ClassicO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2025 08:56 am
Statcast - it's crazy that he has all this ability and still lacks pitch recognition and has a batting stance that sux. Change to the Pujols stance! What worked before (minors) doesn't translate to the Bigs. (Business axiom: "what got you here won't get you there").
Sprint Speed
1. Scott - 30.1
2. Walker - 28.7
MLB Batting - Average Bat Speed
1. Cruz, Oneil - 78.5
2. Caminero, Junior - 78.1
3. Walker, Jordan - 77.6
4. Adell, Jo - 77.5
5. Judge, Aaron - 76.8
(Note - he and Adell were top-5 prospects, and both have struggled despite the stats.)
He's now a -1 OAA - 2nd to last on the team ahead of now departed Barrero. So the fielding has tumbled as well.
Why did he regress from his first season? Figure that out and you solve everything. My guess is the plugged him into a computer program instead of just letting him do what he had been doing.
Teams figured out he couldn't lay off low breaking balls.
It’s the low strike under the zone that’s killing him. Umps are penalizing him for being so big and calling a massive zone on him, vertically and horizontally.
I’ve seen many times where he correctly recognizes and lays off and gets rung up anyway. Can’t blame him for chasing.
As far as the “Pujols stance” thing. Scouty is right about it not helping with pitch recognition, but maybe a stance tweak could help him seem “smaller” so to speak, instead of being so upright thus showing off his size.
A little smoke and mirrors/optics change might be his only hope for a fair zone. He doesn’t need an elite eye with his tools and peripherals to be dangerous, but he does need a fighting chance.
ClassicO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2025 08:56 am
Statcast - it's crazy that he has all this ability and still lacks pitch recognition and has a batting stance that sux. Change to the Pujols stance! What worked before (minors) doesn't translate to the Bigs. (Business axiom: "what got you here won't get you there").
Sprint Speed
1. Scott - 30.1
2. Walker - 28.7
MLB Batting - Average Bat Speed
1. Cruz, Oneil - 78.5
2. Caminero, Junior - 78.1
3. Walker, Jordan - 77.6
4. Adell, Jo - 77.5
5. Judge, Aaron - 76.8
(Note - he and Adell were top-5 prospects, and both have struggled despite the stats.)
He's now a -1 OAA - 2nd to last on the team ahead of now departed Barrero. So the fielding has tumbled as well.
Why did he regress from his first season? Figure that out and you solve everything. My guess is the plugged him into a computer program instead of just letting him do what he had been doing.
Teams figured out he couldn't lay off low breaking balls.
It’s the low strike under the zone that’s killing him. Umps are penalizing him for being so big and calling a massive zone on him, vertically and horizontally.
I’ve seen many times where he correctly recognizes and lays off and gets rung up anyway. Can’t blame him for chasing.
As far as the “Pujols stance” thing. Scouty is right about it not helping with pitch recognition, but maybe a stance tweak could help him seem “smaller” so to speak, instead of being so upright thus showing off his size.
A little smoke and mirrors/optics change might be his only hope for a fair zone. He doesn’t need an elite eye with his tools and peripherals to be dangerous, but he does need a fighting chance.
This is plausible and if true, will definitely hurt by losing strikes, hence pitches. Nice thought.
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑25 Jun 2025 09:53 am
Brilliant! Change to the "Pujols stance" even though your baseball pitch recognition sucks... that will do it!
You're a riot, Mr. Negative. You must be a blast at a party, telling everyone how dumb they are, especially when they realize the source of the criticism is a curmudgeon who offers nothing positive but criticizes things he doesn't understand.
Oh yeah, that can't happen because you don't get invited to parties (or anywhere).
PS - a stance that isn't straight up and open makes it hard, even with poor pitch recognition, to reach any outside breaking ball, or allow you to compensate once you do recognize it. Watch and see if he doesn't adjust - or fail.
ClassicO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2025 08:56 am
Statcast - it's crazy that he has all this ability and still lacks pitch recognition and has a batting stance that sux. Change to the Pujols stance! What worked before (minors) doesn't translate to the Bigs. (Business axiom: "what got you here won't get you there").
