Melville wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 23:06 pm
Not a coincidence.
Also caught the May 31 shut out.
Gray went 7 scoreless in that one.
And 6.1 scoreless tonight.
Ppl talk [shirt] about PP, but the pitching has been cruising since Herrera’s injury in April
Herrera is playing where he needs to
DH
100%!
He certainly does not need to be playing catcher yet on certain days Oli forces him in there.
Long term I hope he can play outfield.
Maybe he ends up being a DH but every Cardinals fan should hope and pray he can become an effective catcher because his bat would make him elite at the position and enable the Cardinals to put another big bat at DH.
Oli should absolutely keep playing him at catcher to give him a chance to stick there. If he doesn’t, he doesn’t but this is one of those situations they need to use this season to determine.
Edit: I will add that this is also why every Cardinals fan should hope Gorman develops into a good hitter and is able to stay at 2B. His bat at the position would make him elite there. That’s becoming a taller ask at this point but that would be ideal.
Melville wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 23:06 pm
Not a coincidence.
Also caught the May 31 shut out.
Gray went 7 scoreless in that one.
And 6.1 scoreless tonight.
Ppl talk [shirt] about PP, but the pitching has been cruising since Herrera’s injury in April
Herrera is playing where he needs to
DH
100%!
He certainly does not need to be playing catcher yet on certain days Oli forces him in there.
Long term I hope he can play outfield.
Not disagreeing, but WHY? What's wrong with him at DH?
Speaking for myself...maybe I'm too much of a luddite...but I don't like the idea of someone who's a DH and only a DH. I'd be okay with Ivan taking most of the DH at-bats, but I'd like him to be able to passably play a defensive position, too.
I like the idea of being able to use the DH spot for guys who might've tweaked something and need a few games to not be in the field. Or for a young guy who's JUST been called up and hasn't had the time to prepare defensively for that night's game. For example, if Weatherholt was called up in an emergency TODAY...well...he won't have much time to get situated and get to know the infield. So why not DH him, you know?
I realize that the above type situations aren't going to be more than, say, 30 games absolute max. If your DH is an absolute hitter, though, do you want him just limited to DH? Plus, he already plays a demanding position--though not well. Why couldn't he be able to moonlight in the outfield corners or at first base? A little flexibility never hurt anyone.
Anywho...love Pages. Not a great hitter, but certainly seems to be a clutch hitter. And seems up to the task defensively.
I'd bring up guys like Edgar Martinez, Paul Molitor, and Big Papi. But here's the thing...maybe he could play a passable left field. But would he provide speed, athleticism, and throwing you'd like to see from a left fielder? I highly doubt it.
Herrera was born to DH...maybe first base when Contreras is finished.
And you're not wrong about those guys, especially Ortiz, but here's the other side of that coin. Molitor played at least 100 games defensively 8 times, played 98 defensive games once, and in '81, Molitor would've had a shot at 100 games if not for the strike. Edgar Martinez also had a few seasons where he played 100+ games in the field. Might have had a shot at another season if not for the strike in '94. Edgar also had a lot of freak injuries in his career, so taking him off the field and minimizing that risk by putting him at DH. Granted he certainly wasn't known for defense, but I feel like the injuries more than anything limited him to DH.
I mean, I've seen Herrera move on the bases, he moves fine. Certainly fine enough to think that he could handle a corner OF/1B spot well enough to not hinder you. I'm not saying he's going to win gold gloves, but I think he has the tools to be put out there without worrying too much. As for his arm, I think it would be fine just about anywhere else that he'd logically play. But nowadays, for a catcher, you need to have an absolute howitzer with the bigger bases and how pitchers don't seem to hold baserunners much anymore. If you're a catcher with an average arm, you need to have an incredible pop time (Herrera doesn't) or again...have that Molina like howitzer to be able to hose a guy down from your knees. But if you put Herrera's arm in left field especially? I don't see there being any problem. He couldn't have a worse arm than Jon Jay or Matt Holliday had.
