I Would Love To Help

[Talkin' Baseball]

I would love to help- but I can't. Most people aren't ready to hear it, or think about it. I said it before the season, and I'll say it again now- the Cardinals will finish in fourth place in the Central. In the stretch before the trade deadline, it will be easy to be fooled into thinking it will be different than that. It won't. Before the deadline we play a series against the Pirates, a series against the Nationals, a series against the Rockies, and a series against the Marlins. You can expect those to go much like the White Sox series that the Cardinals just swept. Make no mistake, the Cardinals did not play well, they just played a team that played less well.

Even with this being the case, I don't think the Cardinals will be holding a wildcard spot at the end of July. They will be hanging around- kind of close. There will be those saying, "We are in it. We should be buying, not selling". And, it's not just fans that will be saying that, the wishy-washy middling front office will be saying the same stuff. They will not do the things that need to be done for hope of some short-term benefit. (I can picture Charlie Brown running to kick that football now)

Here's the thing- immediately after the break- when we have added a relief pitcher, or two and a right handed platoon bat for the outfield we travel to San Diego for 3, to the Dodgers for 3, come home to play the Cubs for 3, get a respite against the Rockies for 3, before taking on the New York Yankees for 3. Do you think the Padres, Dodger, Cubs. and Yankees will make real upgrades? I do. They will be better then than they are now. Barely two weeks past the deadline this is going to look waay different. In September, we play 6 against the Giants, 3 against Seattle, 6 against the Brewers, 3 against the Reds, and close the season on the road with 3 against the Cubs. After the deadline, the Cardinals play 13 games against clearly bad teams.

If the team (and fans) could realize and accept this now, they could choose a different course. The team could trade players that need to be traded. They could trade players that didn't "need" to be traded, but should be traded- players who aren't rentals and could bring good returns. They could correct the clunky roster. They could have a clearly defined mission. Fans could enjoy the progress the team is making without anger and anxiety.

I would love to help- but I can't.

[Ike Hammett]

I would love to help- but I can't. Most people aren't ready to hear it, or think about it. I said it before the season, and I'll say it again now- the Cardinals will finish in fourth place in the Central. In the stretch before the trade deadline, it will be easy to be fooled into thinking it will be different than that. It won't. Before the deadline we play a series against the Pirates, a series against the Nationals, a series against the Rockies, and a series against the Marlins. You can expect those to go much like the White Sox series that the Cardinals just swept. Make no mistake, the Cardinals did not play well, they just played a team that played less well.

Even with this being the case, I don't think the Cardinals will be holding a wildcard spot at the end of July. They will be hanging around- kind of close. There will be those saying, "We are in it. We should be buying, not selling". And, it's not just fans that will be saying that, the wishy-washy middling front office will be saying the same stuff. They will not do the things that need to be done for hope of some short-term benefit. (I can picture Charlie Brown running to kick that football now)

Here's the thing- immediately after the break- when we have added a relief pitcher, or two and a right handed platoon bat for the outfield we travel to San Diego for 3, to the Dodgers for 3, come home to play the Cubs for 3, get a respite against the Rockies for 3, before taking on the New York Yankees for 3. Do you think the Padres, Dodger, Cubs. and Yankees will make real upgrades? I do. They will be better then than they are now. Barely two weeks past the deadline this is going to look waay different. In September, we play 6 against the Giants, 3 against Seattle, 6 against the Brewers, 3 against the Reds, and close the season on the road with 3 against the Cubs. After the deadline, the Cardinals play 13 games against clearly bad teams.

If the team (and fans) could realize and accept this now, they could choose a different course. The team could trade players that need to be traded. They could trade players that didn't "need" to be traded, but should be traded- players who aren't rentals and could bring good returns. They could correct the clunky roster. They could have a clearly defined mission. Fans could enjoy the progress the team is making without anger and anxiety.

I would love to help- but I can't.