Sprint Speed
1. Scott - 30.1
2. Walker - 28.7
MLB Batting - Average Bat Speed
1. Cruz, Oneil - 78.5
2. Caminero, Junior - 78.1
3. Walker, Jordan - 77.6
4. Adell, Jo - 77.5
5. Judge, Aaron - 76.8
(Note - he and Adell were top-5 prospects, and both have struggled despite the stats.)
He's now a -1 OAA - 2nd to last on the team ahead of now departed Barrero. So the fielding has tumbled as well.
Why did he regress from his first season? Figure that out and you solve everything. My guess is the plugged him into a computer program instead of just letting him do what he had been doing.
Teams figured out he couldn't lay off low breaking balls.
It’s the low strike under the zone that’s killing him. Umps are penalizing him for being so big and calling a massive zone on him, vertically and horizontally.
I’ve seen many times where he correctly recognizes and lays off and gets rung up anyway. Can’t blame him for chasing.
As far as the “Pujols stance” thing. Scouty is right about it not helping with pitch recognition, but maybe a stance tweak could help him seem “smaller” so to speak, instead of being so upright thus showing off his size.
A little smoke and mirrors/optics change might be his only hope for a fair zone. He doesn’t need an elite eye with his tools and peripherals to be dangerous, but he does need a fighting chance.
This is plausible and if true, will definitely hurt by losing strikes, hence pitches. Nice thought.
It's true. I actually parsed through the data and ran the numbers earlier this season. He was, at the time, tied for 17th worst in MLB at receiving strikes for pitches thrown outside of the MLB K-zone. Doesn't change the fact the kid has let about 300 center-cut fastballs elude him but his size has clearly worked against him. Here's the link to when I posted the results. viewtopic.php?p=13042180#p13042180
ClassicO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2025 08:56 am
Statcast - it's crazy that he has all this ability and still lacks pitch recognition and has a batting stance that sux. Change to the Pujols stance! What worked before (minors) doesn't translate to the Bigs. (Business axiom: "what got you here won't get you there").
Sprint Speed
1. Scott - 30.1
2. Walker - 28.7
MLB Batting - Average Bat Speed
1. Cruz, Oneil - 78.5
2. Caminero, Junior - 78.1
3. Walker, Jordan - 77.6
4. Adell, Jo - 77.5
5. Judge, Aaron - 76.8
(Note - he and Adell were top-5 prospects, and both have struggled despite the stats.)
He's now a -1 OAA - 2nd to last on the team ahead of now departed Barrero. So the fielding has tumbled as well.
Why did he regress from his first season? Figure that out and you solve everything. My guess is the plugged him into a computer program instead of just letting him do what he had been doing.
They gave him a big league job before he was ready and properly developed. They ignored all the warning signs and promoted him because he was ranked highly and they wanted a PR win.
They tried to skip steps in the development process and it bit them in the rear.
But he was a legit MLB hitter his first season. Perhaps the "steps in the development process" are what messed him up. Too much thinking and no enough reacting to what he sees.
ClassicO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2025 08:56 am
Statcast - it's crazy that he has all this ability and still lacks pitch recognition and has a batting stance that sux. Change to the Pujols stance! What worked before (minors) doesn't translate to the Bigs. (Business axiom: "what got you here won't get you there").
Sprint Speed
1. Scott - 30.1
2. Walker - 28.7
MLB Batting - Average Bat Speed
1. Cruz, Oneil - 78.5
2. Caminero, Junior - 78.1
3. Walker, Jordan - 77.6
4. Adell, Jo - 77.5
5. Judge, Aaron - 76.8
(Note - he and Adell were top-5 prospects, and both have struggled despite the stats.)
He's now a -1 OAA - 2nd to last on the team ahead of now departed Barrero. So the fielding has tumbled as well.
Why did he regress from his first season? Figure that out and you solve everything. My guess is the plugged him into a computer program instead of just letting him do what he had been doing.
They gave him a big league job before he was ready and properly developed. They ignored all the warning signs and promoted him because he was ranked highly and they wanted a PR win.
They tried to skip steps in the development process and it bit them in the rear.
