old (great) vets a hard call. You don’t want to embarrass a guy who’s been a face of the game and great ambassador for the sport and you never know if they have a shot of that MVP magic left, like he flashed the first few months.

I’d probably wait and see if he gets back at it after the break. Last 6 weeks in a tight race maybe not.

Disagree.
If the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to bench a player, that reality is not altered by tangential factors.
The game does not care about a player's age.
Or contract.
Or legacy.
Or potential embarrassment.
The game reflects performance only.
And I am only and always about the game.

Correct baseball decisions aren’t always of the short sighted and cold calculating variety. People, not robots (TLR).

We’re talking about a highly respected player who has performed, and provided value on a contender, THIS season. Maybe he’s a little banged up and the break will do him some good. It’s why it exists. Not talking about guaranteed playing time the rest of the year…just a little more leash.

Your method as a GM would make other veterans that could be useful to your team avoid signing like the plague. I’ve got you back down to 90%. Still really good though.

Scouty raised the question of benching a veteran.
Which is the context of my reply.
The discussion is not about the usefulness of veterans to the roster.
They are.
Nor about "respect".
Some have certainly earned it.
And yes, players can be banged up - at any age.
Not the point.
The game does not care about any of those things.
The game is about outcomes -nothing else.
Bottom line - once a manager believes a player should be benched based on lack of productivity, that decision must be made regardless of tangential factors.
Is Goldschmidt at the point?
I don't know.
I would need to watch the Yankees for perhaps 7-10 days to form a conclusion.
Boone, of course, has been observing far longer.
And if, in his judgement, Goldschmidt is not the best starting option to provide production, he should act on that without consideration to the other factors under discussion here.

“The game” doesn’t make any decisions, people do. And they must assess WHO they are benching or releasing. PG not ANY veteran, nor did Scouty
infer it in OP. It was about a unique and specific veteran. One who was MVP 3 years ago, maintains excellent physical conditioning, played in a toxic culture last few years and was killing it in the first 1/3 of this season. And I never said I’d disagree if Boone, who knows the situation best, benched him. Scouty asked what we thought.

Tossing straw men in the fire beneath you.

[CorneliusWolfe]

I wasn't a bad signing as he simply murders lefties. But he's dismal against righties. Strictly a a platoon player now. In many ways it's a lot like the Yanks signing Johnny Mize, except Mize still murdered righties when he was 37. He really struggled against southpaws. But there are a lot more righties a player will face than a lefty.

A post based solely on baseball factors.
As it should be.

Most factual post on this hypothetical thread, which asks, would they/should they, bench PG.

NH stated it was “not a bad signing”…which could be interpreted, as it relates to OP, that PG should maybe get a little more leash, at least for the moment. But admittedly reading between lines as the question posed was not directly answered.

You yourself could’ve just answered OP with “Yes…he should be benched” and spared the lecture.

Kind of seems like you made this one more about you than the game…

[JDW]

Was happy for PG when he was going great for the Yankees, and sad to see now that he's not very surprisingly struggling.
I think he'll rebound some in the 2nd half and probably still gives the Yankees the best chance to win if they continue to start him at 1B most nights.
Wonder if this will be his final season.

[Rocket Scientist]

Was happy for PG when he was going great for the Yankees, and sad to see now that he's not very surprisingly struggling.
I think he'll rebound some in the 2nd half and probably still gives the Yankees the best chance to win if they continue to start him at 1B most nights.
Wonder if this will be his final season.

Think Carp.

[rockondlouie]

Age for a ballplayer is a beeetch

But

He gave the Yanks an all-star level performance from Opening Day till mid June:

Opening Day - 6/15
.304 .363 .445 .808

But he also turns 38 yrs old in a couple months, the summer heat was bound to get to him and wear him down.

LoL. Like Tommy edman?

M. Winn

While cool in St. Louis until Mid June: .275 .347 .420 .767

Since Mid June when the St. Louis heat kicked in: .217 .261 .313 .575

[sp25]

I did the math... 163 average.. 2 HRs and a 509. OPS during this stretch

Things just keep getting worse. Friday's loss to the crosstown Mets dropped the Yankees to 48-40 and two games out of first place in the AL East. Goldschmidt went 0-for-4, continuing a stretch where he's only recorded 16 hits in his last 98 at-bats.

