Respect for Mozeliak

[Adam2]

I would have more respect for John Mozeliak and his legacy if he were to leave the season with 80 wins and a top 5 farm system, than if we win 86 games and get bounced from the playoffs as a wildcard team. It would show a level of team over ego than I currently give him credit for.

How about making the playoffs AND having a top 5 farm system. That’s what I’m hoping for.

agreed Ms. Mozeliak. tell J boy hello

Cute.

I thought so

[hullie]

Mo's inability to judge talent and compete for top free agents caused the organization to fall from perennial playoff participants to this reset. The man sucked at attracting top players. He went from losing out on fa to not even trying to acquire them.

I believe this inability led to overspending on mediocre to bad free agents. Guys like Leake, Cecil, Miller. This caused BDW to tighten the wallet. Had Mo been better at handing out contracts, then maybe DeWitt has interest in going for a guy like Harper.

But it's too late to turn back. I don't see BDW jr or BDW 3 being interested in signing a difference maker anytime soon.

If MO could spend whatever he wants without getting approval from the people writing the checks then he wouldn’t lose out on FA. How long til you turn on Bloom?

[Talkin' Baseball]

I would have more respect for John Mozeliak and his legacy if he were to leave the season with 80 wins and a top 5 farm system, than if we win 86 games and get bounced from the playoffs as a wildcard team. It would show a level of team over ego than I currently give him credit for.

Agree with the overall gist of your post, but getting the farm system all the way to top 5 seems ambitious: I just don't see enough tradable asset value (factoring in NTCs and stated preferences) on the MLB roster to garner that kind of return in additional minor league talent (unless, of course, they entertain trading some of the more attractive cost-controlled players on the roster, but that seems unlikely). But if Mozeliak can find a reasonable return for Helsley/Fedde/Matz etc. before the deadline, I'd be OK with that outcome and credit him for it.

You're right about the farm system. It would be hard to change the image of Mozeliak I have formed over the years. A top 5 farm system would be a good accomplishment. Mo has some good accomplishments, but most of those were a long time ago. Our farm system has 2 top 100 prospects (Wetherholt and Mathews). I assume at the end of the year Rainiel Rodriquez will make the lists. Other internal candidates would be Roby, Bernal, and maybe even Baez. Our new 5th overall pick will help the system rankings. If we were to trade one or more of the cost-controlled players in addition to the expiring contracts- it could happen. This is not impossible and would be a tremendous accomplishment. He could attach himself for years to the success to come, and rightfully so.

[NYCardsFan]

I would have more respect for John Mozeliak and his legacy if he were to leave the season with 80 wins and a top 5 farm system, than if we win 86 games and get bounced from the playoffs as a wildcard team. It would show a level of team over ego than I currently give him credit for.

Agree with the overall gist of your post, but getting the farm system all the way to top 5 seems ambitious: I just don't see enough tradable asset value (factoring in NTCs and stated preferences) on the MLB roster to garner that kind of return in additional minor league talent (unless, of course, they entertain trading some of the more attractive cost-controlled players on the roster, but that seems unlikely). But if Mozeliak can find a reasonable return for Helsley/Fedde/Matz etc. before the deadline, I'd be OK with that outcome and credit him for it.

You're right about the farm system. It would be hard to change the image of Mozeliak I have formed over the years. A top 5 farm system would be a good accomplishment. Mo has some good accomplishments, but most of those were a long time ago. Our farm system has 2 top 100 prospects (Wetherholt and Mathews). I assume at the end of the year Rainiel Rodriquez will make the lists. Other internal candidates would be Roby, Bernal, and maybe even Baez. Our new 5th overall pick will help the system rankings. If we were to trade one or more of the cost-controlled players in addition to the expiring contracts- it could happen. This is not impossible and would be a tremendous accomplishment. He could attach himself for years to the success to come, and rightfully so.

I guess my only thought is if we're talking about trading one or more of the cost-controlled assets, I'd probably prefer waiting until the baton is formally passed to Bloom--makes more sense from an alignment and accountability perspective, and is consistent with the basic premise for hiring him in the first place: he has a reputation for being a good evaluator and developer of young talent.

[Futuregm2]

I would have more respect for John Mozeliak and his legacy if he were to leave the season with 80 wins and a top 5 farm system, than if we win 86 games and get bounced from the playoffs as a wildcard team. It would show a level of team over ego than I currently give him credit for.

Agree with the overall gist of your post, but getting the farm system all the way to top 5 seems ambitious: I just don't see enough tradable asset value (factoring in NTCs and stated preferences) on the MLB roster to garner that kind of return in additional minor league talent (unless, of course, they entertain trading some of the more attractive cost-controlled players on the roster, but that seems unlikely). But if Mozeliak can find a reasonable return for Helsley/Fedde/Matz etc. before the deadline, I'd be OK with that outcome and credit him for it.

Roby was a top 100 prospect a year ago and has had a great start to this year. Does he re-emerge in a top 100 list?
Rodriguez has had a big year so far, is he a top 100 prospect?
Baez has been phenomenal and has taken a big step forward, is he a top 100 prospect?
Bernal has been great this year in AA as well, does he become a top 100 prospect?

