MiamiLaw wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 11:24 am
I would say the same thing about Petro. VGK chose to sign him to a long contract. LTIR shouldn't be able to be used as a "get out of contract free once it is a detriment/player gets to have a paid year off" card.
You and I can think what we want, but the NHLPA protects players for these real issues.
That paragraph implies things that you have no understanding of. There’s obviously lots going on.
That's fair. I don't know the full story about Petro particularly. But, I mean, we aren't so naive to say that LTIR is not being strategically abused when needed right?
That’s a default for people. To assume manipulation. I mean you think a guy like that just chose to not attend 4 Nations because he was malingering? Didn’t feel like it? Missed games at the end of the season just because?
I'm not saying he's not hurt though. He may have sat out those games because he was dinged up and felt resting was better so he'd be in the best shape. That's a lot different from being completely unable to play from an LTIR sense.
What I am saying is that players that really should not go on LTIR do go on it because it is mutually beneficial for them and the team and gives them a competitive advantage that is beyond what LTIR was intended to be. The salary cap rules going away completely in the playoffs pretty much makes it stupid NOT to abuse it.
MiamiLaw wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 11:45 am
What I am saying is that players that really should not go on LTIR do go on it because it is mutually beneficial for them and the team and gives them a competitive advantage that is beyond what LTIR was intended to be. The salary cap rules going away completely in the playoffs pretty much makes it stupid NOT to abuse it.
I’ll only speak to this case. This dude must be so taxed mentally and physically.
Long, long runs where you’re a primary target. So much abuse. Several injuries this year.
Problems having children…them bam triplets. Daughter almost dying which really messed him up.
MiamiLaw wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 11:24 am
I would say the same thing about Petro. VGK chose to sign him to a long contract. LTIR shouldn't be able to be used as a "get out of contract free once it is a detriment/player gets to have a paid year off" card.
You and I can think what we want, but the NHLPA protects players for these real issues.
That paragraph implies things that you have no understanding of. There’s obviously lots going on.
That's fair. I don't know the full story about Petro particularly. But, I mean, we aren't so naive to say that LTIR is not being strategically abused when needed right?
That’s a default for people. To assume manipulation. I mean you think a guy like that just chose to not attend 4 Nations because he was malingering? Didn’t feel like it? Missed games at the end of the season just because?
I'm not saying he's not hurt though. He may have sat out those games because he was dinged up and felt resting was better so he'd be in the best shape. That's a lot different from being completely unable to play from an LTIR sense.
What I am saying is that players that really should not go on LTIR do go on it because it is mutually beneficial for them and the team and gives them a competitive advantage that is beyond what LTIR was intended to be. The salary cap rules going away completely in the playoffs pretty much makes it stupid NOT to abuse it.
First thing you have to realize that if you are indeed healthy and your team requests you take a vacation. The team feels you are not needed.
MiamiLaw wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 11:24 am
I would say the same thing about Petro. VGK chose to sign him to a long contract. LTIR shouldn't be able to be used as a "get out of contract free once it is a detriment/player gets to have a paid year off" card.
You and I can think what we want, but the NHLPA protects players for these real issues.
That paragraph implies things that you have no understanding of. There’s obviously lots going on.
That's fair. I don't know the full story about Petro particularly. But, I mean, we aren't so naive to say that LTIR is not being strategically abused when needed right?
That’s a default for people. To assume manipulation. I mean you think a guy like that just chose to not attend 4 Nations because he was malingering? Didn’t feel like it? Missed games at the end of the season just because?
I'm not saying he's not hurt though. He may have sat out those games because he was dinged up and felt resting was better so he'd be in the best shape. That's a lot different from being completely unable to play from an LTIR sense.
What I am saying is that players that really should not go on LTIR do go on it because it is mutually beneficial for them and the team and gives them a competitive advantage that is beyond what LTIR was intended to be. The salary cap rules going away completely in the playoffs pretty much makes it stupid NOT to abuse it.
First thing you have to realize that if you are indeed healthy and your team requests you take a vacation. The team feels you are not needed.
That's not entirely true. The team may wink and you know you have a better shot at a Cup if you take 3 months off. Some guys care and some don't. Mark Stone has shown he doesn't care. Reaves, on the other hand, (whined) when he was listed an inactive and he wasn't even on LTIR.
MiamiLaw wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 11:45 am
What I am saying is that players that really should not go on LTIR do go on it because it is mutually beneficial for them and the team and gives them a competitive advantage that is beyond what LTIR was intended to be. The salary cap rules going away completely in the playoffs pretty much makes it stupid NOT to abuse it.