Melville wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 23:06 pm
Not a coincidence.
Also caught the May 31 shut out.
Gray went 7 scoreless in that one.
And 6.1 scoreless tonight.
Ppl talk [shirt] about PP, but the pitching has been cruising since Herrera’s injury in April
Herrera is playing where he needs to
DH
100%!
He certainly does not need to be playing catcher yet on certain days Oli forces him in there.
Long term I hope he can play outfield.
Not disagreeing, but WHY? What's wrong with him at DH?
It’s probably my old style thinking about DH. He is a young guy and talented. I think he could provide more than bat or would like for him to have chance. I tend to pigeon hole the DH as the guy with big bat no defense. I just suspect he has more to add.
Melville wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 23:06 pm
Not a coincidence.
Also caught the May 31 shut out.
Gray went 7 scoreless in that one.
And 6.1 scoreless tonight.
Ppl talk [shirt] about PP, but the pitching has been cruising since Herrera’s injury in April
Herrera is playing where he needs to
DH
100%!
He certainly does not need to be playing catcher yet on certain days Oli forces him in there.
Long term I hope he can play outfield.
Maybe he ends up being a DH but every Cardinals fan should hope and pray he can become an effective catcher because his bat would make him elite at the position and enable the Cardinals to put another big bat at DH.
Oli should absolutely keep playing him at catcher to give him a chance to stick there. If he doesn’t, he doesn’t but this is one of those situations they need to use this season to determine.
Edit: I will add that this is also why every Cardinals fan should hope Gorman develops into a good hitter and is able to stay at 2B. His bat at the position would make him elite there. That’s becoming a taller ask at this point but that would be ideal.
Just not impressed with him as catcher. Pitchers appear to have better game when he is not behind the plate imo. Also can’t argue with his arm and ability to throw to second not the best.
Melville wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 23:06 pm
Not a coincidence.
Also caught the May 31 shut out.
Gray went 7 scoreless in that one.
And 6.1 scoreless tonight.
Ppl talk [shirt] about PP, but the pitching has been cruising since Herrera’s injury in April
Herrera is playing where he needs to
DH
100%!
He certainly does not need to be playing catcher yet on certain days Oli forces him in there.
Long term I hope he can play outfield.
Not disagreeing, but WHY? What's wrong with him at DH?
Speaking for myself...maybe I'm too much of a luddite...but I don't like the idea of someone who's a DH and only a DH. I'd be okay with Ivan taking most of the DH at-bats, but I'd like him to be able to passably play a defensive position, too.
I like the idea of being able to use the DH spot for guys who might've tweaked something and need a few games to not be in the field. Or for a young guy who's JUST been called up and hasn't had the time to prepare defensively for that night's game. For example, if Weatherholt was called up in an emergency TODAY...well...he won't have much time to get situated and get to know the infield. So why not DH him, you know?
I realize that the above type situations aren't going to be more than, say, 30 games absolute max. If your DH is an absolute hitter, though, do you want him just limited to DH? Plus, he already plays a demanding position--though not well. Why couldn't he be able to moonlight in the outfield corners or at first base? A little flexibility never hurt anyone.
Anywho...love Pages. Not a great hitter, but certainly seems to be a clutch hitter. And seems up to the task defensively.
I'd bring up guys like Edgar Martinez, Paul Molitor, and Big Papi. But here's the thing...maybe he could play a passable left field. But would he provide speed, athleticism, and throwing you'd like to see from a left fielder? I highly doubt it.
Herrera was born to DH...maybe first base when Contreras is finished.
And you're not wrong about those guys, especially Ortiz, but here's the other side of that coin. Molitor played at least 100 games defensively 8 times, played 98 defensive games once, and in '81, Molitor would've had a shot at 100 games if not for the strike. Edgar Martinez also had a few seasons where he played 100+ games in the field. Might have had a shot at another season if not for the strike in '94. Edgar also had a lot of freak injuries in his career, so taking him off the field and minimizing that risk by putting him at DH. Granted he certainly wasn't known for defense, but I feel like the injuries more than anything limited him to DH.
