Oli Marmol and attendance

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While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

Addendum to No. 2: Boomers and their parents are dying off or getting disabled, and the next generations just do not care as much about baseball.

[hugeCardfan]

(snip)

We both though agreed that his demeanor and delivery are off-putting to a fan. He presents as egotistical and surly in most interview sessions. He bristles at any hint of criticism. There ar times in the dugout where he looks like a fanboy jock riding players after they do something successful.

I believe his initial missteps with Contreras, O'Neill, etc., combined with the aura he gives off as mentioned in paragraph 2, are reasons why some fans have no interest in going to the ballpark.

(snip)

Change "he and his" to "TLR", this could have been written 15-25 years ago.... Tony was a very good manager when he had good teams. He lost the last 3 years in Oakland and 2 of his years with St Louis. Walt Jocketty helped him build good teams and win a couple championships. It took him 11 years. He should have won in 2004 and 2005, two of the best teams he ever managed. Tony's misstep with Rolen was legendary.

Fans decide if they want to hate a manager and little can change their minds. I'll never forget the "Fire Duncussa" banner flying over Roger Dean Stadium during the 2004 Spring Training.

Oli has done a credible job with above .500 last year and this year.

[Youboughtit]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

I would still go watch an elite young superstar in his prime regardless of record. Some go to witness greatness

[scoutyjones2]

They were talking on ESPN 101 last week about the causes of poor attendance even when the team was showing signs of life. They went through weather, lack of discretionary funds, lack of stars, etc. Towards the end of the discussion they brought up Marmol/Mo and felt that while fans may blame Mo, they said Oli wasn't the reason fans have soured on the team.

I could not disagree more with that thought. My enthusiasm level has dropped significantly during the Marmol era. Giving him the job in the first place was ridiculous but extending him after a horrible, losing season to me made this organization look like a non serious joke. When your team is lacking Stars having a big league level manager in the dugout at least gives the appearance of having an adult in charge.

Oli is a clown that should not have gotten the job and most certainly shouldn't have kept the job after his repeated fumblings. Step one and drawing fans back to the park is getting a known commodity in the dugout.

Nobody goes to, or doesn't go to a game because of the manager ..

[cardinalsfever44]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

Add the carryover effect from Covid. People got used to staying home and watching things on TV or their computervthat they used to go to in person.

Yep. Most every household has a huge tv with food and beer way cheaper than the stadium.

I love going to games, but man it is an event. Work all day, get family of 4 all ready and down to the game in a full rush, pay $20+ to park, pay easily $100+ if the 4 of us eat/drink anything at the game, cost of tickets, get home after 10pm, get up for work at 6am.

I honestly don't care about the money as much as I do about just the general "not relaxing at all" feeling I have going to a weekday game. We still get to a couple games each year, but I sure do prefer just catching the game on my nice comfy couch with my own food and beers

[Hoosier59]

I believe a lot of fans are still peeved about the lack of effort from the team in the off season. Some of us aren’t that surprised about the way the season is playing out. There is talent here, and it always depended on whether that talent would start to be realized or not. The thing is, ownership didn’t really care whether they won this year or not. I’m sure they are very pleased with the way things are playing out, but it was and still is wholly about the money with them. It’s going to be real interesting what they do at the trade deadline. On the business side, there are some players that they should move, but with them looking like a playoff team, will they risk moving them? and will they bring in additional players that would help them have a better chance in the playoffs, but raise payroll?
An ownership that really wanted to win would definitely add needed players and fill this teams weak spots for the playoff run.
Attendance is low because most fans that are staying away , don’t feel that ownership wants to win badly enough to spend what is needed for them to do that. There will be some players available at the deadline, that would make the Cardinals a much better team, but ownership won’t acquire them. Garrett Hampson is the type of moves they’re willing to make.