But he was a legit MLB hitter his first season. Perhaps the "steps in the development process" are what messed him up. Too much thinking and no enough reacting to what he sees.
You keep saying he was legit as if it's just a static state that a player stays in once they reach it. Baseball history is littered with rookies who came up and did well their first season, then never attained that level once pitchers adjusted.
Pitchers and batters are locked in an arms race. The best players are whoever made the last adjustment. Walker hasn't even made the first adjustment.
ClassicO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2025 08:56 am
Statcast - it's crazy that he has all this ability and still lacks pitch recognition and has a batting stance that sux. Change to the Pujols stance! What worked before (minors) doesn't translate to the Bigs. (Business axiom: "what got you here won't get you there").
Sprint Speed
1. Scott - 30.1
2. Walker - 28.7
MLB Batting - Average Bat Speed
1. Cruz, Oneil - 78.5
2. Caminero, Junior - 78.1
3. Walker, Jordan - 77.6
4. Adell, Jo - 77.5
5. Judge, Aaron - 76.8
(Note - he and Adell were top-5 prospects, and both have struggled despite the stats.)
He's now a -1 OAA - 2nd to last on the team ahead of now departed Barrero. So the fielding has tumbled as well.
Why did he regress from his first season? Figure that out and you solve everything. My guess is the plugged him into a computer program instead of just letting him do what he had been doing.
They gave him a big league job before he was ready and properly developed. They ignored all the warning signs and promoted him because he was ranked highly and they wanted a PR win.
They tried to skip steps in the development process and it bit them in the rear.
But he was a legit MLB hitter his first season. Perhaps the "steps in the development process" are what messed him up. Too much thinking and no enough reacting to what he sees.
You keep saying he was legit as if it's just a static state that a player stays in once they reach it. Baseball history is littered with rookies who came up and did well their first season, then never attained that level once pitchers adjusted.
Pitchers and batters are locked in an arms race. The best players are whoever made the last adjustment. Walker hasn't even made the first adjustment.
That's possible but in Walker's case I don't think that's the reason. He was much better in milb in 2022 than in 2024. That's not because minor league pitching got better. They got inside his head with all the computer nonsense and he forgot what was working. Willie McGee told a story similar to that when he first arrived in St Louis. He thanked Dave Ricketts for stopping another coach who was trying to change his swing.
ClassicO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2025 08:56 am
Statcast - it's crazy that he has all this ability and still lacks pitch recognition and has a batting stance that sux. Change to the Pujols stance! What worked before (minors) doesn't translate to the Bigs. (Business axiom: "what got you here won't get you there").
Sprint Speed
1. Scott - 30.1
2. Walker - 28.7
MLB Batting - Average Bat Speed
1. Cruz, Oneil - 78.5
2. Caminero, Junior - 78.1
3. Walker, Jordan - 77.6
4. Adell, Jo - 77.5
5. Judge, Aaron - 76.8
(Note - he and Adell were top-5 prospects, and both have struggled despite the stats.)
He's now a -1 OAA - 2nd to last on the team ahead of now departed Barrero. So the fielding has tumbled as well.
Why did he regress from his first season? Figure that out and you solve everything. My guess is the plugged him into a computer program instead of just letting him do what he had been doing.
They gave him a big league job before he was ready and properly developed. They ignored all the warning signs and promoted him because he was ranked highly and they wanted a PR win.
They tried to skip steps in the development process and it bit them in the rear.
But he was a legit MLB hitter his first season. Perhaps the "steps in the development process" are what messed him up. Too much thinking and no enough reacting to what he sees.
You keep saying he was legit as if it's just a static state that a player stays in once they reach it. Baseball history is littered with rookies who came up and did well their first season, then never attained that level once pitchers adjusted.
Pitchers and batters are locked in an arms race. The best players are whoever made the last adjustment. Walker hasn't even made the first adjustment.
That's possible but in Walker's case I don't think that's the reason. He was much better in milb in 2022 than in 2024. That's not because minor league pitching got better. They got inside his head with all the computer nonsense and he forgot what was working. Willie McGee told a story similar to that when he first arrived in St Louis. He thanked Dave Ricketts for stopping another coach who was trying to change his swing.