I mean, I've seen Herrera move on the bases, he moves fine. Certainly fine enough to think that he could handle a corner OF/1B spot well enough to not hinder you. I'm not saying he's going to win gold gloves, but I think he has the tools to be put out there without worrying too much. As for his arm, I think it would be fine just about anywhere else that he'd logically play. But nowadays, for a catcher, you need to have an absolute howitzer with the bigger bases and how pitchers don't seem to hold baserunners much anymore. If you're a catcher with an average arm, you need to have an incredible pop time (Herrera doesn't) or again...have that Molina like howitzer to be able to hose a guy down from your knees. But if you put Herrera's arm in left field especially? I don't see there being any problem. He couldn't have a worse arm than Jon Jay or Matt Holliday had.
Respectfully, you're missing my point (or I'm doing a poor job of articulating)...WHY? Why force Herrera into an OF position. Since Pujols retired the Cards have struggled mightily to find DH production. We finally have it...why mess with it?
I'd also point out in Molitor's last 9 seasons he played NO games in the field and was a DH in almost 1,200 games.
Moving forward, what's wrong with Noot in LF, Scott in CF, and Walker in RF with Herrera serving as the DH? Doesn't this make more sense than trying to force Herrera into an OF position?
Melville wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 23:06 pm
Not a coincidence.
Also caught the May 31 shut out.
Gray went 7 scoreless in that one.
And 6.1 scoreless tonight.
Ppl talk [shirt] about PP, but the pitching has been cruising since Herrera’s injury in April
Herrera is playing where he needs to
DH
100%!
He certainly does not need to be playing catcher yet on certain days Oli forces him in there.
Long term I hope he can play outfield.
Maybe he ends up being a DH but every Cardinals fan should hope and pray he can become an effective catcher because his bat would make him elite at the position and enable the Cardinals to put another big bat at DH.
Oli should absolutely keep playing him at catcher to give him a chance to stick there. If he doesn’t, he doesn’t but this is one of those situations they need to use this season to determine.
Edit: I will add that this is also why every Cardinals fan should hope Gorman develops into a good hitter and is able to stay at 2B. His bat at the position would make him elite there. That’s becoming a taller ask at this point but that would be ideal.
His arm is his arm. Teams will run wild on Herrera if you leave him at catcher.
Melville wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 23:06 pm
Not a coincidence.
Also caught the May 31 shut out.
Gray went 7 scoreless in that one.
And 6.1 scoreless tonight.
This kid seems like the real deal.
I've been a big fan for a while.
The pitchers are loving him and
that will go a long way for anyone that
thinks he'll be supplanted for someone in
the minors.
Pages is underrated.
Melville wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 23:06 pm
Not a coincidence.
Also caught the May 31 shut out.
Gray went 7 scoreless in that one.
And 6.1 scoreless tonight.
Ppl talk [shirt] about PP, but the pitching has been cruising since Herrera’s injury in April
Herrera is playing where he needs to
DH
100%!
He certainly does not need to be playing catcher yet on certain days Oli forces him in there.
Long term I hope he can play outfield.
Not disagreeing, but WHY? What's wrong with him at DH?
Melville wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 23:06 pm
Not a coincidence.
Also caught the May 31 shut out.
Gray went 7 scoreless in that one.
And 6.1 scoreless tonight.
Ppl talk [shirt] about PP, but the pitching has been cruising since Herrera’s injury in April
Herrera is playing where he needs to
DH
100%!
He certainly does not need to be playing catcher yet on certain days Oli forces him in there.
Long term I hope he can play outfield.
Not disagreeing, but WHY? What's wrong with him at DH?
