60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Welcome to STLtoday.com's forum for fans of the St. Louis Cardinals.

Moderators: STLtoday Forum Moderators, Cards Talk Moderators

sikeston bulldog2
Forum User
Posts: 11863
Joined: 11 Aug 2023 16:20 pm

60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by sikeston bulldog2 »

Good morning.

No longer a small sample size. 3/8 in, 38ish percent. And Scouty said no assessment could happen till 60 games in. Here we are.

Pitching- solid rotation. About 3-4 runs per game.
Defense- one of leagues best.
Offense. Middle of road. Can’t carry pitching. Not without Walker and Herrera.
Pen. Need 7/8 inning guy other than Matz. For competition purposes only.

Great position based on a perceived reset. Allows us to watch the young development and see winning baseball.

I look at the standings. We are a top 15 team in baseball. At this stage of reset. In a year or two, I see a power.

The alternative is a reset with losing baseball. I’ll take the former.

Enjoy.
BrummerStealsHome
Forum User
Posts: 2131
Joined: 23 May 2024 14:12 pm

Re: 60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by BrummerStealsHome »

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: 05 Jun 2025 10:05 am Good morning.

No longer a small sample size. 3/8 in, 38ish percent. And Scouty said no assessment could happen till 60 games in. Here we are.

Pitching- solid rotation. About 3-4 runs per game.
Defense- one of leagues best.
Offense. Middle of road. Can’t carry pitching. Not without Walker and Herrera.
Pen. Need 7/8 inning guy other than Matz. For competition purposes only.

Great position based on a perceived reset. Allows us to watch the young development and see winning baseball.

I look at the standings. We are a top 15 team in baseball. At this stage of reset. In a year or two, I see a power.

The alternative is a reset with losing baseball. I’ll take the former.

Enjoy.
I think the defensive prowess the team has displayed is real and will continue. I think our offense is middle of the road to slightly above middle-of-the-road and will regress towards the mean. Our pitching is inconsistent and will change either by pitchers settling into the rhythm of the season or pitchers having their roles adjusted or getting replaced by someone else. The outcomes won't be much different overall.

This will still be a fun team to watch, frustrating at times but showing enough quality and enough promise to keep this fan engaged. I'll stick with my earlier prediction of an 86 win season. And unlike most years when a wildcard is a disappointment, sneaking in to the playoffs playins would be a good achievement.
sikeston bulldog2
Forum User
Posts: 11863
Joined: 11 Aug 2023 16:20 pm

Re: 60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by sikeston bulldog2 »

BrummerStealsHome wrote: 05 Jun 2025 10:19 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: 05 Jun 2025 10:05 am Good morning.

No longer a small sample size. 3/8 in, 38ish percent. And Scouty said no assessment could happen till 60 games in. Here we are.

Pitching- solid rotation. About 3-4 runs per game.
Defense- one of leagues best.
Offense. Middle of road. Can’t carry pitching. Not without Walker and Herrera.
Pen. Need 7/8 inning guy other than Matz. For competition purposes only.

Great position based on a perceived reset. Allows us to watch the young development and see winning baseball.

I look at the standings. We are a top 15 team in baseball. At this stage of reset. In a year or two, I see a power.

The alternative is a reset with losing baseball. I’ll take the former.

Enjoy.
I think the defensive prowess the team has displayed is real and will continue. I think our offense is middle of the road to slightly above middle-of-the-road and will regress towards the mean. Our pitching is inconsistent and will change either by pitchers settling into the rhythm of the season or pitchers having their roles adjusted or getting replaced by someone else. The outcomes won't be much different overall.

