Utah looking for a young top 6 winger for their 4th OA

[bluetunehead]

You have to also consider the cap space gained so its likely not just Kyrou out and nothing in for 2 or 3 years.

And what are you doing with that new found space?

Well I don't know who would be able to sign in STL or who is available but it is still a significant asset that should be considered.

My point was you’d spend what you’d save just trying to replace the production, and like you said, there’s no guarantee that guy or guys are even available

You've presented good points here, and along with MN's well worded posts just above, it really paints a strong picture for why this will likely and probably should not happen.

My only argument is more looking long-term and tying into previous discussions - you've got a glut of wingers coming up that are projected in the top-9. The only current available spot is 2/3C. As soon as next season someone will need to be moved.

Could we move Buch to Utah for #4OA? Please, if so, let it be. However, I think we would be out-bit and/or Utah asks for Kyrou instead.

My thought is you get max return for Kyrou now while you can move him (which actually could be for more than just the #4OA), and avoid the issue of having to move a Bolduc/Neighbours/Snugg/Stenberg/Pekarcik/Kaskimaki/Stancl/etc down the road.

The main risk is if the lightning caught in the bottle at the end of this past season was more than just that and this team is poised for serious SC contention this upcoming season, which you and MN pointed out very well, but that I am not sure is actually the case. We need more info on the locker room dynamics/etc to know for sure, and ultimately Army does know and will likely make the right decision here (assuming Utah even wants Kyrou/Buch/etc).

Zero chance they're taking Buch for #4. Lordy I'd take that deal and run, but yeah, Utah won't.

I think if there is a possibility of Kyrou for #4, it really just comes down to who is available at #4 and what the Blues think of them. Hagens? Frondell? Desnoyers? O'Brien? The first two off the board will be Misa and Schaefer in some order. After that there isn't a ton of consensus. Who are the Blues most sold on as a legit Top 6 center? That probably counts as much as anything. This is the sort of deal that only happens if the Blues know who they are getting. If the Blues think most of these guys end up as wingers in the NHL it's much less appealing of a move.

[skilles]

You have to also consider the cap space gained so its likely not just Kyrou out and nothing in for 2 or 3 years.

And what are you doing with that new found space?

Well I don't know who would be able to sign in STL or who is available but it is still a significant asset that should be considered.

My point was you’d spend what you’d save just trying to replace the production, and like you said, there’s no guarantee that guy or guys are even available

You've presented good points here, and along with MN's well worded posts just above, it really paints a strong picture for why this will likely and probably should not happen.

My only argument is more looking long-term and tying into previous discussions - you've got a glut of wingers coming up that are projected in the top-9. The only current available spot is 2/3C. As soon as next season someone will need to be moved.

Could we move Buch to Utah for #4OA? Please, if so, let it be. However, I think we would be out-bit and/or Utah asks for Kyrou instead.

My thought is you get max return for Kyrou now while you can move him (which actually could be for more than just the #4OA), and avoid the issue of having to move a Bolduc/Neighbours/Snugg/Stenberg/Pekarcik/Kaskimaki/Stancl/etc down the road.

The main risk is if the lightning caught in the bottle at the end of this past season was more than just that and this team is poised for serious SC contention this upcoming season, which you and MN pointed out very well, but that I am not sure is actually the case. We need more info on the locker room dynamics/etc to know for sure, and ultimately Army does know and will likely make the right decision here (assuming Utah even wants Kyrou/Buch/etc).

Zero chance they're taking Buch for #4. Lordy I'd take that deal and run, but yeah, Utah won't.

I think if there is a possibility of Kyrou for #4, it really just comes down to who is available at #4 and what the Blues think of them. Hagens? Frondell? Desnoyers? O'Brien? The first two off the board will be Misa and Schaefer in some order. After that there isn't a ton of consensus. Who are the Blues most sold on as a legit Top 6 center? That probably counts as much as anything. This is the sort of deal that only happens if the Blues know who they are getting. If the Blues think most of these guys end up as wingers in the NHL it's much less appealing of a move.

That could be the case but just if there are only 3 players in the draft the Blues would trade Kyrou for.

[2forDiving]

If the move this year was to trade Kyrou for a top 5 draft pick, then I can’t imagine they are offer sheeting Broberg and Holloway and trading for Fowler. I can’t fathom there is a trade of Kyrou that doesn’t involve a known, NHL commodity coming back in return. Heck, Dvorsky is a top 10 pick and he may still be a half to full season away from being a viable 3rd line NHL center. There is absolutely no guarantee that anyone chosen 3-5 in this draft is a legit 2C in the 2027-28 season. Heck, I can argue that a supposed generational talent like Bedard is nothing more than a 2C now and that’s with a lot of warts at that.

