Nolan Arenado Reality

[ClassicO]

Once again just bad logic and analysis! So which were they? Old washed up expensive players or guys of good value? You can't really have it both ways! The other clubs that .might have been interested thought they were of good value and could help them win big. Don't you want to win big too?

Without a much more solid foundation of cost controlled young players, the Cardinals were in no position to "win big" with, or without, Arenado and Goldschmidt. 2024 proved to be another exercise in mediocrity even with them.

The Cardinals could have interested teams who WERE in a position to win big in Arenado and Goldschmidt back in 2023, gotten quality prospects in return, and be further along in rebuilding their foundation.

They may have been an opportunity to trade in late 2023, but that seems to be some 20-20 hindsight. Goldy had a bad 2nd half but was .844 pre-All Star in 2023. NA still had a lot of time and $ on his contract, plus the NTC, so he was still hard to trade for much. They had .810 (PG) and .805 (NA) OPS in 2023.
Not many people wanted to blow up this team re: players - as many believed Gorman's .805 OPS and Walker's good rookie seasons in 2023 bode well for the future. Plus Willy and Donny had good years - and Noot had a good year (his value was much higher than now). Pitching was the big issue.

Not a big deal - I just think the past is malleable to our current state.

[zuck698]

Future Red Jacket! My bet he goes no where, as Bill likes to have the Red Jackets on display.

[ecleme22]

Once again just bad logic and analysis! So which were they? Old washed up expensive players or guys of good value? You can't really have it both ways! The other clubs that .might have been interested thought they were of good value and could help them win big. Don't you want to win big too?

Without a much more solid foundation of cost controlled young players, the Cardinals were in no position to "win big" with, or without, Arenado and Goldschmidt. 2024 proved to be another exercise in mediocrity even with them.

The Cardinals could have interested teams who WERE in a position to win big in Arenado and Goldschmidt back in 2023, gotten quality prospects in return, and be further along in rebuilding their foundation.

A big reason 2024 was a dud was because both NA and PG fell off a cliff.

Which, given their ages, was always a strong possibility and why they should have been traded in 2023.

"It is better to trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late." - Branch Rickey

Easy to say that now.

Also, I know Goldie is no longer here. Did he retire?

Said it a lot back in July 2023.

What's Goldie up to now?

Fading a lot (wRC+ 50) in June.

But the Cardinals didn't have him signed for this year anyway, so it's moot when discussing whether they should have traded him in 2023.

You're being disingenuous.

Goldie currently has a 130 OPS+ now and a 1.8 WAR. A .309 BA.


Who's to say he wouldn't have done that in 2024?

[Ike Hammett]

Once again just bad logic and analysis! So which were they? Old washed up expensive players or guys of good value? You can't really have it both ways! The other clubs that .might have been interested thought they were of good value and could help them win big. Don't you want to win big too?

Without a much more solid foundation of cost controlled young players, the Cardinals were in no position to "win big" with, or without, Arenado and Goldschmidt. 2024 proved to be another exercise in mediocrity even with them.

The Cardinals could have interested teams who WERE in a position to win big in Arenado and Goldschmidt back in 2023, gotten quality prospects in return, and be further along in rebuilding their foundation.

So you never really answered the question. Were they valued pieces that could help a team win or "ball and chain" big contracts? Average is 81 wins 81 losses. This is baseball, an underperforming "average"team is a few timely hits, errors or mental mistakes from being an 88 win wildcard team. Like the Phillies in 2022 and past Cards clubs, that can mean big winning. On top of that this is big business, watch what happens to attendence and interest when you play the Burlesons, Vilade, Siani types. Your max will be teams hunting for wildcards not going deep, exactly what everyone has been hating on.

"A redbird in the hand is better than 2 (prospects)in the Busch."

[mattmitchl44]

Once again just bad logic and analysis! So which were they? Old washed up expensive players or guys of good value? You can't really have it both ways! The other clubs that .might have been interested thought they were of good value and could help them win big. Don't you want to win big too?

Without a much more solid foundation of cost controlled young players, the Cardinals were in no position to "win big" with, or without, Arenado and Goldschmidt. 2024 proved to be another exercise in mediocrity even with them.

The Cardinals could have interested teams who WERE in a position to win big in Arenado and Goldschmidt back in 2023, gotten quality prospects in return, and be further along in rebuilding their foundation.