If the Yankees feel a lineup overhaul is necessary, could that mean Goldschmidt finds himself on the bench? The Yankees wouldn't really make that move, would they?

No, probably not. Very rarely do the Yankees bench veterans, let alone a former NL MVP like Goldschmidt, amid prolonged slumps. Manager Aaron Boone has instead created the impression that he only sits players if he truly feels they can't turn things around, which is why Joey Gallo barely lasted a year with the Yankees.

Is plagiarism allowed on Cards Talk? Scouty didn't write this.

[renostl]

I did the math... 163 average.. 2 HRs and a 509. OPS during this stretch

Things just keep getting worse. Friday's loss to the crosstown Mets dropped the Yankees to 48-40 and two games out of first place in the AL East. Goldschmidt went 0-for-4, continuing a stretch where he's only recorded 16 hits in his last 98 at-bats.

If the Yankees feel a lineup overhaul is necessary, could that mean Goldschmidt finds himself on the bench? The Yankees wouldn't really make that move, would they?

No, probably not. Very rarely do the Yankees bench veterans, let alone a former NL MVP like Goldschmidt, amid prolonged slumps. Manager Aaron Boone has instead created the impression that he only sits players if he truly feels they can't turn things around, which is why Joey Gallo barely lasted a year with the Yankees.

Benching old (great) vets a hard call. You don’t want to embarrass a guy who’s been a face of the game and great ambassador for the sport and you never know if they have a shot of that MVP magic left, like he flashed the first few months.

I’d probably wait and see if he gets back at it after the break. Last 6 weeks in a tight race maybe not.

Disagree.
If the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to bench a player, that reality is not altered by tangential factors.
The game does not care about a player's age.
Or contract.
Or legacy.
Or potential embarrassment.
The game reflects performance only.
And I am only and always about the game.

It still becomes subjective on 2 counts.
How he looks at the plate.
How long do you go with the decreased performance, 1 game? 1 series?
1 week? or 1 month?

[imetsatchelpaige]

His batted ball luck ran out. Not hard to predict. And just 8 HRs. His slugger days are long gone.

It is the big fade we know all too well.
We saw a similar performance last year. When someone shows you who they are, believe it.

[Swuhgen]

I did the math... 163 average.. 2 HRs and a 509. OPS during this stretch

Things just keep getting worse. Friday's loss to the crosstown Mets dropped the Yankees to 48-40 and two games out of first place in the AL East. Goldschmidt went 0-for-4, continuing a stretch where he's only recorded 16 hits in his last 98 at-bats.

If the Yankees feel a lineup overhaul is necessary, could that mean Goldschmidt finds himself on the bench? The Yankees wouldn't really make that move, would they?

No, probably not. Very rarely do the Yankees bench veterans, let alone a former NL MVP like Goldschmidt, amid prolonged slumps. Manager Aaron Boone has instead created the impression that he only sits players if he truly feels they can't turn things around, which is why Joey Gallo barely lasted a year with the Yankees.

He got old fast. It happens.

Happened to Arenado at a younger age.

[sikeston bulldog2]

I did the math... 163 average.. 2 HRs and a 509. OPS during this stretch

Things just keep getting worse. Friday's loss to the crosstown Mets dropped the Yankees to 48-40 and two games out of first place in the AL East. Goldschmidt went 0-for-4, continuing a stretch where he's only recorded 16 hits in his last 98 at-bats.

If the Yankees feel a lineup overhaul is necessary, could that mean Goldschmidt finds himself on the bench? The Yankees wouldn't really make that move, would they?

No, probably not. Very rarely do the Yankees bench veterans, let alone a former NL MVP like Goldschmidt, amid prolonged slumps. Manager Aaron Boone has instead created the impression that he only sits players if he truly feels they can't turn things around, which is why Joey Gallo barely lasted a year with the Yankees.

He got old fast. It happens.

Happened to Arenado at a younger age.

And it happened to both after they arrived n STL. Maybe it’s the water. Maybe it’s the river. The Arch. Something.

I’m thinking it’s the recreational dope? Ha. Just kidding.