I’ll only speak to this case. This dude must be so taxed mentally and physically.
Long, long runs where you’re a primary target. So much abuse. Several injuries this year.
Problems having children…them bam triplets. Daughter almost dying which really messed him up.
Can’t even imagine the past 7 years of his life.
I don't know what he's dealing with. No one does.
And while I am sure the stuff I bolded is true, and I can't imagine the stuff with his daughter, it is 100% not a justification to go on LTIR to bail out yourself and the team while you take a break.
MiamiLaw wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 11:45 am
What I am saying is that players that really should not go on LTIR do go on it because it is mutually beneficial for them and the team and gives them a competitive advantage that is beyond what LTIR was intended to be. The salary cap rules going away completely in the playoffs pretty much makes it stupid NOT to abuse it.
I’ll only speak to this case. This dude must be so taxed mentally and physically.
Long, long runs where you’re a primary target. So much abuse. Several injuries this year.
Problems having children…them bam triplets. Daughter almost dying which really messed him up.
Can’t even imagine the past 7 years of his life.
I don't know what he's dealing with. No one does.
And while I am sure the stuff I bolded is true, and I can't imagine the stuff with his daughter, it is 100% not a justification to go on LTIR to bail out yourself and the team while you take a break.
If it’s trauma and severe mental health … yes it is. It’s 2025 my brother. You can circumvent in many ways.
Look at Miller this this year. That’s not LTIR, but same construct.
MiamiLaw wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 11:45 am
What I am saying is that players that really should not go on LTIR do go on it because it is mutually beneficial for them and the team and gives them a competitive advantage that is beyond what LTIR was intended to be. The salary cap rules going away completely in the playoffs pretty much makes it stupid NOT to abuse it.
I’ll only speak to this case. This dude must be so taxed mentally and physically.
Long, long runs where you’re a primary target. So much abuse. Several injuries this year.
Problems having children…them bam triplets. Daughter almost dying which really messed him up.
Can’t even imagine the past 7 years of his life.
Hmmm, finally admitting that he's a ragdoll. Nice!
MiamiLaw wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 11:45 am
What I am saying is that players that really should not go on LTIR do go on it because it is mutually beneficial for them and the team and gives them a competitive advantage that is beyond what LTIR was intended to be. The salary cap rules going away completely in the playoffs pretty much makes it stupid NOT to abuse it.
I’ll only speak to this case. This dude must be so taxed mentally and physically.
Long, long runs where you’re a primary target. So much abuse. Several injuries this year.
Problems having children…them bam triplets. Daughter almost dying which really messed him up.
Can’t even imagine the past 7 years of his life.
I don't know what he's dealing with. No one does.
And while I am sure the stuff I bolded is true, and I can't imagine the stuff with his daughter, it is 100% not a justification to go on LTIR to bail out yourself and the team while you take a break.
Nope. That's a personal leave kind of situation. Put him on the IR so that you can clear up a spot for a call up, but no way he should be placed on LTIR.
The Knights did go through this recently with Lehner so they would know the loopholes quite well, he however had some very serious mental issues that you could easily tell existed and he was also clinically diagnosed with those issues. That hasn't happened with Petro to this point.
MiamiLaw wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 11:45 am
What I am saying is that players that really should not go on LTIR do go on it because it is mutually beneficial for them and the team and gives them a competitive advantage that is beyond what LTIR was intended to be. The salary cap rules going away completely in the playoffs pretty much makes it stupid NOT to abuse it.
I’ll only speak to this case. This dude must be so taxed mentally and physically.
Long, long runs where you’re a primary target. So much abuse. Several injuries this year.
Problems having children…them bam triplets. Daughter almost dying which really messed him up.
Can’t even imagine the past 7 years of his life.
I don't know what he's dealing with. No one does.
And while I am sure the stuff I bolded is true, and I can't imagine the stuff with his daughter, it is 100% not a justification to go on LTIR to bail out yourself and the team while you take a break.
Nope. That's a personal leave kind of situation. Put him on the IR so that you can clear up a spot for a call up, but no way he should be placed on LTIR.
The Knights did go through this recently with Lehner so they would know the loopholes quite well, he however had some very serious mental issues that you could easily tell existed and he was also clinically diagnosed with those issues. That hasn't happened with Petro to this point.