This will still be a fun team to watch, frustrating at times but showing enough quality and enough promise to keep this fan engaged. I'll stick with my earlier prediction of an 86 win season. And unlike most years when a wildcard is a disappointment, sneaking in to the playoffs playins would be a good achievement.
Good write. I went 81-81. I think that’s a cat bird position.
rbirules
Forum User
Posts: 455
Joined: 23 May 2024 12:58 pm

Re: 60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by rbirules »

Hitting: 106 wRC+ is 10th best in MLB (6% above average).
Defense: 12th in DRS, 1st in OAA
Base running: 21st in BsR
Position players: tied for 7th in fWAR with Boston

Rotation: 13th in fWAR
Bullpen: 16th in fWAR
Pitchers: tied for 13th in fWAR with Boston
sikeston bulldog2
Forum User
Posts: 11863
Joined: 11 Aug 2023 16:20 pm

Re: 60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by sikeston bulldog2 »

rbirules wrote: 05 Jun 2025 10:56 am Hitting: 106 wRC+ is 10th best in MLB (6% above average).
Defense: 12th in DRS, 1st in OAA
Base running: 21st in BsR
Position players: tied for 7th in fWAR with Boston

Rotation: 13th in fWAR
Bullpen: 16th in fWAR
Pitchers: tied for 13th in fWAR with Boston
That’s about 12th best team in baseball stats. This stretch we are currently on will be interesting.
rockondlouie
Forum User
Posts: 9533
Joined: 23 May 2024 12:41 pm

Re: 60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by rockondlouie »

*Pitching- solid rotation. About 3-4 runs per game
3.80 Starter ERA 15th in MLB

*Defense- one of leagues best
#1 in OAA

*Offense. Middle of road. Can’t carry pitching. Not without Walker and Herrera
9th in Runs
3rd in BA
10th in OPS
11th SLG% (But sorely lacking HR power ranking 24th)

*Pen. Need 7/8 inning guy other than Matz. For competition purposes only.
4.12 ERA #20th in MLB (inflated by relievers who had no business being in St. Louis)

BTW
Maton has become the go-to 8th inning guy and he's been VG (since 4/25: 11 G/1.74 ERA).
sikeston bulldog2
Forum User
Posts: 11863
Joined: 11 Aug 2023 16:20 pm

Re: 60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by sikeston bulldog2 »

rockondlouie wrote: 05 Jun 2025 11:07 am *Pitching- solid rotation. About 3-4 runs per game
3.80 Starter ERA 15th in MLB

*Defense- one of leagues best
#1 in OAA

*Offense. Middle of road. Can’t carry pitching. Not without Walker and Herrera
9th in Runs
3rd in BA
10th in OPS
11th SLG% (But sorely lacking HR power ranking 24th)

*Pen. Need 7/8 inning guy other than Matz. For competition purposes only.
4.12 ERA #20th in MLB (inflated by relievers who had no business being in St. Louis)

BTW
Maton has become the go-to 8th inning guy and he's been VG (since 4/25: 11 G/1.74 ERA).
Question. If Helsley was to get moved, does Maton get the closer role.
Futuregm2
Forum User
Posts: 6672
Joined: 23 May 2024 13:18 pm

Re: 60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by Futuregm2 »

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: 05 Jun 2025 11:09 am
rockondlouie wrote: 05 Jun 2025 11:07 am *Pitching- solid rotation. About 3-4 runs per game
3.80 Starter ERA 15th in MLB

*Defense- one of leagues best
#1 in OAA

*Offense. Middle of road. Can’t carry pitching. Not without Walker and Herrera
9th in Runs
3rd in BA
10th in OPS
11th SLG% (But sorely lacking HR power ranking 24th)

*Pen. Need 7/8 inning guy other than Matz. For competition purposes only.
4.12 ERA #20th in MLB (inflated by relievers who had no business being in St. Louis)

BTW
Maton has become the go-to 8th inning guy and he's been VG (since 4/25: 11 G/1.74 ERA).
Question. If Helsley was to get moved, does Maton get the closer role.
From the current roster, probably. But if they are moving Helsley I wouldn’t be surprised if they’d look at dealing Maton, too. He’s a FA after this year as well.
rockondlouie
Forum User
Posts: 9533
Joined: 23 May 2024 12:41 pm

Re: 60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by rockondlouie »

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: 05 Jun 2025 11:09 am
rockondlouie wrote: 05 Jun 2025 11:07 am *Pitching- solid rotation. About 3-4 runs per game
3.80 Starter ERA 15th in MLB