Exactly. If he'd been at AA-AAA the past 2.5 seasons and never seen a regular season MLB at bat, he'd still be ahead of the curve having just turned 23 last month.
This is all on Mozeliak. And I'm not even a Mo basher. I used to think Mo basher's were nuts up until 2023, feeling that, overall, he'd done a fine job.
He should lose sleep at night for what he's done to this kid. lol
ClassicO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2025 08:56 am
Statcast - it's crazy that he has all this ability and still lacks pitch recognition and has a batting stance that sux. Change to the Pujols stance! What worked before (minors) doesn't translate to the Bigs. (Business axiom: "what got you here won't get you there").
Sprint Speed
1. Scott - 30.1
2. Walker - 28.7
MLB Batting - Average Bat Speed
1. Cruz, Oneil - 78.5
2. Caminero, Junior - 78.1
3. Walker, Jordan - 77.6
4. Adell, Jo - 77.5
5. Judge, Aaron - 76.8
(Note - he and Adell were top-5 prospects, and both have struggled despite the stats.)
He's now a -1 OAA - 2nd to last on the team ahead of now departed Barrero. So the fielding has tumbled as well.
Bat speed being fast can has its downside. It means its hard to adjust mid seing and can signify you are just swinging for the fences(although he does t hit homeruns).
Gorman has actually lowered his bat speed this year to try and lower his k rate.
ClassicO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2025 08:56 am
Statcast - it's crazy that he has all this ability and still lacks pitch recognition and has a batting stance that sux. Change to the Pujols stance! What worked before (minors) doesn't translate to the Bigs. (Business axiom: "what got you here won't get you there").
Sprint Speed
1. Scott - 30.1
2. Walker - 28.7
MLB Batting - Average Bat Speed
1. Cruz, Oneil - 78.5
2. Caminero, Junior - 78.1
3. Walker, Jordan - 77.6
4. Adell, Jo - 77.5
5. Judge, Aaron - 76.8
(Note - he and Adell were top-5 prospects, and both have struggled despite the stats.)
He's now a -1 OAA - 2nd to last on the team ahead of now departed Barrero. So the fielding has tumbled as well.
Why did he regress from his first season? Figure that out and you solve everything. My guess is the plugged him into a computer program instead of just letting him do what he had been doing.
They gave him a big league job before he was ready and properly developed. They ignored all the warning signs and promoted him because he was ranked highly and they wanted a PR win.
They tried to skip steps in the development process and it bit them in the rear.
Maybe they genuinely thought he was ready and it wasn’t because of his “ranking” or a “PR win”?
They very well may have thought that considering how lost they found themselves in the player development business.
Hard to ignore the “warning signs” when a guy is hitting .300 with patience and power at every level despite being among the youngest player at every level.
Maybe it’s more of the whole Billy Beane thing. He had never failed at any level until the MLB. And he really didn’t “fail” until 2024. He hit better in his rookie year than most around here expected him to hit.
He slashed .239/.348/.398 with an 89 wRC+ in AAA in 2023 and followed that with .263/.326/.427 - 94 wRC+ in AAA in 2024. That isn't ".300 with power at every level"... but they ignored it.
ClassicO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2025 08:56 am
Statcast - it's crazy that he has all this ability and still lacks pitch recognition and has a batting stance that sux. Change to the Pujols stance! What worked before (minors) doesn't translate to the Bigs. (Business axiom: "what got you here won't get you there").
Sprint Speed
1. Scott - 30.1
2. Walker - 28.7
MLB Batting - Average Bat Speed
1. Cruz, Oneil - 78.5
2. Caminero, Junior - 78.1
3. Walker, Jordan - 77.6
4. Adell, Jo - 77.5
5. Judge, Aaron - 76.8
(Note - he and Adell were top-5 prospects, and both have struggled despite the stats.)
He's now a -1 OAA - 2nd to last on the team ahead of now departed Barrero. So the fielding has tumbled as well.
Why did he regress from his first season? Figure that out and you solve everything. My guess is the plugged him into a computer program instead of just letting him do what he had been doing.