MiamiLaw wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 11:45 am
What I am saying is that players that really should not go on LTIR do go on it because it is mutually beneficial for them and the team and gives them a competitive advantage that is beyond what LTIR was intended to be. The salary cap rules going away completely in the playoffs pretty much makes it stupid NOT to abuse it.
I’ll only speak to this case. This dude must be so taxed mentally and physically.
Long, long runs where you’re a primary target. So much abuse. Several injuries this year.
Problems having children…them bam triplets. Daughter almost dying which really messed him up.
Can’t even imagine the past 7 years of his life.
I don't know what he's dealing with. No one does.
And while I am sure the stuff I bolded is true, and I can't imagine the stuff with his daughter, it is 100% not a justification to go on LTIR to bail out yourself and the team while you take a break.
If it’s trauma and severe mental health … yes it is. It’s 2025 my brother. You can circumvent in many ways.
Look at Miller this this year. That’s not LTIR, but same construct.
Regardless, he’s hurting in many ways I’m sure.
No, it's actually not.
There are avenues to deal with mental health - the Player's Assistance Program, for one. If he were dealing with severe mental health issues that compromised his ability to play, he'd be required to enter and remain in the PAP until they are cleared by their provider (doctor). You don't just get to declare LTIR.
MiamiLaw wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 11:45 am
What I am saying is that players that really should not go on LTIR do go on it because it is mutually beneficial for them and the team and gives them a competitive advantage that is beyond what LTIR was intended to be. The salary cap rules going away completely in the playoffs pretty much makes it stupid NOT to abuse it.
I’ll only speak to this case. This dude must be so taxed mentally and physically.
Long, long runs where you’re a primary target. So much abuse. Several injuries this year.
Problems having children…them bam triplets. Daughter almost dying which really messed him up.
Can’t even imagine the past 7 years of his life.
I don't know what he's dealing with. No one does.
And while I am sure the stuff I bolded is true, and I can't imagine the stuff with his daughter, it is 100% not a justification to go on LTIR to bail out yourself and the team while you take a break.
Nope. That's a personal leave kind of situation. Put him on the IR so that you can clear up a spot for a call up, but no way he should be placed on LTIR.
The Knights did go through this recently with Lehner so they would know the loopholes quite well, he however had some very serious mental issues that you could easily tell existed and he was also clinically diagnosed with those issues. That hasn't happened with Petro to this point.
Mental health is a loophole now.
Laughing and laughing
You're literally arguing contracts with two people who have law degrees. You may be laughing, but it's Dunning-Kreuger, I assure you.
It’s like people don’t understand how powerful the NHLPA is lol
It’s a monster.
The old guys think it’s 1982 … lol
The NHL and NHLPA have a joint Player Assistance Program that addresses mental health, substance abuse, and other challenges players may face. This program offers confidential support, including counseling and treatment, and players can be placed on Long-Term Injury Reserve (LTIR) if a mental health condition renders them unfit to play. The NHLPA also has a separate program called FIRST LINE, which focuses on mental health education and awareness for players and their families
MiamiLaw wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 11:24 am
I would say the same thing about Petro. VGK chose to sign him to a long contract. LTIR shouldn't be able to be used as a "get out of contract free once it is a detriment/player gets to have a paid year off" card.
You and I can think what we want, but the NHLPA protects players for these real issues.
That paragraph implies things that you have no understanding of. There’s obviously lots going on.
That's fair. I don't know the full story about Petro particularly. But, I mean, we aren't so naive to say that LTIR is not being strategically abused when needed right?
That’s a default for people. To assume manipulation. I mean you think a guy like that just chose to not attend 4 Nations because he was malingering? Didn’t feel like it? Missed games at the end of the season just because?
I'm not saying he's not hurt though. He may have sat out those games because he was dinged up and felt resting was better so he'd be in the best shape. That's a lot different from being completely unable to play from an LTIR sense.
What I am saying is that players that really should not go on LTIR do go on it because it is mutually beneficial for them and the team and gives them a competitive advantage that is beyond what LTIR was intended to be. The salary cap rules going away completely in the playoffs pretty much makes it stupid NOT to abuse it.
First thing you have to realize that if you are indeed healthy and your team requests you take a vacation. The team feels you are not needed.
That's not entirely true. The team may wink and you know you have a better shot at a Cup if you take 3 months off. Some guys care and some don't. Mark Stone has shown he doesn't care. Reaves, on the other hand, (whined) when he was listed an inactive and he wasn't even on LTIR.