So who do you want to trade? And what do you think you can get for them? I don't think anyone disagrees with basically what you are stating. The issue is the details and whether the juice is worth the squeeze. Making a few trades in "selling" might actually make them a better team and give more of a chance to make the postseason. Not sure anyone would disagree trading Mikolas or Fedde for example to get McGreevy in there and save some money.

[Talkin' Baseball]

I would love to help- but I can't. Most people aren't ready to hear it, or think about it. I said it before the season, and I'll say it again now- the Cardinals will finish in fourth place in the Central. In the stretch before the trade deadline, it will be easy to be fooled into thinking it will be different than that. It won't. Before the deadline we play a series against the Pirates, a series against the Nationals, a series against the Rockies, and a series against the Marlins. You can expect those to go much like the White Sox series that the Cardinals just swept. Make no mistake, the Cardinals did not play well, they just played a team that played less well.

Even with this being the case, I don't think the Cardinals will be holding a wildcard spot at the end of July. They will be hanging around- kind of close. There will be those saying, "We are in it. We should be buying, not selling". And, it's not just fans that will be saying that, the wishy-washy middling front office will be saying the same stuff. They will not do the things that need to be done for hope of some short-term benefit. (I can picture Charlie Brown running to kick that football now)

Here's the thing- immediately after the break- when we have added a relief pitcher, or two and a right handed platoon bat for the outfield we travel to San Diego for 3, to the Dodgers for 3, come home to play the Cubs for 3, get a respite against the Rockies for 3, before taking on the New York Yankees for 3. Do you think the Padres, Dodger, Cubs. and Yankees will make real upgrades? I do. They will be better then than they are now. Barely two weeks past the deadline this is going to look waay different. In September, we play 6 against the Giants, 3 against Seattle, 6 against the Brewers, 3 against the Reds, and close the season on the road with 3 against the Cubs. After the deadline, the Cardinals play 13 games against clearly bad teams.

If the team (and fans) could realize and accept this now, they could choose a different course. The team could trade players that need to be traded. They could trade players that didn't "need" to be traded, but should be traded- players who aren't rentals and could bring good returns. They could correct the clunky roster. They could have a clearly defined mission. Fans could enjoy the progress the team is making without anger and anxiety.

I would love to help- but I can't.

So who do you want to trade? And what do you think you can get for them? I don't think anyone disagrees with basically what you are stating. The issue is the details and whether the juice is worth the squeeze. Making a few trades in "selling" might actually make them a better team and give more of a chance to make the postseason. Not sure anyone would disagree trading Mikolas or Fedde for example to get McGreevy in there and save some money.

I have a lot of ideas about that. Maybe I'll post some stuff about that over the weekend.

[Futuregm2]

This team might be better after making the trades. After the deadline there is a real chance that McGreevy and Mathews are in the rotation joining Gray, Libby, and Mikolas/Pallante. The bullpen will likely lose Helsley, but that might be what likely 15-20 innings worth of relief they’re losing?

Btw, the return for a guy like Fedde or Mikolas or Matz is going to be next to nothing, so I’m not about to be mad at them if they keep them or not, because I don’t expect much more than a Jack Flaherty like deal (at best) and so far that trade has netted nothing for the MLB club. The bigger impact would be not having McGreevy and/or Mathews get MLB experience in August/September.

For anything else, I don’t expect that to happen until the offseason when Bloom takes full control.

[3dender]

In my dreams they trade Burleson for a decent prospect or two, but then I wake up and remember Mo hasn't been that bold in like half a decade.

[Mort Gage]

In my dreams they trade Burleson for a decent prospect or two, but then I wake up and remember Mo hasn't been that bold in like half a decade.

I could see them standing pat to attempt a push for a third wildcard in hopes of giving Mo a good sendoff. Not that I agree. It's possible nothing big happens until Bloom has full control in November. They have to get out of baseball purgatory.

[Talkin' Baseball]

In my dreams they trade Burleson for a decent prospect or two, but then I wake up and remember Mo hasn't been that bold in like half a decade.