[Melville]

I did the math... 163 average.. 2 HRs and a 509. OPS during this stretch

Things just keep getting worse. Friday's loss to the crosstown Mets dropped the Yankees to 48-40 and two games out of first place in the AL East. Goldschmidt went 0-for-4, continuing a stretch where he's only recorded 16 hits in his last 98 at-bats.

If the Yankees feel a lineup overhaul is necessary, could that mean Goldschmidt finds himself on the bench? The Yankees wouldn't really make that move, would they?

No, probably not. Very rarely do the Yankees bench veterans, let alone a former NL MVP like Goldschmidt, amid prolonged slumps. Manager Aaron Boone has instead created the impression that he only sits players if he truly feels they can't turn things around, which is why Joey Gallo barely lasted a year with the Yankees.

Benching old (great) vets a hard call. You don’t want to embarrass a guy who’s been a face of the game and great ambassador for the sport and you never know if they have a shot of that MVP magic left, like he flashed the first few months.

I’d probably wait and see if he gets back at it after the break. Last 6 weeks in a tight race maybe not.

Disagree.
If the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to bench a player, that reality is not altered by tangential factors.
The game does not care about a player's age.
Or contract.
Or legacy.
Or potential embarrassment.
The game reflects performance only.
And I am only and always about the game.

Correct baseball decisions aren’t always of the short sighted and cold calculating variety. People, not robots (TLR).

We’re talking about a highly respected player who has performed, and provided value on a contender, THIS season. Maybe he’s a little banged up and the break will do him some good. It’s why it exists. Not talking about guaranteed playing time the rest of the year…just a little more leash.

Your method as a GM would make other veterans that could be useful to your team avoid signing like the plague. I’ve got you back down to 90%. Still really good though.

Scouty raised the question of benching a veteran.
Which is the context of my reply.
The discussion is not about the usefulness of veterans to the roster.
They are.
Nor about "respect".
Some have certainly earned it.
And yes, players can be banged up - at any age.
Not the point.
The game does not care about any of those things.
The game is about outcomes -nothing else.
Bottom line - once a manager believes a player should be benched based on lack of productivity, that decision must be made regardless of tangential factors.
Is Goldschmidt at the point?
I don't know.
I would need to watch the Yankees for perhaps 7-10 days to form a conclusion.
Boone, of course, has been observing far longer.
And if, in his judgement, Goldschmidt is not the best starting option to provide production, he should act on that without consideration to the other factors under discussion here.

“The game” doesn’t make any decisions, people do. And they must assess WHO they are benching or releasing. PG not ANY veteran, nor did Scouty
infer it in OP. It was about a unique and specific veteran. One who was MVP 3 years ago, maintains excellent physical conditioning, played in a toxic culture last few years and was killing it in the first 1/3 of this season. And I never said I’d disagree if Boone, who knows the situation best, benched him. Scouty asked what we thought.

Tossing straw men in the fire beneath you.

We are saying much the same thing...but differently.
Your comment that “The game” doesn’t make any decisions, people do" is correct and aligns perfectly with what I have stated" The game does not care about any of those things. The game is about outcomes -nothing else."
Further, I correctly stated that "once a manager believes a player should be benched based on lack of productivity, that decision must be made regardless of tangential factor".
The decision should not be set aside nor second guessed due to contract status, or "legacy", or "embarrassment", or other non-baseball related considerations.
Is a player the best available option, period?
That should drive the decision.
A little perplexing that you dispute or struggle with a very straightforward proposition on my part.

[Melville]

I did the math... 163 average.. 2 HRs and a 509. OPS during this stretch

Things just keep getting worse. Friday's loss to the crosstown Mets dropped the Yankees to 48-40 and two games out of first place in the AL East. Goldschmidt went 0-for-4, continuing a stretch where he's only recorded 16 hits in his last 98 at-bats.

If the Yankees feel a lineup overhaul is necessary, could that mean Goldschmidt finds himself on the bench? The Yankees wouldn't really make that move, would they?

No, probably not. Very rarely do the Yankees bench veterans, let alone a former NL MVP like Goldschmidt, amid prolonged slumps. Manager Aaron Boone has instead created the impression that he only sits players if he truly feels they can't turn things around, which is why Joey Gallo barely lasted a year with the Yankees.