[zamadoo]

Zero chance they're taking Buch for #4. Lordy I'd take that deal and run, but yeah, Utah won't.

I think if there is a possibility of Kyrou for #4, it really just comes down to who is available at #4 and what the Blues think of them. Hagens? Frondell? Desnoyers? O'Brien? The first two off the board will be Misa and Schaefer in some order. After that there isn't a ton of consensus. Who are the Blues most sold on as a legit Top 6 center? That probably counts as much as anything. This is the sort of deal that only happens if the Blues know who they are getting. If the Blues think most of these guys end up as wingers in the NHL it's much less appealing of a move.

Yeah, I was thinking more like Buch+ but still just can't see it happening all things considered.

The rest of what you said I 100% agree with as well.

If the move this year was to trade Kyrou for a top 5 draft pick, then I can’t imagine they are offer sheeting Broberg and Holloway and trading for Fowler. I can’t fathom there is a trade of Kyrou that doesn’t involve a known, NHL commodity coming back in return. Heck, Dvorsky is a top 10 pick and he may still be a half to full season away from being a viable 3rd line NHL center. There is absolutely no guarantee that anyone chosen 3-5 in this draft is a legit 2C in the 2027-28 season. Heck, I can argue that a supposed generational talent like Bedard is nothing more than a 2C now and that’s with a lot of warts at that.

What if we took Schmaltz back? 1 year left on his deal and can play center.

[bluetunehead]

If the move this year was to trade Kyrou for a top 5 draft pick, then I can’t imagine they are offer sheeting Broberg and Holloway and trading for Fowler. I can’t fathom there is a trade of Kyrou that doesn’t involve a known, NHL commodity coming back in return. Heck, Dvorsky is a top 10 pick and he may still be a half to full season away from being a viable 3rd line NHL center. There is absolutely no guarantee that anyone chosen 3-5 in this draft is a legit 2C in the 2027-28 season. Heck, I can argue that a supposed generational talent like Bedard is nothing more than a 2C now and that’s with a lot of warts at that.

That's all valid but most Top 5 picks don't get traded, so it's an interesting scenario to consider, that's all. A guy like Kyrou plays a very deep position for the Blues, and the #4 this year would give them some strong options at one of their weaker spots. Does it potentially make the team weaker immediately? Yes, but the Blues have a solid stock of young wing prospects who are already in the NHL or close to earning a shot who might be able to replace Kyrou. Our center depth longterm is questionable. It could look very bad if, for instance, Dvorsky tops out as a 3C.

[STL fan in MN]

If the move this year was to trade Kyrou for a top 5 draft pick, then I can’t imagine they are offer sheeting Broberg and Holloway and trading for Fowler. I can’t fathom there is a trade of Kyrou that doesn’t involve a known, NHL commodity coming back in return. Heck, Dvorsky is a top 10 pick and he may still be a half to full season away from being a viable 3rd line NHL center. There is absolutely no guarantee that anyone chosen 3-5 in this draft is a legit 2C in the 2027-28 season. Heck, I can argue that a supposed generational talent like Bedard is nothing more than a 2C now and that’s with a lot of warts at that.

That's all valid but most Top 5 picks don't get traded, so it's an interesting scenario to consider, that's all. A guy like Kyrou plays a very deep position for the Blues, and the #4 this year would give them some strong options at one of their weaker spots. Does it potentially make the team weaker immediately? Yes, but the Blues have a solid stock of young wing prospects who are already in the NHL or close to earning a shot who might be able to replace Kyrou. Our center depth longterm is questionable. It could look very bad if, for instance, Dvorsky tops out as a 3C.

We’re very deep organizationally at LW. Kyrou plays RW. Kyrou and Snuggerud are the only 2 right-shooting RWs we have.

[Harry York 37]

Kyrou turned my stomach many times in the Winnipeg series, but you do have to get a player who can help us now, not in three years. We are not that far away from going deep.
Maybe one more semester of Professor Holloway’s school of playing smart and manly hockey will matriculate his dazed and confused behind into a real playoff asset.
He scores playoff goals by finding open spots. He only has two assists in 28 goddanged playoff games because you have to fight off crowds to make plays.

[SameOldBlues]

Kyrou turned my stomach many times in the Winnipeg series, but you do have to get a player who can help us now, not in three years. We are not that far away from going deep.
Maybe one more semester of Professor Holloway’s school of playing smart and manly hockey will matriculate his dazed and confused behind into a real playoff asset.
He scores playoff goals by finding open spots. He only has two assists in 28 goddanged playoff games because you have to fight off crowds to make plays.

MATRICULATE!