They gave him a big league job before he was ready and properly developed. They ignored all the warning signs and promoted him because he was ranked highly and they wanted a PR win.
They tried to skip steps in the development process and it bit them in the rear.
Maybe they genuinely thought he was ready and it wasn’t because of his “ranking” or a “PR win”?
They very well may have thought that considering how lost they found themselves in the player development business.
Hard to ignore the “warning signs” when a guy is hitting .300 with patience and power at every level despite being among the youngest player at every level.
Maybe it’s more of the whole Billy Beane thing. He had never failed at any level until the MLB. And he really didn’t “fail” until 2024. He hit better in his rookie year than most around here expected him to hit.
He slashed .239/.348/.398 with an 89 wRC+ in AAA in 2023 and followed that with .263/.326/.427 - 94 wRC+ in AAA in 2024. That isn't ".300 with power at every level"... but they ignored it.
ClassicO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2025 08:56 am
Statcast - it's crazy that he has all this ability and still lacks pitch recognition and has a batting stance that sux. Change to the Pujols stance! What worked before (minors) doesn't translate to the Bigs. (Business axiom: "what got you here won't get you there").
Sprint Speed
1. Scott - 30.1
2. Walker - 28.7
MLB Batting - Average Bat Speed
1. Cruz, Oneil - 78.5
2. Caminero, Junior - 78.1
3. Walker, Jordan - 77.6
4. Adell, Jo - 77.5
5. Judge, Aaron - 76.8
(Note - he and Adell were top-5 prospects, and both have struggled despite the stats.)
He's now a -1 OAA - 2nd to last on the team ahead of now departed Barrero. So the fielding has tumbled as well.
Why did he regress from his first season? Figure that out and you solve everything. My guess is the plugged him into a computer program instead of just letting him do what he had been doing.
They gave him a big league job before he was ready and properly developed. They ignored all the warning signs and promoted him because he was ranked highly and they wanted a PR win.
They tried to skip steps in the development process and it bit them in the rear.
Maybe they genuinely thought he was ready and it wasn’t because of his “ranking” or a “PR win”?
They very well may have thought that considering how lost they found themselves in the player development business.
Hard to ignore the “warning signs” when a guy is hitting .300 with patience and power at every level despite being among the youngest player at every level.
Maybe it’s more of the whole Billy Beane thing. He had never failed at any level until the MLB. And he really didn’t “fail” until 2024. He hit better in his rookie year than most around here expected him to hit.
He slashed .239/.348/.398 with an 89 wRC+ in AAA in 2023 and followed that with .263/.326/.427 - 94 wRC+ in AAA in 2024. That isn't ".300 with power at every level"... but they ignored it.
You were saying PR win which was when he was first brought up. And at that point there were no warning signs.
ClassicO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2025 08:56 am
Statcast - it's crazy that he has all this ability and still lacks pitch recognition and has a batting stance that sux. Change to the Pujols stance! What worked before (minors) doesn't translate to the Bigs. (Business axiom: "what got you here won't get you there").
Sprint Speed
1. Scott - 30.1
2. Walker - 28.7
MLB Batting - Average Bat Speed
1. Cruz, Oneil - 78.5
2. Caminero, Junior - 78.1
3. Walker, Jordan - 77.6
4. Adell, Jo - 77.5
5. Judge, Aaron - 76.8
(Note - he and Adell were top-5 prospects, and both have struggled despite the stats.)
He's now a -1 OAA - 2nd to last on the team ahead of now departed Barrero. So the fielding has tumbled as well.
Why did he regress from his first season? Figure that out and you solve everything. My guess is the plugged him into a computer program instead of just letting him do what he had been doing.
They gave him a big league job before he was ready and properly developed. They ignored all the warning signs and promoted him because he was ranked highly and they wanted a PR win.
They tried to skip steps in the development process and it bit them in the rear.
Maybe they genuinely thought he was ready and it wasn’t because of his “ranking” or a “PR win”?
They very well may have thought that considering how lost they found themselves in the player development business.