I could see them standing pat to attempt a push for a third wildcard in hopes of giving Mo a good sendoff. Not that I agree. It's possible nothing big happens until Bloom has full control in November. They have to get out of baseball purgatory.

This would be the most on brand, or in character thing ever. Lethargy, mediocrity, irrelevancy have become the Cardinal Way. This is what the brand has become. We won't make the playoffs AND we won't fix the roster. The perfect Mo legacy. We can remember him that way.

[CorneliusWolfe]

In my dreams they trade Burleson for a decent prospect or two, but then I wake up and remember Mo hasn't been that bold in like half a decade.

Blasphemy.

[imadangman]

A good example is the 2016 Yankees. They flipped the team younger during the season, and were relatively in contention throughout the year. Nowhere near out of it. How you start is not how you finish. There's no reason you can't have Wetherholt in and Arenado out accomplished by August and the team may even still play well. Don't be afraid to shop Nootbaar. Gorman and Walker play every single game August and September. That's enough time for Bloom to "see" them and decide how to plan for 2026.

Oh, gotta have Helsley gone too. Too many teams needing closers. You could probably pull that off well before the deadline. You can't miss that.

[CorneliusWolfe]

Easy to side with the negative outlook in a game of failure but what I love about this game is some team that has no business doing so, seems to always make a run. But yeah, the odds say you’re probably right.

If Cards surpass Cubs and Brewers before the deadline, why not at least try to make a few moves that don’t mortgage the future, if said moves materialize? If you can rebuild/reset and attempt a run at the same time, why not?

[3dender]

In my dreams they trade Burleson for a decent prospect or two, but then I wake up and remember Mo hasn't been that bold in like half a decade.

I could see them standing pat to attempt a push for a third wildcard in hopes of giving Mo a good sendoff. Not that I agree. It's possible nothing big happens until Bloom has full control in November. They have to get out of baseball purgatory.

This would be the most on brand, or in character thing ever. Lethargy, mediocrity, irrelevancy have become the Cardinal Way. This is what the brand has become. We won't make the playoffs AND we won't fix the roster. The perfect Mo legacy. We can remember him that way.

Yes this is like even money odds.

[Talkin' Baseball]

In my dreams they trade Burleson for a decent prospect or two, but then I wake up and remember Mo hasn't been that bold in like half a decade.

I could see them standing pat to attempt a push for a third wildcard in hopes of giving Mo a good sendoff. Not that I agree. It's possible nothing big happens until Bloom has full control in November. They have to get out of baseball purgatory.

This would be the most on brand, or in character thing ever. Lethargy, mediocrity, irrelevancy have become the Cardinal Way. This is what the brand has become. We won't make the playoffs AND we won't fix the roster. The perfect Mo legacy. We can remember him that way.

Yes this is like even money odds.

Remember that '25 team? They battled like (bleep) for that third wild card. They just came up a little short. Did manage to finish ahead of the Pirates though. We were true to ourselves though, practiced our most nuanced arbitrage- went out with our powder dry.

[hugeCardfan]

This team might be better after making the trades. After the deadline there is a real chance that McGreevy and Mathews are in the rotation joining Gray, Libby, and Mikolas/Pallante. The bullpen will likely lose Helsley, but that might be what likely 15-20 innings worth of relief they’re losing?

Btw, the return for a guy like Fedde or Mikolas or Matz is going to be next to nothing, so I’m not about to be mad at them if they keep them or not, because I don’t expect much more than a Jack Flaherty like deal (at best) and so far that trade has netted nothing for the MLB club. The bigger impact would be not having McGreevy and/or Mathews get MLB experience in August/September.

For anything else, I don’t expect that to happen until the offseason when Bloom takes full control.

My thinking too. If they could actually get something for Fedde, Mikolas or Matz go for it. But no reason to just help another team for nothing. Matz has been useful in the pen. Fedde could give us some long relief. Mikolas has six innings of quality starts more than half the time.

Maybe the OP knows what he's talking about and maybe he doesn't. Like you, I see the important thing as giving McGreevy and Mathews starts.