*Defense- one of leagues best
#1 in OAA

*Offense. Middle of road. Can’t carry pitching. Not without Walker and Herrera
9th in Runs
3rd in BA
10th in OPS
11th SLG% (But sorely lacking HR power ranking 24th)

*Pen. Need 7/8 inning guy other than Matz. For competition purposes only.
4.12 ERA #20th in MLB (inflated by relievers who had no business being in St. Louis)

BTW
Maton has become the go-to 8th inning guy and he's been VG (since 4/25: 11 G/1.74 ERA).
Question. If Helsley was to get moved, does Maton get the closer role.
More than likely Oli would go w/a Closer by Committee since he'd be left w/no true closer.
sikeston bulldog2
Forum User
Posts: 11863
Joined: 11 Aug 2023 16:20 pm

Re: 60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by sikeston bulldog2 »

Allows me to reemphasis. Middle road offense can’t carry the staff.
sikeston bulldog2
Forum User
Posts: 11863
Joined: 11 Aug 2023 16:20 pm

Re: 60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by sikeston bulldog2 »

61 Games. Seven over. Come from behind DH opener win.
hmoss859
Forum User
Posts: 180
Joined: 24 Mar 2025 23:30 pm

Re: 60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by hmoss859 »

Margin of error is small for this team.
AZ_Cardsfan
Forum User
Posts: 696
Joined: 26 May 2024 00:49 am

Re: 60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by AZ_Cardsfan »

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: 05 Jun 2025 10:05 am Good morning.

No longer a small sample size. 3/8 in, 38ish percent. And Scouty said no assessment could happen till 60 games in. Here we are.

Pitching- solid rotation. About 3-4 runs per game.
Defense- one of leagues best.
Offense. Middle of road. Can’t carry pitching. Not without Walker and Herrera.
Pen. Need 7/8 inning guy other than Matz. For competition purposes only.

Great position based on a perceived reset. Allows us to watch the young development and see winning baseball.

I look at the standings. We are a top 15 team in baseball. At this stage of reset. In a year or two, I see a power.

The alternative is a reset with losing baseball. I’ll take the former.

Enjoy.
I like a lot of that. Where we part is the "seeing a power in a year or two". Reason is to be a power a team needs a true elite hitter and something resembling an ace. Cards have neither and I'm not sure there is one in the system on the way. Would love to be wrong about that but that's my take.
Horseradish
Forum User
Posts: 162
Joined: 23 May 2024 14:26 pm

Re: 60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by Horseradish »

hmoss859 wrote: 05 Jun 2025 17:05 pm Margin of error is small for this team.
Very true, but at least they’re showing some fight compared to the last few seasons, already a few comebacks and late-inning runs.
Detroit Louie
Forum User
Posts: 52
Joined: 27 May 2024 09:32 am

Re: 60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by Detroit Louie »

This has been an exciting team to watch develop this season, culminating in the May run. This is a rough stretch, and they should come back down somewhat.

I would be happy to see them sellers at the deadline this year. So if they are several games out of the last wildcard spot in mid-July, that would make selling acceptable. We need to trade for some new high level prospects coming in or at least some young guys with high ceilings. Hoping Bloom will be able to identify some diamonds in the rough.
Youboughtit
Forum User
Posts: 3585
Joined: 06 Oct 2020 15:45 pm

Re: 60 games in. No longer a small sample.

Post by Youboughtit »

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: 05 Jun 2025 10:05 am Good morning.

No longer a small sample size. 3/8 in, 38ish percent. And Scouty said no assessment could happen till 60 games in. Here we are.

Pitching- solid rotation. About 3-4 runs per game.
Defense- one of leagues best.
Offense. Middle of road. Can’t carry pitching. Not without Walker and Herrera.
Pen. Need 7/8 inning guy other than Matz. For competition purposes only.

Great position based on a perceived reset. Allows us to watch the young development and see winning baseball.

I look at the standings. We are a top 15 team in baseball. At this stage of reset. In a year or two, I see a power.

The alternative is a reset with losing baseball. I’ll take the former.

Enjoy.
Where do they get the superstar power bat and TOR ace to reach the next level? Spending is the only answer
Post Reply