Extreme trade deadline scenario.

[DewittDaman11]

Just late night thoughts on tradable players for the 2025 deadline, and, what we might get for them. There are 7 tradable players that I feel the Cardinals could afford to part with that other teams would want enough to get us a decent return. The first, although I wouldn't have said it a couple months ago, is Nootbaar. We have Donovan to cover LF until Baez is up in a couple years.

Gorman and Burleson are also expendable, IMO, neither with a real full time defensive position, so, only bench replacements necessary. Then for pitching, I see the obvious Mikolas, Fedde and Matz, although Matz might be harder to part with if the Cardinals are contenders come the deadline. I left out Arenado, Contreras and Gray as trade possibilities because of prior trade clause refusals. I would trade Maton, if the return was good enough. But, we would need a closer if we trade Helsley, and, although Granillo may be a
future closer, he's too fresh to the show.

That leaves a possible line up of LF Donovan, SS Winn, DH Herrera, 1B Contreras, RF Walker, 3B Arenado, 2B Saggese, C Pages, and CF Scott. One bench possibility is C Pozo, IF/OF Barrero, OF Koperniak, and IF Prieto. Not the worst line up, I actually kind of l Iike it, although it's a bit right handed heavy, for sure.

The staff would be Gray, Pallante, Liberatore, McGreevy and Mathews(unless someone else is pitching better than Mathews). The bullpen might be Maton, Romero, Leahy, Granillo, King, O'Brien, Svanson and Weiss. Nothing to write home about, but, serviceable with Maton at the helm.

We probably wouldn't move all seven of my suggested players, but, it does show we could afford to move some MLB talent for some prospects. Although, quality of return they might fetch is debatable, we should be able to improve our farm, and field a competitive team for the stretch run. Maybe even trade for some international draft money, or, competitive balance picks if traded before the draft, as some have suggested.

I'm not really punting the season, as much as moving obsolete and redundant parts. And even though I think this team still has a chance at the playoffs in 2025, I am honestly extremely excited for next year under Bloom(and hopefully a new manager like Molina or Pujols, or both). By the end of the season we should see Wetherholt and Crooks, with Bernal, Davis, Baez and Church close behind. I think we should seek these trades no matter the teams record, as the Cardinals need to make room for Walker fulltime, Donovan needs to be in LF for the best defensive/offensive production out of the position, and Saggese is the next best option at 2B, at least until Wetherholt arrives. And the bench is definitely a bench, no controversy about shared playing time.

The starting staff will be young, but, could be good. The bullpen is weaker, but, maybe we get a ready BP arm in return, along with, hopefully, a few decent prospects. This would be the best gift Mo could give to Bloom, and, would set Bloom up with a fairly clean slate, other than the no trade contracts. If you made it this far, you like rambling baseball musings as much as me. Go Cardinals!

[mattmitchl44]

I'm only looking to move guys who I don't see as part of the Cardinals longer term 3-year or 5-year plan - Arenado, Helsley, Mikolas, Gray, Fedde, Contreras, Matz, Maton, etc.

If you are a team like the Cardinals who should still be focused on rebuilding and you have young guys (Gorman, Burleson, Nootbaar, etc.) who you think are expendable, you should not expect anyone else to value them either. Young, cost controlled players are exactly what the Cardinals need, so if you are trading away young, cost controlled players it must be because they have very little value.

[2ninr]

I'm only looking to move guys who I don't see as part of the Cardinals longer term 3-year or 5-year plan - Arenado, Helsley, Mikolas, Gray, Fedde, Contreras, Matz, Maton, etc.

If you are a team like the Cardinals who should still be focused on rebuilding and you have young guys (Gorman, Burleson, Nootbaar, etc.) who you think are expendable, you should not expect anyone else to value them either. Young, cost controlled players are exactly what the Cardinals need, so if you are trading away young, cost controlled players it must be because they have very little value.