[Goldfan]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

I don’t think cost is #1. I know countless people who have turned down FREE tics because solely tired of BDW/MO
1. BDW/MO
2. Safety
3. Popularity
4. Cost

[JuanAgosto]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

I would still go watch an elite young superstar in his prime regardless of record. Some go to witness greatness

I agree with this.

[JuanAgosto]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

I don’t think cost is #1. I know countless people who have turned down FREE tics because solely tired of BDW/MO
1. BDW/MO
2. Safety
3. Popularity
4. Cost

I agree, Goldfan. I wasn't really ranking my reasons. Just a list of causes.

[Goldfan]

I believe a lot of fans are still peeved about the lack of effort from the team in the off season. Some of us aren’t that surprised about the way the season is playing out. There is talent here, and it always depended on whether that talent would start to be realized or not. The thing is, ownership didn’t really care whether they won this year or not. I’m sure they are very pleased with the way things are playing out, but it was and still is wholly about the money with them. It’s going to be real interesting what they do at the trade deadline. On the business side, there are some players that they should move, but with them looking like a playoff team, will they risk moving them? and will they bring in additional players that would help them have a better chance in the playoffs, but raise payroll?
An ownership that really wanted to win would definitely add needed players and fill this teams weak spots for the playoff run.
Attendance is low because most fans that are staying away , don’t feel that ownership wants to win badly enough to spend what is needed for them to do that. There will be some players available at the deadline, that would make the Cardinals a much better team, but ownership won’t acquire them. Garrett Hampson is the type of moves they’re willing to make.

If they don’t make a move here then we’ve Been correct about BDW and fans will stay away. A real effort to win needs to be seen

[Bad14]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

I would still go watch an elite young superstar in his prime regardless of record. Some go to witness greatness

I agree with this.

I think there's something to there not be any stars

[Rojo Johnson]

Bill tolerates failure/mediocrity from his POBO and manager. As long as he does that, he has lost me. I watch the games unburdened by the thought of winning or losing. I just don’t care. The team’s record is irrelevant and so is my fandom. I can’t live and die with them like I did in the past. Try as I might. It’s no longer in my heart. You’re stupid, Bill. Really stupid.

[JuanAgosto]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

I would still go watch an elite young superstar in his prime regardless of record. Some go to witness greatness

I agree with this.

I think there's something to there not be any stars

Do you think it's due to BDW not extending huge contracts, Mo being unable to close major free agent signings, or not wanting to play in StL (or for Marmol)?

[Bad14]

Frankly, I think it's hard for St. Louis to compete with the coasts and Chicago. It doesnt help that DeWitt is cheap. If Oli managed the Dodgers the same players would have signed there. I'm not a fan of his but I find it hard to believe players aren't coming because of him.

[Goldfan]

Frankly, I think it's hard for St. Louis to compete with the coasts and Chicago. It doesnt help that DeWitt is cheap. If Oli managed the Dodgers the same players would have signed there. I'm not a fan of his but I find it hard to believe players aren't coming because of him.

Do the math. These easily replaced burdens on the team combine for a stud contract

NA….25mil
Miles….18mil
Matz….10mil
Fedde…7.5mil

You can’t find an elite bat for 62mil per
MO loves wasting payroll on chit that can be replaced easily than he and Cranny cries that BDW can NEVER afford an elite player
Fake news

[Bad14]

Frankly, I think it's hard for St. Louis to compete with the coasts and Chicago. It doesnt help that DeWitt is cheap. If Oli managed the Dodgers the same players would have signed there. I'm not a fan of his but I find it hard to believe players aren't coming because of him.

Do the math. These easily replaced burdens on the team combine for a stud contract

NA….25mil
Miles….18mil
Matz….10mil
Fedde…7.5mil

You can’t find an elite bat for 62mil per
MO loves wasting payroll on chit that can be replaced easily than he and Cranny cries that BDW can NEVER afford an elite player
Fake news

Did you miss the part where I said BDW is cheap?