So you never really answered the question. Were they valued pieces that could help a team win or "ball and chain" big contracts? Average is 81 wins 81 losses. This is baseball, an underperforming "average"team is a few timely hits, errors or mental mistakes from being an 88 win wildcard team. Like the Phillies in 2022 and past Cards clubs, that can mean big winning. On top of that this is big business, watch what happens to attendence and interest when you play the Burlesons, Vilade, Siani types. Your max will be teams hunting for wildcards not going deep, exactly what everyone has been hating on.

"A redbird in the hand is better than 2 (prospects)in the Busch."

They were valuable pieces to a team that was ready to "win now" in 2023. That, however, was not the Cardinals.

You trade them for prospects in 2023, rebuild your foundation of young cost controlled players, and then go out and find other Arenados and Goldschmidts that fill whatever holes you have at that time.

[mattmitchl44]

Once again just bad logic and analysis! So which were they? Old washed up expensive players or guys of good value? You can't really have it both ways! The other clubs that .might have been interested thought they were of good value and could help them win big. Don't you want to win big too?

Without a much more solid foundation of cost controlled young players, the Cardinals were in no position to "win big" with, or without, Arenado and Goldschmidt. 2024 proved to be another exercise in mediocrity even with them.

The Cardinals could have interested teams who WERE in a position to win big in Arenado and Goldschmidt back in 2023, gotten quality prospects in return, and be further along in rebuilding their foundation.

A big reason 2024 was a dud was because both NA and PG fell off a cliff.

Which, given their ages, was always a strong possibility and why they should have been traded in 2023.

"It is better to trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late." - Branch Rickey

Easy to say that now.

Also, I know Goldie is no longer here. Did he retire?

Said it a lot back in July 2023.

What's Goldie up to now?

Fading a lot (wRC+ 50) in June.

But the Cardinals didn't have him signed for this year anyway, so it's moot when discussing whether they should have traded him in 2023.

You're being disingenuous.

Goldie currently has a 130 OPS+ now and a 1.8 WAR. A .309 BA.


Who's to say he wouldn't have done that in 2024?

If someone wanted to give the Cardinals value in 2023 based on that expectation for 2024, all the better.

The Cardinals finished six games out of the WC in 2024. Even a better Goldschmidt wasn't going to get them there. And limping in as the last WC shouldn't be the Cardinals goal anyway.

[ScotchMIrish]

If we are honest with ourselves:

Offensively he is assuredly in decline and long past his salad days.

It started in 23. While his homer total was still respectable his Combined Homer/Double totals were well off his career pace and average. And have continued to trend further downward.

33 years old with a lot of wear on him. Can still play a solid to really good 3B but the bat is nearing inadequacy for that position. Sure maybe you can get by, if had power sources elsewhere, yet the money sink is crippling in any event.

If I can see that, I am sure every other GM can see that.

Only way we move him is if we take on the bulk of his remaining salary commitments. And I don't see a Creme De La Creme prospect(s) coming back under any scenario.

We are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Not sure what I would do myself if the Cards. Play out the contract rather than eat the bulk while he enjoys himself elsewhere. Yeah, IDK. I make him wear a FredBird costume if I have to.

Everybody loved him when he was a key member of multiple playoff teams. Everybody knew this would happen. Like most big money long term deals it extends beyond his prime years.

Hardly a surprise.

[ecleme22]

Once again just bad logic and analysis! So which were they? Old washed up expensive players or guys of good value? You can't really have it both ways! The other clubs that .might have been interested thought they were of good value and could help them win big. Don't you want to win big too?

Without a much more solid foundation of cost controlled young players, the Cardinals were in no position to "win big" with, or without, Arenado and Goldschmidt. 2024 proved to be another exercise in mediocrity even with them.

The Cardinals could have interested teams who WERE in a position to win big in Arenado and Goldschmidt back in 2023, gotten quality prospects in return, and be further along in rebuilding their foundation.

A big reason 2024 was a dud was because both NA and PG fell off a cliff.

Which, given their ages, was always a strong possibility and why they should have been traded in 2023.

"It is better to trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late." - Branch Rickey

Easy to say that now.

Also, I know Goldie is no longer here. Did he retire?

Said it a lot back in July 2023.