Mark stone has had multiple back surgeries and multiple doctors have stated they were uncertain if he could play again
I like you brother, but you’re being really ignorant here.
There are avenues to deal with mental health - the Player's Assistance Program, for one. If he were dealing with severe mental health issues that compromised his ability to play, he'd be required to enter and remain in the PAP until they are cleared by their provider (doctor). You don't just get to declare LTIR.
Very good know some actual FACTS.
Whatever the case you can count on Petro and the Knights fully capable of consorting to have them both come out smelling like a rose.
Vegas has corrupted the rules every chance they get.
There are avenues to deal with mental health - the Player's Assistance Program, for one. If he were dealing with severe mental health issues that compromised his ability to play, he'd be required to enter and remain in the PAP until they are cleared by their provider (doctor). You don't just get to declare LTIR.
Very good know some actual FACTS.
Whatever the case you can count on Petro and the Knights fully capable of consorting to have them both come out smelling like a rose.
Vegas has corrupted the rules every chance they get.
Yea the mental health thing is a touchy subject because they have to make it known but they don't have to disclose what it's for. It's weird that substance abuse falls under the same umbrella as depression issues. If this were the issue the player or the organization has to check them in and that information has to be disclosed to the public and league. Again, touchy subject but because mental health isn't a visible ailment, you have to state it as the issue so that the leagues doctors and protocols can take over and verify. It's also why players can't be forced onto the LTIR for an injury if they are capable of playing and willing to play. They can get someone outside the team doctors to corroborate their ability to play. That information is a little more sensitive in a different direction because of the control of the players future contracts and ability to play.
It's all touchy information, and it's why the Kane thing is being looked at now. That stuff happens behind closed doors and then when people go digging they realize that there is Tom Foolery being had and intentionally not doing the best case of treatment to circumvent the rules. Petro might physically be hurt, he might mentally be damaged, but there are still actions that the team and league have to do to not create a snowball effect. The rich teams would abuse the LTIR even more if they were allowed to just deem a player injured and pay them out.
Imagine Sydney Crosby right now. Teams would be lining up to give him 12x4 knowing he can't play out that contract and they would eventually just LTIR him and pay him. That's what the league has to prevent.
MiamiLaw wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 11:24 am
I would say the same thing about Petro. VGK chose to sign him to a long contract. LTIR shouldn't be able to be used as a "get out of contract free once it is a detriment/player gets to have a paid year off" card.
You and I can think what we want, but the NHLPA protects players for these real issues.
That paragraph implies things that you have no understanding of. There’s obviously lots going on.
That's fair. I don't know the full story about Petro particularly. But, I mean, we aren't so naive to say that LTIR is not being strategically abused when needed right?
That’s a default for people. To assume manipulation. I mean you think a guy like that just chose to not attend 4 Nations because he was malingering? Didn’t feel like it? Missed games at the end of the season just because?
I'm not saying he's not hurt though. He may have sat out those games because he was dinged up and felt resting was better so he'd be in the best shape. That's a lot different from being completely unable to play from an LTIR sense.
What I am saying is that players that really should not go on LTIR do go on it because it is mutually beneficial for them and the team and gives them a competitive advantage that is beyond what LTIR was intended to be. The salary cap rules going away completely in the playoffs pretty much makes it stupid NOT to abuse it.
First thing you have to realize that if you are indeed healthy and your team requests you take a vacation. The team feels you are not needed.
That's not entirely true. The team may wink and you know you have a better shot at a Cup if you take 3 months off. Some guys care and some don't. Mark Stone has shown he doesn't care. Reaves, on the other hand, (whined) when he was listed an inactive and he wasn't even on LTIR.
Mark stone has had multiple back surgeries and multiple doctors have stated they were uncertain if he could play again
I like you brother, but you’re being really ignorant here.
Yea, his back/spleen/insert whatever other ailment he had for two straight years magically healed right when the playoffs started and he played at a Conn level. You don't go from "may never play again" to that in the span of a few months. Again, it isn't that he isn't injured/hurting, it is that he is being held on LTIR strategically to allow deadline pickups thereby utilizing LTIR as a competitive advantage that it was not designed to create.
If he can play in Game 1 of the playoffs at a Conn level, he could've played in Game 82. That's the issue and, yes, he'd complicit because he went along with it, which is why i brought up Reaves.
You seem to think that when we say they are abusing LTIR that the guys aren't injured. Not the case.