All of the first group will be gone no matter what in 2026 except Arenado, Gray, and Contreras. I don't read trade values anymore but I'm guessing Arenado is a negative. So you have to pay and he has to agree for someone to take him. Gray and Contreras just have to agree to whatever deal you can make. You can't expect much. Hopefully they're all gone.
Burleson can play first and Gorman third to try and build value for these players. Noot is simply slumping. If not we dodged a bullet by not extending him.

[mattmitchl44]

I'm only looking to move guys who I don't see as part of the Cardinals longer term 3-year or 5-year plan - Arenado, Helsley, Mikolas, Gray, Fedde, Contreras, Matz, Maton, etc.

If you are a team like the Cardinals who should still be focused on rebuilding and you have young guys (Gorman, Burleson, Nootbaar, etc.) who you think are expendable, you should not expect anyone else to value them either. Young, cost controlled players are exactly what the Cardinals need, so if you are trading away young, cost controlled players it must be because they have very little value.

All of the first group will be gone no matter what in 2026 except Arenado, Gray, and Contreras. I don't read trade values anymore but I'm guessing Arenado is a negative. So you have to pay and he has to agree for someone to take him. Gray and Contreras just have to agree to whatever deal you can make. You can't expect much. Hopefully they're all gone.
Burleson can play first and Gorman third to try and build value for these players. Noot is simply slumping. If not we dodged a bullet by not extending him.

Regarding Nootbaar, or any young player, the question always is - at what price are you extending him? Notwithstanding his current week-long slump, there is certainly a price point at which I would have wanted to have Nootbaar extended right now. However, if it would have been too expensive to do so, there is also a possibility that I wouldn't want to have extended him.

You should be looking to extend any young player who you think is a 450+ PA per year starting position player (i.e., at least the LH hitting side of a platoon who starts vs. RHPs), a SP, or your closer - IF you can get them extended at the right price.

[2ninr]

I'm only looking to move guys who I don't see as part of the Cardinals longer term 3-year or 5-year plan - Arenado, Helsley, Mikolas, Gray, Fedde, Contreras, Matz, Maton, etc.

If you are a team like the Cardinals who should still be focused on rebuilding and you have young guys (Gorman, Burleson, Nootbaar, etc.) who you think are expendable, you should not expect anyone else to value them either. Young, cost controlled players are exactly what the Cardinals need, so if you are trading away young, cost controlled players it must be because they have very little value.

All of the first group will be gone no matter what in 2026 except Arenado, Gray, and Contreras. I don't read trade values anymore but I'm guessing Arenado is a negative. So you have to pay and he has to agree for someone to take him. Gray and Contreras just have to agree to whatever deal you can make. You can't expect much. Hopefully they're all gone.
Burleson can play first and Gorman third to try and build value for these players. Noot is simply slumping. If not we dodged a bullet by not extending him.

Regarding Nootbaar, or any young player, the question always is - at what price are you extending him? Notwithstanding his current week-long slump, there is certainly a price point at which I would have wanted to have Nootbaar extended right now. However, if it would have been too expensive to do so, there is also a possibility that I wouldn't want to have extended him.

You should be looking to extend any young player who you think is a 450+ PA per year starting position player (i.e., at least the LH hitting side of a platoon who starts vs. RHPs), a SP, or your closer - IF you can get them extended at the right price.

2023 is the only year Noot has been that. He will this year. I let 2025 play out and see what it looks like.

[mattmitchl44]

I'm only looking to move guys who I don't see as part of the Cardinals longer term 3-year or 5-year plan - Arenado, Helsley, Mikolas, Gray, Fedde, Contreras, Matz, Maton, etc.

If you are a team like the Cardinals who should still be focused on rebuilding and you have young guys (Gorman, Burleson, Nootbaar, etc.) who you think are expendable, you should not expect anyone else to value them either. Young, cost controlled players are exactly what the Cardinals need, so if you are trading away young, cost controlled players it must be because they have very little value.