What's Goldie up to now?

Fading a lot (wRC+ 50) in June.

But the Cardinals didn't have him signed for this year anyway, so it's moot when discussing whether they should have traded him in 2023.

You're being disingenuous.

Goldie currently has a 130 OPS+ now and a 1.8 WAR. A .309 BA.


Who's to say he wouldn't have done that in 2024?

If someone wanted to give the Cardinals value in 2023 based on that expectation for 2024, all the better.

The Cardinals finished six games out of the WC in 2024. Even a better Goldschmidt wasn't going to get them there. And limping in as the last WC shouldn't be the Cardinals goal anyway.

Goldy had a .664 OPS the first half of 2024.

I think if he had an .830 OPS, it would've helped. LOL.

[Ike Hammett]

Once again just bad logic and analysis! So which were they? Old washed up expensive players or guys of good value? You can't really have it both ways! The other clubs that .might have been interested thought they were of good value and could help them win big. Don't you want to win big too?

Without a much more solid foundation of cost controlled young players, the Cardinals were in no position to "win big" with, or without, Arenado and Goldschmidt. 2024 proved to be another exercise in mediocrity even with them.

The Cardinals could have interested teams who WERE in a position to win big in Arenado and Goldschmidt back in 2023, gotten quality prospects in return, and be further along in rebuilding their foundation.

So you never really answered the question. Were they valued pieces that could help a team win or "ball and chain" big contracts? Average is 81 wins 81 losses. This is baseball, an underperforming "average"team is a few timely hits, errors or mental mistakes from being an 88 win wildcard team. Like the Phillies in 2022 and past Cards clubs, that can mean big winning. On top of that this is big business, watch what happens to attendence and interest when you play the Burlesons, Vilade, Siani types. Your max will be teams hunting for wildcards not going deep, exactly what everyone has been hating on.

"A redbird in the hand is better than 2 (prospects)in the Busch."

They were valuable pieces to a team that was ready to "win now" in 2023. That, however, was not the Cardinals.

You trade them for prospects in 2023, rebuild your foundation of young cost controlled players, and then go out and find other Arenados and Goldschmidts that fill whatever holes you have at that time.

The Cardinals were ready to win in 2023! And 2024. On paper those were better clubs (minus the sell off). It was basically the same team without old Yadi and old Pujols but with young Willson Contreras. That team was picked by pundits to win the division, lots here were thinking 95 wins. They had the most players (8 I think) playing in the WBC, nobody knows how they ended up with 71 wins. Maybe the WBC messed things up, maybe Contreas was tipping pitches but that was a contending club. Had some holes to fill for 2024 Pitching which they did with Gray. Gibson and Lynn. A competitive team with 83 wins. If Goldy and Nado played close to their career averages could have won 90. The Cards were right, you are wrong and spoiled "fans" take too much for granted.

Goldy and Arenado type deals don't just always happen, that takes serious work, serious financial commitment and selling to other teams and the players to want to do it. And that's even if the owner wants to spend, which with all these ungrateful brats might not be a sure thing anymore. John King, Sagasse, Klofenstien etc are guys we can always go find, Goldy and Nado, not so much at those types of deals. Sad what so many people here believe.

[mattmitchl44]

Once again just bad logic and analysis! So which were they? Old washed up expensive players or guys of good value? You can't really have it both ways! The other clubs that .might have been interested thought they were of good value and could help them win big. Don't you want to win big too?

Without a much more solid foundation of cost controlled young players, the Cardinals were in no position to "win big" with, or without, Arenado and Goldschmidt. 2024 proved to be another exercise in mediocrity even with them.

The Cardinals could have interested teams who WERE in a position to win big in Arenado and Goldschmidt back in 2023, gotten quality prospects in return, and be further along in rebuilding their foundation.

So you never really answered the question. Were they valued pieces that could help a team win or "ball and chain" big contracts? Average is 81 wins 81 losses. This is baseball, an underperforming "average"team is a few timely hits, errors or mental mistakes from being an 88 win wildcard team. Like the Phillies in 2022 and past Cards clubs, that can mean big winning. On top of that this is big business, watch what happens to attendence and interest when you play the Burlesons, Vilade, Siani types. Your max will be teams hunting for wildcards not going deep, exactly what everyone has been hating on.