One of the best words ever invented! Especially watchin Hank Stram say it while yellin on the sidelines

[Red7]

This is what happens when you legalize pot and allow meth to run rampant in your state. What? Is Army going to set Bill Armstrong with a hooker who gets him drunk and takes incriminating pictures? You wouldn’t get a Top 10 pick for Kyrou, much less a Top 5. In fact, the league would suspect foul play and void the deal. These are deals the Canadiens made in the 70’s, stealing team’s first round drafts. Anyone remember a #1 for Dave Gardner?

[TheJackBurton]

This is what happens when you legalize pot and allow meth to run rampant in your state. What? Is Army going to set Bill Armstrong with a hooker who gets him drunk and takes incriminating pictures? You wouldn’t get a Top 10 pick for Kyrou, much less a Top 5. In fact, the league would suspect foul play and void the deal. These are deals the Canadiens made in the 70’s, stealing team’s first round drafts. Anyone remember a #1 for Dave Gardner?

ok so just for arguments sake, let's say the Blues and the Mammoth pull off this trade. Under what rule would the NHL have any legitimate right to void that trade?

[Bubble4427]

If the move this year was to trade Kyrou for a top 5 draft pick, then I can’t imagine they are offer sheeting Broberg and Holloway and trading for Fowler. I can’t fathom there is a trade of Kyrou that doesn’t involve a known, NHL commodity coming back in return. Heck, Dvorsky is a top 10 pick and he may still be a half to full season away from being a viable 3rd line NHL center. There is absolutely no guarantee that anyone chosen 3-5 in this draft is a legit 2C in the 2027-28 season. Heck, I can argue that a supposed generational talent like Bedard is nothing more than a 2C now and that’s with a lot of warts at that.

That's all valid but most Top 5 picks don't get traded, so it's an interesting scenario to consider, that's all. A guy like Kyrou plays a very deep position for the Blues, and the #4 this year would give them some strong options at one of their weaker spots. Does it potentially make the team weaker immediately? Yes, but the Blues have a solid stock of young wing prospects who are already in the NHL or close to earning a shot who might be able to replace Kyrou. Our center depth longterm is questionable. It could look very bad if, for instance, Dvorsky tops out as a 3C.

I'm not a huge Kyrou fan, but he has MUCH more market value than people think. He is signed to a very reasonable long term deal for a player of his caliber. In a couple years, that contract will be a bargain. It would take more than the 4th overall pick to get Kyrou....and it's not even close.
You only trade Kyrou if you have a proven NHLer coming back in return.

[TheJackBurton]

If the move this year was to trade Kyrou for a top 5 draft pick, then I can’t imagine they are offer sheeting Broberg and Holloway and trading for Fowler. I can’t fathom there is a trade of Kyrou that doesn’t involve a known, NHL commodity coming back in return. Heck, Dvorsky is a top 10 pick and he may still be a half to full season away from being a viable 3rd line NHL center. There is absolutely no guarantee that anyone chosen 3-5 in this draft is a legit 2C in the 2027-28 season. Heck, I can argue that a supposed generational talent like Bedard is nothing more than a 2C now and that’s with a lot of warts at that.

That's all valid but most Top 5 picks don't get traded, so it's an interesting scenario to consider, that's all. A guy like Kyrou plays a very deep position for the Blues, and the #4 this year would give them some strong options at one of their weaker spots. Does it potentially make the team weaker immediately? Yes, but the Blues have a solid stock of young wing prospects who are already in the NHL or close to earning a shot who might be able to replace Kyrou. Our center depth longterm is questionable. It could look very bad if, for instance, Dvorsky tops out as a 3C.

I'm not a huge Kyrou fan, but he has MUCH more market value than people think. He is signed to a very reasonable long term deal for a player of his caliber. In a couple years, that contract will be a bargain. It would take more than the 4th overall pick to get Kyrou....and it's not even close.
You only trade Kyrou if you have a proven NHLer coming back in return.

That's kind of the thing, he hasn't even reached his peak value yet. His peak value will be when the normal 20 goal scoring winger is making 7.5-9 million. That's when he will be at max value, and he'll be under a full NTC. That's the minimum in doing business in the NHL anymore though if you want someone long term.

[Army's Mom]

If the move this year was to trade Kyrou for a top 5 draft pick, then I can’t imagine they are offer sheeting Broberg and Holloway and trading for Fowler. I can’t fathom there is a trade of Kyrou that doesn’t involve a known, NHL commodity coming back in return. Heck, Dvorsky is a top 10 pick and he may still be a half to full season away from being a viable 3rd line NHL center. There is absolutely no guarantee that anyone chosen 3-5 in this draft is a legit 2C in the 2027-28 season. Heck, I can argue that a supposed generational talent like Bedard is nothing more than a 2C now and that’s with a lot of warts at that.