All of the first group will be gone no matter what in 2026 except Arenado, Gray, and Contreras. I don't read trade values anymore but I'm guessing Arenado is a negative. So you have to pay and he has to agree for someone to take him. Gray and Contreras just have to agree to whatever deal you can make. You can't expect much. Hopefully they're all gone.
Burleson can play first and Gorman third to try and build value for these players. Noot is simply slumping. If not we dodged a bullet by not extending him.

Regarding Nootbaar, or any young player, the question always is - at what price are you extending him? Notwithstanding his current week-long slump, there is certainly a price point at which I would have wanted to have Nootbaar extended right now. However, if it would have been too expensive to do so, there is also a possibility that I wouldn't want to have extended him.

You should be looking to extend any young player who you think is a 450+ PA per year starting position player (i.e., at least the LH hitting side of a platoon who starts vs. RHPs), a SP, or your closer - IF you can get them extended at the right price.

2023 is the only year Noot has been that. He will this year. I let 2025 play out and see what it looks like.

Some people like to preach waiting. But if they are someone who you are going to want to extend, waiting just makes them (much) more expensive. By the time you are "sure," you've probably doubled or tripled the price (considering it will have to be for a higher AAV and likely more years in order get them to sign, if they are willing to sign at all).

The "risk/reward" balance - if you can get a deal done cheaply early - likely weighs in favor of getting a deal done as soon as you can. You'll have some small misses because you committed early, but your big hits will almost certainly outweigh those, if you are doing it right.

[IndCard75]

Arenado is the player we really need to trade to improve the future team. The $40 million he will make the next 2 years could be spent on a player that could bring a lot more value for the money.
Mikolas Fedde Matz aren’t going to get a big return but yes they will be FA so trade them for what you can get.
Helsley has been inconsistent this season hurting his potential return.
Nootbar-I wouldn’t mind trading him to open LF for Donovan so Gorman can play 2B full time. By the end of 2026 JW will probably be our 2B anyway.

[Barking Lion]

The Cards need to consider the price on Fedde. He's only 32 and could still be helping the team in three years. In trade, I want a player who will be a starter in the 3-5 year time frame. The team needs to find out what his price is going to be.

I agree with everything Matt said about signing young players early. There is one caveat. You don't want to sign a guy like Nootbaar to a huge contract because, although he showed starter/contributor caliber performance, he never showed, IMO, star performance. He showed more of an Edman potential than Edmonds. he would need to be signed under such consideration.

[2ninr]

I'm only looking to move guys who I don't see as part of the Cardinals longer term 3-year or 5-year plan - Arenado, Helsley, Mikolas, Gray, Fedde, Contreras, Matz, Maton, etc.

If you are a team like the Cardinals who should still be focused on rebuilding and you have young guys (Gorman, Burleson, Nootbaar, etc.) who you think are expendable, you should not expect anyone else to value them either. Young, cost controlled players are exactly what the Cardinals need, so if you are trading away young, cost controlled players it must be because they have very little value.

All of the first group will be gone no matter what in 2026 except Arenado, Gray, and Contreras. I don't read trade values anymore but I'm guessing Arenado is a negative. So you have to pay and he has to agree for someone to take him. Gray and Contreras just have to agree to whatever deal you can make. You can't expect much. Hopefully they're all gone.
Burleson can play first and Gorman third to try and build value for these players. Noot is simply slumping. If not we dodged a bullet by not extending him.

Regarding Nootbaar, or any young player, the question always is - at what price are you extending him? Notwithstanding his current week-long slump, there is certainly a price point at which I would have wanted to have Nootbaar extended right now. However, if it would have been too expensive to do so, there is also a possibility that I wouldn't want to have extended him.

You should be looking to extend any young player who you think is a 450+ PA per year starting position player (i.e., at least the LH hitting side of a platoon who starts vs. RHPs), a SP, or your closer - IF you can get them extended at the right price.

2023 is the only year Noot has been that. He will this year. I let 2025 play out and see what it looks like.