"A redbird in the hand is better than 2 (prospects)in the Busch."

They were valuable pieces to a team that was ready to "win now" in 2023. That, however, was not the Cardinals.

You trade them for prospects in 2023, rebuild your foundation of young cost controlled players, and then go out and find other Arenados and Goldschmidts that fill whatever holes you have at that time.

The Cardinals were ready to win in 2023! And 2024. On paper those were better clubs (minus the sell off). It was basically the same team without old Yadi and old Pujols but with young Willson Contreras. That team was picked by pundits to win the division, lots here were thinking 95 wins. They had the most players (8 I think) playing in the WBC, nobody knows how they ended up with 71 wins. Maybe the WBC messed things up, maybe Contreas was tipping pitches but that was a contending club. Had some holes to fill for 2024 Pitching which they did with Gray. Gibson and Lynn. A competitive team with 83 wins. If Goldy and Nado played close to their career averages could have won 90. The Cards were right, you are wrong and spoiled "fans" take too much for granted.

Goldy and Arenado type deals don't just always happen, that takes serious work, serious financial commitment and selling to other teams and the players to want to do it. And that's even if the owner wants to spend, which with all these ungrateful brats might not be a sure thing anymore. John King, Sagasse, Klofenstien etc are guys we can always go find, Goldy and Nado, not so much at those types of deals. Sad what so many people here believe.

Clearly they were not.

That's the mistake that fans make that a GM running the team should not - not being realistic about the team's actual talent level and what needs to be done to improve it.

The Cardinals are trying to learn that lesson and adjust in 2025, but they should have figured it out a year sooner.

[mattmitchl44]

Once again just bad logic and analysis! So which were they? Old washed up expensive players or guys of good value? You can't really have it both ways! The other clubs that .might have been interested thought they were of good value and could help them win big. Don't you want to win big too?

Without a much more solid foundation of cost controlled young players, the Cardinals were in no position to "win big" with, or without, Arenado and Goldschmidt. 2024 proved to be another exercise in mediocrity even with them.

The Cardinals could have interested teams who WERE in a position to win big in Arenado and Goldschmidt back in 2023, gotten quality prospects in return, and be further along in rebuilding their foundation.

A big reason 2024 was a dud was because both NA and PG fell off a cliff.

Which, given their ages, was always a strong possibility and why they should have been traded in 2023.

"It is better to trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late." - Branch Rickey

Easy to say that now.

Also, I know Goldie is no longer here. Did he retire?

Said it a lot back in July 2023.

What's Goldie up to now?

Fading a lot (wRC+ 50) in June.

But the Cardinals didn't have him signed for this year anyway, so it's moot when discussing whether they should have traded him in 2023.

You're being disingenuous.

Goldie currently has a 130 OPS+ now and a 1.8 WAR. A .309 BA.


Who's to say he wouldn't have done that in 2024?

If someone wanted to give the Cardinals value in 2023 based on that expectation for 2024, all the better.

The Cardinals finished six games out of the WC in 2024. Even a better Goldschmidt wasn't going to get them there. And limping in as the last WC shouldn't be the Cardinals goal anyway.

Goldy had a .664 OPS the first half of 2024.

I think if he had an .830 OPS, it would've helped. LOL.

He was never going to worth another six wins. If he's the 2023 (3.4 fWAR) or 2025 (on pace to be about 3.5 fWAR) version, maybe they win 2-3 more games - but not 6.

[JDW]

It's one thing to have a .830 OPS with half your games in Yankee stadium and Judge hitting behind you than doing anything similar with STL's home ballpark and lineup.
Arenado could still potentially have a rejuvenation with a more hitter friendly home ballpark.
Heck, Burleson might be a legit DH option if his home ballpark was Fenway as an example.

[renostl]

The reality of Nolan Arenado as a Cardinal is this fanbase is nuts. Arenado has been a good Cardinal. According to baseball reference he has a WAR of 17.8 with the club in 4+ seasons. If you take the standard of $7 to $10 million for 1 WAR as a free agent, along with including the Rockies picking up some of that tab and his pay going down the next 2 seasons he is okay being an average to slightly above league average hitter 100- 110 ops+ with an above average glove. Hopefully he can squeeze out another 6-7 WAR in his last 2+ years.

