Give credit where credit due

Welcome to STLtoday.com's forum for fans of the St. Louis Cardinals.

Moderators: STLtoday Forum Moderators, Cards Talk Moderators

sikeston bulldog2
Forum User
Posts: 13150
Joined: 11 Aug 2023 16:20 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by sikeston bulldog2 »

Futuregm2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:38 am Since May 1st: .349/.385/.571/.957 OPS 7 2B 7 HR 20 RBI in 136 PA (37 games).

Question is will May/June be his high water mark of the season just like June/July was last year.
Well there has to be a high water bark somewhere. Two months is a lot of the season. If he gets even higher that basically a seasons worth of excellence.
Futuregm2
Forum User
Posts: 7832
Joined: 23 May 2024 13:18 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by Futuregm2 »

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:40 am
Futuregm2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:38 am Since May 1st: .349/.385/.571/.957 OPS 7 2B 7 HR 20 RBI in 136 PA (37 games).

Question is will May/June be his high water mark of the season just like June/July was last year.
Well there has to be a high water bark somewhere. Two months is a lot of the season. If he gets even higher that basically a seasons worth of excellence.
It is and it isn’t. A player can have two great months and still end up with mediocre numbers if they don’t hit that well the other 4 months. Last year he had two good months, three mediocre months, and a bad month and finished very average for the year.

This year he’s had one bad month and two great months. Hopefully he continues to put up the numbers closer to May the rest of the year. I wouldn’t expect him to repeat his June so far though, but May might be doable.
Shady
Forum User
Posts: 6325
Joined: 26 Nov 2022 15:39 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by Shady »

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:40 am
Futuregm2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:38 am Since May 1st: .349/.385/.571/.957 OPS 7 2B 7 HR 20 RBI in 136 PA (37 games).

Question is will May/June be his high water mark of the season just like June/July was last year.
Well there has to be a high water bark somewhere. Two months is a lot of the season. If he gets even higher that basically a seasons worth of excellence.
Dog, it will be interesting to see if Burly is, indeed, taking his game to a higher level.
rockondlouie
Forum User
Posts: 11865
Joined: 23 May 2024 12:41 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by rockondlouie »

Shady wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:48 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:40 am
Futuregm2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:38 am Since May 1st: .349/.385/.571/.957 OPS 7 2B 7 HR 20 RBI in 136 PA (37 games).

Question is will May/June be his high water mark of the season just like June/July was last year.
Well there has to be a high water bark somewhere. Two months is a lot of the season. If he gets even higher that basically a seasons worth of excellence.
Dog, it will be interesting to see if Burly is, indeed, taking his game to a higher level.
He's been on fire and the exciting thing is he's actually hitting LHP (SSS of 34 PA: .313 .353 .438 .790 ) that's been his Kryptonite.

Last 112 PA
5 HR
15 RBI
.379 .414 .583 .997

Right now he's an everyday player, even in RF (0 DRS/0 OAA) where J. Walker's defense (-3 DRS/-2 OAA) has turned south...........again.

Going on 27 years old this offseason, his trade value may never be higher.

Or do they move on from Walker if he doesn't figure things out this year and keep Burleson as their RFer?
3dender
Forum User
Posts: 1484
Joined: 23 May 2024 12:57 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by 3dender »

Futuregm2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:47 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:40 am
Futuregm2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:38 am Since May 1st: .349/.385/.571/.957 OPS 7 2B 7 HR 20 RBI in 136 PA (37 games).

Question is will May/June be his high water mark of the season just like June/July was last year.
Well there has to be a high water bark somewhere. Two months is a lot of the season. If he gets even higher that basically a seasons worth of excellence.
It is and it isn’t. A player can have two great months and still end up with mediocre numbers if they don’t hit that well the other 4 months. Last year he had two good months, three mediocre months, and a bad month and finished very average for the year.