Some people like to preach waiting. But if they are someone who you are going to want to extend, waiting just makes them (much) more expensive. By the time you are "sure," you've probably doubled or tripled the price (considering it will have to be for a higher AAV and likely more years in order get them to sign, if they are willing to sign at all).

The "risk/reward" balance - if you can get a deal done cheaply early - likely weighs in favor of getting a deal done as soon as you can. You'll have some small misses because you committed early, but your big hits will almost certainly outweigh those, if you are doing it right.

I'm not saying you are wrong. In fact, let's say you are right. Than you Don't extend Noot. He's been an injury prone player, and this year isn't over. After a full work load over < than a half season he is slumping.

[Stlcardsblues]

Just late night thoughts on tradable players for the 2025 deadline, and, what we might get for them. There are 7 tradable players that I feel the Cardinals could afford to part with that other teams would want enough to get us a decent return. The first, although I wouldn't have said it a couple months ago, is Nootbaar. We have Donovan to cover LF until Baez is up in a couple years.

Gorman and Burleson are also expendable, IMO, neither with a real full time defensive position, so, only bench replacements necessary. Then for pitching, I see the obvious Mikolas, Fedde and Matz, although Matz might be harder to part with if the Cardinals are contenders come the deadline. I left out Arenado, Contreras and Gray as trade possibilities because of prior trade clause refusals. I would trade Maton, if the return was good enough. But, we would need a closer if we trade Helsley, and, although Granillo may be a
future closer, he's too fresh to the show.

That leaves a possible line up of LF Donovan, SS Winn, DH Herrera, 1B Contreras, RF Walker, 3B Arenado, 2B Saggese, C Pages, and CF Scott. One bench possibility is C Pozo, IF/OF Barrero, OF Koperniak, and IF Prieto. Not the worst line up, I actually kind of l Iike it, although it's a bit right handed heavy, for sure.

The staff would be Gray, Pallante, Liberatore, McGreevy and Mathews(unless someone else is pitching better than Mathews). The bullpen might be Maton, Romero, Leahy, Granillo, King, O'Brien, Svanson and Weiss. Nothing to write home about, but, serviceable with Maton at the helm.

We probably wouldn't move all seven of my suggested players, but, it does show we could afford to move some MLB talent for some prospects. Although, quality of return they might fetch is debatable, we should be able to improve our farm, and field a competitive team for the stretch run. Maybe even trade for some international draft money, or, competitive balance picks if traded before the draft, as some have suggested.

I'm not really punting the season, as much as moving obsolete and redundant parts. And even though I think this team still has a chance at the playoffs in 2025, I am honestly extremely excited for next year under Bloom(and hopefully a new manager like Molina or Pujols, or both). By the end of the season we should see Wetherholt and Crooks, with Bernal, Davis, Baez and Church close behind. I think we should seek these trades no matter the teams record, as the Cardinals need to make room for Walker fulltime, Donovan needs to be in LF for the best defensive/offensive production out of the position, and Saggese is the next best option at 2B, at least until Wetherholt arrives. And the bench is definitely a bench, no controversy about shared playing time.

The starting staff will be young, but, could be good. The bullpen is weaker, but, maybe we get a ready BP arm in return, along with, hopefully, a few decent prospects. This would be the best gift Mo could give to Bloom, and, would set Bloom up with a fairly clean slate, other than the no trade contracts. If you made it this far, you like rambling baseball musings as much as me. Go Cardinals!

This years trade deadline should be used to trade all of the pending free agents with expiring contracts who have value for prospects.

Then in the off season let Bloom determine who is part of the core and who is expendable to fill holes.

I know it’s difficult for people to see this is not a contending team, but they need to stay on building up the young talent.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Just late night thoughts on tradable players for the 2025 deadline, and, what we might get for them. There are 7 tradable players that I feel the Cardinals could afford to part with that other teams would want enough to get us a decent return. The first, although I wouldn't have said it a couple months ago, is Nootbaar. We have Donovan to cover LF until Baez is up in a couple years.

