When was the shifting point when the Cardinals decided power didn’t matter ?

[BrockFloodMaris]

It’s mind boggling watching mlb highlights, looking at leader board power numbers, and realizing that the Cardinals arent playing the same sport as everyone else.

Goldy leaving zapped a lot of our power potential, but I hear ya. Garcia and Nunez didn’t make it here. That hurt as well. Gorman can’t hit a high fastball. Walker keeps stepping in the bucket.

[Cranny]

When I was on the back fields at Spring Training, there was a crowd behind the left field fence when Walker took BP. I had never seen that before for any player.

When Gorman was in high school, he won almost every national home run hitting contest for high school kids.

and so far hasn't come close to translating to this level. BP homers are cool

Exactly. It's a developmental problem that they're addressing.

[craviduce]

it's probably not a developmental problem. It's a philosophy problem...or not a problem...just a philosophy. We value contact over power and miss now in our drafts....look at 2022 through 2024 Drafts....Contact and EV and Walks over Power and Miss. Maybe one or two players will hit for power...but if they don't so be it.

[rockondlouie]

it's probably not a developmental problem. It's a philosophy problem...or not a problem...just a philosophy. We value contact over power and miss now in our drafts....look at 2022 through 2024 Drafts....Contact and EV and Walks over Power and Miss. Maybe one or two players will hit for power...but if they don't so be it.

As usual my man for info on the minor league system (duce) gives us great insight into what's really going on down below.

Thx buddy

[Cranny]

it's probably not a developmental problem. It's a philosophy problem...or not a problem...just a philosophy. We value contact over power and miss now in our drafts....look at 2022 through 2024 Drafts....Contact and EV and Walks over Power and Miss. Maybe one or two players will hit for power...but if they don't so be it.

Not so sure about that concept, Craviduce. Look at the past 7 years -

2018 - They took Gorman in the 1st round and Baker in the 2C round. Both power picks.
2019 - They took Fletcher as a power pick in the 2nd round
2020 - They took Walker in the 2nd round. Huge power potential
2021 - They took Baez in the 2nd round. Big power potential
2022 - They took Crooks, who had 11 HRs in 311 PAs for OU.
2023 - They took Davis in the 1st round, who had 21 HRs in 278 PAs for Arizona
2024 - They took Campos had 11 HRs in 284 PAs for ASU and Kloss had 19 HR in 272 PAs at U. of Cincinnati.

[craviduce]

it's probably not a developmental problem. It's a philosophy problem...or not a problem...just a philosophy. We value contact over power and miss now in our drafts....look at 2022 through 2024 Drafts....Contact and EV and Walks over Power and Miss. Maybe one or two players will hit for power...but if they don't so be it.

Not so sure about that concept, Craviduce. Look at the past 7 years -

2018 - They took Gorman in the 1st round and Baker in the 2C round. Both power picks.
2019 - They took Fletcher as a power pick in the 2nd round
2020 - They took Walker in the 2nd round. Huge power potential
2021 - They took Baez in the 2nd round. Big power potential
2022 - They took Crooks, who had 11 HRs in 311 PAs for OU.
2023 - They took Davis in the 1st round, who had 21 HRs in 278 PAs for Arizona
2024 - They took Campos had 11 HRs in 284 PAs for ASU and Kloss had 19 HR in 272 PAs at U. of Cincinnati.

the question was when was the shift....I provided the timeline, the players taken fit the pattern. Your new Hitting Coach, Brown fits the pattern.... HIT over Power.

And Campos is a terrible example, Cranny. If the player hits for power, so be it, Campos can do neither, he wasn't drafted for his bat, he was drafted b/c he could get low to the plate...and that backfired on the Cards, b/c he SUCKS as a catcher with a Pro Squad.

They've cornered/targeted Hit and High EV players the last 3 drafts, Crooks included. Ignore anything before 2022, because they changed approaches.

and don't cherry pick one player....look at all the hitters...there's a theme.


Church, Honeyman, Petrutz, Harris, Paige, Richardson, Crooks, Scott, Jobert, Gazdar, Martin, McGee, Madron....hit and EV over Power and Miss.

[Futuregm2]

it's probably not a developmental problem. It's a philosophy problem...or not a problem...just a philosophy. We value contact over power and miss now in our drafts....look at 2022 through 2024 Drafts....Contact and EV and Walks over Power and Miss. Maybe one or two players will hit for power...but if they don't so be it.