Meanwhile you still have Wetherholt, Mathews, and possibly Hence in the top 100 talk as well. Plus a top 5 pick.

How would potentially 6-8 top 100 prospects look for a system ranking?

[Talkin' Baseball]

I would have more respect for John Mozeliak and his legacy if he were to leave the season with 80 wins and a top 5 farm system, than if we win 86 games and get bounced from the playoffs as a wildcard team. It would show a level of team over ego than I currently give him credit for.

Agree with the overall gist of your post, but getting the farm system all the way to top 5 seems ambitious: I just don't see enough tradable asset value (factoring in NTCs and stated preferences) on the MLB roster to garner that kind of return in additional minor league talent (unless, of course, they entertain trading some of the more attractive cost-controlled players on the roster, but that seems unlikely). But if Mozeliak can find a reasonable return for Helsley/Fedde/Matz etc. before the deadline, I'd be OK with that outcome and credit him for it.

Roby was a top 100 prospect a year ago and has had a great start to this year. Does he re-emerge in a top 100 list?
Rodriguez has had a big year so far, is he a top 100 prospect?
Baez has been phenomenal and has taken a big step forward, is he a top 100 prospect?
Bernal has been great this year in AA as well, does he become a top 100 prospect?

Meanwhile you still have Wetherholt, Mathews, and possibly Hence in the top 100 talk as well. Plus a top 5 pick.

How would potentially 6-8 top 100 prospects look for a system ranking?

The Seattle Mariners currently have the top-rated farm system. They have 9 top 100 prospects! They have graduated one and will probably graduate one more. They may trade some as well. Who knows, maybe to us? I would be tickled to have a top 5 system. The Cardinals don't have to completely bust up the team to do it.

[ScotchMIrish]

The Rasmus for Jackson trade got us a world series championship. He deserves credit for that. The last few years of taking on inflated salaries for prospects is no longer viable due to TV deal collapsing.

Whether it was his choice or DeWitt's he is moving on. I wish him the best.

[OldRed]

We have no idea how his hands were tied this off season, but this team needed another quality starter and help in the pen.

[Talkin' Baseball]

We have no idea how his hands were tied this off season, but this team needed another quality starter and help in the pen.

That has nothing to do with this thread.

[Banner29]

The Rasmus for Jackson trade got us a world series championship. He deserves credit for that. The last few years of taking on inflated salaries for prospects is no longer viable due to TV deal collapsing.

Whether it was his choice or DeWitt's he is moving on. I wish him the best.

He wouldn’t have made that trade if Tony Larussa wasn’t basically demanding it because he was so sick of Colby and his daddy. And Tony had the credibility to make that happen. Which is why we no longer saw managers with experience/credibility

[OldRed]

We have no idea how his hands were tied this off season, but this team needed another quality starter and help in the pen.

That has nothing to do with this thread.

Of course it does if we don't know he was limited in doing his job.

[Talkin' Baseball]

We have no idea how his hands were tied this off season, but this team needed another quality starter and help in the pen.

That has nothing to do with this thread.

Of course it does if we don't know he was limited in doing his job.

We didn't form our respect, or ideas about his legacy based on whether he added another starting pitcher, or not.

[BrockFloodMaris]

I'd have more respect for him if he bowed out right now rather than prolonging the inevitable

Yep. I agree. The sooner Mo leaves, the sooner Bloom can go to work.

[JuanAgosto]

Mo's inability to judge talent and compete for top free agents caused the organization to fall from perennial playoff participants to this reset. The man sucked at attracting top players. He went from losing out on fa to not even trying to acquire them.

I believe this inability led to overspending on mediocre to bad free agents. Guys like Leake, Cecil, Miller. This caused BDW to tighten the wallet. Had Mo been better at handing out contracts, then maybe DeWitt has interest in going for a guy like Harper.

But it's too late to turn back. I don't see BDW jr or BDW 3 being interested in signing a difference maker anytime soon.

If MO could spend whatever he wants without getting approval from the people writing the checks then he wouldn’t lose out on FA. How long til you turn on Bloom?

He had enough freedom to re-sign Holliday and offer big deals to Pujols and Heyward. The freedom wasn't always a problem. Signing guys like Leake, Fowler, and Cecil to ridiculous contracts was the problem.

[JuanAgosto]

Mo's inability to judge talent and compete for top free agents caused the organization to fall from perennial playoff participants to this reset. The man sucked at attracting top players. He went from losing out on fa to not even trying to acquire them.

I believe this inability led to overspending on mediocre to bad free agents. Guys like Leake, Cecil, Miller. This caused BDW to tighten the wallet. Had Mo been better at handing out contracts, then maybe DeWitt has interest in going for a guy like Harper.

But it's too late to turn back. I don't see BDW jr or BDW 3 being interested in signing a difference maker anytime soon.

All true, but I'm talking about anything he could do in the time he has left that would be a final impression to help, or hurt, his legacy.

It's too late now. BDW finally neutered him with the reset.

[ilcubuffs]

"Just a few months until the door hits Dewitt’s boner garage."

Thanks to Banner 29. After watching the Cards-Blue Jays S & M version of MLB needed a laugh. That garage has been used extensively, probably has elect garage door opener.

Again thanks for the laughs.