This year he’s had one bad month and two great months. Hopefully he continues to put up the numbers closer to May the rest of the year. I wouldn’t expect him to repeat his June so far though, but May might be doable.
.404 BABIP in June, so yeah.
JDW
Forum User
Posts: 1189
Joined: 23 May 2024 13:42 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by JDW »

rockondlouie wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:57 am
Shady wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:48 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:40 am
Futuregm2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:38 am Since May 1st: .349/.385/.571/.957 OPS 7 2B 7 HR 20 RBI in 136 PA (37 games).

Question is will May/June be his high water mark of the season just like June/July was last year.
Well there has to be a high water bark somewhere. Two months is a lot of the season. If he gets even higher that basically a seasons worth of excellence.
Dog, it will be interesting to see if Burly is, indeed, taking his game to a higher level.
He's been on fire and the exciting thing is he's actually hitting LHP (SSS of 34 PA: .313 .353 .438 .790 ) that's been his Kryptonite.

Last 112 PA
5 HR
15 RBI
.379 .414 .583 .997

Right now he's an everyday player, even in RF (0 DRS/0 OAA) where J. Walker's defense (-3 DRS/-2 OAA) has turned south...........again.

Going on 27 years old this offseason, his trade value may never be higher.

Or do they move on from Walker if he doesn't figure things out this year and keep Burleson as their RFer?
Your last question is a good one. So far Walker has always been a negative WAR MLB player. Just when you think maybe he's trending better, he regresses somewhere it seems. Yes, he's still young, and yes, there's untapped potential plus power in there.
As far as RF for 2026, is Baez going to get an opportunity? Ideally, I'd rather see Burly as a DH, but only if Herrera can learn to play the OF better than Burly.
Looking at 2026, if they did move on from Walker, you could potentially have an OF stable of Herrera, VS2, Baez, Noot and Burly.
Assuming Arenado gets moved, and Inf. of Donovan-Winn-Wetherholt-Contreras, and depth with Saggese, Gorman and Burly.
CorneliusWolfe
Forum User
Posts: 843
Joined: 02 May 2025 19:12 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by CorneliusWolfe »

3dender wrote: 11 Jun 2025 09:54 am
imetsatchelpaige wrote: 11 Jun 2025 09:37 am I don’t get it. He’s hitting 300, he has an OPS of 770. He scorching the ball right now, and you want to trade him. Explain.
Despite a decent bat (emphasis on decent, he'll never walk enough to make it truly great), he doesn't have enough overall value to be an important piece on a winning team (e.g. still only has 0.4 bWAR and 0.5 fWAR)...

He's a positionless bat, this team already has two DH types (Herrera, Gorman), and it's the easiest position to fill.

When you have a replaceable asset at peak value that other teams likely value more than you (i.e. they don't already have two good DH options), it would be silly not to trade it for a greater need.
Not saying we “should” trade him, he’s good insurance at first and LH DH. But you just stated the case for trading him perfectly. Won’t stop the angry hyperventilating though.
Talkin' Baseball
Forum User
Posts: 1402
Joined: 11 Feb 2018 12:39 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by Talkin' Baseball »

We will wait until the car is broken before we try to sell it. Everyone knows you can't sell a car that is running perfectly fine.
rockondlouie
Forum User
Posts: 11865
Joined: 23 May 2024 12:41 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by rockondlouie »

JDW wrote: 20 Jun 2025 11:25 am
rockondlouie wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:57 am
Shady wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:48 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:40 am
Futuregm2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:38 am Since May 1st: .349/.385/.571/.957 OPS 7 2B 7 HR 20 RBI in 136 PA (37 games).

Question is will May/June be his high water mark of the season just like June/July was last year.
Well there has to be a high water bark somewhere. Two months is a lot of the season. If he gets even higher that basically a seasons worth of excellence.
Dog, it will be interesting to see if Burly is, indeed, taking his game to a higher level.
He's been on fire and the exciting thing is he's actually hitting LHP (SSS of 34 PA: .313 .353 .438 .790 ) that's been his Kryptonite.

Last 112 PA
5 HR
15 RBI
.379 .414 .583 .997

Right now he's an everyday player, even in RF (0 DRS/0 OAA) where J. Walker's defense (-3 DRS/-2 OAA) has turned south...........again.

