David Fincher's Brilliant "Se7en": How Did This Film Ever Get Made?

[Clark Kimble]

Just wait 'til you read how they gathered the focus group for the initial, disastrous screening, and which two superstars declined their offered lead roles: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-a ... -interview

[FrankTheTank]

Oh, boy. They really wanted Al Pacino, and Al Pacino said no. I got involved after that. And I think the first person I spoke with was Gene Hackman. I went to meet Gene Hackman, who I was entirely intimidated by because, for my money, he might be the greatest motion picture actor of all time — just the kind of effortlessness, well-traveled humanness was something I really wanted. And I met with Gene and he said, “It sounds like there’s a lot of night shoots.” I think we had a 40-minute conversation. And I said, “Yeah, there is.” He said, “Count me out.” So that was that.

Can you imagine? Al Pacino & Gene Hackman? Ha ha ha wow...that just wouldn't have worked.

[seattleblue]

Gene Hackman and Al Pacino were in Scarecrow (1973) and it slipped past me but is on the Criterion Channel Hackman collective this month. I plan to watch it pretty soon. I would not have liked to see them in Se7en.

I have it ranked #8 neo noir of the 1990s and #63 all time.

Most of noir is about pride (eg, Sunset Boulevard), greed (eg, Third Man/Chinatown), lust (eg, Double Indemnity), wrath (eg, Act of Violence). Envy of the better life is a major throughline, especially in the heist game (eg, The Asphalt Jungle). There aren't as many sloth noirs or gluttony noirs.

[bud white]

As I read the article, I was somewhat surprised that Kevin Spacey's John Doe wasn't mentioned. I honestly can't see anyone else in that role. He was creepy, intelligent, smarmy and highly manipulative. His recounting of the long list of murders and his description of each is just chilling. He is soulless.

Turns out, he didn't get the part originally. Fincher called him back after firing the actor who had been cast.

https://www.joblo.com/seven-spacey/

[Pink Freud]

As I read the article, I was somewhat surprised that Kevin Spacey's John Doe wasn't mentioned. I honestly can't see anyone else in that role. He was creepy, intelligent, smarmy and highly manipulative. His recounting of the long list of murders and his description of each is just chilling. He is soulless.

Turns out, he didn't get the part originally. Fincher called him back after firing the actor who had been cast.

https://www.joblo.com/seven-spacey/

Great points! Fincher, upon first reading the script, said once Spacey's John Doe turned himself in, covered in incriminating blood --- oooopsie, spoiler? ---, you'd think the story was over and you'd fade to black, but there were still 18 pages of script remaining. THEN, of course, came the real denouement , of Doe manipulating Pitt's young cop into completing the seven deadly sins trope. How prescient of Fincher's agent, hearing of his disinterest, to say "Just get to the end."

I still laugh at Pitt's brash young, naive detective, consulting the library and comparing the grisly crimes to the "Marquis de Shar-day".

What a movie, perfect for a dark and stormy night. Now I really have to see it again....after my wife goes to sleep.

[seattleblue]

I am thinking about the shift in the lighting/setting at the end.

The first part of the film is template noir but the final scenes couldn't be in more bright, sunny, open spaces. It's not even really golden hour which is neo noir's answer to chiaroscuro. Assuming all lighting is deliberate in conjunction with mood, tone, the sunny scenes play out as "false safe" for the audience.

The funny thing about the John Doe character is he's thinking he's a prophet for proving water is wet, and "raising awareness" of its wetness. I mean if you're an adult in this world who doesn't understand of course we are doomed, for these reasons, you are an inexperienced adult. This is like someone thinking by him speaking up about the obvious someone will "do something" to make it all different. He's sacrificing himself (and other human beings) to do an art project that has very little insight or talent involved, just the narcissism of thinking he stumbled upon the doom of man himself.