He is a good deal when you take into account he really made the team the true contender everyone wanted a few years back when he was putting up MVP caliber numbers. Sad how so many loons took that for granted and still whine about those teams "not trying" and the club being cheap. Nado is great, you all suck and spoiled.

He had one MVP caliber season. In 5 seasons with the Cardinals he has won 2 Gold gloves and had MVP votes in 1 season. For what we gave up in the trade, he was worth it. But we probably could have spent the money differently and been better off for it honestly. Now we still have 2 more years left on the contract and he’s already been in decline for 2 years. So he’ll spend more than half his time in St. Louis being at best an average bat with a good glove.

I would seriously consider platooning Arenado and Gorman the rest of this season. Arenado has an .800 OPS vs LHP and Gorman has a .760 OPS vs RHP.

This is the beauty of sport lets players come and go, a new slate starts.

Teams have to spend to get and keep MVP/HOF players, The Cardinals should get a little credit for the attempt rather than worrying about trading too late. I know that you FGM are not saying that here, it is just occurring in this thread. The attempt is to add to your comments not to debate.

It's a business that our hometown team isn't going to go over the CBT budget. As long as they continue to not hand out long terms they'll be fine. Production needs to occur. Even over paid product works. Matz this season is superior to Matz on the IL for example.

The Cards with the contracts of NA, SG, WC, MM, and SM are not hindered if they wanted to spend. They are a full $40 million under last seasons budget with another $30
soon coming off. $30 million gets a player like Devers if wanted. Players like Crochet, Edman, Fedde, Tucker, are always changing hands.

What would a Tucker and Crochet at under $21 million for 2025 do for the roster
for example? Cards are in good shape payroll wise. The need is to ID the players to bet
on for production. Concerns over selling a player at peak seem over blown IMO. Get rid of peak player's maybe if there's ready replacements. The goal is still to win more games than lose.

A partial platoon may work with NG and NA. It may improve some of NA's overall numbers and perhaps motivate NA to be slightly less particular of where he goes to if he sees the writing on the wall of his Cardinal future.

[icon]

Once again just bad logic and analysis! So which were they? Old washed up expensive players or guys of good value? You can't really have it both ways! The other clubs that .might have been interested thought they were of good value and could help them win big. Don't you want to win big too?

Without a much more solid foundation of cost controlled young players, the Cardinals were in no position to "win big" with, or without, Arenado and Goldschmidt. 2024 proved to be another exercise in mediocrity even with them.

The Cardinals could have interested teams who WERE in a position to win big in Arenado and Goldschmidt back in 2023, gotten quality prospects in return, and be further along in rebuilding their foundation.

A big reason 2024 was a dud was because both NA and PG fell off a cliff.

Which, given their ages, was always a strong possibility and why they should have been traded in 2023.

"It is better to trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late." - Branch Rickey

Easy to say that now.

Also, I know Goldie is no longer here. Did he retire?

Said it a lot back in July 2023.

What's Goldie up to now?

Fading a lot (wRC+ 50) in June.

But the Cardinals didn't have him signed for this year anyway, so it's moot when discussing whether they should have traded him in 2023.

You're being disingenuous.

Goldie currently has a 130 OPS+ now and a 1.8 WAR. A .309 BA.


Who's to say he wouldn't have done that in 2024?

Goldschmidt has been fairly lucky with a high BABIP and near career lows in hard hit percentage and barrels percentage. And exit velocity. And he only has 7 home runs. Not a slugger anymore.

[Ike Hammett]

Once again just bad logic and analysis! So which were they? Old washed up expensive players or guys of good value? You can't really have it both ways! The other clubs that .might have been interested thought they were of good value and could help them win big. Don't you want to win big too?

Without a much more solid foundation of cost controlled young players, the Cardinals were in no position to "win big" with, or without, Arenado and Goldschmidt. 2024 proved to be another exercise in mediocrity even with them.

The Cardinals could have interested teams who WERE in a position to win big in Arenado and Goldschmidt back in 2023, gotten quality prospects in return, and be further along in rebuilding their foundation.

So you never really answered the question. Were they valued pieces that could help a team win or "ball and chain" big contracts? Average is 81 wins 81 losses. This is baseball, an underperforming "average"team is a few timely hits, errors or mental mistakes from being an 88 win wildcard team. Like the Phillies in 2022 and past Cards clubs, that can mean big winning. On top of that this is big business, watch what happens to attendence and interest when you play the Burlesons, Vilade, Siani types. Your max will be teams hunting for wildcards not going deep, exactly what everyone has been hating on.