He got old fast. It happens.

Happened to Arenado at a younger age.

Correct on both points.
An awful lot of miles on those tires.
They can only be rotated so many times.....

[CorneliusWolfe]

I did the math... 163 average.. 2 HRs and a 509. OPS during this stretch

Things just keep getting worse. Friday's loss to the crosstown Mets dropped the Yankees to 48-40 and two games out of first place in the AL East. Goldschmidt went 0-for-4, continuing a stretch where he's only recorded 16 hits in his last 98 at-bats.

If the Yankees feel a lineup overhaul is necessary, could that mean Goldschmidt finds himself on the bench? The Yankees wouldn't really make that move, would they?

No, probably not. Very rarely do the Yankees bench veterans, let alone a former NL MVP like Goldschmidt, amid prolonged slumps. Manager Aaron Boone has instead created the impression that he only sits players if he truly feels they can't turn things around, which is why Joey Gallo barely lasted a year with the Yankees.

Benching old (great) vets a hard call. You don’t want to embarrass a guy who’s been a face of the game and great ambassador for the sport and you never know if they have a shot of that MVP magic left, like he flashed the first few months.

I’d probably wait and see if he gets back at it after the break. Last 6 weeks in a tight race maybe not.

Disagree.
If the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to bench a player, that reality is not altered by tangential factors.
The game does not care about a player's age.
Or contract.
Or legacy.
Or potential embarrassment.
The game reflects performance only.
And I am only and always about the game.

Correct baseball decisions aren’t always of the short sighted and cold calculating variety. People, not robots (TLR).

We’re talking about a highly respected player who has performed, and provided value on a contender, THIS season. Maybe he’s a little banged up and the break will do him some good. It’s why it exists. Not talking about guaranteed playing time the rest of the year…just a little more leash.

Your method as a GM would make other veterans that could be useful to your team avoid signing like the plague. I’ve got you back down to 90%. Still really good though.

Scouty raised the question of benching a veteran.
Which is the context of my reply.
The discussion is not about the usefulness of veterans to the roster.
They are.
Nor about "respect".
Some have certainly earned it.
And yes, players can be banged up - at any age.
Not the point.
The game does not care about any of those things.
The game is about outcomes -nothing else.
Bottom line - once a manager believes a player should be benched based on lack of productivity, that decision must be made regardless of tangential factors.
Is Goldschmidt at the point?
I don't know.
I would need to watch the Yankees for perhaps 7-10 days to form a conclusion.
Boone, of course, has been observing far longer.
And if, in his judgement, Goldschmidt is not the best starting option to provide production, he should act on that without consideration to the other factors under discussion here.

“The game” doesn’t make any decisions, people do. And they must assess WHO they are benching or releasing. PG not ANY veteran, nor did Scouty
infer it in OP. It was about a unique and specific veteran. One who was MVP 3 years ago, maintains excellent physical conditioning, played in a toxic culture last few years and was killing it in the first 1/3 of this season. And I never said I’d disagree if Boone, who knows the situation best, benched him. Scouty asked what we thought.

Tossing straw men in the fire beneath you.

We are saying much the same thing...but differently.
Your comment that “The game” doesn’t make any decisions, people do" is correct and aligns perfectly with what I have stated" The game does not care about any of those things. The game is about outcomes -nothing else."
Further, I correctly stated that "once a manager believes a player should be benched based on lack of productivity, that decision must be made regardless of tangential factor".
The decision should not be set aside nor second guessed due to contract status, or "legacy", or "embarrassment", or other non-baseball related considerations.
Is a player the best available option, period?
That should drive the decision.
A little perplexing that you dispute or struggle with a very straightforward proposition on my part.

Perplexed that you’re perplexed. No one argued the manager should not make prudent decisions. Straw man tactic.

Manager should do what is necessary. The question was, would they really do it. It was a solicitation of prediction and opinion.

The “tangential factors” you keep throwing back were not stated as justification for the decision.
Just human factors that make it a tough call and delicate situation. Probably why this topic was created in the first place.

You telling us all about how a sociopathic GM would operate still never answered the question. I take it you mean, yes they will/should bench him?