Gorman and Burleson are also expendable, IMO, neither with a real full time defensive position, so, only bench replacements necessary. Then for pitching, I see the obvious Mikolas, Fedde and Matz, although Matz might be harder to part with if the Cardinals are contenders come the deadline. I left out Arenado, Contreras and Gray as trade possibilities because of prior trade clause refusals. I would trade Maton, if the return was good enough. But, we would need a closer if we trade Helsley, and, although Granillo may be a
future closer, he's too fresh to the show.

That leaves a possible line up of LF Donovan, SS Winn, DH Herrera, 1B Contreras, RF Walker, 3B Arenado, 2B Saggese, C Pages, and CF Scott. One bench possibility is C Pozo, IF/OF Barrero, OF Koperniak, and IF Prieto. Not the worst line up, I actually kind of l Iike it, although it's a bit right handed heavy, for sure.

The staff would be Gray, Pallante, Liberatore, McGreevy and Mathews(unless someone else is pitching better than Mathews). The bullpen might be Maton, Romero, Leahy, Granillo, King, O'Brien, Svanson and Weiss. Nothing to write home about, but, serviceable with Maton at the helm.

We probably wouldn't move all seven of my suggested players, but, it does show we could afford to move some MLB talent for some prospects. Although, quality of return they might fetch is debatable, we should be able to improve our farm, and field a competitive team for the stretch run. Maybe even trade for some international draft money, or, competitive balance picks if traded before the draft, as some have suggested.

I'm not really punting the season, as much as moving obsolete and redundant parts. And even though I think this team still has a chance at the playoffs in 2025, I am honestly extremely excited for next year under Bloom(and hopefully a new manager like Molina or Pujols, or both). By the end of the season we should see Wetherholt and Crooks, with Bernal, Davis, Baez and Church close behind. I think we should seek these trades no matter the teams record, as the Cardinals need to make room for Walker fulltime, Donovan needs to be in LF for the best defensive/offensive production out of the position, and Saggese is the next best option at 2B, at least until Wetherholt arrives. And the bench is definitely a bench, no controversy about shared playing time.

The starting staff will be young, but, could be good. The bullpen is weaker, but, maybe we get a ready BP arm in return, along with, hopefully, a few decent prospects. This would be the best gift Mo could give to Bloom, and, would set Bloom up with a fairly clean slate, other than the no trade contracts. If you made it this far, you like rambling baseball musings as much as me. Go Cardinals!

This years trade deadline should be used to trade all of the pending free agents with expiring contracts who have value for prospects.

Then in the off season let Bloom determine who is part of the core and who is expendable to fill holes.

I know it’s difficult for people to see this is not a contending team, but they need to stay on building up the young talent.

I agree.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

The following ASSUMES the Cards are not contenders at the break and are actually in the rebuild cycle.

Players to trade:

Fedde - if he can win a few more he might bring back a middling prospect now. If he finds some of his 2024 magic a better than that prospect.

Helsley - a guy they should have traded last December and would have brought back a top 100 prospect. Now, well if depends if he gets hot again still a prospect that slots into the STL top 10.

Gray - if he waives NTC. Would return a solid prospect.

Maton - also a middling prospect

Arenado - he isn't as bad as some here think nor is his contract that bad since it drops to $16 then $15 mil the last two years. He still plays decent 3B and drives in runs. A contender with a black hole at 3B would give a middling prospect.

Contreras - harder to deal now he is a 1B and signed into 2028. If they can get any prospect they should do it to clear the slate.

Donovan - OK hear me out. THIS is the guy who might return a top 10 MLB prospect. And honestly this team probably won't contend until 2027 earliest which is his last year of control. I also believe it would be selling high as this is probably the best he will ever be. But yeah I keep him unless it's a seriously tasty prospect.