"A redbird in the hand is better than 2 (prospects)in the Busch."

They were valuable pieces to a team that was ready to "win now" in 2023. That, however, was not the Cardinals.

You trade them for prospects in 2023, rebuild your foundation of young cost controlled players, and then go out and find other Arenados and Goldschmidts that fill whatever holes you have at that time.

The Cardinals were ready to win in 2023! And 2024. On paper those were better clubs (minus the sell off). It was basically the same team without old Yadi and old Pujols but with young Willson Contreras. That team was picked by pundits to win the division, lots here were thinking 95 wins. They had the most players (8 I think) playing in the WBC, nobody knows how they ended up with 71 wins. Maybe the WBC messed things up, maybe Contreas was tipping pitches but that was a contending club. Had some holes to fill for 2024 Pitching which they did with Gray. Gibson and Lynn. A competitive team with 83 wins. If Goldy and Nado played close to their career averages could have won 90. The Cards were right, you are wrong and spoiled "fans" take too much for granted.

Goldy and Arenado type deals don't just always happen, that takes serious work, serious financial commitment and selling to other teams and the players to want to do it. And that's even if the owner wants to spend, which with all these ungrateful brats might not be a sure thing anymore. John King, Sagasse, Klofenstien etc are guys we can always go find, Goldy and Nado, not so much at those types of deals. Sad what so many people here believe.

Clearly they were not.

That's the mistake that fans make that a GM running the team should not - not being realistic about the team's actual talent level and what needs to be done to improve it.

The Cardinals are trying to learn that lesson and adjust in 2025, but they should have figured it out a year sooner.

This is more of the crazy talk, out of touch with reality, not knowing type stuff. 2023 Cards were like the Braves or Orioles this year, they're good, but sometimes it doesn't work out. That's how it goes sometimes. You seem to always get a few good surprises and a few disappointments. That's baseball. To blow up the model and change everything and overreact by calling for boycotting etc is ridiculous and unfair to management that did a good job on paper. The game isn't always played on paper or stats. It's played by people.

[ecleme22]

Once again just bad logic and analysis! So which were they? Old washed up expensive players or guys of good value? You can't really have it both ways! The other clubs that .might have been interested thought they were of good value and could help them win big. Don't you want to win big too?

Without a much more solid foundation of cost controlled young players, the Cardinals were in no position to "win big" with, or without, Arenado and Goldschmidt. 2024 proved to be another exercise in mediocrity even with them.

The Cardinals could have interested teams who WERE in a position to win big in Arenado and Goldschmidt back in 2023, gotten quality prospects in return, and be further along in rebuilding their foundation.

A big reason 2024 was a dud was because both NA and PG fell off a cliff.

Which, given their ages, was always a strong possibility and why they should have been traded in 2023.

"It is better to trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late." - Branch Rickey

Easy to say that now.

Also, I know Goldie is no longer here. Did he retire?

Said it a lot back in July 2023.

What's Goldie up to now?

Fading a lot (wRC+ 50) in June.

But the Cardinals didn't have him signed for this year anyway, so it's moot when discussing whether they should have traded him in 2023.

You're being disingenuous.

Goldie currently has a 130 OPS+ now and a 1.8 WAR. A .309 BA.


Who's to say he wouldn't have done that in 2024?

If someone wanted to give the Cardinals value in 2023 based on that expectation for 2024, all the better.

The Cardinals finished six games out of the WC in 2024. Even a better Goldschmidt wasn't going to get them there. And limping in as the last WC shouldn't be the Cardinals goal anyway.

Goldy had a .664 OPS the first half of 2024.

I think if he had an .830 OPS, it would've helped. LOL.

He was never going to worth another six wins. If he's the 2023 (3.4 fWAR) or 2025 (on pace to be about 3.5 fWAR) version, maybe they win 2-3 more games - but not 6.

That’s a stupid way of looking at it.

Goldy with an .830 ops over the first 94 games vs a .664 would’ve helped in numerous ways.

Only a moron would count WAR vs the standings. (Unless the team was horrible.)