Speaking for myself...maybe I'm too much of a luddite...but I don't like the idea of someone who's a DH and only a DH. I'd be okay with Ivan taking most of the DH at-bats, but I'd like him to be able to passably play a defensive position, too.
I like the idea of being able to use the DH spot for guys who might've tweaked something and need a few games to not be in the field. Or for a young guy who's JUST been called up and hasn't had the time to prepare defensively for that night's game. For example, if Weatherholt was called up in an emergency TODAY...well...he won't have much time to get situated and get to know the infield. So why not DH him, you know?
I realize that the above type situations aren't going to be more than, say, 30 games absolute max. If your DH is an absolute hitter, though, do you want him just limited to DH? Plus, he already plays a demanding position--though not well. Why couldn't he be able to moonlight in the outfield corners or at first base? A little flexibility never hurt anyone.
Anywho...love Pages. Not a great hitter, but certainly seems to be a clutch hitter. And seems up to the task defensively.
I'd bring up guys like Edgar Martinez, Paul Molitor, and Big Papi. But here's the thing...maybe he could play a passable left field. But would he provide speed, athleticism, and throwing you'd like to see from a left fielder? I highly doubt it.
Herrera was born to DH...maybe first base when Contreras is finished.
And you're not wrong about those guys, especially Ortiz, but here's the other side of that coin. Molitor played at least 100 games defensively 8 times, played 98 defensive games once, and in '81, Molitor would've had a shot at 100 games if not for the strike. Edgar Martinez also had a few seasons where he played 100+ games in the field. Might have had a shot at another season if not for the strike in '94. Edgar also had a lot of freak injuries in his career, so taking him off the field and minimizing that risk by putting him at DH. Granted he certainly wasn't known for defense, but I feel like the injuries more than anything limited him to DH.
I mean, I've seen Herrera move on the bases, he moves fine. Certainly fine enough to think that he could handle a corner OF/1B spot well enough to not hinder you. I'm not saying he's going to win gold gloves, but I think he has the tools to be put out there without worrying too much. As for his arm, I think it would be fine just about anywhere else that he'd logically play. But nowadays, for a catcher, you need to have an absolute howitzer with the bigger bases and how pitchers don't seem to hold baserunners much anymore. If you're a catcher with an average arm, you need to have an incredible pop time (Herrera doesn't) or again...have that Molina like howitzer to be able to hose a guy down from your knees. But if you put Herrera's arm in left field especially? I don't see there being any problem. He couldn't have a worse arm than Jon Jay or Matt Holliday had.
Respectfully, you're missing my point (or I'm doing a poor job of articulating)...WHY? Why force Herrera into an OF position. Since Pujols retired the Cards have struggled mightily to find DH production. We finally have it...why mess with it?
I'd also point out in Molitor's last 9 seasons he played NO games in the field and was a DH in almost 1,200 games.
Moving forward, what's wrong with Noot in LF, Scott in CF, and Walker in RF with Herrera serving as the DH? Doesn't this make more sense than trying to force Herrera into an OF position?
Paul Molitor was in his age 34 season when he started to consistently play more games as a DH than as a fielder. I couldn't tell you what age Herrera is right now, but I know he's a sight away from 34.
As to your question, I don't think there's anything wrong with that alignment in the outfield. But here's my follow up question. What if one of those guys falls off a cliff? Tears an ACL? Or, probably more likely, what happens if we're in trade talks for a bonafide MOTO bat or the kind of SP that you can hang a rotation on, and they ask for someone like Walker or Noot? Or what if Walker never becomes what we all hope and pray he becomes?
I don't look at it as "forcing" Herrera into an outfield position. But I do look at it as a way to get his bat into the line-up every single day.
Look, if Herrera was built and coordinated like David Ortiz, I'd be 100% with you in saying that we should park him at DH. But to my mind, if Herrera can show some defensive value AND hit like he hits...does that not make him a more valuable piece? For both our team and potentially other teams?