Burleson - believe it or not he is hitting well especially vs RHP. He has no position he plays well and is also gone in 2029 plus he isn't likely to make you weep when he becomes an allstar. Whichis unlikely. And right now to a team needing a guy who can hit RHP and play a little OF he is valuable.

Gorman - No. Just no. His upside is too high to throw away. He may never become that thumper we wanted but if he does it better be in STL.

Nootbaar - no. Again why? Yeah he is slumping so you'd be selling low. And if he starts hitting again why deal him?

If they pull most of this off it does mean the second half they are contending for last place with the Pirates. But it also means in the next 3 years a solid flow of potential solid players.

[Bob Kunush]

I agree that we should have traded Helsley in the off season due to his chances of a regression or injury. But I disagree he would have brought back as big a prospect as some on here think. Several writers indicated that the initial offerings for 1 year of his services were pretty low because other teams were concerned about the same things with Helsley and the team decided it was worth risking it in 2025 to see if he pitched well enough that a team might be more desperate at the deadline.

Based on what the Brewers got for Devin Williams, who had a longer track record, I think its not realistic to think that Helsley would have brought back as much as some people here think. If he would have I'm sure Bloom would have pushed hard to have Mo pull the trigger.

[Ace Hollister]

I have zero confidence in Noot ever producing what is expected from him

I disagree that there is a major drop off in defense from Noot to Burleson

Just my opinion.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

I agree that we should have traded Helsley in the off season due to his chances of a regression or injury. But I disagree he would have brought back as big a prospect as some on here think. Several writers indicated that the initial offerings for 1 year of his services were pretty low because other teams were concerned about the same things with Helsley and the team decided it was worth risking it in 2025 to see if he pitched well enough that a team might be more desperate at the deadline.

Based on what the Brewers got for Devin Williams, who had a longer track record, I think its not realistic to think that Helsley would have brought back as much as some people here think. If he would have I'm sure Bloom would have pushed hard to have Mo pull the trigger.

All that might be true. They may have tried to deal him and didn't like the return. But comparing him to the Williams deal is a mistake. Had MIL shopped Williams for prospects alone it would have been a juicy prospect. They wanted Cortes to be in their rotation which was needy and they probably wanted the cash that came along with the deal. The prospect wasn't the centerpiece. So it isn't as weak a return as some think. Now, the fact Cortes has SUCKED as a Brewer is just how it goes sometimes.

We'll never know if the offers for Helsley were weak. We do know if we follow blogs and online chats with industry insiders that many people with some contacts in the business were surprised he wasn't traded and think it was a mistake to keep him.

Hopefully, Helsley catches fire the next 5 weeks and some needy playoff team makes us an offer we can't refuse.

[ilcubuffs]

"I agree that we should have traded Helsley in the off season due to his chances of a regression or injury. But I disagree he would have brought back as big a prospect as some on here think." From B Kunush

From Andy Van Slyke.
“Hopefully our closer wants the ball, which is not always the case,” Van Slyke said. “There’s plenty of times he doesn’t want the ball. How many times have you seen him pitch three days in a row? Or two games in a row?”

................. “Sometimes you’ve got to know the win’s more important than maybe not feeling good. Think about it. If you play five years, 10 years, 15 years in the big leagues — I know plenty of players that don’t want to go play because they don’t feel good. But the gamers, they’re the ones who go out and play whether they feel good or not, or grab the ball whether they feel good or not.

“Here’s the thing — I’m not so sure he understands the difference between being hurt and being sore.”

Zero chance BK and AVS are the only two competent MLB commenters. Why would a team pay top $$$ or give up prospects for Helsley when you know he may or may not show up in critical game because it is an odd number day or he has a boo boo?

Same could be said of Gorman - potential to do what??? Already know about his SO's, swat a fly defense, and ho hum attitude. Mikolas, Fredde, Burleson, Nootbar, etc all gone.

Can't wait for competent FO and manager, McGreevy, Koperniak, Crooks, Saggese, etc to come to STL and bring new competitiveness to Cardinal baseball.