I'm not sure that Helsley will get much, but, if he does, great...go get it. Granillo might step right in.

I see no point in taking the team apart for little addition. I want to see what we can do and, unlike OP, have no white flag dangling from my back pocket. Trading Arenado would be fine with me if there is value in the trade. We have options at 3B. Once again, the main value for trading Arenado is to give someone time to earn the position not to gain a critical prospect. If we stay with Arenado, I'll live with that too.

[Talkin' Baseball]

This team might be better after making the trades. After the deadline there is a real chance that McGreevy and Mathews are in the rotation joining Gray, Libby, and Mikolas/Pallante. The bullpen will likely lose Helsley, but that might be what likely 15-20 innings worth of relief they’re losing?

Btw, the return for a guy like Fedde or Mikolas or Matz is going to be next to nothing, so I’m not about to be mad at them if they keep them or not, because I don’t expect much more than a Jack Flaherty like deal (at best) and so far that trade has netted nothing for the MLB club. The bigger impact would be not having McGreevy and/or Mathews get MLB experience in August/September.

For anything else, I don’t expect that to happen until the offseason when Bloom takes full control.

My thinking too. If they could actually get something for Fedde, Mikolas or Matz go for it. But no reason to just help another team for nothing. Matz has been useful in the pen. Fedde could give us some long relief. Mikolas has six innings of quality starts more than half the time.

Maybe the OP knows what he's talking about and maybe he doesn't. Like you, I see the important thing as giving McGreevy and Mathews starts.

I'm not sure that Helsley will get much, but, if he does, great...go get it. Granillo might step right in.

I see no point in taking the team apart for little addition. I want to see what we can do and, unlike OP, have no white flag dangling from my back pocket. Trading Arenado would be fine with me if there is value in the trade. We have options at 3B. Once again, the main value for trading Arenado is to give someone time to earn the position not to gain a critical prospect. If we stay with Arenado, I'll live with that too.

I think you have to trade packages of players. You have the players you mention, but you also have to include some players with years of control left. The receiving team fills more than one hole while getting at least some years of control. The sending team gets a better return. We shouldn't just dump players- we should also get meaningful returns.

[3dender]

In my dreams they trade Burleson for a decent prospect or two, but then I wake up and remember Mo hasn't been that bold in like half a decade.

I could see them standing pat to attempt a push for a third wildcard in hopes of giving Mo a good sendoff. Not that I agree. It's possible nothing big happens until Bloom has full control in November. They have to get out of baseball purgatory.

This would be the most on brand, or in character thing ever. Lethargy, mediocrity, irrelevancy have become the Cardinal Way. This is what the brand has become. We won't make the playoffs AND we won't fix the roster. The perfect Mo legacy. We can remember him that way.

Yes this is like even money odds.

Remember that '25 team? They battled like (bleep) for that third wild card. They just came up a little short. Did manage to finish ahead of the Pirates though. We were true to ourselves though, practiced our most nuanced arbitrage- went out with our powder dry.

[renostl]

In my dreams they trade Burleson for a decent prospect or two, but then I wake up and remember Mo hasn't been that bold in like half a decade.

I could see them standing pat to attempt a push for a third wildcard in hopes of giving Mo a good sendoff. Not that I agree. It's possible nothing big happens until Bloom has full control in November. They have to get out of baseball purgatory.

This would be the most on brand, or in character thing ever. Lethargy, mediocrity, irrelevancy have become the Cardinal Way. This is what the brand has become. We won't make the playoffs AND we won't fix the roster. The perfect Mo legacy. We can remember him that way.

Yes this is like even money odds.

Remember that '25 team? They battled like (bleep) for that third wild card. They just came up a little short. Did manage to finish ahead of the Pirates though. We were true to ourselves though, practiced our most nuanced arbitrage- went out with our powder dry.

It is theoretically possible to make a trade that has a
positive affect on more than just the stretch run to the 2025 season.

Others teams will have both "buying" and "selling" idea's.