Going on 27 years old this offseason, his trade value may never be higher.

Or do they move on from Walker if he doesn't figure things out this year and keep Burleson as their RFer?
Your last question is a good one. So far Walker has always been a negative WAR MLB player. Just when you think maybe he's trending better, he regresses somewhere it seems. Yes, he's still young, and yes, there's untapped potential plus power in there.
As far as RF for 2026, is Baez going to get an opportunity? Ideally, I'd rather see Burly as a DH, but only if Herrera can learn to play the OF better than Burly.
Looking at 2026, if they did move on from Walker, you could potentially have an OF stable of Herrera, VS2, Baez, Noot and Burly.
Assuming Arenado gets moved, and Inf. of Donovan-Winn-Wetherholt-Contreras, and depth with Saggese, Gorman and Burly.
I've been suggesting the Hererra to the OF since last season, sure hope Bloom makes it happen.

Need to since DH is crowded if they don't between Ivan (obviously the best hitter), Burly and Gorman.

My bet is Bloom culls a lot of the roster via trades and between Burly, Gorman, Walker, Noot and Saggese someone (or some two) won't be on the 2026 roster.
3dender
Forum User
Posts: 1484
Joined: 23 May 2024 12:57 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by 3dender »

CorneliusWolfe wrote: 20 Jun 2025 11:32 am
3dender wrote: 11 Jun 2025 09:54 am
imetsatchelpaige wrote: 11 Jun 2025 09:37 am I don’t get it. He’s hitting 300, he has an OPS of 770. He scorching the ball right now, and you want to trade him. Explain.
Despite a decent bat (emphasis on decent, he'll never walk enough to make it truly great), he doesn't have enough overall value to be an important piece on a winning team (e.g. still only has 0.4 bWAR and 0.5 fWAR)...

He's a positionless bat, this team already has two DH types (Herrera, Gorman), and it's the easiest position to fill.

When you have a replaceable asset at peak value that other teams likely value more than you (i.e. they don't already have two good DH options), it would be silly not to trade it for a greater need.
Not saying we “should” trade him, he’s good insurance at first and LH DH. But you just stated the case for trading him perfectly. Won’t stop the angry hyperventilating though.
It comes down to him being far more valuable to a team with a hole at 1B/DH than he'll ever be to the Cards.
CorneliusWolfe
Forum User
Posts: 843
Joined: 02 May 2025 19:12 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by CorneliusWolfe »

Talkin' Baseball wrote: 20 Jun 2025 11:35 am We will wait until the car is broken before we try to sell it. Everyone knows you can't sell a car that is running perfectly fine.
Mo not the best car salesman the last several years. Several models move way below MSRP.
renostl
Forum User
Posts: 2611
Joined: 23 May 2024 12:40 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by renostl »

Futuregm2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:38 am Since May 1st: .349/.385/.571/.957 OPS 7 2B 7 HR 20 RBI in 136 PA (37 games).

Question is will May/June be his high water mark of the season just like June/July was last year.
.957 is a rather nice high water.

His seasons SLG of .460 if maintained or higher makes him very valuable.
I called him a safety net to other players, the better known production for a
lineup spot. That's mostly played out as he has out played them and well beyond
safety net level.
I'd keep him until someone can at least take his spot. Who knows maybe he is
a .800+ bat.
CorneliusWolfe
Forum User
Posts: 843
Joined: 02 May 2025 19:12 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by CorneliusWolfe »

3dender wrote: 20 Jun 2025 11:47 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: 20 Jun 2025 11:32 am
3dender wrote: 11 Jun 2025 09:54 am
imetsatchelpaige wrote: 11 Jun 2025 09:37 am I don’t get it. He’s hitting 300, he has an OPS of 770. He scorching the ball right now, and you want to trade him. Explain.
Despite a decent bat (emphasis on decent, he'll never walk enough to make it truly great), he doesn't have enough overall value to be an important piece on a winning team (e.g. still only has 0.4 bWAR and 0.5 fWAR)...

He's a positionless bat, this team already has two DH types (Herrera, Gorman), and it's the easiest position to fill.

