Cubs

[ramfandan]

They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

You do realize that the Cubs have the 6th highest payroll in baseball.. about $192 M + this year compared to St. Louis of $135 M 13th ranked .
City of Chicago has about 10 times the population of St. Louis . 2.7 M people in city of Chicago .. 300,000 in city of St. Louis

[OldRed]

They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

You do realize that the Cubs have the 6th highest payroll in baseball.. about $192 M + this year compared to St. Louis of $135 M 13th ranked .
City of Chicago has about 10 times the population of St. Louis . 2.7 M people in city of Chicago .. 300,000 in city of St. Louis

I didn't mention payroll. My topic was on quality of their team.

But since you brought it up the subject:

Cardinals are averaging 30,000 per game in 2025
Cardinals averaged 35,500 per game in 2024
Cardinals averaged 40,000 per game in 2023

So, quality of the team has a direct effect on attendance.

[CCard]

They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

Clearly they are the better team, though the better team still can lose. But the Cards could have signed Shota and chose to cheap out. Pitching wins, always has, always will.

According to you, Shota has no say in where he signed...

I expect a post like that from you. The Cards had him in town and could have made him a great offer and he would have signed most likely. Instead they slow walked him and didn't offer him a great deal and the rest is history. He went over to the Cubs and they signed him. Any more brilliant dialogue?

I stand by my statement. Shota makes a decision too. I can only explain it to you, I can't make you understand.

You make massive ASSumptions of what did/didn't/could have happened...

Simple. Cards had the chance to sign him. They didn't. The Cubs had a chance to sign him. They did. No assumptions changes the facts. Argue with that.

[CCard]

They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

Clearly they are the better team, though the better team still can lose. But the Cards could have signed Shota and chose to cheap out. Pitching wins, always has, always will.

According to you, Shota has no say in where he signed...

I expect a post like that from you. The Cards had him in town and could have made him a great offer and he would have signed most likely. Instead they slow walked him and didn't offer him a great deal and the rest is history. He went over to the Cubs and they signed him. Any more brilliant dialogue?

They didn’t “slow” walk him, if anything they worked too aggressively in the offseason. Imanaga didn’t sign with the Cubs until mid January. By that point they had signed Gray, Lynn, and Gibson. They obviously felt like he’d either get more money or that he wasn’t really wanting to come to St. Louis.

LOL...Did he leave town without an offer? Yes. Did they go out and get two bandaids instead of signing him, the two bandaids are gone and he's still top tier pitching for the Cubs. Right? After he left town without a contract, he went to the Cubs, right? They obviously felt like going cheap. They went cheap and now we see the results. Right? Stop making excuses for poor ownership decisions. The facts aren't "fake news". They never were.

He made less money than either Gibson or Lynn last season and less the last 2 seasons than those two pitchers combined last season.

I saw on baseball reference that he has both a team option and a player option for 2026, does that mean he could be a FA after this year if he declined the player option?

I don't know. I was thinking he signed a 3 year contract but I don't know the specifics. After seeing how well he done, if it is a player option I'd assume he'd decline it and make bank as a free agent. You've got to believe with what he's shown that he's headed for a nice payday. Seems like I remember the Cards inferring that he was too short or some bull like that. Maybe I'm wrong so don't quote me.

[scoutyjones2]

They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

Clearly they are the better team, though the better team still can lose. But the Cards could have signed Shota and chose to cheap out. Pitching wins, always has, always will.

According to you, Shota has no say in where he signed...

I expect a post like that from you. The Cards had him in town and could have made him a great offer and he would have signed most likely. Instead they slow walked him and didn't offer him a great deal and the rest is history. He went over to the Cubs and they signed him. Any more brilliant dialogue?

I stand by my statement. Shota makes a decision too. I can only explain it to you, I can't make you understand.

You make massive ASSumptions of what did/didn't/could have happened...

Simple. Cards had the chance to sign him. They didn't. The Cubs had a chance to sign him. They did. No assumptions changes the facts. Argue with that.

glad you came around

[CCard]

They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

Clearly they are the better team, though the better team still can lose. But the Cards could have signed Shota and chose to cheap out. Pitching wins, always has, always will.

According to you, Shota has no say in where he signed...

I expect a post like that from you. The Cards had him in town and could have made him a great offer and he would have signed most likely. Instead they slow walked him and didn't offer him a great deal and the rest is history. He went over to the Cubs and they signed him. Any more brilliant dialogue?

I stand by my statement. Shota makes a decision too. I can only explain it to you, I can't make you understand.

You make massive ASSumptions of what did/didn't/could have happened...

Simple. Cards had the chance to sign him. They didn't. The Cubs had a chance to sign him. They did. No assumptions changes the facts. Argue with that.

glad you came around

Yeah, that don't fly. Nice try though.

[Northsider76]

As of June 23rd, the Cubs have the 9th best bullpen ERA at 3.53. And they improved it in this series. The Cards were 16th at 3.94. So yeah, the Cubs have had the better bullpen and it passes the eye test also. Other than Shota and Boyd, I do think the Cards have the better starting staff due to injury. I would be shocked if the Cubs didn't add a top of the rotation pitcher at the deadline. They have the assets to get that done.

Hitting-wise, the Cubs had one of the best offenses in the first quarter of the season and we're averaging a ridiculous 6 runs per game. That wasn't sustainable obviously. But overall, they are top 5 in most metrics and the Cards are mostly top 10 except in two very important stats... Slug and OPS.

So it's not a credible argument to say the Cards are a better overall team - at this point in the season. It is a long season however.

Cubs bullpen has the worst K/9 in baseball, is 11th in BB/9, 24th in K/BB ratio, and 13th in batting average against. Their WHIP is 13th in the game. Yet all of that said, they are 5th lowest in ERA. So I wouldn’t say it really “passes the eye test”. To this point they have been fortunate.

They don't mind putting the ball on the ground in front of that defense.