Not so sure about that concept, Craviduce. Look at the past 7 years -

2018 - They took Gorman in the 1st round and Baker in the 2C round. Both power picks.
2019 - They took Fletcher as a power pick in the 2nd round
2020 - They took Walker in the 2nd round. Huge power potential
2021 - They took Baez in the 2nd round. Big power potential
2022 - They took Crooks, who had 11 HRs in 311 PAs for OU.
2023 - They took Davis in the 1st round, who had 21 HRs in 278 PAs for Arizona
2024 - They took Campos had 11 HRs in 284 PAs for ASU and Kloss had 19 HR in 272 PAs at U. of Cincinnati.

the question was when was the shift....I provided the timeline, the players taken fit the pattern. Your new Hitting Coach, Brown fits the pattern.... HIT over Power.

And Campos is a terrible example, Cranny. If the player hits for power, so be it, Campos can do neither, he wasn't drafted for his bat, he was drafted b/c he could get low to the plate...and that backfired on the Cards, b/c he SUCKS as a catcher with a Pro Squad.

They've cornered/targeted Hit and High EV players the last 3 drafts, Crooks included. Ignore anything before 2022, because they changed approaches.

and don't cherry pick one player....look at all the hitters...there's a theme.


Church, Honeyman, Petrutz, Harris, Paige, Richardson, Crooks, Scott, Jobert, Gazdar, Martin, McGee, Madron....hit and EV over Power and Miss.

I did particularly enjoy the 11 HRs in 301 PAs in college being an example of a power hitter.

Like 402 players in college baseball that year had 11+ HRs.

And Crooks total was actually 9 in 311 PAs, not 11. The 402 becomes 602 players with 9+ HRs.

[imetsatchelpaige]

It’s mind boggling watching mlb highlights, looking at leader board power numbers, and realizing that the Cardinals arent playing the same sport as everyone else.

Tell that to Burleson.

[craviduce]

it's probably not a developmental problem. It's a philosophy problem...or not a problem...just a philosophy. We value contact over power and miss now in our drafts....look at 2022 through 2024 Drafts....Contact and EV and Walks over Power and Miss. Maybe one or two players will hit for power...but if they don't so be it.

Not so sure about that concept, Craviduce. Look at the past 7 years -

2018 - They took Gorman in the 1st round and Baker in the 2C round. Both power picks.
2019 - They took Fletcher as a power pick in the 2nd round
2020 - They took Walker in the 2nd round. Huge power potential
2021 - They took Baez in the 2nd round. Big power potential
2022 - They took Crooks, who had 11 HRs in 311 PAs for OU.
2023 - They took Davis in the 1st round, who had 21 HRs in 278 PAs for Arizona
2024 - They took Campos had 11 HRs in 284 PAs for ASU and Kloss had 19 HR in 272 PAs at U. of Cincinnati.

the question was when was the shift....I provided the timeline, the players taken fit the pattern. Your new Hitting Coach, Brown fits the pattern.... HIT over Power.

And Campos is a terrible example, Cranny. If the player hits for power, so be it, Campos can do neither, he wasn't drafted for his bat, he was drafted b/c he could get low to the plate...and that backfired on the Cards, b/c he SUCKS as a catcher with a Pro Squad.

They've cornered/targeted Hit and High EV players the last 3 drafts, Crooks included. Ignore anything before 2022, because they changed approaches.

and don't cherry pick one player....look at all the hitters...there's a theme.


Church, Honeyman, Petrutz, Harris, Paige, Richardson, Crooks, Scott, Jobert, Gazdar, Martin, McGee, Madron....hit and EV over Power and Miss.

I did particularly enjoy the 11 HRs in 301 PAs in college being an example of a power hitter.

Like 402 players in college baseball that year had 11+ HRs.

And Crooks total was actually 9 in 311 PAs, not 11. The 402 becomes 602 players with 9+ HRs.

and I forgot Ortiz...the poster child of Hit and EV

[Futuregm2]

It’s mind boggling watching mlb highlights, looking at leader board power numbers, and realizing that the Cardinals arent playing the same sport as everyone else.

Tell that to Burleson.

The guy with 11 doubles and 8 HR through our 78th game?

[Cranny]

it's probably not a developmental problem. It's a philosophy problem...or not a problem...just a philosophy. We value contact over power and miss now in our drafts....look at 2022 through 2024 Drafts....Contact and EV and Walks over Power and Miss. Maybe one or two players will hit for power...but if they don't so be it.