When you have a replaceable asset at peak value that other teams likely value more than you (i.e. they don't already have two good DH options), it would be silly not to trade it for a greater need.
Not saying we “should” trade him, he’s good insurance at first and LH DH. But you just stated the case for trading him perfectly. Won’t stop the angry hyperventilating though.
It comes down to him being far more valuable to a team with a hole at 1B/DH than he'll ever be to the Cards.
You’re right, but not to those who see a future MVP. Stop thinking like a prudent GM and come worship at the altar of Burly. The chosen one who raised his batting average over 30 points and his RBI total by 2. He is a true miracle worker.
miracle worker.
renostl
Forum User
Posts: 2611
Joined: 23 May 2024 12:40 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by renostl »

Talkin' Baseball wrote: 20 Jun 2025 11:35 am We will wait until the car is broken before we try to sell it. Everyone knows you can't sell a car that is running perfectly fine.
Should they always sell high. Sometimes sell high, or sell
high when the consensus of Cards Talk says to.
CorneliusWolfe
Forum User
Posts: 843
Joined: 02 May 2025 19:12 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by CorneliusWolfe »

renostl wrote: 20 Jun 2025 12:09 pm
Talkin' Baseball wrote: 20 Jun 2025 11:35 am We will wait until the car is broken before we try to sell it. Everyone knows you can't sell a car that is running perfectly fine.
Should they always sell high. Sometimes sell high, or sell
high when the consensus of Cards Talk says to.
Lol. Cards Talk, of course. Where there have been hundreds of claims of legitimately meeting the qualifications of being an MLB GM.
renostl
Forum User
Posts: 2611
Joined: 23 May 2024 12:40 pm

Re: Give credit where credit due

Post by renostl »

JDW wrote: 20 Jun 2025 11:25 am
rockondlouie wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:57 am
Shady wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:48 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:40 am
Futuregm2 wrote: 20 Jun 2025 10:38 am Since May 1st: .349/.385/.571/.957 OPS 7 2B 7 HR 20 RBI in 136 PA (37 games).

Question is will May/June be his high water mark of the season just like June/July was last year.
Well there has to be a high water bark somewhere. Two months is a lot of the season. If he gets even higher that basically a seasons worth of excellence.
Dog, it will be interesting to see if Burly is, indeed, taking his game to a higher level.
He's been on fire and the exciting thing is he's actually hitting LHP (SSS of 34 PA: .313 .353 .438 .790 ) that's been his Kryptonite.

Last 112 PA
5 HR
15 RBI
.379 .414 .583 .997

Right now he's an everyday player, even in RF (0 DRS/0 OAA) where J. Walker's defense (-3 DRS/-2 OAA) has turned south...........again.

Going on 27 years old this offseason, his trade value may never be higher.

Or do they move on from Walker if he doesn't figure things out this year and keep Burleson as their RFer?
Your last question is a good one. So far Walker has always been a negative WAR MLB player. Just when you think maybe he's trending better, he regresses somewhere it seems. Yes, he's still young, and yes, there's untapped potential plus power in there.
As far as RF for 2026, is Baez going to get an opportunity? Ideally, I'd rather see Burly as a DH, but only if Herrera can learn to play the OF better than Burly.
Looking at 2026, if they did move on from Walker, you could potentially have an OF stable of Herrera, VS2, Baez, Noot and Burly.
Assuming Arenado gets moved, and Inf. of Donovan-Winn-Wetherholt-Contreras, and depth with Saggese, Gorman and Burly.
Choosing which players to bet on with emphasis toward the roster, before they have to, these
players are minimum wage with control, will be the next big puzzle.

IMO, It's about the MLB roster now and 2026, more than prospects.

Arenado and Contreras have similar affect on the infield. NA moving opens 2B/3B
while WC opens 1B/DH. Both contracts have just 2 seasons left by this off season. Choose a lane, but clearing
the outfield for anyone seems less important than the infield where 2 vets will leave, JJ is coming, will Donovan
be kept and is he OF or IF. Baez doesn't monopolize OF time in 2026 like JJ may.
Post Reply