Hard to ignore the “warning signs” when a guy is hitting .300 with patience and power at every level despite being among the youngest player at every level.
Maybe it’s more of the whole Billy Beane thing. He had never failed at any level until the MLB. And he really didn’t “fail” until 2024. He hit better in his rookie year than most around here expected him to hit.
He slashed .239/.348/.398 with an 89 wRC+ in AAA in 2023 and followed that with .263/.326/.427 - 94 wRC+ in AAA in 2024. That isn't ".300 with power at every level"... but they ignored it.
You were saying PR win which was when he was first brought up. And at that point there were no warning signs.
He had a .299 on-base percentage in Spring Training with a 15:2 strikeout to walk ratio. That screams "not ready" but they ignored it.
He started that Spring 9-18 and they got ahead of themselves. He went 4 for his last 33 that Spring. He showed zero signs of being ready for the majors.
ClassicO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2025 08:56 am
Statcast - it's crazy that he has all this ability and still lacks pitch recognition and has a batting stance that sux. Change to the Pujols stance! What worked before (minors) doesn't translate to the Bigs. (Business axiom: "what got you here won't get you there").
Sprint Speed
1. Scott - 30.1
2. Walker - 28.7
MLB Batting - Average Bat Speed
1. Cruz, Oneil - 78.5
2. Caminero, Junior - 78.1
3. Walker, Jordan - 77.6
4. Adell, Jo - 77.5
5. Judge, Aaron - 76.8
(Note - he and Adell were top-5 prospects, and both have struggled despite the stats.)
He's now a -1 OAA - 2nd to last on the team ahead of now departed Barrero. So the fielding has tumbled as well.
Why did he regress from his first season? Figure that out and you solve everything. My guess is the plugged him into a computer program instead of just letting him do what he had been doing.
They gave him a big league job before he was ready and properly developed. They ignored all the warning signs and promoted him because he was ranked highly and they wanted a PR win.
They tried to skip steps in the development process and it bit them in the rear.
Maybe they genuinely thought he was ready and it wasn’t because of his “ranking” or a “PR win”?
They very well may have thought that considering how lost they found themselves in the player development business.
Hard to ignore the “warning signs” when a guy is hitting .300 with patience and power at every level despite being among the youngest player at every level.
Maybe it’s more of the whole Billy Beane thing. He had never failed at any level until the MLB. And he really didn’t “fail” until 2024. He hit better in his rookie year than most around here expected him to hit.
He slashed .239/.348/.398 with an 89 wRC+ in AAA in 2023 and followed that with .263/.326/.427 - 94 wRC+ in AAA in 2024. That isn't ".300 with power at every level"... but they ignored it.
You were saying PR win which was when he was first brought up. And at that point there were no warning signs.
He had a .299 on-base percentage in Spring Training with a 15:2 strikeout to walk ratio. That screams "not ready" but they ignored it.
He started that Spring 9-18 and they got ahead of themselves. He went 4 for his last 33 that Spring. He showed zero signs of being ready for the majors.
So now you’re reading everything into ST games? He was great at every level he had played at and did well in the AFL. They saw how he handled himself at ST and decided he was ready. He even had a .787 OPS his rookie year as a 20/21 year old, which is better than most here expected. I remember most saying if he had a .750 OPS it would be a success and he exceeded that. He has failed to adjust to MLB pitchers.
ClassicO wrote: ↑25 Jun 2025 08:56 am
Statcast - it's crazy that he has all this ability and still lacks pitch recognition and has a batting stance that sux. Change to the Pujols stance! What worked before (minors) doesn't translate to the Bigs. (Business axiom: "what got you here won't get you there").
Sprint Speed
1. Scott - 30.1
2. Walker - 28.7
MLB Batting - Average Bat Speed
1. Cruz, Oneil - 78.5
2. Caminero, Junior - 78.1
3. Walker, Jordan - 77.6
4. Adell, Jo - 77.5
5. Judge, Aaron - 76.8
(Note - he and Adell were top-5 prospects, and both have struggled despite the stats.)
He's now a -1 OAA - 2nd to last on the team ahead of now departed Barrero. So the fielding has tumbled as well.