Not so sure about that concept, Craviduce. Look at the past 7 years -

2018 - They took Gorman in the 1st round and Baker in the 2C round. Both power picks.
2019 - They took Fletcher as a power pick in the 2nd round
2020 - They took Walker in the 2nd round. Huge power potential
2021 - They took Baez in the 2nd round. Big power potential
2022 - They took Crooks, who had 11 HRs in 311 PAs for OU.
2023 - They took Davis in the 1st round, who had 21 HRs in 278 PAs for Arizona
2024 - They took Campos had 11 HRs in 284 PAs for ASU and Kloss had 19 HR in 272 PAs at U. of Cincinnati.

the question was when was the shift....I provided the timeline, the players taken fit the pattern. Your new Hitting Coach, Brown fits the pattern.... HIT over Power.

And Campos is a terrible example, Cranny. If the player hits for power, so be it, Campos can do neither, he wasn't drafted for his bat, he was drafted b/c he could get low to the plate...and that backfired on the Cards, b/c he SUCKS as a catcher with a Pro Squad.

They've cornered/targeted Hit and High EV players the last 3 drafts, Crooks included. Ignore anything before 2022, because they changed approaches.

and don't cherry pick one player....look at all the hitters...there's a theme.


Church, Honeyman, Petrutz, Harris, Paige, Richardson, Crooks, Scott, Jobert, Gazdar, Martin, McGee, Madron....hit and EV over Power and Miss.

When you refer to 2023 and I point out that our 1st round pick that year hit 21 home runs in 278 PAs as a college junior, that's not cherry picking. It's just a fact that they went for power that year in the first round.

[Quincy Varnish]

League cracking down on roids was the shifting point. McGwire's Cardinals season record will stand for a long time.

You don’t say?

I think he was referring to team home runs? The record set in 1998 (223) lasted until 2000 (235)… still the team record, but it would be difficult to call that team “McGwire’s Cardinals”, as he only played in 89 games. Surprisingly the 2016 Cards came close to that record w/ 225 HR.

[craviduce]

it's probably not a developmental problem. It's a philosophy problem...or not a problem...just a philosophy. We value contact over power and miss now in our drafts....look at 2022 through 2024 Drafts....Contact and EV and Walks over Power and Miss. Maybe one or two players will hit for power...but if they don't so be it.

Not so sure about that concept, Craviduce. Look at the past 7 years -

2018 - They took Gorman in the 1st round and Baker in the 2C round. Both power picks.
2019 - They took Fletcher as a power pick in the 2nd round
2020 - They took Walker in the 2nd round. Huge power potential
2021 - They took Baez in the 2nd round. Big power potential
2022 - They took Crooks, who had 11 HRs in 311 PAs for OU.
2023 - They took Davis in the 1st round, who had 21 HRs in 278 PAs for Arizona
2024 - They took Campos had 11 HRs in 284 PAs for ASU and Kloss had 19 HR in 272 PAs at U. of Cincinnati.

the question was when was the shift....I provided the timeline, the players taken fit the pattern. Your new Hitting Coach, Brown fits the pattern.... HIT over Power.

And Campos is a terrible example, Cranny. If the player hits for power, so be it, Campos can do neither, he wasn't drafted for his bat, he was drafted b/c he could get low to the plate...and that backfired on the Cards, b/c he SUCKS as a catcher with a Pro Squad.

They've cornered/targeted Hit and High EV players the last 3 drafts, Crooks included. Ignore anything before 2022, because they changed approaches.

and don't cherry pick one player....look at all the hitters...there's a theme.


Church, Honeyman, Petrutz, Harris, Paige, Richardson, Crooks, Scott, Jobert, Gazdar, Martin, McGee, Madron....hit and EV over Power and Miss.

When you refer to 2023 and I point out that our 1st round pick that year hit 21 home runs in 278 PAs as a college junior, that's not cherry picking. It's just a fact that they went for power that year in the first round.

the draft is longer than 1 round....incredible fact, but true. Davis' selection does NOT indicate the Cards drafted Power the last 3 seasons...Again...use the list of players I provided above...they may have a hit a homer or 9 in college, but their profile is HIT and EV....not POWER and MISS.

This is big shift in our former drafting philosophy (2018-2021), where we believed power was the play....and it burned us more times than not

even Baez changed his hitting approach to Hit and EV...gone are his high Flyball %, this season he has more Ground Balls and Line Drives..less miss. Higher EV's for Baez

Incredible, the change the organization has under gone in Philosophy.

[Talkin' Baseball]

Did they decide it didn't matter, or did they decide they couldn't afford it?

[MizTruBlueLuvzU]

Stl has no true super stars on either of their major teams

[desertrat23]

Did they decide it didn't matter, or did they decide they couldn't afford it?

Couldn't, or wouldn't?