That's all valid but most Top 5 picks don't get traded, so it's an interesting scenario to consider, that's all. A guy like Kyrou plays a very deep position for the Blues, and the #4 this year would give them some strong options at one of their weaker spots. Does it potentially make the team weaker immediately? Yes, but the Blues have a solid stock of young wing prospects who are already in the NHL or close to earning a shot who might be able to replace Kyrou. Our center depth longterm is questionable. It could look very bad if, for instance, Dvorsky tops out as a 3C.

I'm not a huge Kyrou fan, but he has MUCH more market value than people think. He is signed to a very reasonable long term deal for a player of his caliber. In a couple years, that contract will be a bargain. It would take more than the 4th overall pick to get Kyrou....and it's not even close.
You only trade Kyrou if you have a proven NHLer coming back in return.

That's kind of the thing, he hasn't even reached his peak value yet. His peak value will be when the normal 20 goal scoring winger is making 7.5-9 million. That's when he will be at max value, and he'll be under a full NTC. That's the minimum in doing business in the NHL anymore though if you want someone long term.

He's already a bargain. People just can't shake the mental image they formed two years ago when he first signed the extension. He looked overpaid then, and so that label stuck. But he's not overpaid for what he is now. And he'll be an absolute bargain in another year, if he's even remotely as productive.

IF you have to trade Kyrou, you better get back an NHL ready #2C.

[STL fan in MN]

I’d likely only consider trading Kyrou if Kyrou isn’t the best player in the deal. So something like Kyrou + another asset for a player better than Kyrou. I’m not trading him for pieces.

[TheJackBurton]

If the move this year was to trade Kyrou for a top 5 draft pick, then I can’t imagine they are offer sheeting Broberg and Holloway and trading for Fowler. I can’t fathom there is a trade of Kyrou that doesn’t involve a known, NHL commodity coming back in return. Heck, Dvorsky is a top 10 pick and he may still be a half to full season away from being a viable 3rd line NHL center. There is absolutely no guarantee that anyone chosen 3-5 in this draft is a legit 2C in the 2027-28 season. Heck, I can argue that a supposed generational talent like Bedard is nothing more than a 2C now and that’s with a lot of warts at that.

That's all valid but most Top 5 picks don't get traded, so it's an interesting scenario to consider, that's all. A guy like Kyrou plays a very deep position for the Blues, and the #4 this year would give them some strong options at one of their weaker spots. Does it potentially make the team weaker immediately? Yes, but the Blues have a solid stock of young wing prospects who are already in the NHL or close to earning a shot who might be able to replace Kyrou. Our center depth longterm is questionable. It could look very bad if, for instance, Dvorsky tops out as a 3C.

I'm not a huge Kyrou fan, but he has MUCH more market value than people think. He is signed to a very reasonable long term deal for a player of his caliber. In a couple years, that contract will be a bargain. It would take more than the 4th overall pick to get Kyrou....and it's not even close.
You only trade Kyrou if you have a proven NHLer coming back in return.

That's kind of the thing, he hasn't even reached his peak value yet. His peak value will be when the normal 20 goal scoring winger is making 7.5-9 million. That's when he will be at max value, and he'll be under a full NTC. That's the minimum in doing business in the NHL anymore though if you want someone long term.

He's already a bargain. People just can't shake the mental image they formed two years ago when he first signed the extension. He looked overpaid then, and so that label stuck. But he's not overpaid for what he is now. And he'll be an absolute bargain in another year, if he's even remotely as productive.

IF you have to trade Kyrou, you better get back an NHL ready #2C.

That has always been my contention. At this point in the Blues makeover I'm not trading a 30 goal scorer, .9 ppg producing right winger who is locked in to what will be a very team friendly contract for another 6 years, unless it's for an NHL player of equal age who is a better all around player.

There's about 3-4 players who might be available who I'd move him for and that's about it. If he wears the Blue note for the next 6 seasons and keeps producing like this, I have no issues with it whatsoever.

[seattleblue]

I’d likely only consider trading Kyrou if Kyrou isn’t the best player in the deal. So something like Kyrou + another asset for a player better than Kyrou. I’m not trading him for pieces.

It would have to be a deal that brings back a cornerstone, I fully agree.

I think his max value is right now, the next 24 days. Once he gets his NTC in place and gets "more control than the owner" the way Krug was handed by Armstrong then he loses value even with the cap going up, By the time the cap goes up to make that deal more of a "bargain" he'll be 30 and then nobody will be saying he's at max value. His deal will become more of a "bargain" assuming he doesn't regress in his play but he'll always be a winger.